P&S enthusiasts

[edfig99]

I hate how someone referred to it as "taking advantage of a poor population." There is nothing that we do "hands on" here that we would only do because of the nature of the population that we see: that is completely absurd, unfounded and horrible. What we do get is a variety of people (a lot of immigrants from different places) and a variety of diseases that you wouldn't see in a smaller hospital or one that had a predominantly white upper class population.... You have to establish rapport with patients who often speak a language that you don't, who come from a completely different background, who often think that the cure for their disease lives within special herbal concoctions bought at a nearby Botanica. It is cultural competence at its best....

I should clarify my prior statement a little bit. Columbia medical school and the hospital are two distinct entities and the reality is that there is a certain level of exploitation of this population -- it has decreased slightly over the years, but I saw it every single day as a resident, and I still see it here daily as an attending. There is a long history of mistrust between the community and the medical center which a lot of people are working to make better, and based on my interactions here, the med students are generally shielded from that.


anywho in terms of other things to be on the lookout for while you guys interview:

i will agree, PBL is not for everyone, but it is an adult learning style....it's how doctors learn, i.e. residency is peer education at it's best. active learning, i.e. "always being on" is much more important than passive learning and information is more likely to be retained. Lecture is not for everyone, but hey if you are uncomfortable with the uncertainty in a pbl curriculum, that's okay.... The intangibles are also very important...however, it's important to be careful and let one lunch time tour taint your decision about any school. If you can do a second look weekend, i encourage that....and sometimes you can even come in on a "regular day" and second look on a day that's not prepared to be a second look - then you can get the real flavor for something.

Don't neglect the importance of location and support network -- med school can be a rough time for some folks....and you want to know -- are there good support services at school, especially if you are far away from family....or is it better to stay local and lean on family and friends.

one matchlist by itself is pretty useless -- it only tells you what fields one class has opted to go into. it's probably better to view several match lists to get a sense of where people go and what people do. also remember that it's usually not the medical school that determines what people ultimately do (though sure, name may help get an interview) it's how well you perform.

ultimately, a school is a school is a school...they all have to teach you the same thing (though the methods may be different) and the real clinical training comes in residency, so if you don't get enough "hands on" in med school...that's okay too.

man....i can never write a short post.....

---

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[Benjo]

bump

 

[Chrisobean]

there is always that east side vs. west side drama.. the west side is just more relaxed in general, and has alot more fun things to do IMHO.. i work across the street from cornell, there is nothing over here!
but both are excellent and well-respected schools, so be grateful you have the choice!

 

[IntlMD07]

Just thought I would bump this up for all CU enthusiasts out there

 

[AverageMan]

I loved P&S. Today, I just sent out my LOI (and that's I for intent, not interest). I figure that there's no point in holding anything back for later and seeing if I get on the waitlist or whatever. Hope it pays off.

 

[CalBeE]

Originally posted by AverageMan
I loved P&S. Today, I just sent out my LOI (and that's I for intent, not interest). I figure that there's no point in holding anything back for later and seeing if I get on the waitlist or whatever. Hope it pays off.

I did the same thing last week, and I hope it does DO something.

 

[kwanny]

Originally posted by CalBeE
I did the same thing last week, and I hope it does DO something.

Only if UCSF would put me out of misery by getting me off the hold list, I would've done the same too.

 

[Nike]

So . . . these letters of intent, does it really make a difference at Columbia? I know there is another link debating this and someone said it depends on the school. My roommate said it wouldn't make a difference unless I was waitlisted.

 

[Rendar5]

call Frantz up if you're wait-listed to let him know how much you love the school. Works better than a LoI, I've been told (by an MSII)

 

[IntlMD07]

I don't think a LOI will work miracles. However, if your application is good and there is something about you that they want for the first year class (whether you play an instrument, are an athlete, write poetry etc) and there are five other people that look the same on paper, the fact that you have showed that you want to come here immediately puts you at the top of the list. In a waitlist situation, it is even more crucial because the waitlist is unranked, meaning everyone in is in the same boat. At that point, if you really want to come here, you can write a new letter, and once in a while make a phone call. You don't want to be a pest, but you want them to remember you in case a spot opens up.

-IntlMD07
P&S Class of 2007

 

[bigbaubdi]

IntlMD07, one of the things that really impressed me about Columbia was the seemingly high proportion of artists at P & S. I got the impression that P & S was a very artist-friendly school but I was curious about how much free time do you have to play music, put on shows, etc...

 

[missbonnie]

I think med students have more free time than most ppl think. Sure they study hard, but they also play hard (from what I gather).

I know at P & S they have a dark room for students in Bard Hall, and the P & S club sounds great - they even have a culinary club (i love to cook for ppl). That has me partially sold on the school. Plus, i think you can take classes at the ugrad campus - including the art classes. I live in Washington Heights so I really don't mind the area at all.

sigh ... (waiting to hear from them)

bonnie

 

[dl2dp2]

i just want to make a comment about Washington Heights: when I visited NYU and Columbia, I actualy preffered WH over Murray Hill/midtown east area.

(1) it's actually EASIER to get to places (such as The Village) from WH, because of the A line.
(2) Midtown is really NOISY and busy, and TOURISTY. I don't like that sort of atmosphere.
(3) It's not necessarily true that uptown is less safe than downtown. When I visited NYU, I LITERALLY eyewitnessed a robbery taking place. It was INSANE.
(4) Housing is way cheaper in WH. Some areas of WH (Hudson Heights, west Inwood) are more gentrified than others.

Mount Sinai is in a bad area. Albert Einstin is in a bad area as well with no subway access. Neither of those new york schools neighborhoods are better than WH, if you are thinking about coming to NY for med school.

Cornell's in a better area, but the nightlife is as absent in that area as compared to WH (ok maybe a little better). Again, it could be easier to get to The Greenwich Village from WH, considering that you need to walk like 10 blocks from Cornell campus to the 6 stop. The two schools have very different feels to it. Columbia gives you a very low-key, sorta beaten down, real world gritty Gothum feel, whereas Cornell is surrounded by the really fancy looking brownstones etc. Do visit I think it'll clarify

 

[JohnHolmes]

Originally posted by sluox
The two schools have very different feels to it. Columbia gives you a very low-key, sorta beaten down, real world gritty Gothum feel, whereas Cornell is surrounded by the really fancy looking brownstones etc. Do visit I think it'll clarify

Truer words have never been spoken.

Coops

 

[TheFlash]

Originally posted by sluox

Mount Sinai is in a bad area.

Dude, have you lost your mind? 99 out of 100 people would choose Mount Sinai's location in the Upper East Side or NYU's Midtown (which you also seem to detest) over the uber crap area of Washington Heights.

When I was interviewing at Columbia just a month ago there was a flyer of caution tacked to the wall about a P&S student that was just robbed (at gunpoint!) on 169th street... that's a block from the entrance to the medical school. You're exactly right about the "beaten down" feel of Washington Heights. The most repetitive complaint that current P&S students had on my interview day was about location, location, location.

You must be the one out of 100 that apparently prefers your isolation from the rest of Manhattan in Washington Heights. Hell, I'd rather live in the Bronx.

tf

 

[Selisa]

Originally posted by sluox


Mount Sinai is in a bad area.

whoa...you're WAY off. i live on the east side, 20 blocks below Mount Sinai, and i've taken a stroll between where i live and where the school is many times. if you think Mount Sinai's location is in a bad area, i think you need to take another trip to New York and explore the city a bit more... i'll show you some REALLY bad areas.

Mount Sinai's in a bad area... ha!


- Gen

 

[Rendar5]

I live in the WH area, too. But there really just isn't that much to do around here. as for crime? It happens of course. Same goes for other areas of the city. I honestly think that NYU has the best NYC location. You don't go to Columbia for the location.

 

[Tezzie]

Originally posted by Rendar5
You don't go to Columbia for the location.

Extremely well said.

 

[marimed]

Hi,
I know this is switching topics a little bit and this has probably been talk to death about but after reading this thread today my feelings about columbia grew stronger. But I keep thinking about my interview there. It went overall well (My interviewer -who was not Franz- said that they hope they can steal me away from other schools, but I think he was just trying to be nice). However, my interviewer asked me three differant times what I like to do for fun and I just couldn't think of anything. He was so persistent on it. I just said that I liked to laugh and hangout with my friends. Only when I got home did I think of the things that i like to do.. such as cooking, singing, even trying to learn how to play the guitar. I should have remembered that P & S loves hobbies, especially music (they have a music room in Bard and practically everyone has a guitar or a violin in their room or sings opera). Do you think it would be crazy to somehow include on an update letter about this new guitar class I'm taking at my university? do you think there is still time to write an update letter--- my interview was mid dec and I wanted to give the title and abstract of my honor research thesis and updated grades.

 

[Rendar5]

send a letter to your interviewer about your hobbies, though I don't know if he'll remember you still.

 

[IntlMD07]

Wow! Great posts you guys! With your enthusiasm, I really wish you could all be in the next first year class

About free time... First Year here is Pass/Fail, which speaks for itself. There is always the tendency at the beginning to study too much and try to perform at a really high level, which is understandable because of our backgrounds and the fact that we really care to learn the material. That being said, free time is what you make of it. We have afternoons off on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays and only one of these afternoons needs to be occupied by your clinical experience (selective). The rest is free. On Tuesdays and Thursdays we have Anatomy scheduled until 5 but I can't think of one day that I was there past 4:20. So, if you do things productively, there is time for everything... For NY, for friends, for study and for extra curricular activities too!

About the arts... I had that vibe when I interviewed here last year too! And from what I can say from my class it is true. There is a lot of outlet for people interested in theatre and music - we have two plays a year I think and there are spots from acting to producing and costume designing... We also have musical nights every once in a while and the Coffeehouse Cabaret where people read poems, tell jokes and sing songs. We have some experienced artists in the class and others that do it as a hobby. So, in short, yes, there is stuff to do, there is definitely time to do it - especially first year - so enjoy it!

Maybe you guys should check out the P&S Club website, you can get there through links within the class websites. Look around in the websites too, it gave me a lot of insight in what the people were like and what they did before I came here. It makes the waiting time pass faster!

Good luck!
-IntlMD07
P&S Class of 2007

 

[TheFlash]

Originally posted by Rendar5
I live in the WH area, too. But there really just isn't that much to do around here. as for crime? It happens of course. Same goes for other areas of the city. I honestly think that NYU has the best NYC location. You don't go to Columbia for the location.

Exactly. Columbia has its strong points compared to other Manhattan schools, but location isn't one of them.

tf

 

[CalBeE]

Originally posted by TheFlash
Exactly. Columbia has its strong points compared to other Manhattan schools, but location isn't one of them.

tf

Come on, it's just like most people don't goto Hopkins b/c they LOVE Baltimore, or to Yale b/c they LOVE New Haven.

Location matters to me, but I'll still choose Columbia over many other schools.

 

[TheFlash]

Originally posted by CalBeE
Come on, it's just like most people don't goto Hopkins b/c they LOVE Baltimore, or to Yale b/c they LOVE New Haven.

You're agreeing with me, you know.

tf

 

[bigbaubdi]

Originally posted by Rendar5
I live in the WH area, too. But there really just isn't that much to do around here. as for crime? It happens of course. Same goes for other areas of the city. I honestly think that NYU has the best NYC location. You don't go to Columbia for the location.

If you are comparing NYC locations, then you probably are correct. However NYC is still NYC and you can still hop on the subway and get to wherever you want to go.

In my situation, I only applied to Cornell and Columbia (of the NYC schools). I got an interview at Columbia but didn't get one at Cornell. So of all of the cities I may end up next year, Columbia's is probably the best. Therefore, location would be a reason why I would go to P & S, (if admitted )

 

[Rendar5]

oh, if you're comparing Columbia to other schools of course. It's just that I'm such a NYer I barely consider other schools, so any comparisons I make are with other locations in NYC, arguably the greatest city in the world.

(Though I'm strongly considering going to Stanford. Never lived on the west coast before. Might be good to get away from NY for a few years before heading back here for residencies)

 

[CalBeE]

Originally posted by TheFlash
You're agreeing with me, you know.

tf

Well yes I was, maybe I didn't word it to sound that way.

I think Location is important, but I wouldn't avoid a good school b/c of not-so-ideal location.

 

[bigbaubdi]

Originally posted by Rendar5
oh, if you're comparing Columbia to other schools of course. It's just that I'm such a NYer I barely consider other schools, so any comparisons I make are with other locations in NYC, arguably the greatest city in the world.

(Though I'm strongly considering going to Stanford. Never lived on the west coast before. Might be good to get away from NY for a few years before heading back here for residencies)

I feel the same way, except my feelings are for Baltimore. I have grown up and went to undergrad in B'more, but I am wondering whether or not it might be a good idea to try a new city for some time. And if I am going to spend 4 years some other place, I can't think of a better place than NYC!

 

[SarahGM]

Originally posted by IntlMD07
On Tuesdays and Thursdays we have Anatomy scheduled until 5 but I can't think of one day that I was there past 4:20.

haha

 

[dl2dp2]

maybe you need to be a little more careful where you walk. for your information, anything above 96th on the east side is east harlem, and mount sinai is in east harlem (a.k.a. spanish harlem), not upper east side. I dare you to venture further north on the east side. for your information, I'd prefer to live in WH over east harlem ANY DAY. Finally, I just met someone who transferred from Mount Sinai to Columbia (he's an MD/PhD student, and his advisor moved.) and he told me about all sorts of horror stories about the neighborhood.

Originally posted by generation2MD?
whoa...you're WAY off. i live on the east side, 20 blocks below Mount Sinai, and i've taken a stroll between where i live and where the school is many times. if you think Mount Sinai's location is in a bad area, i think you need to take another trip to New York and explore the city a bit more... i'll show you some REALLY bad areas.

Mount Sinai's in a bad area... ha!


- Gen

 

[Selisa]

jeez, i didn't mean to hit a nerve. all i said was that around sinai is not that bad - and i am careful about where i walk and i HAVE ventured above 96th street, if you must know...i've been living in the city for almost 6 years now and so far, no problems. (knock on wood) if you thought i was slamming washington heights or something, that was not my intention...sorry if you read it as such.

chill...it's all good.

 

[TheFlash]

FYI: Sinai is right on the fence between Spanish Harlem and the Upper East Side. Central Park is a 5 minute walk away. Don't bend the truth and make it sound like Sinai is in the heart of Harlem; it's not. In fact, the area immediately surrounding Sinai is rated much safer than Washington Heights in every one of the NYC evaluations I read before I interviewed at either school. Cornell, however, is in the safest and quietest neighborhood of any of the Manhattan schools.

tf

 

[Selisa]

what TheFlash said.

Edit: sorry for the thread hijacking everyone. please, continue posting about Columbia.

 

[Rendar5]

5th Avenue is not that scary of a place until you get past central park. You just need to know the neighborhood. Your comment reminds me of some friends who were too scared to go home from Magic Johnson theater in Harlem because it's Harlem. It's scary if you don't know what you're doing. I don't see how Mt. Sinai area (border area of Spanish Harlem and Upper East Side) is any scarier than Washington Heights.

 

[JohnHolmes]

Originally posted by TheFlash
FYI: Sinai is right on the fence between Spanish Harlem and the Upper East Side. Central Park is a 5 minute walk away. Don't bend the truth and make it sound like Sinai is in the heart of Harlem; it's not. In fact, the area immediately surrounding Sinai is rated much safer than Washington Heights in every one of the NYC evaluations I read before I interviewed at either school. Cornell, however, is in the safest and quietest neighborhood of any of the Manhattan schools.

tf

It is true, you can travel by the A line (about 30-45 minutes total walk to station, wait for train and rided and get off to where you want to be) to get downtown a bit. So WH isn't "that bad."

If access to locations is how you define what is a good area, then I live in Va, similarly, I can hop on a plane any day and take a brief 1 hr flight to the heart of NYC. So Va is pretty close to the upper east side too!!!!

I still find it weird that Columbia gives so many interviews to those who don't get them at Cornell. I was in that boat until I heard mad late that I got an interview at Cornell. I know lots of people in this boat. If you look at the data, Columbia interviews about half of all their applicants ... ::shrugs::

Coops

 

[medstylee]

i'd definitely feel safer walking around WH these days than i would feel walking around here in suburban Evanston, IL. (there's been this huge rash of armed robberies/ physical assaults on students this year... sucks real bad)

in any case, i really don't think wh is that bad in terms of security and location - mostly from talking to friends who live there or who have lived there in the past. even taking the A-subway back from midtown late at night wouldn't be that bad. i've felt a lot more comfortable riding the nyc subways at 2AM than i have riding the el in chicago at the same time or even the rapid in cleveland (during the middle of the day- haha).

 

[CalBeE]

Originally posted by Cooper_Wriston
It is true, you can travel by the A line (about 30-45 minutes total walk to station, wait for train and rided and get off to where you want to be) to get downtown a bit. So WH isn't "that bad."

If access to locations is how you define what is a good area, then I live in Va, similarly, I can hop on a plane any day and take a brief 1 hr flight to the heart of NYC. So Va is pretty close to the upper east side too!!!!

I still find it weird that Columbia gives so many interviews to those who don't get them at Cornell. I was in that boat until I heard mad late that I got an interview at Cornell. I know lots of people in this boat. If you look at the data, Columbia interviews about half of all their applicants ... ::shrugs::

Coops

Yea I'm not that happy with Columbia interviewing so many people. Reviewing apps post-interview takes time, and MORE interviewees just mean less time spent on each application. Columbia really has to start to be more selective.

I'd have applied to Cornell if they're receptive to int'l students like Columbia.

 

[bigbaubdi]

Originally posted by CalBeE
Yea I'm not that happy with Columbia interviewing so many people. Reviewing apps post-interview takes time, and most interviewees just mean less time spent on each application. Columbia really has to start to be more selective.

I'd have applied to Cornell if they're receptive to int'l students like Columbia.

More interviewees means that many applicants who aren't great on paper will get a shot at Columbia, whereas other schools may exclude a whole bunch of qualified people just because they didn't pass some esoteric screening procedure.

Also if Dean Frantz has as much control over the admissions process as he is supposed to have, then it won't take as much time to review applicants post-interview.

 

[missbonnie]

If you're not from NYC, then location within NYC seems to be more important. NYCers know that you can get anywhere on the subway. I dont think one can compare this to JHU in baltimore or Yale in New Haven, completely different cases here.

Bottom line - you will be in NYC. You can get anywhere in NYC as you have the 2 big subway lines directly on the campus. After the first yr, you can opt to move a bit more downtown if you need a change in scenery and can still get to school easily.

Don't choose between Columbia, Cornell, Mt Sinai, and NYU cuz of location - that would be silly.

My 2 cents....

bonnie

 

[Rendar5]

Actually, NYU is really great because of the location for me. Because Murray Hill is a similar area to Morningside Heights, where I went to school. But now that I honestly think about it, if anything about NYU were the deciding factor between it and other schools, it would be Bellevue, not Murray Hill (which is overpriced even though it's a great area. $9 for a 3 egg cheese omelette that I can make better?!.

 

[darkcity998]

The only thing I really don't like about 168th Street is their 1/9 elevator. My classmate from Columbia got mugged inside one night. Sometimes, I just take the shuttle to get to Morningside and then take the subway from 116th street.

If you take the A/E, you see more cops there and it makes me feel better.

 

[acab]

Originally posted by darkcity998
The only thing I really don't like about 168th Street is their 1/9 elevator. My classmate from Columbia got mugged inside one night. Sometimes, I just take the shuttle to get to Morningside and then take the subway from 116th street.

I completely agree. Those elevators are very annoying and elevator operators will no longer be there. The MTA is trying to save money that way. So the chance for crime will dratically increase.

 

[JohnHolmes]

What are these elevators you are talking about?

Coops

 

[Rendar5]

The subway station at 168th St has the blue A/C line and the red 1/9 line. The 1/9 line is on a lower level, so you take elevators down to it. There used to always be elevator operators in those things, but the MTA is facing a budget crisis. I honestly think this is a bad move by them.

 

[acab]

Originally posted by Cooper_Wriston
What are these elevators you are talking about?

The subway station by the Columbia Health Sciences campus has 2 major lines running: A/C and 1/9. To get to the 1/9 subway cars, you need to take elevators since they very deep underground. There are no escalators or staircases available. They are extremely stuffy in the summer and dangerous at night.

 

[Kashue]

East siiiiiide > West siiiiide. Nuff said!

 

[JohnHolmes]

At WH is it advisable for safety reasons to have a self imposed curfew before midnight unless absolutely necessary? One of my tour guides said to "watch out for the Dominicans in the area."

Coops

 

[Selisa]

Originally posted by missbonnie
....Don't choose between Columbia, Cornell, Mt Sinai, and NYU cuz of location - that would be silly.

My 2 cents....

bonnie

you are absolutely right Bonnie. a few months back, i was silly enough to start picking and choosing NYC schools based on their location in the city. then i woke up and realized, "heck, no matter what school i get into, i'll STILL be in NYC...this is crazy!" if i'm lucky enough to get into all the schools i'm interested in, i'm picking the one that's the best fit for me, even if the location isn't the greatest.

of course, i have to apply first, which won't happen until June.

 

[Rendar5]

Originally posted by Cooper_Wriston
At WH is it advisable for safety reasons to have a self imposed curfew before midnight unless absolutely necessary? One of my tour guides said to "watch out for the Dominicans in the area."

Coops

As long as you know where you are, I walk around here after midnight plenty. The only problem is that most of the stuff is closed then anyway. As for the Dominicans in the area? Well, that's just a dumb comment. The only people in the area are pretty much Dominicans.

 

[dl2dp2]

GEEZ some of these tour guides are so insane.

Well honestly it depends. I've lived on the south side of chicago and so forth. Thare are a lot of people running around at night in WH and NOBODY in chicago. This makes me feel very safe in WH. The commercial streets are outright lively at night. Remember New York is the safest large cities in US. Property crime in WH is much lower than the vast majority of the neighborhoods is Manhattan -> you are significantly much less likely to get your apartment broken into. Robbery rate etc is slightly higher than upper west side. This you can avoid by not going to the east side of broadway after dark.

However, if you are from a small town or a very rich parts of a city (hint hint, you are ditzy and have zero streetsmarts), I think you'll feel unsafe just because of the democraphics. I think it is a bit of a racial prejudice.

I don't think you should be walking around 2 or 3 PM at night by yourself, but this applies to all new york neighborhoods.

But remember though, if you are not rich, WH has very affordable housing. If you ARE rich, you can always live on the upper west side, and the commute is a cinch. A lot of second or even first year P&S students live on the upper west side. I don't see why you'd have to be stuck in WH if you go to P&S.

Originally posted by Cooper_Wriston
At WH is it advisable for safety reasons to have a self imposed curfew before midnight unless absolutely necessary? One of my tour guides said to "watch out for the Dominicans in the area."

Coops