Ortho private programs (JU, GSO, etc)

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Golden93

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For applying,

do you have to have documentation of liquid funds of like 70K in the bank to apply or after acceptance?
and also does that limit who actually applies ie smaller #s of applicants due to the outrageous amount you need to have on hand?

Thanks 🙂
 
For applying,

do you have to have documentation of liquid funds of like 70K in the bank to apply or after acceptance?
and also does that limit who actually applies ie smaller #s of applicants due to the outrageous amount you need to have on hand?

Thanks 🙂

No, I think with CTOR that new program in NJ you have to. That’s probably because it is not accredited and it is 80k per year.

If you are debating going there you’re MASSIVELY INSANE, since you could spend all that money and it not even be accredited.

Come to mention, if youre are paying for a private ortho residency you have lost your mind. The market for ortho is awful and only going to get worse.
 
You need documentation for CTOR and Georgia School of Orthodontics. You are not eligible for taking out federal loans from these schools, I believe.
 
You need documentation for CTOR and Georgia School of Orthodontics. You are not eligible for taking out federal loans from these schools, I believe.

CTOR may not even get accreditation and Georgia is just another mill. Each one is three years at 80k per year!!! That’s 240k.

Take into account the three years of not practicing as a GP. If your a GP with a pulse you’ll make 120k. You can double that if you work hard. So that’s three years your not making atleast 200k, which is 600k. That’s an almost ONE MILLION opportunity cost, not to mention in your prime earning years.

Your money is better spent staying as a GP, socking some money away from retirement, and do your own ortho as a GP.
 
Hi! Ortho loans are scary but if you work hard doing what you love, you'll make it back. The starting for ortho is 800-1000 a day whereas general is 600-800. Sure it's not a lot more but you'll be happier in the end. Don't let someone else's opinion deter you away from your dream! Also ortho is very competitive, sometimes you have to take what you get. If you go to a relatively expensive 3 year program, it'll be okay! Just live like a student for a few years. And do try to go to an accreditated program if you can. Good luck!
 
I know you're doing ortho. What made you choose to do it with this significant opportunity cost if you're so worried

Decided to stay as a GP that does some ortho. Too high of an opportunity cost for these expensive programs. Also the job market sucks! I’m making 300k as a GP, how much more can you possibly make as an ortho? Not too much I imagine.
 
No, I think with CTOR that new program in NJ you have to. That’s probably because it is not accredited and it is 80k per year.

If you are debating going there you’re MASSIVELY INSANE, since you could spend all that money and it not even be accredited.

Come to mention, if youre are paying for a private ortho residency you have lost your mind. The market for ortho is awful and only going to get worse.

The future of the profession will be interesting. But braces will not go anywhere or the complex cases we treat with braces. Aligners work great with simple
Decided to stay as a GP that does some ortho. Too high of an opportunity cost for these expensive programs. Also the job market sucks! I’m making 300k as a GP, how much more can you possibly make as an ortho? Not too much I imagine.


Agree with some of your comments. Agree that to specialize in ortho with a huge amount of debt is not financially smart. Years ago .... the economic climate for ortho was better than it is now. It was easier to be REALLY successful back then. But times have changed and the new orthodontists are adapting to the current environment. In time ... I see the profession and ortho political organizations stepping up their campaigns on what separates ortho treatment between generalists and specialists. Aligner treatment has improved over the years, but it has serious drawbacks especially with those who use them with no real orthodontic knowledge.

And the big point. Let's face it. It's pretty universal that orthodontists have a better lifestyle (less back issues, less stressful appts, less liability, longer possiblity to practice, etc. etc) than general dentists. As for salary. Like I said .... earlier in my private practice career .... I made bank. Now in my mid 50's .... I work Corp 4 days a week as a way to downsize and reduce ownership stress. Quite frankly the ability to earn $$$$$ working for a Corp as an Orthodontist is better than most people realize.

Want to be an Orthodontist? Be realistic about your DS and residency debt. If it's worth it .... go for it.
 
The future of the profession will be interesting. But braces will not go anywhere or the complex cases we treat with braces. Aligners work great with simple



Agree with some of your comments. Agree that to specialize in ortho with a huge amount of debt is not financially smart. Years ago .... the economic climate for ortho was better than it is now. It was easier to be REALLY successful back then. But times have changed and the new orthodontists are adapting to the current environment. In time ... I see the profession and ortho political organizations stepping up their campaigns on what separates ortho treatment between generalists and specialists. Aligner treatment has improved over the years, but it has serious drawbacks especially with those who use them with no real orthodontic knowledge.

And the big point. Let's face it. It's pretty universal that orthodontists have a better lifestyle (less back issues, less stressful appts, less liability, longer possiblity to practice, etc. etc) than general dentists. As for salary. Like I said .... earlier in my private practice career .... I made bank. Now in my mid 50's .... I work Corp 4 days a week as a way to downsize and reduce ownership stress. Quite frankly the ability to earn $$$$$ working for a Corp as an Orthodontist is better than most people realize.

Want to be an Orthodontist? Be realistic about your DS and residency debt. If it's worth it .... go for it.

True, but the complex, longer cases are less profitable.

I still think you’re certifiably insane if you apply to that new program CTOR, which is 80k per year, not accredited , and is 3 years.
 
True, but the complex, longer cases are less profitable.

I still think you’re certifiably insane if you apply to that new program CTOR, which is 80k per year, not accredited , and is 3 years.
To the GPs, the cases are complex but to the orthodontists, they are easy. When you treat “complex” cases every single day in your practice and learn from these cases, everything becomes easy. The assistants still do most of the manual labors. The orthodontist just needs to diagnose, comes up with the right treament mechanics, and writes down the tasks for the assistants to perform….and this usually takes 1-2 minutes. So there is not much difference in the doctor’s time for a 24 month case and for a 36 month case. Long “complex” cases are just as profitable as the shorter ones.

The key is to book as many patients in one day as possible and keep all your assistants busy. This allows you to work fewer days in a month so you have free days to travel to other office locations. To save in overhead, you make your assistants travel with you. You can’t have a profitable practice when there are several empty slots in your appointment book and the assistants sit around doing nothing and still get paid.
 
The antithesis of paying back student loans.

Big Hoss

CTOR is not accredited. Can you imagine paying 240k, you get to graduation, and you can’t be called an orthodontist because your program isn’t accredited? What a joke orthodontics residency has become!
 
CTOR is not accredited. Can you imagine paying 240k, you get to graduation, and you can’t be called an orthodontist because your program isn’t accredited? What a joke orthodontics residency has become!
That $240,000 doesn’t account for 3 years of living expenses and accrued interest.

Big Hoss
 
That $240,000 doesn’t account for 3 years of living expenses and accrued interest.

Big Hoss

I wonder how they can advertise as an Orthodontic specialty program when it’s not accredited, and risk accepting students. Seems like lawsuits will inevitably occur.
 
North of 1mill if you’re a decent practice owner
 
CTOR may not even get accreditation and Georgia is just another mill. Each one is three years at 80k per year!!! That’s 240k.

Take into account the three years of not practicing as a GP. If your a GP with a pulse you’ll make 120k. You can double that if you work hard. So that’s three years your not making atleast 200k, which is 600k. That’s an almost ONE MILLION opportunity cost, not to mention in your prime earning years.

Your money is better spent staying as a GP, socking some money away from retirement, and do your own ortho as a GP.

How did you learn ortho as a gp?
 
I took a 2 year comprehensive ortho course
 
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