Osteopathic vs Chiropractic muskuloskeletal manipulation

[bravotwozero]

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Are there any significant differences between the two, apart from the fact that Chiropractors largely deal with the spine?

 

[medicine1]

http://innerself.com/Health/discovering_osteopathy_part_2.htm

Osteopathic-Musculoskeletal (there are three types of muscle tissue: cardiac, smooth, and skeletal...musculoskeletal system pertains to the muscles and skeleton) vs Chiropractic-Spinal (the vertebral column, its alignment, and associated nerves).

 

[macman]

I believe this topic has been well covered in the past on this forum, I encourage the OP to do a topic search. Thanks....

 

[dcdo]

It's the same stuff- Been there, done that.

 

[dcratamt]

It's the same stuff- Been there, done that.

Same stuff? Hahahahahaha. 😱

 

[Shodddy18]

In terms of manual medicine, there is a lot of overlap between the two professions. There is a chiropractor in my class and he agrees. Since Chiros deal mostly w/ the spine, they gain much more proficiency here than most Osteo's. That is not to say that many Osteos dont gain the same proficiency.

 

[dcratamt]

In terms of manual medicine, there is a lot of overlap between the two professions. There is a chiropractor in my class and he agrees. Since Chiros deal mostly w/ the spine, they gain much more proficiency here than most Osteo's. That is not to say that many Osteos dont gain the same proficiency.

The overlap btw the two stops at high velocity. 99.9% of chiros do nothing but high velocity to one area; the spine. You are correct about the proficiency, if proficiency is measured by the chiros ability to make a popping noise. Chiropractic manipulation tends to be very non-specific. They push on an area of the spine till they get a pop. There is no positional diagnosis, they don't even specify what particular vertebrae they are manipulating many times. They just push on an "area" that feels tight. Problem is that many times you get the "pop" from the hypermobile segment while the tight vertebrae remains restricted. The chiro does not know which segment was mobilized however because they do not do joint mobility testing or positional diagnosis. Furthermore, if the patients problem is in the extremities or the cranium then cracking their back ain't gonna cut it. This is not a dump on chiropractors cause i do know some who practice a wide range of Osteopathic techniques. However it is a dump on the lack of sensitivity, palpatory skill, specificity of majority of chiros. And even high velocity is not necessarily done the same between Chiros and DO's. High velocity can be traumatic if not done against the proper endfeel and using the proper vector. Vector and endfeel prolly two other words your chiro classmate didn't use much. In short if your chiro buddy is not learning a lot in your OPP class then something is wrong. Good luck with the studies and on your Derm test tomorrow.

 

[dcdo]

I beg to differ. In DC school I learned high velocity, muscle energy, positional analysis, rehab, etc., etc., ad nauseum. The only thing I learned differently in DO school was cranial, which I don't put too much stock into anyway. Not that I'm too keen on the chiropractic profession, but the education(at least where I went)was more comprehensive than you might think.

 

[tom26]

DCDO talks about all the stuff he/she learned in DC school. Well, I know that you lack some good perspective on this because of your list of things you learned in DC school. You say you learned a bunch of stuff including rehab. This makes me laugh because as a doctor of physical therapy I have spent years learning rehab where as many dc's take one or two 3-credit classes and have "learned'' rehab. As a dc you know about as much about rehab as you do about OMM. Similarity with chiro manip and OMM? Give me a break!!!!

 

[Allygator89]

DCDO talks about all the stuff he/she learned in DC school. Well, I know that you lack some good perspective on this because of your list of things you learned in DC school. You say you learned a bunch of stuff including rehab. This makes me laugh because as a doctor of physical therapy I have spent years learning rehab where as many dc's take one or two 3-credit classes and have "learned'' rehab. As a dc you know about as much about rehab as you do about OMM. Similarity with chiro manip and OMM? Give me a break!!!!

Save your arguments, whatever side you are on. It isn't worth your breath or the space it takes to post.

 

[dcratamt]

I beg to differ. In DC school I learned high velocity, muscle energy, positional analysis, rehab, etc., etc., ad nauseum. The only thing I learned differently in DO school was cranial, which I don't put too much stock into anyway. Not that I'm too keen on the chiropractic profession, but the education(at least where I went)was more comprehensive than you might think.

Well your chiro school sounds very well rounded, but it takes away one of the excuses that i used to have for chiros lack of ability; they were never taught other techniques. I guess chiros learn a lot of techniques but they just never use them in clinical practice. I admit it is difficult to see 60 pts a day if you don't just do high velocity. The vast, vast majority of chiro pts walk into the office and when they see the chiro they get five to ten mins of high velocity to the spine and then the session is over. Come on you have to admit it. Of all the chiros i have seen or been treated by; only high velocity. Of all the pts i have seen who go to chiros they always say the same thing; he cracked my neck and/or back. I have never seen a chiro test or treat ribs, fibular head, tibia, foot or any other extremities, so to say that chiropractic care and Osteopathic care are the same thing is really just misleading folks who want to know what a DO does. Please don't take this post as an attack, and if i am completely off the mark let me know, but if i am pretty accurate then just agree.

 

[EricH]

Chiros can vary widely. My Chiro, who got me started thinking about healthcare as a career, stopped using high velocity. He practices low velocity and uses an actuator to effect specific movement only where he diagnoses problems. He schedules only 4 patients an hour. He will adjust extremeties, ribs and cranial. Getting off his table I feel very well adjusted.

Of course I have been to other chiros and he is an exception.

 

[Shodddy18]

well regardless of what they do and dont do, most of them are fantastic. The one in my school is one of the best at OMT. He knew all the spine stuff and did well with everthing else... maybe his advanced palpatory skills? Anyways, no need to get mean, all of the professions... (DO, DC, PT, OT etc) have their niche to fill. 😉

 

[yourworstnightmare]

well regardless of what they do and dont do, most of them are fantastic. The one in my school is one of the best at OMT. He knew all the spine stuff and did well with everthing else... maybe his advanced palpatory skills? Anyways, no need to get mean, all of the professions... (DO, DC, PT, OT etc) have their niche to fill. 😉

Very kind shoddy18.
I cannot speak for differences between DCs and DOs, but from what I understand DOs in school may not focus on OMT as much a DCs focus on CMT. Understanding that only from a DO friend. I would say that the patients I see vary from facet syndrome to radicular issues by direct nerve root involvement. I do HVLA adjusting as well as disc decompression, through flexion distraction maneuvers.

YWNM 😉

 

[yourworstnightmare]

DCRATAMT said:

"...I have never seen a chiro test or treat ribs, fibular head, tibia, foot or any other extremities, so to say that chiropractic care and Osteopathic care are the same thing is really just misleading folks who want to know what a DO does."

Not sure what you mean by test or treat? I test and treat fairly regularly costochondritis, and treat extremities by adjusting. It can be very effective in correcting gait problems regarding the feet and breathing issues pertaining the rib head displacement.

YWNM 😉

 

[BackTalk]

DCDO talks about all the stuff he/she learned in DC school. Well, I know that you lack some good perspective on this because of your list of things you learned in DC school. You say you learned a bunch of stuff including rehab. This makes me laugh because as a doctor of physical therapy I have spent years learning rehab where as many dc's take one or two 3-credit classes and have "learned'' rehab. As a dc you know about as much about rehab as you do about OMM. Similarity with chiro manip and OMM? Give me a break!!!!

What makes me laugh is when physical therapists think they are qualified to perform manipulation after taking a weekend seminar.

 

[PublicHealth]

DCDO talks about all the stuff he/she learned in DC school. Well, I know that you lack some good perspective on this because of your list of things you learned in DC school. You say you learned a bunch of stuff including rehab. This makes me laugh because as a doctor of physical therapy I have spent years learning rehab where as many dc's take one or two 3-credit classes and have "learned'' rehab. As a dc you know about as much about rehab as you do about OMM. Similarity with chiro manip and OMM? Give me a break!!!!

Turf war...here we go again. 🙄

Compare the curricula (these are samples):

DC: http://www.bridgeport.edu/pages/2858.asp
DPT: http://dukehealth1.org/dpt/courses.asp

Frankly, I think the main difference is in clinical emphases of the two programs. Personally, I know of several DCs who are primarily "rehab docs" with PTs, OTs, and massage therapists on staff, as well as several DPTs who do spinal manipulations. That said, PTs spend MUCH more time pushing and pulling than do DCs, who tend to perform adjustments and then refer to staff PTs and other personnel for rehab-related activities.

 

[dcratamt]

DCRATAMT said:


Not sure what you mean by test or treat? I test and treat fairly regularly costochondritis, and treat extremities by adjusting. It can be very effective in correcting gait problems regarding the feet and breathing issues pertaining the rib head displacement.

YWNM 😉

By test i just mean motion test/palpate to find out if the rib is stuck in exhalation/inhalation or if it is subluxed or torsioned. If you don't know how the rib is positioned then how can you treat it properly or retest to see if the treatment worked? YWNM do you use muscle energy, functional tech, myofascial release, cranial tech, visceral manipulation? And do you think that many of your colleagues do? Would you say that osteopathic technique and chiropractic are the same thing? Thanks

 

[yourworstnightmare]

dcratamt:

By test i just mean motion test/palpate to find out if the rib is stuck in exhalation/inhalation or if it is subluxed or torsioned.

Our palpation would include determining malposition of the rib whether posterior or anterior and depending on which one, would determine position and direction taken for adjustment and whether adjusted on inspiration or expiration. In the case of costal chondritis they are failry easy to manage.

If you don't know how the rib is positioned then how can you treat it properly or retest to see if the treatment worked?

Agree, but testing and palpating determines such.

YWNM do you use muscle energy, functional tech, myofascial release, cranial tech, visceral manipulation?

I personally only use myofascial techniques of those you've listed. I believe it was the only one taught in my curriculm, if I recall. It works very well adjunct to some adjusting.

And do you think that many of your colleagues do?

There are techniques taught at seminars which may not reflect mainstream profession; but I suspect that the case in many professions. There are some contraversial techniques which I do not subscribe to, personally.

Would you say that osteopathic technique and chiropractic are the same thing? Thanks

I have not gone to osteopathic school, therefore I can only surmize what I have learned through DO friends. From them, I have deduced that I probably do more manipulaiton than they do. They are involved in more prescription and surgical procedures and one DO friend does nothing but ortho work. I personally was taught a few of the osteopathic maneuvers of manipulation and found them to be very useful which I apply daily. From a personal perspective I find the chiropractic adjusting to be more specific; using shorter levers and not involving as much long axial torquing. Have gone to chiropractic school?

YWNM 😉

 

[tom26]

BackTalk said "What makes me laugh is when physical therapists think they are qualified to perform manipulation after taking a weekend seminar. "

I say "What makes me want to cry are the patients that come to my PT practice with more pain because the DC with all his education has made their joints hypermobile." 🙁

 

[rustedcj7]

BackTalk said "What makes me laugh is when physical therapists think they are qualified to perform manipulation after taking a weekend seminar. "

I say "What makes me want to cry is the patients that come to my PT practice with more pain because the DC with all their education have made their joints hypermobile." 🙁

I think you guys should take this debate someplace else.

 

[rooster]

Tom26-
Perhaps, you have, in your enthusiasm to proclaim to the world that you are a "Doctor of Physical Therapy", lost site of the subject of this thread---------- "Osteopathic vs Chiropractic muskuloskeletal manipulation ". I don't see PT (or in your case,--"Doctor of Physical Therapy") the subject this thread topic. Your insecure need to diminish DCs. is quite contrite. Unless you have been professionally trained at DC or DO school, your input just appears to be "small man". From my inquiries, it only takes 15 online credits to obtain a tDPT- don't get too full of yourself, ---BTW- a DPT/ tDPT"s scope is no greater than a PT's.

Let me leave you with this: "Blowing out someone else's candle, does not make your's glow brighter".

And if you think otherwise-----------DCs see beacoup PT failures/ineptness.

NOW: back to topic: DO/DC manipulation---------------

 

[rescuetomm]

The most fun I have reading these threads is when somebody in their mid to lower twenties says "in my experiece." yah you've seen maybe two to three DCs and now you are and expert on how they all practice and treat their patients with different treatments. Well in my home town there were two DOs and neither one of them used omm. So I guess no DOs use OMM because my vast experience in my little world said they didn't. Several older Physicians have told me that one of the most important thing to remember is that you don't and can't know everything. To think you do is not only arrogant but not real safe for your patients. Every DC that I've been treated by adjusted ribs and extremities.Do they all? No. I guess the post that made me laugh the most was the one that said DCs don't know what level they are treating and they are just getting pops from hypermobile segment. DCs are taught to find the restriction in rom, and with static and motion palpation (along with orthopedic tests)the same as DOs and treat as specifically as possible. Maybe you have had contact with a DC who treats like that but making a statement that they all treat this way is just ignorant. After ten years as a DC and after completing my first year at DMU I have found I like things about each but niether is perfect. I'm not purposefully flaming anyone of you. It just comes down to experience and what works best for your patients. Be cafeful bashing any profession in front of your patients. If the patient has seen a different provider, and been happy with their care you will look like an ass when you start putting them down. Anyway I'm on my 2nd day of summer vacation I have better things do be doing than posting.


rescuetomm
MSII DMU
Palmer College 1995
FF/Emt-I

 

[DocGina]

Try this thread to find a more detailed description of OMM versus chiropractic technique...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2345759#post2345759

 

[LovelyRita]

muskuloskeletal

come on. 🙄

 

[rooster]

rescuetomm posts:

>>" Be cafeful bashing any profession in front of your patients. If the patient has seen a different provider, and been happy with their care you will look like an ass when you start putting them down."<<

Amen!! When patients have come to me with a history with another provider that they have been happy with-------I will say "Great!" "If that has worked for you, I'll try to replicate your successful treatment as closely has possible". Then I'll do a work-up, and if I want to change, add, or modify what has been historically successful, I will explain to them why. Taking cheapshots at another provider is an extremely insecure thing to do.

 

[tom26]

rescuetomm posts:

>>" Be cafeful bashing any profession in front of your patients. If the patient has seen a different provider, and been happy with their care you will look like an ass when you start putting them down."<<

Amen!! ... Taking cheapshots at another provider is an extremely insecure thing to do.

I agree with you! Please refer to your post at the top of the page about me!

 

[yourworstnightmare]

Try this thread to find a more detailed description of OMM versus chiropractic technique...

CMT is quite specific in most cases. Rather than using a long lever axis, the adjustment is performed by hand contact, using a short lever. While endplay is taken out of the joint just prior to the adjustment, the joint is not extended all that far. As for the "popping", that is an audible more of a side effect and not especially the goal of the CMT. Many times CMT can be performed without an audible. Especially with flexion distraction, where there is very little audible activity at all. As for the diversity in techniques, there are many chiropractic techniques employing a vast number of contact points and a very diverse combination of maneuvers. There are probably over a dozen mainstream techniques; the most widely used being diversified. Diversified techniques employ a variety of maneuvers to the spine & pelvis, extremities and many are soft tissue techniques in application. Othere techniques ae employed to address disc issues. Many times HNP responds very well to flexion technique, thus avoiding invasive surgery.


YWNM 😉