Ortho vs Derm

[kfcman289]

Hi,

I am a medical student who is considering between orthopedic surgery and derm. I find both interesting but want to know how they differ in terms of satisfaction, hours, compensation, etc. Can someone list how these factors compare for the two specialites?
Thanks!

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[afib123]

What year are you? They are pretty different. Derm is more diagnosis based with some procedures. Also has a much easier residency/ nice lifestyle.
Ortho is mainly procedures w/ a tough residency. Wide variety of subspecialties.
Ortho is more pay but you work that much harder.

I guess similarities are the competitive nature to get in. Shadowing would be your best bet to find out the differences for yourself.

Even internal medicine and the subspecialties cardiology and GI, which share some similarities with derm, are still pretty different in terms of patient population, pathology of disease, lifestyle.

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

Similarities??

Competitiveness and salary.

you're an M1, huh?

 

[Dr. Doctor MD]

Hi,

I am a medical student who is considering between orthopedic surgery and derm. I find both interesting but want to know how they differ in terms of satisfaction, hours, compensation, etc. Can someone list how these factors compare for the two specialites?
Thanks!

Pay:
Derm - Good money 350-400+
Ortho - Insane money 500-600+


Residency Hours:
Derm>>>Ortho

Hours/lifestyle as a physician:
Derm: Very Good
Ortho: Ranges from crappy to very good based on the sub-specialty and job. Trauma terrible, elective surgery great.

Actual Job:
Derm: clinic all day long 5 days a week with some short procedures/very minor surgeries
Ortho: Surgery all day most days with enough clinic to keep a steady supply of surgeries booked.

Satisfaction:
100% variable, physicians in both fields are very highly satisfied. This will depend on your personal interests. Most surgeons hate clinic, and like to spend all day operating. Obviously dermatologists need to love clinic since it's 99.9% of what they do.

Competitiveness:
Derm is probably just slightly more competitive than ortho, similar step 1, but more research for derm, however both are neck and neck as very competitive specialties.

 

[JP2740]

Pay:
Derm - Good money 350-400+
Ortho - Insane money 500-600+


Residency Hours:
Derm>>>Ortho

Hours/lifestyle as a physician:
Derm: Very Good
Ortho: Ranges from crappy to very good based on the sub-specialty and job. Trauma terrible, elective surgery great.

Actual Job:
Derm: clinic all day long 5 days a week with some short procedures/very minor surgeries
Ortho: Surgery all day most days with enough clinic to keep a steady supply of surgeries booked.

Satisfaction:
100% variable, physicians in both fields are very highly satisfied. This will depend on your personal interests. Most surgeons hate clinic, and like to spend all day operating. Obviously dermatologists need to love clinic since it's 99.9% of what they do.

Competitiveness:
Derm is probably just slightly more competitive than ortho, similar step 1, but more research for derm, however both are neck and neck as very competitive specialties.

Derm is way more competitive than ortho bro.

 

[Disciple of Sattar]

In my school's derm department there are currently 3 "research fellows" who are 2-6 years post transitional/prelim year with CVs listing one low paying derm fellowship after another with no derm match to show for it. It's pretty horrifying tbh, glad I'm not interested in derm.

 

[DrGoon]

Hi,

I am a medical student who is considering between orthopedic surgery and derm. I find both interesting but want to know how they differ in terms of satisfaction, hours, compensation, etc. Can someone list how these factors compare for the two specialites?
Thanks!

There is no way you’re a medical student

 

[IMreshopeful]

In my school's derm department there are currently 3 "research fellows" who are 2-6 years post transitional/prelim year with CVs listing one low paying derm fellowship after another with no derm match to show for it. It's pretty horrifying tbh, glad I'm not interested in derm.

Yeah at that point I would just throw in the towel and look for an anesthesia spot (if we are keeping with the theme of low work/high pay)

Also pretty sure the OP just looked at the money and knows nothing about the specialties

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Derm is way more competitive than ortho bro.

I wouldn’t say “way more.” We are both in the top 5.


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[LoGo]

Actually I also found ortho and derm very similar in a lot of ways:

- quick paced, high volume
- generally healthy patients (or at least stable) of all ages
- patients WANT to see you to get help, rather than say a cardiologist or neurosurgeon = good patient compliance
- both can do big business private practice
- ability to have a dramatic and rapid effect on patient quality of life, and less often mortality
- no one else in the hospital knows **** about bones or skin so you are the unquestioned final authority (except for some peripherally related stuff from friends in rheum or plastics)
- short consult notes
- visual/physical exam based specialties; no fancy labs needed for most of your diagnoses
- both connective tissues and technically funded under the same NIH institute; so yes they are indeed related on a fundamental level. Collagen for the win to keep your bones strong and skin silky smooth.
- Ancef covers skin and bones

Where they differ is:
- more clinic time vs more procedure time. There is flexibility in that ortho can do more clinic if they want (especially sports med), and likewise derm can do more procedures if they want (eg. Mohs surgery) but obviously there is a difference between a general derm and a general ortho in terms of their clinic/procedures ratio.
- residency work load is hospital focused for ortho, reading focused for derm, and ortho often being 2-3 years longer with fellowships and such
- attending life is almost certainly easier and more flexible as a dermatologist
- income is usually higher overall in ortho, but per hour they are about the same
- derm probably a bit more flexible job wise
- derm a bit broader in the sense that there are a ton of primary derm conditions as well as derm manifestations of non-primary derm conditions
- ortho more often you get to become an expert in a particular niche area of the specialty

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

- patients WANT to see you to get help, rather than say a cardiologist or neurosurgeon = good patient compliance

I wish.


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[LoGo]

I wish.


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Well, maybe not as an ortho trauma lol

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Well, maybe not as an ortho trauma lol

Noncompliance is rampant in all of the Ortho subspecialties. Especially postop, weight bearing, and therapy.


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[VA Hopeful Dr]

Noncompliance is rampant in all of the Ortho subspecialties. Especially postop, weight bearing, and therapy.


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Yep. Since many of the common ortho problems are at least partially weight related, you're going to get your 500 lbs patients who want you to make their knees not hurt.

And let's be honest with ourselves, no one follows PT 100%.

 

[LoGo]

Noncompliance is rampant in all of the Ortho subspecialties. Especially postop, weight bearing, and therapy.


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Sure, this is medicine after all, but in comparison to many other specialties this is at least less of a problem or more transient of a problem in ortho. Diabetics, COPDers, Psych patients, cirrhotics - those are the standard in non compliance.

Yep. Since many of the common ortho problems are at least partially weight related, you're going to get your 500 lbs patients who want you to make their knees not hurt.

And let's be honest with ourselves, no one follows PT 100%.

For elective ortho problems you can somewhat weed out the people who are not good surgical candidates which includes ability to rehab. Otherwise non compliance issues are on you. Doing a TKA on a BMI over 50... you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.

But yes, no specialty has perfect compliance. Ortho there’s PT, derm patients probably don’t use their cream as directed, but in both cases it’s not to the same level of issue as some other specialties. Just hang out on a medical ward and you will see.

Anyways, I’ll stop writing about this now to keep the thread on topic.

 

[nimbus]

Yeah at that point I would just throw in the towel and look for an anesthesia spot (if we are keeping with the theme of low work/high pay)

Also pretty sure the OP just looked at the money and knows nothing about the specialties

Very different jobs. Polar opposite specialties.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Sure, this is medicine after all, but in comparison to many other specialties this is at least less of a problem or more transient of a problem in ortho. Diabetics, COPDers, Psych patients, cirrhotics - those are the standard in non compliance.

Please stop.

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[LoGo]

Please stop.

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Likewise.

 

[username456789]

The major difference is that the ortho folks like to talk about how much they can lift (used to lift?) while I actually have time to go to the gym and put up heavier weights.

 

[DrGoon]

The major difference is that the ortho folks like to talk about how much they can lift (used to lift?) while I actually have time to go to the gym and put up heavier weights.

frat

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Likewise.

Last I checked, only one of us was actually in the field the nuances of which were being commented on. Not sure where you get off being an expert in compliance in our patients, but I assure you that you sound ridiculous and giving people the wrong information.


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[jhamaican]

Even in 2019, I would still take a porsche over tesla, but that is just me.

These specialties have almost nothing in common other than money. I am not here to judge you, just be sure to be honest with yourself what it is that you are after.

 

[werd]

Medscape publishes specialty compensation reports and satisfaction reports annually. my advice is join Medscape and look a their data.
i'm in derm but not familiar enough with ortho to make a true comparison. derm is a lot of little procedures, hectic days with high volume of patients, good pay and pay per hr, outpatient hours (35-50/wk), and most are still satisfied overall.
as others have stated, ortho and derm are not very similar in terms of actual job descriptions. if you haven't done rotations in both fields yet, you'll probably gain the insight you need when you do.

 

[username456789]

frat

banana

 

[VincentAdultman]

You find derm and ortho interesting huh.

 

[Psai]

You find derm and ortho interesting huh.

Skin and muscles is my thing

 

[alprazoslam]

Where are you getting this data? Adherence in dermatology is absolutely abysmal.

We might as well pull out the non compliance ruler and measure whoevers is longest

 

[alprazoslam]

The major difference is that the ortho folks like to talk about how much they can lift (used to lift?) while I actually have time to go to the gym and put up heavier weights.

What if we lift and put lotion on the skin

 

[DrSnips]

What if we lift and put lotion on the skin

It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the Mohs again.

 

[Newyawk]

This post is cringeworthy. Reminds me of the 16 year olds i meet who tell me theyre going to be dermatologists cuz of the lifestyle.

 

[ceilingfan019]

There's a guy in my class who started M1 year wanting to do neurosurgery, derm, plastics or ortho. Matching this year into IM.

How can you be interested in things you know nothing about except salary

 

[Rekt]

There's a guy in my class who started M1 year wanting to do neurosurgery, derm, plastics or ortho. Matching this year into IM.

How can you be interested in things you know nothing about except salary

Realistically, Step 1 decides what most of us are doing.

 

[Newyawk]

Realistically, Step 1 decides what most of us are doing.

Its probably the most underrated fact about med school. I love hearing college students say they wanna do neurosurg or ortho, etc.
they have no idea

 

[afib123]

Realistically, Step 1 decides what most of us are doing.

True. But probably for about 60%-70%. There are some high step scorers that choose to do pediatrics and family and IM. Although most of the high-scoring step 1 scorers that go into IM are are more likely aiming for top programs with good chance for cards and GI fellowships

 

[droliver]

Ortho and derm have literally NOTHING in common other then that they're both doctors. Also, orthopedics would usually make significantly more money then a dermatologist, but work MUCH harder.

 

[XannyBarz]

Its probably the most underrated fact about med school. I love hearing college students say they wanna do neurosurg or ortho, etc.
they have no idea

I was all in on neurosurg until I got that 225 step 1. Psych looking real prime now

 

[MSTP18]

Where are you getting this data? Adherence in dermatology is absolutely abysmal.

His ass

 

[Treebeard]

Are you actually interested in either of these? Or just interested in money?

 

[Splenda88]

Are you actually interested in either of these? Or just interested in money?

If physicians start making 100-120k/yr, I think med school admission will not be competitive.

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

If physicians start making 100-120k/yr, I think med school admission will not be competitive.

tuition better not be 50k+/year then anymore

 

[afib123]

If physicians start making 100-120k/yr, I think med school admission will not be competitive.

I would agree. If nurses start to make more than physicians, nursing school will be eventually become more competitive. But if money is the only reason to do these fields, might be hard to succeed in them especially ortho. Maybe derm too, not sure how difficult derm residency is in terms of material to learn (lifestyle is ok is the consensus)

 

[LoGo]

His ass

Just my own experiences across specialties, as someone who interviewed for both ortho and derm

 

[Splenda88]

I would agree. If nurses start to make more than physicians, nursing school will be eventually become more competitive. But if money is the only reason to do these fields, might be hard to succeed in them especially ortho. Maybe derm too, not sure how difficult derm residency is in terms of material to learn (lifestyle is ok is the consensus)

I don't know, but the $$$ sometimes can be a good motivator...

 

[afib123]

I don't know, but the $$$ sometimes can be a good motivator...

Ya but when you can get similar money in a different field (plastics, interventional cardiology, private practice GI, neurosurgery, maybe ENT (?), Urology, you can pick something you like and make money than pick something you hate just with money. If you didn't have other options, yup I would agree and I am sure regardless of what people say on the outside, there are quite a few that I know that go into derm, ortho, etc for money. Not all but some

 

[Odysseus Rex]

OP I had these thoughts back in the day too. I had the scores to consider both. I get it.

Simple as this: I would much rather be in the OR some days than have clinic every day, and my patient interactions are much more fulfilling in orthopaedic surgery.

If you find a burning interest in the subject matter, culture, and so forth of orthopaedics, I don’t think you can beat it as far as surgery specialties go. There is a great variety of subspecialties and practice styles, as mentioned by other posters.

If you find that you’re passionate about skin disease and prefer only clinic settings, you can’t beat dermatology. On the other hand, If you’re not passionate about anything after clinical rotations, and you have the scores/grades to make a pragmatic career decision, you can’t beat dermatology either. Lifestyle + pay + responsibility are great…on paper.

However, pragmatism doesn’t work as well as you think. Follow your passions through the coming years. I didn’t believe it early on, but they won’t steer you wrong.

 

[314117]

Are you actually interested in either of these? Or just interested in money?

Why does it matter? Why do you care about his motivations?
Are you implying that he has to be "interested" in a specialty to pursue it, and that choosing a field for money is not OK?

That's the kind of BS that med schools and residencies feed to students, that they should find the field they are "passionate" about and not be concerned about money.

It's ridiculous. Money can be as big or a bigger deciding factor than anything else.
Best to ignore anyone who tells you something as stupid as this, or something like "follow your passions".

Not a realistic way to pick a career.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Why does it matter? Why do you care about his motivations?
Are you implying that he has to be "interested" in a specialty to pursue it, and that choosing a field for money is not OK?

That's the kind of BS that med schools and residencies feed to students, that they should find the field they are "passionate" about and not be concerned about money.

It's ridiculous. Money can be as big or a bigger deciding factor than anything else.
Best to ignore anyone who tells you something as stupid as this, or something like "follow your passions".

Not a realistic way to pick a career.

I can’t speak for medical specialties, but when it comes to a surgical specialty, interest and passion helps you survive the residency. Very hard to deal with it otherwise, if you don’t enjoy it. Yes, you can consider money, but I would not advise someone to be a surgeon just for that; if they have no interest in it at all, they will be miserable, and so will their colleagues and patients.