ortho competitive?

[Discovery01]

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I've heard a lot that ortho is the most competitive dental residency to get into? How would you compare it with getting into one of the ROADE (rad, opth, anesth, derm, Emergency Med) residencies in medicine? Generally speaking, do you think it's more realistic to aim to be a dermatologist or orthodontist?

 

[SuperTrooper]

Generally speaking, do you think it's more realistic to aim to be a dermatologist or orthodontist?

Are you serious?

If so, generally speaking, you're an idiot.

 

[Discovery01]

I don't think that your comment is necessary. I simply asked a question. If you can't answer it, skip the thread.

 

[checkamundo]

Are you serious?

If so, generally speaking, you're an idiot.

👍

 

[checkamundo]

First of all, are you more interested in medicine or dentistry? Secondly, even if for some reason you are considering both, are you planning on picking one of the two b/c of which specialty is easier. Picking dentistry just b/c you like ortho or picking medicine b/c you like dermatology is not the way to go, especially when you run the risk of not gettin either specialty.

 

[Trookie]

Are you serious?

If so, generally speaking, you're an idiot.

Awesome.

 

[dentalman]

Situation one: you are trained as a dentist and specialize in ortho. Two: trained as a physician and specialize in derm.

This really is an unanswerable question. And there is no reason to answer it.

Next question...

 

[aphistis]

I've heard a lot that ortho is the most competitive dental residency to get into? How would you compare it with getting into one of the ROADE (rad, opth, anesth, derm, Emergency Med) residencies in medicine? Generally speaking, do you think it's more realistic to aim to be a dermatologist or orthodontist?

I think it's more realistic to determine which profession you want to join and then find your niche within it, rather than trying to figure out which career will make you the most amount of money for the least amount of work. 👎

 

[Geezer99]

I've heard a lot that ortho is the most competitive dental residency to get into? How would you compare it with getting into one of the ROADE (rad, opth, anesth, derm, Emergency Med) residencies in medicine? Generally speaking, do you think it's more realistic to aim to be a dermatologist or orthodontist?

I think the two are very similar goals. Both will require you to be in the top 5% of your class, have awesome board scores, and generally get really lucky when it comes time to match.
Both will give you the same general workday as well....Tennis until 9, Patients until 12. Golf until 3, then more patients until 5-6. Your bread and butter patient in both specialties will be an awkward looking teenager. And the majority of work is delegated to assistants. I say go ahead and choose based on demand in your desired market, and how much money you'll make, because the two jobs are basically the same.

I think a dermatologist probably makes more money....orthodontists can make as much, but they would have to work hard...probably open on Saturday and other crap like that.

 

[toofache32]

I would go to dental school because it's easier. You just have to learn to step on that thingy and pack putty into teeth.

 

[SuperTrooper]

I don't think that your comment is necessary. I simply asked a question. If you can't answer it, skip the thread.

Hey man, sorry I called you an idiot. It was a visceral reaction to your post.

Let me give you a proper response:
1) It's impossible to compare getting into derm with getting into ortho. But yes, they're both competetive.
2) How do you know you're interested in ortho and derm? You're not even in dental school or medical school yet. You know nothing; i'm in second year dental school and i still know nothing about ortho.
3) You may have an exceptionally high GPA and DAT/MCAT score, but so will many of your classmates. Odds are you won't even have the USMLE/NDBE and class rank to get interviews for orthodontics or derm.
4) Money isn't everything.

 

[Galen1]

I've got an Ortho question: Most programs in the U.S I've noticed are 2 years long. At the end of this "Ortho Residency" do you receive an MSc degree? I'm curious because I know in most Canadian schools Ortho is a 3 year program leading to an MSc degree.

 

[S Files]

I've heard a lot that ortho is the most competitive dental residency to get into? How would you compare it with getting into one of the ROADE (rad, opth, anesth, derm, Emergency Med) residencies in medicine? Generally speaking, do you think it's more realistic to aim to be a dermatologist or orthodontist?

wow you're getting a lot of hate from this post - i don't agree with your mindset, but i do see where you're coming from. lot's of pre-meds and pre-dents do think this way as well. you want to be in healthcare, with the lifestyle as well. there's a lot of med students i knew who were dreading a match into the group of less desirable specialties. some dent students are the same way with some aspects of general dentistry.

to answer you, all are extremely difficult (except emergency med i think). you can't afford to screw up your grades - need to be in top 5-10% of class and 95'ish on boards. several intelligent, hard working classmates will be competing with you. i don't think anyone will be able to answer this question for you. but you do tend to study more when you are interested in that field. so i would volunteer a little bit in each of the specialties you listed. then decide. get involved in research and stuff like that early on in professional school of your choice.

 

[gryffindor]

I was actually wondering what happens to medical residents who apply to an uber-competitive specialty, like Dermatology, and don't match their senior year and came across this thread.

And in response to the OP's question, I think it is harder to become a dermatologist than an orthodontist. Neither path is easy, but I think the derm one is a little more convoluted. For one thing, you have to have superb USMLE scores to apply to derm. Ask all the oral surgery residents who have taken both the NBDE and the USMLE and they tend to post that the Part I dental board exam is silly when compared to trying to even pass the USMLE. You have to be at the top of your class for a shot at both specialties, so that factors into probably being the same.

I think the "harder" part actually comes if you have great stats but didn't match into derm or ortho your senior year because there are just way more applicants than spots, what do you do now? As a dentist, you have a lot of flexibility in focusing your career on procedures you like, including braces. You can still learn how to do ortho in CE courses and do it on your patients, you just can't call yourself an orthodontist - but you will still be doing the procedures. But as a physician, if you don't match into derm and end up doing a residency in your "back-up" plan of Anesthesia, you never have the chance to do derm again. From reading SDN, sounds like if you want to try and apply to derm again after med school graduation, you have to do some immense scut stuff like research & internal medicine for a year or two or more to publish & significantly improve your application. Whereas with dentistry, there is not much you can do to improve your re-application. You graduate as a dentist and start practicing as you continue to reapply for orthodontics, if you still have the motivation to do it.

 

[gator1210]

Hey man, sorry I called you an idiot. It was a visceral reaction to your post.

Let me give you a proper response:
1) It's impossible to compare getting into derm with getting into ortho. But yes, they're both competetive.
2) How do you know you're interested in ortho and derm? You're not even in dental school or medical school yet. You know nothing; i'm in second year dental school and i still know nothing about ortho.
3) You may have an exceptionally high GPA and DAT/MCAT score, but so will many of your classmates. Odds are you won't even have the USMLE/NDBE and class rank to get interviews for orthodontics or derm.
4) Money isn't everything.

Haha, funny thing happened today. My pre-med friend told me he will make more money being a surgeon.

I replied, money isnt everything, its the quality of life.

He replied, your right, I forgot cars and hoes.

 

[TKD]

Whereas with dentistry, there is not much you can do to improve your re-application. You graduate as a dentist and start practicing as you continue to reapply for orthodontics, if you still have the motivation to do it.

have to disagree with that statement. personally know of several successful ways of improving re-apps. masters, tmd, cleft-craniofacial, etc , etc. also med and dent residents sometimes do one residency then move on the another (i.e. pedo then ortho, same with med).
also i wouldn't give those weekend warrior ortho ce courses as much credit as they may seem.

 

[ObviousGuy]

also i wouldn't give those weekend warrior ortho ce courses as much credit as they may seem.

Otherwise you'll start seeing 'super dentist' syndrome. One weekend CE course and they take on cases that they end up having to refer over anyway.

 

[gryffindor]

have to disagree with that statement. personally know of several successful ways of improving re-apps. masters, tmd, cleft-craniofacial, etc , etc. also med and dent residents sometimes do one residency then move on the another (i.e. pedo then ortho, same with med).
also i wouldn't give those weekend warrior ortho ce courses as much credit as they may seem.

Yeah, I know of all those ways to "improve" your application to ortho. IMO, those opportunities are very limited and some of those options take a lot of time - like doing a masters or an entirely different specialty. And none is a guarantee. Also, I don't think it improves your application if you don't have the stats to begin with. If you are competitive and didn't get in, it might show dedication.

I think a fellowship is a great thing for someone trying to get into Oral Surgery - 1)there are lots of them available to pursue. 2) If you don't get into OMS after a fellowship, you will still have learned a ton on how to handle more OMS procedures in your office. 3)They are also paid positions.

For ortho, I can think of very few "fellowships" - Florida (ortho), Chicago (cranio-facial), Vanderbilt (but not every year), Rochester (this is a TMD program though), Lancaster Cleft Palate Clinic (I think?), UConn (maybe?). Unless you're counting the TMD programs from that other thread as more "fellowships." Majority, if not all of these fellowships, you have to pay the institution tuition for the privilege of participating. When you finish, and if you don't get into ortho (it happens 🙁 ), do you really come away with any useful skills to add to your general practice? No, but you do have more debt now. IMO, a GPR which does full ortho in it would be a more useful way to spend the year. Of course, if you do make some connections and get in, it's worth it.

 

[Jediwendell]

Yeah, I know of all those ways to "improve" your application to ortho. IMO, those opportunities are very limited and some of those options take a lot of time - like doing a masters or an entirely different specialty. And none is a guarantee. Also, I don't think it improves your application if you don't have the stats to begin with. If you are competitive and didn't get in, it might show dedication.

I think a fellowship is a great thing for someone trying to get into Oral Surgery - 1)there are lots of them available to pursue. 2) If you don't get into OMS after a fellowship, you will still have learned a ton on how to handle more OMS procedures in your office. 3)They are also paid positions.

For ortho, I can think of very few "fellowships" - Florida (ortho), Chicago (cranio-facial), Vanderbilt (but not every year), Rochester (this is a TMD program though), Lancaster Cleft Palate Clinic (I think?), UConn (maybe?). Unless you're counting the TMD programs from that other thread as more "fellowships." Majority, if not all of these fellowships, you have to pay the institution tuition for the privilege of participating. When you finish, and if you don't get into ortho (it happens 🙁 ), do you really come away with any useful skills to add to your general practice? No, but you do have more debt now. IMO, a GPR which does full ortho in it would be a more useful way to spend the year. Of course, if you do make some connections and get in, it's worth it.

Florida's fellowship usually gets people into a residency, but it is VERY expensi ve and fairly competitive as well.

 

[Jediwendell]

I've heard a lot that ortho is the most competitive dental residency to get into? How would you compare it with getting into one of the ROADE (rad, opth, anesth, derm, Emergency Med) residencies in medicine? Generally speaking, do you think it's more realistic to aim to be a dermatologist or orthodontist?

Ortho is probably a little easier to get into than Derm. Dental school is weird, though, because you can't just be a genius and smoke it. You have to be good at arts and crafts, too. So really the answer is that it is different for different people. Derm is very competitive. The top two people in my medical school class applied for derm and didn't get in. The top people will usually get into ortho if they apply. Radiology, opth, anesth, etc. are not as competitive as ortho or even endodontics, I don't think.

 

[Galen1]

Do Ortho residents in the States receive an MSc at the end? Or some kind of certification?

Ortho is probably a little easier to get into than Derm. Dental school is weird, though, because you can't just be a genius and smoke it. You have to be good at arts and crafts, too. So really the answer is that it is different for different people. Derm is very competitive. The top two people in my medical school class applied for derm and didn't get in. The top people will usually get into ortho if they apply. Radiology, opth, anesth, etc. are not as competitive as ortho or even endodontics, I don't think.

 

[gryffindor]

Do Ortho residents in the States receive an MSc at the end? Or some kind of certification?

All accredited residency programs award a certificate when you finish. However, the Master's degree depends on the program. Some programs make it mandatory & part of the curriculum for you to earn it, some have it optional, and other's don't even offer it.