Osteopathic Derm

[Nat85]

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Does anyone have any insight into how to go about audition rotations for derm? Since you have to do a transitional year, should you audition at derm residencies or at transitional year programs during fall of your 4th year? Also, if one should not match into a derm program after their transitional year, what are the options? Thanks

 

[Deceptacon]

I did some rotations as a third year at programs and the general thought from the residents was to see them towards the end of your 4th year and then try to visit as much as possible during your transitional year. I know that several of them would fly in over christmas break/go to that derm conference AOCD (i think?) or use their electives to get as much face time as possible. Unfortunately at least a few of the residents I talked to had finished residencies prior to their derm residency like family med/IM. i don't know about anyone else but NOTHING is worth doing a family medicine residency.

My experience was that it's more about who you know/who likes you/who kisses up the most.

 

[Zercolops]

I did some rotations as a third year at programs and the general thought from the residents was to see them towards the end of your 4th year and then try to visit as much as possible during your transitional year. I know that several of them would fly in over christmas break/go to that derm conference AOCD (i think?) or use their electives to get as much face time as possible. Unfortunately at least a few of the residents I talked to had finished residencies prior to their derm residency like family med/IM. i don't know about anyone else but NOTHING is worth doing a family medicine residency.

My experience was that it's more about who you know/who likes you/who kisses up the most.

FWIW we had a DO Derm doc come give us a lecture and he too had done a prior FM residency.. Guess its more common then you'd think..

 

[Oxer45]

FWIW we had a DO Derm doc come give us a lecture and he too had done a prior FM residency.. Guess its more common then you'd think..

Some DO places require that you do FP residency at their hospital then complete the derm residency (worth only if you really REALLY like derm).

 

[Zercolops]

Some DO places require that you do FP residency at their hospital then complete the derm residency (worth only if you really REALLY like derm).

Damn, now that's one way to make sure you get committed applicants.. Thanks for the info

 

[Whiskeypunch]

I've heard that about a number of programs. Why is that? What do the derm guys get out of making you do FP first?

 

[Oxer45]

I've heard that about a number of programs. Why is that? What do the derm guys get out of making you do FP first?

The hospital has problem finding FP residents, but no problem finding people who want to do derm. So by making people do FP then Derm, you fill both programs. Also, honestly a FP who does derm probably makes a better resident (knowledge/ experience wise).

 

[Skinceutical]

Also, honestly a FP who does derm probably makes a better resident (knowledge/ experience wise).

Honestly, dermatology requires a fairly different skill set and vocabulary - most FP grads transitioning to derm would essentially be starting from scratch just like the new residents fresh out of internship.

I've interacted with a couple of DO derm residents, all of whom were previously boarded in FP. The impression I've gotten is that a lot of DO derm residencies are based in community private practices, where the residents are essentially used like PAs/NPs, but at a fraction of the cost of hiring a midlevel. Regular residents have to staff every patient with an attending. However, because these guys are board certified physicians (albeit in a different specialty), they can see patients independently, without an attending present, and bill for it. Some of these positions sound more like a money-making scheme for the PD/self-study program than a residency position.

Again, this is just the impression I've gotten from my admittedly limited exposure to the world of DO dermatology; YMMV.

 

[Deceptacon]

Honestly, dermatology requires a fairly different skill set and vocabulary - most FP grads transitioning to derm would essentially be starting from scratch just like the new residents fresh out of internship.

I've interacted with a couple of DO derm residents, all of whom were previously boarded in FP. The impression I've gotten is that a lot of DO derm residencies are based in community private practices, where the residents are essentially used like PAs/NPs, but at a fraction of the cost of hiring a midlevel. Regular residents have to staff every patient with an attending. However, because these guys are board certified physicians (albeit in a different specialty), they can see patients independently, without an attending present, and bill for it. Some of these positions sound more like a money-making scheme for the PD/self-study program than a residency position.

Again, this is just the impression I've gotten from my admittedly limited exposure to the world of DO dermatology; YMMV.

it's basically what you say up there but with didactics/journal club/grand rounds thrown in. there is no doubt that the practice is benefiting financially for having residents. the two programs i visited were privately funded.

 

[polkadoctor]

I posted this in the pre-osteopathic forum but wanted to add it to this thread as well:

does anyone have a rough idea which programs require a FM/IM residency prior to derm?

 

[donkeykong1]

I posted this in the pre-osteopathic forum but wanted to add it to this thread as well:

does anyone have a rough idea which programs require a FM/IM residency prior to derm?

OUHCOM's Summa Western Reserve in Ohio, TouroCOM's St. Johns in NY, Western U's, and maybe one of Nova's

 

[polkadoctor]

OUHCOM's Summa Western Reserve in Ohio, TouroCOM's St. Johns in NY, Western U's, and maybe one of Nova's

Western too?! Don't they already not pay the derm residents? On top of that, they're expected to do a family med residency as well? 😱

 

[DwightSchruteDO]

TouroCOM is starting another Derm residency in NJ in 2013 and the program director said that it would be just a 3-4 year derm residency without a FM/IM requirement.

 

[MoskD]

You should do auditions during 4th year AND transitional. If you don't get in, you can do research and reapply.

 

[polkadoctor]

You should do auditions during 4th year AND transitional. If you don't get in, you can do research and reapply.

I'm not familiar with transitional year but what's the general policy about taking time off to do auditions and interviews? Is it frowned upon and would certain programs hurt my chances by not excusing me?

 

[belfort226]

Really good advice in this thread. However, does anyone know why DO Derm residencies aren't linked like their MD counterparts? To the best of my knowledge, one can match into Plastics, Optho, Ortho, etc. right out of medical school. I assume the funded residencies (Largo, MSU, etc.) are funded by Medicare. Never really understood why DO students have to wait an extra year to apply.

 

[necronomicon]

Really good advice in this thread. However, does anyone know why DO Derm residencies aren't linked like their MD counterparts? To the best of my knowledge, one can match into Plastics, Optho, Ortho, etc. right out of medical school. I assume the funded residencies (Largo, MSU, etc.) are funded by Medicare. Never really understood why DO students have to wait an extra year to apply.

I don't know this for fact, but I always assumed it was because Derm is one of the shorter residencies, so they want to get an extra year out of residents (same reason they do the FP-Derm programs). I have also wondered this question, though.

 

[acesup123]

Palm Beach hospital has an osteopathic derm fellowship for internal med. I never knew IM had derm fellowships. Is this the same training as a derm residency?

 

[Soccer171983]

Some places with fellowships take the salary of one fellow and split it 3 or 4 ways to increase number of residents they can take. Many programs have pyramid type systems in place. Best to know about each program before accepting IM to get to the derm fellowship.

 

[itsscience606]

Hey does anybody know in the DO derm world if you "have" to do a TRI to be accepted into a derm residency? I really want to do derm but I feel like everybody trying to do derm better have a back up plan. My back up is Internal Medicine and I was wondering if you could match into an IM program and then during my first year apply to Derm? or does it have to be a traditional rotating internship?

 

[Soccer171983]

I know some programs in fl that require you to complete the IM residency first and then you go into there derm fellowship.

 

[itsscience606]

What about as far as the Traditional Rotating internship goes... Should you do audition interviews to get those spots or just interview there?

 

[Soccer171983]

I don't want to give the wrong advice. I can tell you that I know several people who have gotten tri's without audition rotations. If your a strong enough candidate to get a ROADS residency, you will get a tri with a high likelihood.

 

[peppy]

Hey does anybody know in the DO derm world if you "have" to do a TRI to be accepted into a derm residency? I really want to do derm but I feel like everybody trying to do derm better have a back up plan. My back up is Internal Medicine and I was wondering if you could match into an IM program and then during my first year apply to Derm? or does it have to be a traditional rotating internship?

Keep in mind that switching out of a categorical program is not alway easy, depending on how understanding your program's leadership is. It's possible that the IM program would be angry to find out that you "used them as a backup" and make things difficult for you in trying to switch. You should probably ask around to find out what other people in DO Derm did, but from my experiences of the politics of residency (though not in derm), I would think the safer route would be to do the TRI and then hope to get credit for it in an IM or FM program if you end up not matching to derm.

 

[polkadoctor]

anyone know how many people apply to DO derm spots each year?

 

[necronomicon]

anyone know how many people apply to DO derm spots each year?

I don't have an actual answer for you, but would think that the AOA would have a list similar to the ACGME for the number of spots/applicants/etc.

If not, you can go here: http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...essionid=f030c18836e14932f5c05e248105f6156302

This shows all of the derm spots and you can see the number available (I know it doesn't help quantify how "competitive" the spots are, but it's better than nothing).

 

[acesup123]

I don't have an actual answer for you, but would think that the AOA would have a list similar to the ACGME for the number of spots/applicants/etc.

If not, you can go here: http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...essionid=f030c18836e14932f5c05e248105f6156302

This shows all of the derm spots and you can see the number available (I know it doesn't help quantify how "competitive" the spots are, but it's better than nothing).

That's actually a lot more spots than I thought there would be. Looking at that site, derm has the most locations compared to the other ROAD specialties. I didn't look at the number of spots per location though.

 

[polkadoctor]

Does anyone know how much emphasis is placed on COMLEX? I know the cut off to be competitive is around 600 but I was wondering how much it is weighed in the grand scheme of things.

Currently a freaked out 2nd year! haha.

 

[necronomicon]

Does anyone know how much emphasis is placed on COMLEX? I know the cut off to be competitive is around 600 but I was wondering how much it is weighed in the grand scheme of things.

Currently a freaked out 2nd year! haha.

This might have the info you are looking for; it was just linked to me in another thread in the pre-osteo forum:

http://data.aacom.org/media/DO_GME_match_2009.pdf

 

[polkadoctor]

seems like all the fields range from 400-800... which doesn't tell much. lol.. unless it's true that DO residency programs don't put as much emphasis on the board scores?