Osteopathic GS Competitiveness

[dreambig2night]

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Hi everyone,

Here is another how competitive am I thread:
Id like to know how competitive I am for GS interviews with a 486 on COMLEX Step 1, especially programs on the East Coast.
I plan on only doing the Osteopathic match.
My Class rank is in the Lower Third, unfortunately. I have had good extra curricular involvment with Leadership positions in student organizations, SGA involvment.
I plan on getting a LOR at the end of my rotation from a reputed GS, albeit local. I am doing my clerkship in a small community hospital.
I plan on studying my butt off for Step 2, but lets say I get a 500 am I still in contention?
I scheduled one audition rotation for my 4th year.

How can I really shine from now on?

Thank you!

 

[Krazykritter]

I can't specifically speak to East Coast programs, but in general, you are going to have an uphill battle. If you haven't rotated at a program, most places are going to go through your application & look for any red flags. A lower than the national average COMLEX 1 score is somewhat of a strike against you, as is your class rank in the lower third.

The key for you is the fact that osteopathic programs tend to put a lot of weight on your performance during your audition rotation. Your only choice is to schedule as many of these as your school will let you. Pick out programs you think you will be competitive at & focus on getting a rotation there & then outperforming your peers while being a generally likable person. You also need to make you intent known to the PD at each program you rotate at so that they can pay attention to you. If the PD sees/hears that you are working your butt off & are smarter than your board scores show...you probably have a foot in the door for an interview.

I have to run, but I would be happy to try to answer any more questions by PM.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

A 500 on Level 2 isn't going to show anyone anything. Thats 14 points above your Level 1. Hardly an improvement.

As above, your best bet is to rotate at as many programs as you can. One audition rotation is simply NOT going to cut it.

Its been my experience, having just gone through the match, that extracurriculars don't carry much weight for osteopathic surgery/surgical subspecialties.

I hate to be Debbie Downer, but you need to get into as many programs as you can. If that means that you do rotations during your vacation or your Xmas break, then, unfortunately thats the way it has to be.

Even if you got a 650 on Level 1, Id probably tell you one audition still isn't enough.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

And as to how you can really shine? Perhaps pick up a copy of Surgical Recall from the library and start studying it. Perhaps you could also read Lawrence's Essentials of General Surgery.

 

[Krazykritter]

And as to how you can really shine? Perhaps pick up a copy of Surgical Recall from the library and start studying it. Perhaps you could also read Lawrence's Essentials of General Surgery.

I think that just knowing the basics in these books is an okay way to show that you are at least proficient in the knowledge required, but I thinking shining requires more than just knowledge (other current residents can correct me if you don't agree).

To really shine I think you have to first have the knowledge, but almost more importantly show that you can be a valuable member of the team. If that means prerounding or doing whatever you have to do to know every patient on your service so that you can discuss any changes w/ your residents/attendings, then that's what you have to do. Come early, stay late to do extra cases that are uncovered by students. On top of that, if there are M3 students on the service, you should do what you can to try to help the third years fill a role. If you have downtime, teach them proper hand ties or if the opportunity arises, take a willing third year to teach them how to drop an NGT or other floor procedure if they've never done it before.

You are really going to have to go above & beyond while being someone who is generally cool to be around. Most interested fourth years will have a solid grasp of Surgical Recall & some topics in Lawrence, in addition to that knowledge, it would be great to be able to discuss articles on pathology or a procedure if the opportunity arises. Basically, it is just taking what a solid fourth year what would do & go beyond that without being a douche (you know how some people come off douche-y when they are trying to impress people? Don't do that).

 

[dreambig2night]

My Plan:

1. Study butt off for Step 2. Im not the best test taker...but Ill give it my best. What Step II score should I shoot for, considering I have a Step I of 486?
2. Surgery Recall
3. Lawrence Essentials of Surgery
4. Try to be an outstanding student on audition rotations. Ive never put an NG tube in yet....even though I did an ER rotation...(gulp).

Thank you all!

 

[GregsAnatomy]

Hi everyone,

Here is another how competitive am I thread:
Id like to know how competitive I am for GS interviews with a 486 on COMLEX Step 1, especially programs on the East Coast.
I plan on only doing the Osteopathic match.
My Class rank is in the Lower Third, unfortunately. I have had good extra curricular involvment with Leadership positions in student organizations, SGA involvment.
I plan on getting a LOR at the end of my rotation from a reputed GS, albeit local. I am doing my clerkship in a small community hospital.
I plan on studying my butt off for Step 2, but lets say I get a 500 am I still in contention?
I scheduled one audition rotation for my 4th year.

How can I really shine from now on?

Thank you!

Your stats aren't that different from what mine were. However, it will be ESSENTIAL that you do audition rotations at as many programs as possible. In the osteopathic world, having a successful audition and getting to know the residents and attendings is probably the most important factor in getting ranked at a program. Do what you can to rearrange you schedule so you rotate at as many programs as possible between July and December, work your butt off, arrive early and stay late every day. Good luck!

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

You aren't very competitive. Performing marginally in your clinical years (and confirming it with a subpar Step 1) implies that you have a poor fund of knowledge. They only way to overcome this is to do significantly better on Step 2 and read regularly for the rest of your life. I would suggest reading an hour a night from Lawrence until your surgery rotations(s).

No one will care that you were involved in whatever club you were the treasurer of. Pretty much everyone was involved in something, and it does not make you stand out.

In short, do not delude yourself into thinking that you are a strong applicant.


Got it?





Now for the good news: one you accept that your paper application looks pretty bad, you can move on to the realization that you can control what kind of 4th year student you'll be. Do 3-4 audition rotations, arrive earlier/stay later than everyone, scrub everything, always volunteer for consults, be easy to get along with, etc.

If you can do those things, you'll probably land a spot.

One more thing: you're application is not strong enough to focus on a particular region of the country. You need to apply to every AOA program, interview at every one you possibly can. One of the most common mistakes of the unmatched applicant is applying to too few programs.

Good luck.

 

[dreambig2night]

You aren't very competitive. Performing marginally in your clinical years (and confirming it with a subpar Step 1) implies that you have a poor fund of knowledge. They only way to overcome this is to do significantly better on Step 2 and read regularly for the rest of your life. I would suggest reading an hour a night from Lawrence until your surgery rotations(s).

No one will care that you were involved in whatever club you were the treasurer of. Pretty much everyone was involved in something, and it does not make you stand out.

In short, do not delude yourself into thinking that you are a strong applicant.


Got it?





Now for the good news: one you accept that your paper application looks pretty bad, you can move on to the realization that you can control what kind of 4th year student you'll be. Do 3-4 audition rotations, arrive earlier/stay later than everyone, scrub everything, always volunteer for consults, be easy to get along with, etc.

If you can do those things, you'll probably land a spot.

One more thing: you're application is not strong enough to focus on a particular region of the country. You need to apply to every AOA program, interview at every one you possibly can. One of the most common mistakes of the unmatched applicant is applying to too few programs.

Good luck.

Got it. I really Got it before but I got it again. I know Im weaker than the average GS applicant.
Im already looking into getting Lawrence. Thanks!
Would you recommend Clinical Pathophysiology Made Ridiculously Simple as a study guide to enhance my knowledge base before taking Step 2?
I know I can do several questions in USMLE WORLD, and I plan on, but I dont know if doing repeated questions will make up for my knowledge deficit.

thanks!

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

Got it. I really Got it before but I got it again. I know Im weaker than the average GS applicant.

Good. Like GI Joe says, knowing is half the battle. Now you can move on and develop into a stellar 4th year.

Someone else already mentioned this, but I think the most critical factor in matching for AOA GS is rotating and performing well. Many places simply will not interview you if you don't rotate there.

Im already looking into getting Lawrence. Thanks!
Would you recommend Clinical Pathophysiology Made Ridiculously Simple as a study guide to enhance my knowledge base before taking Step 2?
I know I can do several questions in USMLE WORLD, and I plan on, but I dont know if doing repeated questions will make up for my knowledge deficit.

thanks!

I've never read that book. In my time, I used Boards and Wards. I don't know what the most highly regarded books are for Step 2 nowadays. If I were you, I would find on reputable Step 2 book, and memorize it. Don't waste time using multiple sources, just absolutely destroy one good book.

Questions are all fine and good, but I would focus on a good board review book first.

 

[dreambig2night]

Considering I have a less than average Step 1 Score.

Would anyone recommend taking Step 2 CK early? Is mid-July early or late?

Should I prepone/postpone the exam?

thanks!

 

[dreambig2night]

Considering I have a less than average Step 1 Score.

Would anyone recommend taking Step 2 CK early? Is mid-July early or late?

Should I prepone/postpone the exam?

thanks!

Hellloooo....anybody there? I wish someone would give me a response.

 

[Krazykritter]

IMO, you should definitely take COMLEX 2-CE early. You need to shoot for at least 1 SD above the mean to be able to show improvement & that your clinical knowledge is where it should be. Schedule it during an easy rotation or take at least 2 weeks off to study for it if you are serious about doing well. While it's true that your rotations are the best study material for Step 2, you can't afford to just pass w/ only what you know.


Taking Step 2 CK (USMLE) at all in your case is a waste of time & money. You said you are not applying allopathically so don't waste your money.

 

[LovelyRita]

IMO, you should definitely take COMLEX 2-CE early. You need to shoot for at least 1 SD above the mean to be able to show improvement & that your clinical knowledge is where it should be. Schedule it during an easy rotation or take at least 2 weeks off to study for it if you are serious about doing well. While it's true that your rotations are the best study material for Step 2, you can't afford to just pass w/ only what you know.


Taking Step 2 CK (USMLE) at all in your case is a waste of time & money. You said you are not applying allopathically so don't waste your money.

I 2nd this.

 

[dreambig2night]

I 2nd this.

Thank you for the replies.

I got honors in my GS rotation. Im also asking my preceptor to write a LOR.

Ill be taking my COMLEX II in the second week of July. I hope this is early enough. Is it?

Im gonna work hard for a high score(>600), but dont know how well ill do...especially, when people talk about scores in COMLEX II being similar to COMLEX I on an average. Any suggestion on topics to focus for high yield?...I guess I should ask this on the step II forum.

 

[Krazykritter]

It's so hard to guess what is going to be on your COMLEX now that everything is randomized on the computer.

I had tons of OB, lots of Peds, a lot of medicine (of course), very very very few surgery questions. EKG's on there were straight forward if you could see the COMLEX-standard-issue crappy images. OMM is a toss-up. I had some ridiculous Chapman points & cranial that I would never study for & don't give a flying f$ck if I miss all those questions on Step III b/c learning that hokey bull**** is a waste of time.

I wouldn't put much stock in what others say about scores. I was always more clinically minded & b/c of this I did significantly better on USMLE/COMLEX 2 than on Step I. You get out of COMLEX 2 what you put into third year rotations & any studying you do beforehand.

 

[Doctor Bob]

I had some ridiculous Chapman points & cranial that I would never study for & don't give a flying f$ck if I miss all those questions on Step III b/c learning that hokey bull**** is a waste of time.

But it is a good bunch of stuff to study if you're like the OP and looking to quickly bump up your COMLEX II score.

Is it useful clinically? That's a personal decision.
Is it way over represented on COMLEX II for the amount of material you need to study? Yes. By reviewing Chapman's points and viscerosomatic reflexes you can pick up an extra 10-15 questions pretty easily.

 

[TomC727]

I think it is important to do well on step 1, but I think it is even more important to work your ass off on your surgery rotation. If the residents see this, like I do, then that can sometimes make up for a subpar step 1 score. If you have a basic understanding of surgery issues for your level and not a spectactular level, I think that is also fine, at least with me. I think the most important thing that gets noticed is that you will work your ass off, and how well you work with the team. You can have a 700 on your COMLEX, but if you don't get along with the team and aren't a hard worker, the residents see this, and surprisingly, we give imput to the higher uppers when it comes to resident matching.

1)Do a bunch of audition rotations
2)Do well on step 2
3)Work hard, show your face, make it well known you want to do surgery.
4)Get good letters of rec from attendings that you know well and have worked with.

Just for example. I knew the students who rotated on my service who worked their ass off and wanted to do surgery, fit in well with the team, and had a basic understanding of surgery at a med student level, so when the time comes to give input on future residents, I know the good ones from the ones that are not. I didn't know what their board scores were and didn't care.

Show your face and work hard, things will work out.