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Faze2

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Here's a related question that I have not heard asked. What about MD schools that are not as reputable vs DO? I know that no med school is easy or easy to get in to, but let's use for instance some of the schools in the bottom 10 for MD. Would you be better off going to the "best" DO school vs one of the "worst" MD schools? Is it all about your grades and your boards or is the school you went to be a factor as well. Like if someone went to John's Hopkins and someone went to a "low ranked" MD school, if they had the same grades in med school/rotations, and the exact same board scores, would the John's Hopkins grad have a better match for residency?

Now take someone that went to a DO school vs a "low ranked" MD school. Same grades, same boards. What is the deal with residency matching there?

BTW, I am not asking to be sarcastic or prove a point, I really have no
 

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I can't wait to see where this one goes...:sleep:

How many different perturbations of MD vs DO can we think of to "debate"? Apparently an awful lot :thumbdown: .
 
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Jack Daniel

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Here's a related question that I have not heard asked. What about MD schools that are not as reputable vs DO? I know that no med school is easy or easy to get in to, but let's use for instance some of the schools in the bottom 10 for MD. Would you be better off going to the "best" DO school vs one of the "worst" MD schools? Is it all about your grades and your boards or is the school you went to be a factor as well. Like if someone went to John's Hopkins and someone went to a "low ranked" MD school, if they had the same grades in med school/rotations, and the exact same board scores, would the John's Hopkins grad have a better match for residency?

Now take someone that went to a DO school vs a "low ranked" MD school. Same grades, same boards. What is the deal with residency matching there?

BTW, I am not asking to be sarcastic or prove a point, I really have no

I'm really still trying to figure out what the heck the OP is asking.

First, I think it's silly to compare an elite MD school with any school. There are many elite MD schools out there--if you're competitive for one and can afford the tuition--it's silly not to go for it. You can't compare one with any other school. An elite school is in a class of its own and you will benefit from it.

As for the rest of the schools, to me it's like splitting hairs. You study hard and do your best. I think most programs want the best applicant, MD/DO. So, yes, it makes sense that a top DO student will fair better than a struggling MD student. But, this is absurd to ponder because extremes like these are exceptions. Most people are average. So, it's more productive to ask, if all things were equal, would the average MD trump the average DO? (And this may, in fact, be what you're asking.) If it's an ACGME residency, I think maybe. They'll want to look out for their own. That's why DOs have separate residencies. But, there are probably many other factors (like personality, first impressions, other experiences) that may tip the scale in someone's favor (like a DO applying for an MD residency).

In the end, I think my answer has tortuously rambled on about as much as the OP's question :laugh:
 

Faze2

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But, this is absurd to ponder because extremes like these are exceptions. Most people are average. So, it's more productive to ask, if all things were equal, would the average MD trump the average DO?

Sorry to confuse everyone here, but I thought it was a legitamate question. If you can get into a reputable DO school or a not so reputable MD school, is one or the other a better match for residencies, given the same grades and boards? Simple as that. Sorry if that was too diffucult a question Jack. Maybe John's Hopkins was a bad example, I admit. But if you read the question I did say the students had the same grades and boards. So forget about John's Hopkins or even the two MD school comparison, cause that was a stupid example.

And no I do not care if I get an MD or a DO. It was a simple question that obviously boils people blood, cause they think I am trying to make a point, or start another MD vs DD thread. Which again, I am not.
 

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This is a difficult question to answer because there are a lot of opinions involved, and I am not sure if there is any research comparing DO and MD applicants with similar stats. If you are comparings schools, you should probably look at their pass rate on the boards and/or how well their graduates are doing in the match. If you are interested in a competitive residency, I believe you are going have to prove yourself with your clinical grades, board scores, research, work ethic, personality...etc whether you are a MD or DO.
 

Jack Daniel

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Sorry to confuse everyone here, but I thought it was a legitamate question. If you can get into a reputable DO school or a not so reputable MD school, is one or the other a better match for residencies, given the same grades and boards? Simple as that. Sorry if that was too diffucult a question Jack. Maybe John's Hopkins was a bad example, I admit. But if you read the question I did say the students had the same grades and boards. So forget about John's Hopkins or even the two MD school comparison, cause that was a stupid example.

And no I do not care if I get an MD or a DO. It was a simple question that obviously boils people blood, cause they think I am trying to make a point, or start another MD vs DD thread. Which again, I am not.

I hear you, Faze. I hear you--and I didn't interpret your question as slamming DOs.

So, say, compare Drexel and PCOM or Rosalind and CCOM (my perception of a strong DO and weak MD)--each pair in the same city. I guess an objective way would be to compare match lists and board scores. See which school can more easily match into the perceived competitive specialties. My advice to someone in such a situation? All other things being equal, go with the school that's generally perceived as stronger.

However, I still hold to my original opinion: once you take out the big name schools, I think a student's success lies mostly with each student: performance, experience, diligence, etc.
 

Jack Daniel

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This is a difficult question to answer because there are a lot of opinions involved, and I am not sure if there is any research comparing DO and MD applicants with similar stats. If you are comparings schools, you should probably look at their pass rate on the boards and/or how well their graduates are doing in the match. If you are interested in a competitive residency, I believe you are going have to prove yourself with your clinical grades, board scores, research, work ethic, personality...etc whether you are a MD or DO.

Oops, I posted mine before seeing this post.
I'd agree with this completely :thumbup:
 

Faze2

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Can people like me,(someone who is not in med school YET:cool: ) look at these matchlists? Is their a website or hospital that shows matchlists and what have you, because to be honest, I have never seen the process, and I would like to?

Either way, to me MD and DO both equal Dr. Faze2
 

Jack Daniel

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Can people like me,(someone who is not in med school YET:cool: ) look at these matchlists? Is their a website or hospital that shows matchlists and what have you, because to be honest, I have never seen the process, and I would like to?

Either way, to me MD and DO both equal Dr. Faze2

Some schools do post on the web where their students have matched. Mine does--but it's not presented on the first page. You usually have to dig for it. This info isn't secret--if it's not on the web, just ask the school for it.

Also, I've read some posts in other threads that list match data for specific schools--you may have luck searching for it.
 

Tired Pigeon

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Sorry to confuse everyone here, but I thought it was a legitamate question. If you can get into a reputable DO school or a not so reputable MD school, is one or the other a better match for residencies, given the same grades and boards? Simple as that. Sorry if that was too diffucult a question Jack. Maybe John's Hopkins was a bad example, I admit. But if you read the question I did say the students had the same grades and boards. So forget about John's Hopkins or even the two MD school comparison, cause that was a stupid example.

And no I do not care if I get an MD or a DO. It was a simple question that obviously boils people blood, cause they think I am trying to make a point, or start another MD vs DD thread. Which again, I am not.

Please, for the love of God ... it is "Johns Hopkins". There is no apostrophe!
 

physicsnerd42

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If you're looking to do an osteopathic residency then it's definitely better to go to a DO med school (since DO residencies don't take MDs). At virtually every allopathic residency, when considering 2 candidates with similar qualifications, the person from the "worst" MD school will beat out the person from the best DO school. You need to remember that there aren't any "bad" MD schools. Harvard might be better than Wayne State, but you'll learn the same things at both, and the differences in education are probably not all that big. USNews doesn't rank allopathic schools based on the education you'll receive there, only how much research money (etc.) the labs affiliated with a med school get. So, you're deceiving yourself if you think there is a huge quality difference between the "best" and "worst" allopathic school. I go to a decently well-respected MD school, but I don't think I'm learning much more medicine than anyone at an unranked program. Thus, if you really want that allopathic residency, you're better off coming from an allopathic school.
 

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If you're looking to do an osteopathic residency then it's definitely better to go to a DO med school (since DO residencies don't take MDs). At virtually every allopathic residency, when considering 2 candidates with similar qualifications, the person from the "worst" MD school will beat out the person from the best DO school. You need to remember that there aren't any "bad" MD schools. Harvard might be better than Wayne State, but you'll learn the same things at both, and the differences in education are probably not all that big. USNews doesn't rank allopathic schools based on the education you'll receive there, only how much research money (etc.) the labs affiliated with a med school get. So, you're deceiving yourself if you think there is a huge quality difference between the "best" and "worst" allopathic school. I go to a decently well-respected MD school, but I don't think I'm learning much more medicine than anyone at an unranked program. Thus, if you really want that allopathic residency, you're better off coming from an allopathic school.
Wow. Assuming your location of NH is correct--and knowing the only school in NH is Dartmouth, I would think it's more than "decently well-respected" :laugh:
So, are you just gifted at understatement, or is the med school really not as well respected as its undergraduate school?
 

Faze2

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Some schools do post on the web where their students have matched. Mine does--but it's not presented on the first page. You usually have to dig for it. This info isn't secret--if it's not on the web, just ask the school for it.

Also, I've read some posts in other threads that list match data for specific schools--you may have luck searching for it.


Thanks, but I was actually asking what exactly the term "matching" means as far as residency. I understand the basic concept of it, but what exactly does it mean to "match well" to a certain residency and not match well with another? Like if you wanted to do emergency medicine, what would a "good match" be for that residency at any given hospital?
 

physicsnerd42

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Wow. Assuming your location of NH is correct--and knowing the only school in NH is Dartmouth, I would think it's more than "decently well-respected" :laugh:
So, are you just gifted at understatement, or is the med school really not as well respected as its undergraduate school?

Yeah, I'm a first year MD/PhD student at Dartmouth. Okay, so the med school is generally very well respected (but I guess it depends on who you ask). ;) USNews ranks us ~30 in the research rankings (not that I think USNews is the best authority on what should be considered a great med school).

Thanks, but I was actually asking what exactly the term "matching" means as far as residency. I understand the basic concept of it, but what exactly does it mean to "match well" to a certain residency and not match well with another? Like if you wanted to do emergency medicine, what would a "good match" be for that residency at any given hospital?

The match works like this: In your final year of med school you apply to programs you would like to do a residency at. You can apply to a bunch of different specialties at different places (General Surgery at UCSF and Brown and Pediatrics and Boston Childrens and Rainbow Childrens, etc.) if you want, but people typically apply to one specialty. The number of applications you send out typically depends on how good an applicant you are and how competitive of a specialty you're applying to. So a person who might send only 10 applications to pediatrics programs might send out 40 for ophthalmology programs. If a particular program you applied to is interested, they invite you for an interview. After all the interviews are over, you rank the programs you are interested in and the programs rank all the applicants they'd like to have at their program. Then, a computer algorithm decides who goes where.

The algorithm works in your favor by ranking you at the top program you'd like to go to: If you rank a program #1 and they have 3 spots, if they rank you #1, #2, or #3 you WILL match there. If they rank you #4 but one of the people they ranked 1-3 is matched at another program they ranked higher, you will match there. A "good match" is a pretty nebulous concept, but a statistic that many med schools like to quote is what percent of their class matched at their top choice and what percent matched at one of their top 3 ranked programs. The "top 3" statistic isn't a perfect indicator of how well people matched because people will typically only rank programs they interviewed at, so if you didn't get an interview at your top choice but match at the place you put at the top of your match list, you would be considered to have matched at your #1 choice.

You can also look at how many people matched at the most competitive specialties (neurosurgery, radiation oncology, dermatology, ophthalmology, orthopedic surgery, etc.). This barometer of how well people did in the match is not very accurate for 2 reasons: Some pediatrics programs (CHOP, etc.) can be harder to get into than some radiation oncology programs even though pediatrics is much easier to get into. Also, the reason a school doesn't match anyone into derm could be that no one wanted derm.

I hope this helps.
 

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Here's a related question that I have not heard asked. What about MD schools that are not as reputable vs DO? I know that no med school is easy or easy to get in to, but let's use for instance some of the schools in the bottom 10 for MD. Would you be better off going to the "best" DO school vs one of the "worst" MD schools? Is it all about your grades and your boards or is the school you went to be a factor as well. Like if someone went to John's Hopkins and someone went to a "low ranked" MD school, if they had the same grades in med school/rotations, and the exact same board scores, would the John's Hopkins grad have a better match for residency?

Now take someone that went to a DO school vs a "low ranked" MD school. Same grades, same boards. What is the deal with residency matching there?

BTW, I am not asking to be sarcastic or prove a point, I really have no

The elite MD vs anything, elite MD program wins.

lower-tier MD vs top DO: lower-tier MD. They still require higher admissions stats, are MD (so you don't have to experience the road-blocks/hoops that you would coming out of a DO school). Go MD regardless if given the option to do so.
 

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Sorry to confuse everyone here, but I thought it was a legitamate question. If you can get into a reputable DO school or a not so reputable MD school, is one or the other a better match for residencies, given the same grades and boards? Simple as that. Sorry if that was too diffucult a question Jack. Maybe John's Hopkins was a bad example, I admit. But if you read the question I did say the students had the same grades and boards. So forget about John's Hopkins or even the two MD school comparison, cause that was a stupid example.

And no I do not care if I get an MD or a DO. It was a simple question that obviously boils people blood, cause they think I am trying to make a point, or start another MD vs DD thread. Which again, I am not.

So quick answer to your question -- there's not an overall separate ranking between osteopathic schools and allopathic schools. The top osteopathic school might or might not be better than the bottom ranked allopathic school. You need to judge the individual merits of each school without getting caught up in the whole top do versus lowly md program. And, yes, this exact question has been asked a few times already.
 

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If you're looking to do an osteopathic residency then it's definitely better to go to a DO med school (since DO residencies don't take MDs). At virtually every allopathic residency, when considering 2 candidates with similar qualifications, the person from the "worst" MD school will beat out the person from the best DO school. You need to remember that there aren't any "bad" MD schools. Harvard might be better than Wayne State, but you'll learn the same things at both, and the differences in education are probably not all that big. USNews doesn't rank allopathic schools based on the education you'll receive there, only how much research money (etc.) the labs affiliated with a med school get. So, you're deceiving yourself if you think there is a huge quality difference between the "best" and "worst" allopathic school. I go to a decently well-respected MD school, but I don't think I'm learning much more medicine than anyone at an unranked program. Thus, if you really want that allopathic residency, you're better off coming from an allopathic school.



Stick to physics Nerd!!!!

Dosent matter wht school u come from (for the most part).
Im a DO...I prematched Ortho @ an allopathic institution..I beat out kids from Hopkins, Harvard , NYU, and Columbia...What matters if how hard you work in class on floor and how dedicated you are to the feild of your choice...

Who do u take 1st a shi*y DO or a shi*y MD.......
Neither.... nobody likes shi* nomatter where it comes from!!!
 

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The elite MD vs anything, elite MD program wins.

lower-tier MD vs top DO: lower-tier MD. They still require higher admissions stats, are MD (so you don't have to experience the road-blocks/hoops that you would coming out of a DO school). Go MD regardless if given the option to do so.

That is not a smart idea. There are some very lousy MD schools. I will not list them here as it is inappropriate to single out weak institutions.
 

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http://webcampus.drexelmed.edu/admissions/matchplacement.asp

Above is a link to the 2005/2006 match list for Drexel, a suppossed weak MD school. :)

Sorry, I'm not engaging in a "which school is better" debate with you.

If you're a student of Drexel, congratulations. I hope you enjoy your experience. If I were a resident of Philly, I'm sure I would have applied there myself. If you read my post, my argument was basically that the individual has more control of his/her future than the school he/she graduates from.
 
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