OT: Would you report a friend for cheating? I have finally found the answer!

[jackal head]

Official Answer: Yes

Real Answer: No

By reporting a friend for cheating, you are most likely losing a friend and therefore ultimatley hurting yourself.

I value myself more than I value the school. It therefore makes no sense for me to do harm to my social connections for the sake of maintaining integrity.

I can only maintain my own integrity. It is the job of the proctors to ensure that no one else is cheating. If I'm able to catch my friend cheating while writing the exam, how many other people could be cheating as well?

Furthermore, any risk to future patients is highly remote and too insignificant to be worth considering. Unless the friend does this regularly and is not learning anything.


I always knew the official answer to this question was Yes but in reality I knew I wouldn't do it. This incongruence bothered me and I tried to justifiy it to myself why I should report a friend if I caught him/her cheating.

I've seen people on here who believe they are taking the moral high ground by reporting a friend. People of that nature have only showed that they've given away the last bit of humanity they have left.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[mandydp6]

Official Answer: Yes

Real Answer: No

By reporting a friend for cheating, you are most likely losing a friend and therefore ultimatley hurting yourself.

I value myself more than I value the school. It therefore makes no sense for me to do harm to my social connections for the sake of maintaining integrity.

I can only maintain my own integrity. It is the job of the proctors to ensure that no one else is cheating. If I'm able to catch my friend cheating while writing the exam, how many other people could be cheating as well?

Furthermore, any risk to future patients is highly remote and too insignificant to be worth considering. Unless the friend does this regularly and is not
learning anything.

...trying to figure out point of thread...😕

 

[IwantPharmD]

...trying to figure out point of thread...😕

I hope this is never an interview question. I don't know what I would say to an interviewer, but in real life I would definitely not report my friend for cheating- I probbaly wouldn't report a total stranger in my class either. Nope I would not.

 

[CubanGator]

I hope this is never an interview question. I don't know what I would say to an interviewer, but in real life I would definitely not report my friend for cheating- I probbaly wouldn't report a total stranger in my class either. Nope I would not.

BE YOURSELF! IM SURE THEY WANT TO KNOW YOU, SO TELL THEM WHAT THE THINK AND WHAT YOU VALUE THE MOST! ..... STAND OUT FROM THE REST! 😎

 

[pharm B]

One of our professors says it's his favorite question to ask. He likes to see how the person maps their way through the treacherous territory between the black and white on this issue.

 

[jackal head]

BE YOURSELF! IM SURE THEY WANT TO KNOW YOU, SO TELL THEM WHAT THE THINK AND WHAT YOU VALUE THE MOST! ..... STAND OUT FROM THE REST! 😎

they don't have interviews just to get to know you...

it's a screening process, just like your GPA and PCAT

although there may be multiple "right" answers, that does not mean there aren't any "wrong" answers

ie "I want to be a pharmacists cause it's an easy job and I'll be rich!"

if you say that you will report your friend, that's easy to defend, you're just being a good little sheep, they can't really say much about that

plus by their standards, it's a show of moral integrity

if you say you wouldn't, then you need a much more elaborate answer and you need to be more careful how you say it, maybe my honest answer would actually work if it's judged by an honest and intelligent person but why take that risk?

 

[Dave4468]

So if you were asked this question, would you say your answer or the "official answer"? I think you put it together pretty nicely. To me, the way you answered the question reflects that you still uphold integrity while also thinking realistically. You also sound very genuine.

My answer is "no" to this question as well but I have slightly different reasoning.

 

[Purkinjeman]

I'm pretty fascinated by this topic as I believe this moral dilemma says a lot about both a person's core values and his/her moral reasoning process. Sorry to wake up a dead thread but this subject has become more relevant for me lately.

Jackal Head I disagree with your reasoning. I think you simplify the topic too much by distorting or ignoring legitimate reasons for why you'd be obligated to report.

Viewing half a dozen or so threads, I've noticed that the vast majority of the SDN users are strongly against turning in a cheater (including strangers...not that it should really matter on principle). I don't have the figures but I'd guess >90% would look the other way. I'll be honest, I'm a little disappointed.

I've noticed a trend where people (I'm not talking about Jackal Head anymore) who try to defend the "not reporting" option tend to:

1) Make optimistic and ameliorating assumptions about the future impact of the academic dishonesty in question and/or the "system's" (aka i guess Karma's) ability to make cheating "catch up" with the cheater w/o hurting a patient.

2) Demonize "snitches," and distort their rationale for reporting...i.e. they'd do it b/c they are heartless outcasts / self-righteous meddlers / ambitious gunners.

3) trivialize the concept of professionalism and duty.

I think these assumptions, while palatable, are also derived from lazy thinking. This topic is more nuanced than many people give it credit for. I'd love to hear some other opinions, even if they are violent disagreements.

Official Answer: Yes

Real Answer: No

By reporting a friend for cheating, you are most likely losing a friend and therefore ultimatley hurting yourself.

I value myself more than I value the school. It therefore makes no sense for me to do harm to my social connections for the sake of maintaining integrity.

I can only maintain my own integrity. It is the job of the proctors to ensure that no one else is cheating. If I'm able to catch my friend cheating while writing the exam, how many other people could be cheating as well?

Furthermore, any risk to future patients is highly remote and too insignificant to be worth considering. Unless the friend does this regularly and is not learning anything.


I always knew the official answer to this question was Yes but in reality I knew I wouldn't do it. This incongruence bothered me and I tried to justifiy it to myself why I should report a friend if I caught him/her cheating.

I've seen people on here who believe they are taking the moral high ground by reporting a friend. People of that nature have only showed that they've given away the last bit of humanity they have left.

 

[owlegrad]

I'm pretty fascinated by this topic as I believe this moral dilemma says a lot about both a person's core values and his/her moral reasoning process. Sorry to wake up a dead thread but this subject has become more relevant for me lately.

Jackal Head I disagree with your reasoning. I think you simplify the topic too much by distorting or ignoring legitimate reasons for why you'd be obligated to report.

Viewing half a dozen or so threads, I've noticed that the vast majority of the SDN users are strongly against turning in a cheater (including strangers...not that it should really matter on principle). I don't have the figures but I'd guess >90% would look the other way. I'll be honest, I'm a little disappointed.

I've noticed a trend where people (I'm not talking about Jackal Head anymore) who try to defend the "not reporting" option tend to:

1) Make optimistic and ameliorating assumptions about the future impact of the academic dishonesty in question and/or the "system's" (aka i guess Karma's) ability to make cheating "catch up" with the cheater w/o hurting a patient.

2) Demonize "snitches," and distort their rationale for reporting...i.e. they'd do it b/c they are heartless outcasts / self-righteous meddlers / ambitious gunners.

3) trivialize the concept of professionalism and duty.

I think these assumptions, while palatable, are also derived from lazy thinking. This topic is more nuanced than many people give it credit for. I'd love to hear some other opinions, even if they are violent disagreements.

It's kinda funny, because if you changed the question to stealing drugs rather than cheating I wonder if the results would change.

I absolutely would not report a friend. I also do not try to rationalize this choice as being a "moral" choice. I wouldn't report my friend because he is just that - a friend. I would hope my friend would not report me ether. I don't need to preform mental gymnastics to validate my choice to myself.

I do not consider my duty to report dishonesty as being greater than my friendship. I really think this goes back to what you believe your role to be. If I was a TA and I caught a friend cheating, he is getting reported, because that is the role of a TA. But as just another student, I don't consider it my place to report. Would I report a stranger? Still no, for the same reason.

Purk, I respect your opinion, but I find your post somewhat evasive in the sense that you mostly just argue against not reporting. I take it you would report? What if you were wrong? Would you consider talking to your friend first or would you go straight to the dean? I am just trying to get a feel for your thought process.

 

[delano2000]

I hope this is never an interview question. I don't know what I would say to an interviewer, but in real life I would definitely not report my friend for cheating- I probbaly wouldn't report a total stranger in my class either. Nope I would not.

I was asked that one at Sullivan. Told them more than likely no but it would depend on the situation. I was trying to be real and honest with my answer.

PS. I guess that's why they never got back to me.🙄

 

[Purkinjeman]

I see two different issues here in your rationale for not reporting:
1) "I wouldn't report my friend because he is just that - a friend."
2) "as just another student, I don't consider it my place to report."

I can understand the first one. Essentially, if your justification for not reporting is just that you hold your friendship higher than your obligation to report then I can buy that. i.e. in choosing between friendship vs academic/professional honesty, you'd pick friendship. If that's your thought process there is not a lot I can say. I tend to value academic honesty very highly so the choice is much more tricky, but we can disagree.

the second point makes it sound a little like you're rationalizing. Here, you're not choosing "don't report" because you value your friendship, you're choosing "don't report" because it's none of your business and not your responsibility/problem. This 2nd rationale lets you get away with keeping both your friendship and academic integrity, whereas the first rationale, "friendship > morality," made you chose one at the cost of the other.

Like I said, I can't say much to the first rationale as we'd be starting from different presuppositions (I.e. you don't value upholding ethics nearly as much as you value maintaining a friendship). I do take issue with the second rationale because it's trying to have the cake and eat it too. I don't want to get too preachy but I don't think it's too much to ask that some professions, including medicine, get held to a high ethical standard. Because of this, I would argue that it's not enough to just look the other way when you see something wrong.


I'll share my POV with you as you've shared mine. I don't know if I'd be able to turn in someone for cheating. I'd know in my heart that it would be the right thing to do but, man, it would suck. I would talk to the individual first of course, to get the whole story, but my moral code would not let me feel good about tolerating that sort of dishonesty. There's no way I'd get through that situation without feeling really ****ty.

It's kinda funny, because if you changed the question to stealing drugs rather than cheating I wonder if the results would change.

I absolutely would not report a friend. I also do not try to rationalize this choice as being a "moral" choice. I wouldn't report my friend because he is just that - a friend. I would hope my friend would not report me ether. I don't need to preform mental gymnastics to validate my choice to myself.

I do not consider my duty to report dishonesty as being greater than my friendship. I really think this goes back to what you believe your role to be. If I was a TA and I caught a friend cheating, he is getting reported, because that is the role of a TA. But as just another student, I don't consider it my place to report. Would I report a stranger? Still no, for the same reason.

Purk, I respect your opinion, but I find your post somewhat evasive in the sense that you mostly just argue against not reporting. I take it you would report? What if you were wrong? Would you consider talking to your friend first or would you go straight to the dean? I am just trying to get a feel for your thought process.

 

[owlegrad]

I see two different issues here in your rationale for not reporting:
1) "I wouldn't report my friend because he is just that - a friend."
2) "as just another student, I don't consider it my place to report."

I can understand the first one. Essentially, if your justification for not reporting is just that you hold your friendship higher than your obligation to report then I can buy that. i.e. in choosing between friendship vs academic/professional honesty, you'd pick friendship. If that's your thought process there is not a lot I can say. I tend to value academic honesty very highly so the choice is much more tricky, but we can disagree.

the second point makes it sound a little like you're rationalizing. Here, you're not choosing "don't report" because you value your friendship, you're choosing "don't report" because it's none of your business and not your responsibility/problem. This 2nd rationale lets you get away with keeping both your friendship and academic integrity, whereas the first rationale, "friendship > morality," made you chose one at the cost of the other.

Like I said, I can't say much to the first rationale as we'd be starting from different presuppositions (I.e. you don't value upholding ethics nearly as much as you value maintaining a friendship). I do take issue with the second rationale because it's trying to have the cake and eat it too. I don't want to get too preachy but I don't think it's too much to ask that some professions, including medicine, get held to a high ethical standard. Because of this, I would argue that it's not enough to just look the other way when you see something wrong.


I'll share my POV with you as you've shared mine. I don't know if I'd be able to turn in someone for cheating. I'd know in my heart that it would be the right thing to do but, man, it would suck. I would talk to the individual first of course, to get the whole story, but my moral code would not let me feel good about tolerating that sort of dishonesty. There's no way I'd get through that situation without feeling really ****ty.

I can relate. It would be a bad situation. Would it change your thinking if your friend confessed to you he cheated rather than you catching him? I am just curious. Morally I guess it shouldn't, but I can't imagine reporting something someone told me in confidence.

I don't consider myself as choosing to abandon my ethics for friendship. Of course it would be compromising my ethics to not report, but abandon is too strong. To me it also seems unethical to report my friend. To be clear I don't think it is "moral" to not report, only that between the two options I would not report my friend. I don't think it is automatically the ethical choice to report, unless friendship carries no obligations at all. There is no way to avoid some compromise of integrity in this situation, IMO.

My main point was the first one. The second point might be a bit of a justification, although I really meant it as a different way to look at the situation. I didn't want to give the impression that I would never report a friend, only that it would depend on my role in the situation.

I don't know if I would talk to my friend. I wouldn't want to ignore the situation, but I wouldn't know what to say.

EDIT: THIS IS MY 1000TH POST! Damn I really wanted to save this post for something amazing, not a discussion on why I wouldn't turn in a friend for cheating. I was hoping for a post that encapsulates my wit and humor, a comic masterpiece the likes of which SDN has never seen, a tour-de-force that would cement my status of poster extraordinaire. Oh well I guess there is always 2000....