Orthopaedic

[Dave Copperfield]

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Hey guys,

I am going to start medical school next year and I wanted to know the best advice for getting an orthopedic residency. Should I do preceptor ships year 1? Mostly year 2? Where should I aim for away rotations come third year? Should I start involvement in an ortho research lab starting first year? Any thing else that should come in handy? If any people are currently matched into an ortho program, your advice is the gold that I am looking for. I have had the extremely fortunate circumstance of speaking to several students in person about this who are matched into ortho or who have started their ortho residency. I am looking for more advice than the 5 people that I have talked to.

Thanks.

 

[Mansamusa]

What do you mean by preceptorship? Like shadowing to see if you actually like the field?

You rotate wherever you want. Like I would rotate at the school near my home because I would like to be near my family for residency. Then other programs that are strong in what I like and in locations that I enjoy..? Start research once you get comfortable with the courseload and feel confident that you can add research into the mix. All the publications in the world won't help you if you fail pre-clinical courses.

 

[getdown]

Find an ortho faculty or stop by the ortho PD of your medical school and get their input. Their input will be a million times more useful than whatever you get on these forums.

 

[Dave Copperfield]

Thanks,

On the note of pre-clinical, how do you determine the best school to go school in terms of ease of preclinical? Or schools that don't rank you so your preclinical classes don't matter as much?

 

[Mansamusa]

Thanks,

On the note of pre-clinical, how do you determine the best school to go school in terms of ease of preclinical? Or schools that don't rank you so your preclinical classes don't matter as much?

I think the best school is the one with the least amount of mandatory classes. I would want to have no responsibilities but to study, do research, speak to surgeons and the PD of my home program, and have me time. And if you are gunning for ortho, make sure the school does have a home residency program.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

Hey guys,

I am going to start medical school next year and I wanted to know the best advice for getting an orthopedic residency. Should I do preceptor ships year 1? Mostly year 2? Where should I aim for away rotations come third year? Should I start involvement in an ortho research lab starting first year? Any thing else that should come in handy? If any people are currently matched into an ortho program, your advice is the gold that I am looking for. I have had the extremely fortunate circumstance of speaking to several students in person about this who are matched into ortho or who have started their ortho residency. I am looking for more advice than the 5 people that I have talked to.

Thanks.

Focus on grades and Step 1, they will be your gateway into ortho. Look into research your MS1 summer

 

[Dave Copperfield]

How do you make sure a school has a home residency program? Just google "School name ortho residency" and see if they have a result? How do you tell the competitiveness of that particular schools ortho residency?

I have heard the same thing about minimizing mandatory classes. That seems to be a huge trend among student preference. I totally agree that I wouldn't like mandatory classes and requirements. To an extent, isn't attending a program with honors a sort of a mandatory requirement of sorts, because it forces me to do well rather than taking refuge in the bell curve and spending the rest of my time on the activities I need to succeed and be happy?

 

[Mansamusa]

How do you make sure a school has a home residency program? Just google "School name ortho residency" and see if they have a result? How do you tell the competitiveness of that particular schools ortho residency?

I have heard the same thing about minimizing mandatory classes. That seems to be a huge trend among student preference. I totally agree that I wouldn't like mandatory classes and requirements. To an extent, isn't attending a program with honors a sort of a mandatory requirement of sorts, because it forces me to do well rather than taking refuge in the bell curve and spending the rest of my time on the activities I need to succeed and be happy?

The competitiveness of the residency isn't a top priority, just make sure it has a program to get LORs and advising from.

Having pre-clinical honors is kind of a plus or minus depending on how you look at it. Getting honors lets you know where you stand (whereas as P/F schools don't, but they usually still rank you and put that quartile ranking in your residency application letter), but P/F has less pressure. But by mandatory, it's more like non-medical classes, TBL/PBL, and stuff like that.

 

[Dave Copperfield]

Thank you so much everybody, and thank you mansamusa.

Back to this pass fail situation: I am accepted to a school with p/f/h and waiting on three other schools, two of which are true p/f.

Frankly, I think the true p/f should relieve a lot of pressure, especially second year when I want to study for boards.

Also, how important are those first two year grades in the grand picture of residency? Comparatively, how much more important are rotations, connections, good letters, and board scores?

Lastly, what is the best battle plan for studying for the boards? I hear that too much focus on your own classes isn't always the best option, because boards test rote memorization that extends beyond the classroom, and the personal study time with question banks and prep books are the best bet. If this is the case, when should one start?

 

[Mansamusa]

You also might find some good stuff http://www.orthogate.org/forums/medical-students here

http://www.orthogate.org/forums/usmle/4378-rock-step-i But everyone learns differently. The best thing to do is learn everything you can throughout 1st and 2nd year

 

[TBV]

Also look into other specialties. That way you can tell people that you're interested in ortho and ___ but possibly ___. And it'll lessen the pain for when you're not top of your class and it's not a realistic goal*

*Just playing the odds. Or maybe I've seen too many people come in saying they're going to be orthos or derm only to get on the 5 year plan

 

[piii]

Hey guys,

I am going to start medical school next year and I wanted to know the best advice for getting an orthopedic residency. Should I do preceptor ships year 1? Mostly year 2? Where should I aim for away rotations come third year? Should I start involvement in an ortho research lab starting first year? Any thing else that should come in handy? If any people are currently matched into an ortho program, your advice is the gold that I am looking for. I have had the extremely fortunate circumstance of speaking to several students in person about this who are matched into ortho or who have started their ortho residency. I am looking for more advice than the 5 people that I have talked to.

Thanks.

Go look at NRMP match data for ortho. 1) step scores 2) clinical rotation scores, with multiple ortho rotations 3) ortho related research

 

[Dave Copperfield]

I looked up the 2014 NRMP pdf of match data...114 pages or something. Very confusing. I tried my best.

How should I read this?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I looked up the 2014 NRMP pdf of match data...114 pages or something. Very confusing. I tried my best.

How should I read this?

Basically that ortho is extremely competative and one should not put all their eggs in that basket before med school even starts. Your first step should be to do as well as you can in your classes to give you a solid background come Step 1 time. Even then keep your eyes open. I personally had a former co-worker who was an ortho diehard, killed step 1, had a great ortho application with research etc, went on to rotations and he (and his wife haha) hated every minute of his ortho rotation. He matched FM because he wanted the lifestyle. Sometimes things will draw you in that you weren't expecting.

 

[tantacles]

If you're interested in orthopaedic surgery, the most important thing you can do is perform well in your basic science classes and prepare yourself to have a great performance on Step 1. Secondary to those things, starting research in orthopaedic surgery during your first and second years. This will likely be clinical research and will hopefully give you enough exposure to the field to make a more informed decision as you move through medical school.

 

[HybridEarth]

Piggybacking on this thread... What's the average number of manuscript publications held by a student matching into an Ortho program?

 

[TBV]

Piggybacking on this thread... What's the average number of manuscript publications held by a student matching into an Ortho program?

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

I'm not sure the number of pubs is an available number. But if you include presentations with that number it's about 7

 

[TBV]

I'm not sure i'll ever understand the big d*ck for ortho. From my limited experience with it, the lifestyle sucks. I'm not stupid, I get the money argument but even with that...

 

[HybridEarth]

I see what you're saying. For anyone that wants to do surgery though, 60 hour workweeks will probably be the norm. From what I've seen, it's very rewarding to be able to fix debilitating defects/damage, and the patients tend to be significantly happier from the results compared to what I've seen in several other specialties.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'm not sure i'll ever understand the big d*ck for ortho. From my limited experience with it, the lifestyle sucks. I'm not stupid, I get the money argument but even with that...

It's the summer sales of medicine

 

[TBV]

Nah for my money Derm is where it's at

 

[piii]

I looked up the 2014 NRMP pdf of match data...114 pages or something. Very confusing. I tried my best.

How should I read this?

So you can see the average step scores for applicants. You can also see what percentage of applicants with certain scores match. You can see the average number of ECs like papers/presentations that applicants have that match. If you want ortho, your goal is to create a residency profile that matches the successful people in the NRMP data.

Again, as I said, 1) scores: having great grades, getting great step scores, 2) get involved in ortho research, 3) getting honors in your ortho rotations

 

[TBV]

So you can see the average step scores for applicants. You can also see what percentage of applicants with certain scores match. You can see the average number of ECs like papers/presentations that applicants have that match. If you want ortho, your goal is to create a residency profile that matches the successful people in the NRMP data.

Again, as I said, 1) scores: having great grades, getting great step scores, 2) get involved in ortho research, 3) getting honors in your ortho rotations

Really not sure why I was quoted in this but alright thanks for the info

 

[piii]

Really not sure why I was quoted in this but alright thanks for the info

Oops wrong person lol sorry will edit

 

[abluecrab]

Can any current students that do clinical research in ortho or otherwise comment on if they are able to do research during the school year (e.g. chart review/excel work)? 7 pubs/presentations seems like a pretty high goal for one summer and some elective time.

A more general question about matching:
Is matching at one's home program vs in the specialty analogous to getting into your state school vs any school?

 

[Pastamahn]

I'm assuming it wouldn't be held against you or look bad because few people know what they want to go into when they start med school but might as well ask my question all the same. I'm thinking I want to go into some surgical specialty (I know chances are that it will change, but bear with me) but say I start research for neurosurgery and realize I don't really like it and might like ortho more. Does it really matter that I spent a decent amount of time doing neuro research and then changed to ortho research later on? I know having substantive research is important for competitive specialties, but if half the research I do in med school is a different field, does that really matter much?

 

[TBV]

I'm assuming it wouldn't be held against you or look bad because few people know what they want to go into when they start med school but might as well ask my question all the same. I'm thinking I want to go into some surgical specialty (I know chances are that it will change, but bear with me) but say I start research for neurosurgery and realize I don't really like it and might like ortho more. Does it really matter that I spent a decent amount of time doing neuro research and then changed to ortho research later on? I know having substantive research is important for competitive specialties, but if half the research I do in med school is a different field, does that really matter much?

7 figure check> research in the field> any research at all > no research

No they won't hold it against you but obviously if you are already publishing in the field, it will be easier for you to continue to do so, nuances and stuff. Just do whatever interests you at this point.