I had really hoped that this thread wouldn't deteriorate into another URM/ORM thread, but here we are. Anyway, to add some actual research behind baseless opinion:
Heres a little help for your research on AA:
Underrepresented Minorities Get in Easier: UNFAIR: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=332544
MCRI battles AA in Michigan: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=331226
AA totally out of control?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=324769
Who agrees with affirmative action?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=323889
Amazing URM fact-oid:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=306866
So when do the less qualified people get invites?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=315055
Diversity in Med School:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=262097
Howard, Moorehouse, and Meharry SOM'S....low GPAs?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=309219
affirmative action thread:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=46604
what is URM?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=306827
URM Status:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=12020
URM status:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=286946
You thought we have it bad. Check this out:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=286302
What is the advantge to being an URM when applying?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=285817
whats the difference between ethnicity and race?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=283152
native american-how much blood to be considered URM?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=281362
URM acceptance rates confused:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=270608
My Skin Is 'White,' but I'm Gonna Claim URM Status. Any Thoughts?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=274301
Hispanic Applicants and AA:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=235379
URM benefits???:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=239656
Someone is getting into these schools with below-average scores...:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=235599
AA in med:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=235528
Do you think it is wrong to put myself down as a minority?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=234632
ethnicity a factor in acceptance?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=234441
Does being hispanic help?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=233933
Asians: ORM= really bad news?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=221780
Who's this African American URM?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=221853
Someone is getting into these schools with below-average scores...:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=235599
Affirmative Action - Med School Admis:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=215366
Minority Acceptance:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=208025
Affirmative Action!!:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=203685
Affirmative Action in Medical Schools?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=203601
Minorities in med school:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=190172
"Let Asians compete freely with white students.":http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=70922
Affirmative Action Again!!!:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=186948
Disadvantage if Asian-American male?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=182886
Interesting aa article (NYTIMES):http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=179526
Affirmative action:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=175977
Marginalization of average white males:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=174092
Under-represented groups:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=173587
affirmative action:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=168516
Reverse affirmative action?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=165859
Message to all Pre-Meds regarding AA:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=162406
does 1/4 URM count?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=159790
Diversity disappointment:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=155920
Am I URM?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=151874
Study: Too few minorities in health care:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=150933
AA - thoughts on overrepresentation as well:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=141039
More on Affirmative Action:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=132594
A note about Affirmative action:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=134799
It's sad to be asian:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=134683
Not just another Affirmative Action thread.:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=133164
Underrepresented in Medicine and the ethnicity breakdown in the US:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=119146
Some asians may have a legit reason to want URM status but...:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=119131
Affirmative Action and Diversity in Admissions:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=95471
"Underrepresented":http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=116785
Affirmative Action and Med School Application:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=111772
reply about the "problems with asians" thread:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=85539
Another thought on Affirmative Action:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=102358
Afirmative Action and its place in MEDICINE!:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=102533
Why Is an Affirmative Action Debate Moved From Pre-Allo:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=102369
for URMs (and ORMs) : serious discussion.:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=53999
The Problem with AA:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=96949
AA: Why does everyone get so worked up?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=96133
Affirmative Action:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=95297
I don't Want To Start Another War on Here But Guys I Was Just Checking Out Stats...:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=86457
Affirmative Action:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=87760
Historically Black Medical Schools:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=78969
why do we have AA for grad school??:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=76640
retire affirmative action thread?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=75569
Why Asian American Students Succeed:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=74452
We are neglecting the meaningful questions relating to AA:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=74149
The official AAAAAA thread:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=74168
An ORM who sides with the URM folks.:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=71199
Rallying my fellow URMs:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=68499
AA the thread to end all threads....:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=73478
AA and nonURM minorities:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=73161
If you like/dislike AA, watch Dateline RIGHT NOW:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=71384
AA Solution? Need feedback.:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=71935
Sobering realities and statistics of AA:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=71823
Why URM's should NOT worry about the Supreme Courts' decision.:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=70811
Why Are Black Students Lagging?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=71103
Applying Disadvantaged- Affirmative Action for UC Schools?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=68067
Why do WHITES complain about AA???:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=66957
Rich URM's vs. poor whites and Asians:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=65768
AAMC president on diversity:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=67316
Why is diversity of ethnicity sooo important?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=66935
A solution to selection by race...Individualism:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=65919
An Alternative to AA:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=66037
I am sick of people complaining about AA and URMs:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=65889
Minorities in Medicine:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=62673
am I a URM?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=61718
Ignore Affirmative Action:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=46603
Why do non-URM envy the so-called "advantage" the URM have for admissions?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=48465
CNN AA Poll:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=56293
What are your most recent feeling towards the debate about Affirmative Action?come in:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=56307
Chances as a ORM??? UGHHH:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=53809
underepresented minority edge:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=51799
U.Michigan: Lack of Diversity?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=45309
revealing ethnic identity:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=43576
Do Adcoms compare GPAs and MCATs by URM status?:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=320954
RACISM, Foriegn MED Students/Doctors and the REASON's WHY:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=317813
Different playing field for URMs: MCAT and GPA:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=313272
Justification to admit URMs:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=313510
opinion on URM..repeat? dont care:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=372527
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MEDICAL SCHOOL MATRCULANTS BY RACE AND ETHNICITY (2004)
White=62.1%
Asian= 18.6%
Hispanic= 7.0%
Black= 6.5%
Native American= 0.3%
Multiple Race= 3.0%
Other= 1.0%
Foreign= 1.3%
U.S. PHYSICIANS BY RACE AND ETHNICITY (2004)
White=36.7%
IMG=23.6%
Unknown=27.6%
Native American= 0.3%
Black= 3.3%
Hispanic/Latino= 2.8%
Asian= 5.7%
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION
1) Why arent Asians considered for AA?
Because the purpose of AA is to increase the number of physicians that are underrepresented in MEDICINE. As you can see above, Asians are not underrepresented in medicine.
2) Why would the AAMC desire to increase the amount of physicians underrepresented in medicine?
I. Minority physicians are more willing to practice in underserved population areas
-
Effects of Affirmative Action in Medical Schools: A Study of the Class of
1975, 313 New Eng. J. Med. 1519, 1524 (1985)
-
Physician Race and Care of Minority and Medically Indigent Patients, 273 JAMA 1515, 1517 (1995)
II. With an ever increasing minority population, more minority physicians are needed to serve them
III. Patient satisfaction is integral to health care, and minority patients are more satisfied with minority doctors
-
Do Patients Choose Physicians of Their Own Race?, 19 Health Aff. 76, 77 (2000)
IV. More minority physicians yields more health care data from minority populations that helps in researching specific diseases plaguing these communities.
-
The Case for Diversity in the Health Care Workforce, 21 Health Aff. 90, 94 (2002)
V. A diverse medical school class creates culturally competent doctors.
-
An Evidentiary Framework for Diversity as a Compelling Interest in Higher Education, 109 Harv. L. Rev. 1357, 1372-73 (1996)
3) Why not just base AA on socio-economic status?
Do you remember the section on AMCAS where you can check off whether you are disadvantaged or not? That is where socioeconomic status is taken into consideration.
4) Is there a URM check box?
No. But you are allowed to designate whether you are Caucasian, Black, Asian, Indian, etc.
5) Isnt AA causing me to think that all minorities that are in my medical school got in only because of their race?
Dont blame affirmative action. If you feel this way, there were already preconceived biases within you about the intelligence level of minorities. AA just provides an avenue to openly express these biases. Remember
AA is
not about you, it is about the overall healthcare for Americans.
6) Can I trust a doctor who was admitted to medical school through AA?
And I quote from the AAMC, The consideration of race and ethnicity in medical school admissions has not, as some critics suggest, led to a less competent physician workforce. The vast majority of minority medical students graduate from medical school and go on to pass their license examinations. See Jordan J. Cohen,
Finishing the Bridge to Diversity, 72 Academic Medicine 103, 108 (1997);
Questions and Answers, supra, at 3 (noting that, by 1997, 87% of minority medical students who matriculated in 1990 had graduated from medical school; and that, by 1996, 88% of African-American and 95% of Hispanic medical students had passed the three-part national medical school examination). These achievements are the ultimate benchmarks of medical competency. Minority applicants admitted to medical schools succeed, and with this success comes the benefits of diversity to our society as a whole.
Also, remember Dr. Ben Carson (and he is clearly NOT the only successful minority doctor) would never be where he is without affirmative action (
http://www.press.umich.edu/pdf/0472112988-ch7.pdf). Would you trust your childs brain tumor to be extracted by him? Probably.
7) Has affirmative action worked?
Yes. In a study done by the University of Michigan (although its dated); affirmative action has worked. In the 1970s blacks made up only 2.7% of the 37,690 enrolled medical students. By 1977, blacks comprised 6.0% of the enrolled 60,039 medical students (
http://www.press.umich.edu/pdf/0472112988-ch7.pdf) . Of course, today the black enrollment in medical school still hovers around 6.0%, but affirmative action is STILL working, because the AAMC states, and I quote, Relying on MCAT scores and GPAs alone would have disastrous consequences for minority enrollment in medical school. This shows that if AA was stopped, minority enrollment would immediately drop, showing that AA in continually maintaining minority enrollment in medical school.
8) Will black physicians return to black communities?
Yes. They serve predominantly black communities even when they are trained at non-minority medical schools. Also, research has shown that the non-minority peers of black medical students practice in predominantly white communities. (
http://www.press.umich.edu/pdf/0472112988-ch7.pdf)
9) Would a race neutral medical school admissions policy produce graduates who would tend to go into underserved areas?
NO. One study shows that a race-neutral AA program produces a quite different outcome. During the 20-year period of 1968 to 1987 the University of California at Davis admitted 20% of its students, a total of 356 as special consideration admissions. Special admissions were defined as a race-neutral group that included students with less than a GPA of 3.0 (4.0 scale) and/or an MCAT average score less than 10 for the 4 test subscores; this group was matched with students admitted under regular admission criteria.
The special group contained 33% who did not meet the minimum GPA for regular admissions, 44% who did not meet minimum MCAT scores, and 23% who met neither. In background the special admissions students were 35% women; 46% non-Hispanic Whites; 42.7% URM in the categories of Black, Native American, Mexican American, mainland Puerto Rican; and 11% Asian and minority groups not included in the previous categories. Among the regularly admitted students, only 4% were URM students. Graduation rates were the SAME for special admission and other students, nor was there a difference in their postgraduate training choices, their specialty certification status, or their description of patients served. This indicates that race-neutral affirmative action based on lower GPA and/or MCAT scores does not predict future specialty or medical practice experience. (
Davidson and Lewis 1997).
10) Why not just make applicants sign a contract promising that they will go to work in underserved areas, rather than hoping that Johnny URM will work in that area compared to taking a competitive dermatology residency somewhere?
And I quote from the AAMC, No race-neutral factor can effectively substitute for the direct consideration of race in the admissions process. For instance, substituting economic hardship for race and ethnicity, as some have suggested, would not address the pressing need to increase the number of minority physicians being trained in America. Studies confirm that the relationship between a physicians race or gender and his or her service to minority and other underserved populations was significantly more pronounced and consistent than the relationship between a physicians socioeconomic background and his or her service to these same population groups. See Cantor, supra, at 173,176, 178. Moreover, accounting for economic hardship would not level the admissions playing field for minority and nonminority medical school candidates. In 2001, the average total MCAT score for underrepresented minorities coming from families with incomes of $80,000 or more was lower than the average MCAT scores of whites and Asians coming from families with incomes of $30,000 or less: The data thus confirms that targeting low-income applicants would not get more minority candidates into medical school and into medicine.
11) What will happen if AA is banned from medical schools?
Lets look to California for our example; and I quote from the AAMC, In California, which banned affirmative action by way of Proposition 209, the enrollment of underrepresented minorities in the states medical schools dropped after the ban was put in place and remains at inadequate levels.
the total number of African American, Hispanic and Native American applicants to the five University of California medical schools dropped from 4,165 in 1995-96 to 2,593 in 2001-2002; and that, for the 2001-02 school year, the five UC medical schools enrolled an average of four African Americans, nine Hispanics, and no Native Americans each.
12) Why do URMs score lower than non-minorities on standardized tests? Are they just innately more stupid?
No. And I quote from the AAMC, It is well documented that underrepresented minorities African Americans, Mexican Americans, mainland Puerto
Ricans and Native Americans generally do not perform as well on the MCAT as the rest of the population. See Nettles & Millett,
supra, at 159. For example, in the year 2001, the average MCAT scores for white applicants were 9.1 in Verbal Reasoning, 9.2 in Physical Sciences and 9.5 in Biological Sciences; in contrast, the average scores for underrepresented minorities were 6.9, 7.0 and 7.3, respectively. A similar phenomenon is
seen in GPAs. This gap is not well understood, but some educators believe that the reasons for lower performance include the lower quality of schools that minority students attend, stereotypic lower expectations of teachers for minority students, combined with stereotypic lower expectations of students for themselves; the lingering legacy of discrimination; lower education and academic achievement among minority families; and lower income levels. Questions and Answers, supra, at 4.
13)Does AA confer an advantage to applicants in the medical school process?
OF COURSE. If AA did not increase minority enrollment, it would not be used. In 2001, a total of 15,336 non-URMs were accepted into medical school. If AA was not used in the application process in 2001, then 16,667 non-URMs would have been accepted. In 2001, in the presence of AA, 1,868 URM applicants were accepted. If AA wasnt used in the process, it is projected that only 537 URMs would have been accepted in 2001. But once again, it must be clearly stated that the AAMC primarily cares about the overall healthcare availability for ALL Americans; not whether you felt shafted in the application process. So if it benefits society, it will continue to be used.
