Dual Specializing Pros-Ortho

[Balancedocclusion]

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Hi,

I feel im about to get grilled on here for this but I'm a current pros resident and have grown a strong affinity for ortho as well now and am considering to continue my training and specialize in ortho afterwards. I found Dr. Jensen in Texas has done something like this and runs a practice doing both which is something I hope to do as well. My question is, especially for those who have gone through the interview process for ortho, would me being in a pros program and wanting to dual specialize be frowned upon?
For background, I did an advanced standing, AEGD, worked for a year as a GP, and am now in pros residency at the same dental school I went to before. I never had any research, but being in my residency now I will have an MS at the end and Im thinking to do research on a subject that ties both specialties together. I'll need to take the GRE and planning to visit some programs in my area too. We have an ortho dept at my school so I have a chance at getting some solid LoR. In terms of the programs I was looking at, my only options are really the ones offering a stipend and/or hospital-based programs:
MedStar Washington Hospital Center
Albert Einstein Medical Center
Monte
St. Barnabas Hospital
UCLA
UCSF
Maimonides
University of Rochester

I was wondering if I would have a good shot at any one of those programs and what should I do to improve my chances apart from the things I mentioned before? Has anyone met similar ppl who had already done a specialty on the ortho path and how did they do? Thank you!

 

[omfsing]

YOLO

 

[D1Bound]

Hi,

I feel im about to get grilled on here for this but I'm a current pros resident and have grown a strong affinity for ortho as well now and am considering to continue my training and specialize in ortho afterwards. I found Dr. Jensen in Texas has done something like this and runs a practice doing both which is something I hope to do as well. My question is, especially for those who have gone through the interview process for ortho, would me being in a pros program and wanting to dual specialize be frowned upon?
For background, I did an advanced standing, AEGD, worked for a year as a GP, and am now in pros residency at the same dental school I went to before. I never had any research, but being in my residency now I will have an MS at the end and Im thinking to do research on a subject that ties both specialties together. I'll need to take the GRE and planning to visit some programs in my area too. We have an ortho dept at my school so I have a chance at getting some solid LoR. In terms of the programs I was looking at, my only options are really the ones offering a stipend and/or hospital-based programs:
MedStar Washington Hospital Center
Albert Einstein Medical Center
Monte
St. Barnabas Hospital
UCLA
UCSF
Maimonides
University of Rochester

I was wondering if I would have a good shot at any one of those programs and what should I do to improve my chances apart from the things I mentioned before? Has anyone met similar ppl who had already done a specialty on the ortho path and how did they do? Thank you!

My question is, how are you going to find the clientele that will pay for full prosth rehab with ortho treatment? Those are super dedicated patients. I’m sure they exist but that is an extremely boutique type of practice

 

[niko472]

I met a guy on interviews last year who was a prosthodontist. Believe he matched.

UCLA and UCSF heavily favor D4s with a ton of research. I would apply to UIC and Tufts. because they tend to be friendly to non-trads. You might want to try Penn as well bc they have dual specialty programs (perio-ortho and perio-prosth).

Get some research under your belt, apply broadly, and really nail the question why ortho.

 

[D1Bound]

I met a guy on interviews last year who was a prosthodontist. Believe he matched.

UCLA and UCSF heavily favor D4s with a ton of research. I would apply to UIC and Tufts. because they tend to be friendly to non-trads. You might want to try Penn as well bc they have dual specialty programs (perio-ortho and perio-prosth).

Get some research under your belt, apply broadly, and really nail the question why ortho.

Unless the OP is rich, do not do this. Apply only to stipend pay programs.

 

[Balancedocclusion]

Unless the OP is rich, do not do this. Apply only to stipend pay programs.

Yeah only looking to apply to paid programs. And yeah I agree it's pretty niche, I only found one doc Dr. Jensen who does both. My idea is to run the practice mainly as an ortho office and take on a smaller number of prosth/rehab cases either through referrals or from existing patients needing more complex restorative care

 

[Lemillion]

Yeah only looking to apply to paid programs. And yeah I agree it's pretty niche, I only found one doc Dr. Jensen who does both. My idea is to run the practice mainly as an ortho office and take on a smaller number of prosth/rehab cases either through referrals or from existing patients needing more complex restorative care

Just a thought from my past interviews. When they do inquire about future plans, I would recommend saying something along the lines of, "I want to utilize my prosth background to support a career solely in ortho. I believe my adv training in occlusion/restorative will lend well with adult ortho cases requiring good interdisplicnary care....etc, etc." The reason I say this is at one of early interviews, I mentioned practicing ortho mainly and doing pedo "part time" or something similar to your idea and I got burned bad. They essentially were like, "we're not training a part time ortho, if you wanted that then just do CE and dabble in the specialty versus going back". I think for them, it's something about being dedicated to the specialty and business wise not losing referrals from GP/pedo. I still plan on doing pedo "part time"/ "blended" but I had to downplay it and say 100% ortho as I was interviewing after that moment.

Best of luck as you go through this process!

 

[Balancedocclusion]

Just a thought from my past interviews. When they do inquire about future plans, I would recommend saying something along the lines of, "I want to utilize my prosth background to support a career solely in ortho. I believe my adv training in occlusion/restorative will lend well with adult ortho cases requiring good interdisplicnary care....etc, etc." The reason I say this is at one of early interviews, I mentioned practicing ortho mainly and doing pedo "part time" or something similar to your idea and I got burned bad. They essentially were like, "we're not training a part time ortho, if you wanted that then just do CE and dabble in the specialty versus going back". I think for them, it's something about being dedicated to the specialty and business wise not losing referrals from GP/pedo. I still plan on doing pedo "part time"/ "blended" but I had to downplay it and say 100% ortho as I was interviewing after that moment.

Best of luck as you go through this process!

Thank you so much for this advice! Totally agree to present it that youre all in for ortho regardless how we would want to practice later on. This is such a common question, but Ive only been on the pros interview side of things, do ortho programs care if we apply to both match and non-match schools, unless they explicitly say they dont want anyone who is applying to non match programs and you need to sign something. From my understanding, there is no way programs can check that unless the directors ask each other who they interviewed?

 

[New_Vegas]

My question is why you would want to do ortho? I'm not trying to talk you out of it, I'm just genuinely curious as to why.

People are having less kids, there has been a massive surge in the number of orthodontists graduating from residencies, GPs are doing a lot more aligners, and quite frankly the outlook of the specialty is looking bleak.

I'm sure you don't need me telling you this for you to figure it out, and I know I'm not going to change your mind, but I would just hope you have a good reason for why you want to do this, otherwise you could regret it later.

 

[Balancedocclusion]

My question is why you would want to do ortho? I'm not trying to talk you out of it, I'm just genuinely curious as to why.

People are having less kids, there has been a massive surge in the number of orthodontists graduating from residencies, GPs are doing a lot more aligners, and quite frankly the outlook of the specialty is looking bleak.

I'm sure you don't need me telling you this for you to figure it out, and I know I'm not going to change your mind, but I would just hope you have a good reason for why you want to do this, otherwise you could regret it later.

Thank you for your insight! And those are all valid points. Ive realized more that the complex restorative and ethetic cases ive worked on could have benefited from ortho tx first and I’m genuinely drawn to the mechanics, treatment planning, and esthetic side of ortho. I want to be able to do ortho as a specialist, being able to treat all types cases and not be limited because I just took a 2 day invisalign course.

I understand the market isnt what it used to be although asking my ortho friends theyre very happy with their work and the pay. I also havent met an orthodontist yet who regretted their decision.

Ive thought about ortho couple times before, but was always told by people I shouldnt do it because my application wasnt strong enough even though I had an interest. Im 29 now and I want to think my application is getting better and I think I’d regret not doing it at all more than I’d ever regret going for it. For me, it’s about doing something that aligns with what I actually enjoy and see myself growing in long term.

 

[Lemillion]

Thank you so much for this advice! Totally agree to present it that youre all in for ortho regardless how we would want to practice later on. This is such a common question, but Ive only been on the pros interview side of things, do ortho programs care if we apply to both match and non-match schools, unless they explicitly say they dont want anyone who is applying to non match programs and you need to sign something. From my understanding, there is no way programs can check that unless the directors ask each other who they interviewed?

Honestly, I believe ortho programs act if they care about applying to match only BUT there's no way they can truly check nor do they have the time to verify with other directors. I applied to both match and non-match programs and did my best to not mention about the non-match programs when interviewing. A lot of candidates too will take a non-match spot, hold onto to it until match, gamble with match and if they match to a program, they'll drop the non match one. Usually the non-match ones will be annoyed but at that point, they tend to focus on finding a replacement rather than deal with anything else.

Long-story short, the whole match/non-match thing is primarily a scare tactic to prevent top candidates from being lost to non match programs and match programs waste their time interviewing a candidate that can potentially be signed away. It's like dating someone that's on the verge of being engaged and you don't even know about it LOL.

 

[Pickle Dental]

I think the only issue you might have is limiting the schools you are applying to. Stipend schools are the most competitive and I have a feeling they might take a competitive D4 over you since they might view you as someone who cannot decide on what they want to do since you are already a pros resident. I could be completely wrong and they might prefer you due to your background?? Good luck boss