MD & DO PA/NP RESIDENCY at UNC????

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slowthai

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What in the heck is UNC doing??

I feel like this field is going downhill at an accelerating rate. I'm only an M1, I should switch to investment banking and start making 150K right out of the gate like all my non-medicine friends /s

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I tried to post this here: MD - ERAS panic thread

Apparently it's completely irrelevant to the ERAS panic thread. I mean, it's not like we're trying to decide right now which programs are going to give us the best training for the next 3-5 years. Oh, wait.....
 
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can we create a master list of residencies that also have PA/NP's training programs that either pay more than the residents, or cut in the residents educations.

I would avoid these programs like the plague. **** that.
 
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Folks on reddit have been unranking the program and writing to the PD telling them exactly why they did it. I hope others do the same.
 
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can we create a master list of residencies that also have PA/NP's training programs that either pay more than the residents, or cut in the residents educations.

I would avoid these programs like the plague. **** that.
Here's a post I got from the other thread.

basic google search...


and many more.

One PA wrote about her experience here: A Day or Night in the Life of an Emergency Medicine Fellow

"When I applied there were about 12 programs in the country that met the Society of Emergency Medicine PAs (SEMPA) Standards for Postgraduate training." That was in 2019.

I recall and old post over 10 years old now on the physician assistant forums that detailed the experiences of one such "resident".

Some pearls:

"Even though formal shifts don't start until late July, we do have some "ED-lite" shifts every so often this month, where we may work an occasional 6-hour shift during the week or a 12-hour shift on the weekends. The idea of course is that we get our feet wet without being thrown into the deep end. This is unlike the other departments in the hospital, where they immediately start their interns on shifts as soon as possible. Both the PA's and the physician interns are doing the exact same thing this month."

Of course. Every EM intern gets baby shifts to ease right into it. Standard practice. Right?!

"There is, of course, a MOUND of reading to do, but having very few shifts to do this month enables me to spend as much time as I want to review stuff while also picking up detailed facts that weren't covered in PA school."

False. PA school = medical school

"The month of orientation is now over. There had to been just a LITTLE jealously among interns on other services when they see we were only working once a week and otherwise were taking classes during the day, but this has really helped in transition into the culture here."

hmmm.


"My first full month in the ER is over...
...The senior residents, while they are adjusting to their new roles of running each area of the ER, are also very understanding of “the kids”, since they were just in our shoes a few years ago. And at no time has anyone looked down on me simply because I’m a PA- I’m seen no differently than the physician interns in regards to what patients I’m allowed to see."

Nothing to see here folks. Move along.

" In the ER, we generally work 6 days in a row, followed by three days off. The shifts vary from 9A-7P, 7P-7A, 7P-5A, 7A-7P, Noon-Midnight, or 9P-7A...so depending on the shift, it's either 10 or 12 hours. This means I never work more than 80 hours/week, but it comes close. The shifts also alternate between the three different areas of the ER."

Ok this seems legit.

"This past weekend was exactly one year since I graduated PA school, which gave me some time to reflect on where I"m at now with my career. One year later....absolutely no regrets about doing this program. I really don't know where I am in relation to a PA who just got hired on with an ER straight out of school without any prior experience....all I know is that compared to some of my physician resident colleagues, I'm doing well."

___________________________

As an non-ER doc this is incredible. Literally training your replacements.

You have an ER with 2 midlevels and 1 ED doc on during the busiest hours.

ER volumes continue to grow year after year.

When the admin finally get around to support increasing staffing what do you think they will do?

They won't add a second physician. They will add another PA. All the better if they are "residency trained".

And who do you think that new PA/NP will go to when the have a question?

"Hey doc I had this funny ECG. You mind taking a look at it?" Meanwhile you are still seeing well over 2pph on your own. If there was another doc there you know they would be able to handle their s***.

Just increased liability and another way for them to decrease your effective pay without making it look like a paycut. More work for same pay is a paycut in my books.

EDIT:

look at the Staten Island program. It pays 94k a year and is a 24 month program. At that point you are really blurring the lines between physicians and non-physicians. The Staten Island PGY-1 residents will get paid 73K as of June 2020. This is a sad joke.
 
It is gross that the government gives the hospital 150k per year per resident, and we only see a third of it.
 
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Apparently, UNC took down the link from their website. There is no trace of it now.
 
Apparently, UNC took down the link from their website. There is no trace of it now.
Pretty much an admission of guilt.
Why the **** would anyone rank UNC in any field? There is no field that doesn’t have some aspect of midlevels at academic residency centers. So no matter what field you are in you should probably be avoiding UNC. Whether it’s loss of procedures, more scut work, or more charting responsibilities, the institution has made the precedent clear: The intangible part of your residency training/education no longer matters. No to mention working double the hours for half the pay as your “co-residents”.
 
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Can't imagine a future where I'll actually be having conversations like this.

Friend: Do you know him?
Me: Oh yeah, I know him. He's a resident.
Friend: What kind of resident?
Me: Emergency medicine
Friend: No I mean what kind?
Me: What do you mean?
Friend: Like is he a PA or NP?
Me: ....
 
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It is gross that the government gives the hospital 150k per year per resident, and we only see a third of it.

That’s not really how it works.
You do "see" it but not in take home salary.
Would you prefer to take out more loans for your malpractice insurance and healthcare for example?
Most programs also offer CME money and some pay for board exams.
There is plenty wrong with medical education but the money spent to educate us is actually spent on things we need even though it’s not in the salary.
 
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Master list should be made of all programs on an excel, so that applicants can avoid
 
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Yeah, I wouldn’t go to a program that had this going on.
 
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That’s not really how it works.
You do "see" it but not in take home salary.
Would you prefer to take out more loans for your malpractice insurance and healthcare for example?
Most programs also offer CME money and some pay for board exams.
There is plenty wrong with medical education but the money spent to educate us is actually spent on things we need even though it’s not in the salary.
I would love to see an itemized list of how resident's annual CMS money is spent because I am not buying it.

I am saying there is definitely room to pay residents more, the hospital just doesn't want to.
 
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Here is a list of
PA Emergency Medicine Residency Programs

Albany Medical Center - Albany, NY
Albert Einstein Medical Center - Philadelphia, PA
ArrowHead Regional Medical Center - Colton, CA
Atrium Health - Charlotte, NC
Baylor College of Medicine - Houston, TX
Capitol Emergency Associates of TeamHealth - Austin, TX
Carilion Clinic - Roanoke, VA
Gunderson Health Emergency Medicine PA Fellowship - La Crosse, WI
St. Luke's Hospital - Bethlehem, PA
Jane R. Perlman / NorthShore University Health System - Evanstone, IL
Johns Hopkins Bayview Hospital - Baltimore, MD
University of Kentucky - Lexington, KY
Marquette University Aurora Health - Milwaukee, WI
Mayo Clinic Minnesota - Rochester, MN
University of Missouri - Colombia, MO
Nemours/Alfred duPont Hospital for Children - Wilmington, DE
New York Presbyterian Weill Cornell Medical Center - NY
NYU Langone Health Advanced Practice Provider Fellowship in Emergency Medicine - NY
Regions Hospital - St. Paul, MN
Staten Island University Hospital - Staten Island, NY
Team Health EMAPC Fellowship - OKC
Team Health EMAPC Fellowship - Orlando FL
University of Iowa - Iowa City
University of New Mexico School of Medicine - Alberquerque, NM
UCSF Fresno
Yale New Haven Hospital - New Haven, CT
Post-Graduate Advanced Practice Provider (APP) Emergency Medicine Fellowship At Lakeland Regional Health - Lakeland, FL


I do not know the salaries at these places, but I am willing to guess that they're better than residents. This is a list of hospitals I will be avoiding out of pure principles. It might not do anything, but the ocean was made drop by drop
 
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Here is a list of
PA Emergency Medicine Residency Programs

Albany Medical Center - Albany, NY
Albert Einstein Medical Center - Philadelphia, PA
ArrowHead Regional Medical Center - Colton, CA
Atrium Health - Charlotte, NC
Baylor College of Medicine - Houston, TX
Capitol Emergency Associates of TeamHealth - Austin, TX
Carilion Clinic - Roanoke, VA
Gunderson Health Emergency Medicine PA Fellowship - La Crosse, WI
St. Luke's Hospital - Bethlehem, PA
Jane R. Perlman / NorthShore University Health System - Evanstone, IL
Johns Hopkins Bayview Hospital - Baltimore, MD
University of Kentucky - Lexington, KY
Marquette University Aurora Health - Milwaukee, WI
Mayo Clinic Minnesota - Rochester, MN
University of Missouri - Colombia, MO
Nemours/Alfred duPont Hospital for Children - Wilmington, DE
New York Presbyterian Weill Cornell Medical Center - NY
NYU Langone Health Advanced Practice Provider Fellowship in Emergency Medicine - NY
Regions Hospital - St. Paul, MN
Staten Island University Hospital - Staten Island, NY
Team Health EMAPC Fellowship - OKC
Team Health EMAPC Fellowship - Orlando FL
University of Iowa - Iowa City
University of New Mexico School of Medicine - Alberquerque, NM
UCSF Fresno
Yale New Haven Hospital - New Haven, CT
Post-Graduate Advanced Practice Provider (APP) Emergency Medicine Fellowship At Lakeland Regional Health - Lakeland, FL


I do not know the salaries at these places, but I am willing to guess that they're better than residents. This is a list of hospitals I will be avoiding out of pure principles. It might not do anything, but the ocean was made drop by drop

That’s some excellent work.

Edit: I doubt this is a complete list for each specialty, but it aligns fairly well with the Emergency list

 
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Here is a list of
PA Emergency Medicine Residency Programs

Albany Medical Center - Albany, NY
Albert Einstein Medical Center - Philadelphia, PA
ArrowHead Regional Medical Center - Colton, CA
Atrium Health - Charlotte, NC
Baylor College of Medicine - Houston, TX
Capitol Emergency Associates of TeamHealth - Austin, TX
Carilion Clinic - Roanoke, VA
Gunderson Health Emergency Medicine PA Fellowship - La Crosse, WI
St. Luke's Hospital - Bethlehem, PA
Jane R. Perlman / NorthShore University Health System - Evanstone, IL
Johns Hopkins Bayview Hospital - Baltimore, MD
University of Kentucky - Lexington, KY
Marquette University Aurora Health - Milwaukee, WI
Mayo Clinic Minnesota - Rochester, MN
University of Missouri - Colombia, MO
Nemours/Alfred duPont Hospital for Children - Wilmington, DE
New York Presbyterian Weill Cornell Medical Center - NY
NYU Langone Health Advanced Practice Provider Fellowship in Emergency Medicine - NY
Regions Hospital - St. Paul, MN
Staten Island University Hospital - Staten Island, NY
Team Health EMAPC Fellowship - OKC
Team Health EMAPC Fellowship - Orlando FL
University of Iowa - Iowa City
University of New Mexico School of Medicine - Alberquerque, NM
UCSF Fresno
Yale New Haven Hospital - New Haven, CT
Post-Graduate Advanced Practice Provider (APP) Emergency Medicine Fellowship At Lakeland Regional Health - Lakeland, FL


I do not know the salaries at these places, but I am willing to guess that they're better than residents. This is a list of hospitals I will be avoiding out of pure principles. It might not do anything, but the ocean was made drop by drop

Surprised to see places like Mayo on there.

It would be nice if med students emailed PDs at those places and told them why they're not ranking their program.

Also, can this list be posted on the EM forums and other places??
 
Surprised to see places like Mayo on there.

It would be nice if med students emailed PDs at those places and told them why they're not ranking their program.

Also, can this list be posted on the EM forums and other places??
It's more likely to be coming out of an ivory tower. The academic physicians who work 4 clinical days a month will do anything to climb the corporate ladder. You think people will stop ranking Mayo because of this?
 
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It's more likely to be coming out of an ivory tower. The academic physicians who work 4 clinical days a month will do anything to climb the corporate ladder. You think people will stop ranking Mayo because of this?
No but it'll affect some of those programs. More importantly, if MS4s can contact those programs that's even better.

Why don't these places open EM fellowships for FM docs instead? If the goal is to help fill the gap in underserved areas, why not further train actual physicians?
 
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No but it'll affect some of those programs. More importantly, if MS4s can contact those programs that's even better.

Why don't these places open EM fellowships for FM docs instead? If the goal is to help fill the gap in underserved areas, why not further train actual physicians?
This is where things get muddy. That would mean to create more supply of EM docs and it's a sensitive subject in the EM subforum. On the other hand, they can't seem to control their midlevels.
 
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This is where things get muddy. That would mean to create more supply of EM docs and it's a sensitive subject in the EM subforum. On the other hand, they can't seem to control their midlevels.
Oh I know. They'd rather have the sky literally fall than have an FM doc work in an ED. They'll say the fellowship FM doc is poorly trained (lolol) and then turn around and sign off on midlevel charts in a heartbeat.
It's delusional market protectionism. They don't realize that they're training their own literal replacements. But still fight to protect the market from other doctors.
 
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Can't imagine a future where I'll actually be having conversations like this.

Friend: Do you know him?
Me: Oh yeah, I know him. He's a resident.
Friend: What kind of resident?
Me: Emergency medicine
Friend: No I mean what kind?
Me: What do you mean?
Friend: Like is he a PA or NP?
Me: ....

*Shudders*

Gotta love the rampant and perpetual dilution of job titles.
 
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There needs to be a sticky thread exposing all the programs that disrespect future physicians by paying a PA/NP residents more than the MD/DO residents.

Programs will start to care if they start filling their applicants from SOAP. Forget the prestige measurement bet #10-40. Competitive fellowship placement at these places will be similar. At the end of the day, we all know that the so called prestige ratings on doximity and other sources are gamed by a bunch of academic docs getting together and fudging the #s anyway.
 
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This story reminded me of something that I experienced as early as an MS3. During my ob/gyn clerkship's L&D week, I had to sit by while I saw the residents run to call the PA "fellow" for a delivery, over and over again, while us, medical students, stood idly by. My entire week on that service I assisted with one delivery, while the PA "fellow" got first dibs. I was also very clear with the residents at the beginning of that week that I was interested in ob/gyn and wanted to do a few deliveries. And I was lucky, many of my colleagues didn't get a single delivery. That was a turning point for me, to see residents themselves choosing to train PA 'fellows' over medical students.
 
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This story reminded me of something that I experienced as early as an MS3. During my ob/gyn clerkship's L&D week, I had to sit by while I saw the residents run to call the PA "fellow" for a delivery, over and over again, while us, medical students, stood idly by. My entire week on that service I assisted with one delivery, while the PA "fellow" got first dibs. I was also very clear with the residents at the beginning of that week that I was interested in ob/gyn and wanted to do a few deliveries. And I was lucky, many of my colleagues didn't get a single delivery. That was a turning point for me, to see residents themselves choosing to train PA 'fellows' over medical students.

LOL Saw this crap in Anesthesiology in term of intubation, and I cross that specialty off my list.
 
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Get ready to cross many more off the list as midlevels are everywhere now, including surgery.

True. I am already working on a side gig that will be fully operational in a decade if clinical medicine doesn't work out.
 
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Oh I know. They'd rather have the sky literally fall than have an FM doc work in an ED. They'll say the fellowship FM doc is poorly trained (lolol) and then turn around and sign off on midlevel charts in a heartbeat.
It's delusional market protectionism. They don't realize that they're training their own literal replacements. But still fight to protect the market from other doctors.

False on so many levels. Come on now. EM physicians sign midlevels charts because you don't have a job without doing it. You have no say. You either sign or get fired, not because they think these pretend doctors are providing good care. There's a few ivory tower places (like UNC) training midlevels because their so far removed from reality sucking themselves off they have no idea what the EM world is really like.

And we have plenty of board certified EM physicians coming through with the recent expansion and we'll be in an over supply. We don't need NPPs/Midlevels and we don't need FM "EM trained" docs either. The market is already failing.
 
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False on so many levels. Come on now. EM physicians sign midlevels charts because you don't have a job without doing it. You have no say. You either sign or get fired, not because they think these pretend doctors are providing good care. There's a few ivory tower places (like UNC) training midlevels because their so far removed from reality sucking themselves off they have no idea what the EM world is really like.

And we have plenty of board certified EM physicians coming through with the recent expansion and we'll be in am over supply. We don't need NPPs/Midlevels and we don't need FM "EM trained" docs either. The market is already failing.
Who is forcing EM docs to go into the rural areas and take jobs where you sign off on midlevel charts while you're at home? And maybe if there was more unity, you could prevent this whole chart signing thing within big hospitals.
 
Who is forcing EM docs to go into the rural areas and take jobs where you sign off on midlevel charts while you're at home? And maybe if there was more unity, you could prevent this whole chart signing thing within big hospitals.
You honestly have no idea what you're even talking about.
 
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Here is a list of
PA Emergency Medicine Residency Programs

Albany Medical Center - Albany, NY
Albert Einstein Medical Center - Philadelphia, PA
ArrowHead Regional Medical Center - Colton, CA
Atrium Health - Charlotte, NC
Baylor College of Medicine - Houston, TX
Capitol Emergency Associates of TeamHealth - Austin, TX
Carilion Clinic - Roanoke, VA
Gunderson Health Emergency Medicine PA Fellowship - La Crosse, WI
St. Luke's Hospital - Bethlehem, PA
Jane R. Perlman / NorthShore University Health System - Evanstone, IL
Johns Hopkins Bayview Hospital - Baltimore, MD
University of Kentucky - Lexington, KY
Marquette University Aurora Health - Milwaukee, WI
Mayo Clinic Minnesota - Rochester, MN
University of Missouri - Colombia, MO
Nemours/Alfred duPont Hospital for Children - Wilmington, DE
New York Presbyterian Weill Cornell Medical Center - NY
NYU Langone Health Advanced Practice Provider Fellowship in Emergency Medicine - NY
Regions Hospital - St. Paul, MN
Staten Island University Hospital - Staten Island, NY
Team Health EMAPC Fellowship - OKC
Team Health EMAPC Fellowship - Orlando FL
University of Iowa - Iowa City
University of New Mexico School of Medicine - Alberquerque, NM
UCSF Fresno
Yale New Haven Hospital - New Haven, CT
Post-Graduate Advanced Practice Provider (APP) Emergency Medicine Fellowship At Lakeland Regional Health - Lakeland, FL


I do not know the salaries at these places, but I am willing to guess that they're better than residents. This is a list of hospitals I will be avoiding out of pure principles. It might not do anything, but the ocean was made drop by drop

OK, so I was curious, so I dug around a bit and searched a few places. I actually couldn't find many, and I didn't spend much time on this, but it seems to vary significantly program-to-program and many pay them about the same. I wonder if this is directly related to PA salary. PAs don't require a residency, so training them would probably require paying them slightly below what they would get out in practice.

ArrowHead Regional Medical Center - Colton, CA - EM PA and EM PGY-1s get paid the same ($55k)
St. Luke's Hospital - Bethlehem, PA - EM PA gets $59k and EM PGY-1 gets $58k
Johns Hopkins Bayview Hospital - Baltimore, MD - EM PA gets $48k and EM PGY-1 gets $55k
Mayo Clinic Minnesota - Rochester, MN - EM PA gets $60k and EM PGY-1 get $57.6k
NYU Langone Health Advanced Practice Provider Fellowship in Emergency Medicine - NY - salary not easily found, vague reference to "competitive" salary for the PAs
University of Iowa - Iowa City - EM PA and EM PGY-1s get paid the same ($57.8k)... although the FM PA residents get paid $70k
University of New Mexico School of Medicine - Alberquerque, NM - EM PA gets $57k and EM PGY-1 gets $54k
UCSF Fresno - EM PA gets $60k/yr and EM PGY-1s get $59k

I honestly don't care if they get paid more. We should also get paid more sure, but I think that's a separate argument. What I do care about is if they get paid more and they get more access to training (e.g. priority for procedures, etc.). They shouldn't be getting trained at the expense of medical resident training.
 
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OK, so I was curious, so I dug around a bit and searched a few places. I actually couldn't find many, and I didn't spend much time on this, but it seems to vary significantly program-to-program and many pay them about the same. I wonder if this is directly related to PA salary. PAs don't require a residency, so training them would probably require paying them slightly below what they would get out in practice.

ArrowHead Regional Medical Center - Colton, CA - EM PA and EM PGY-1s get paid the same ($55k)
St. Luke's Hospital - Bethlehem, PA - EM PA gets $59k and EM PGY-1 gets $58k
Johns Hopkins Bayview Hospital - Baltimore, MD - EM PA gets $48k and EM PGY-1 gets $55k
Mayo Clinic Minnesota - Rochester, MN - EM PA gets $60k and EM PGY-1 get $57.6k
NYU Langone Health Advanced Practice Provider Fellowship in Emergency Medicine - NY - salary not easily found, vague reference to "competitive" salary for the PAs
University of Iowa - Iowa City - EM PA and EM PGY-1s get paid the same ($57.8k)... although the FM PA residents get paid $70k
University of New Mexico School of Medicine - Alberquerque, NM - EM PA gets $57k and EM PGY-1 gets $54k
UCSF Fresno - EM PA gets $60k/yr and EM PGY-1s get $59k

I honestly don't care if they get paid more. We should also get paid more sure, but I think that's a separate argument. What I do care about is if they get paid more and they get more access to training (e.g. priority for procedures, etc.). They shouldn't be getting trained at the expense of medical resident training.
I would not be surprised if the excuse "they are only here for 1 year, let them get this intubation/chest tube/beside thoracotomy, you'll get it next time" used in these situations

What bothers me the most is they get paid more for these training opportunity because it's optional for them. The medical school graduates are **** out of luck, even just to practice as a mid level
 
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OK, so I was curious, so I dug around a bit and searched a few places. I actually couldn't find many, and I didn't spend much time on this, but it seems to vary significantly program-to-program and many pay them about the same. I wonder if this is directly related to PA salary. PAs don't require a residency, so training them would probably require paying them slightly below what they would get out in practice.

ArrowHead Regional Medical Center - Colton, CA - EM PA and EM PGY-1s get paid the same ($55k)
St. Luke's Hospital - Bethlehem, PA - EM PA gets $59k and EM PGY-1 gets $58k
Johns Hopkins Bayview Hospital - Baltimore, MD - EM PA gets $48k and EM PGY-1 gets $55k
Mayo Clinic Minnesota - Rochester, MN - EM PA gets $60k and EM PGY-1 get $57.6k
NYU Langone Health Advanced Practice Provider Fellowship in Emergency Medicine - NY - salary not easily found, vague reference to "competitive" salary for the PAs
University of Iowa - Iowa City - EM PA and EM PGY-1s get paid the same ($57.8k)... although the FM PA residents get paid $70k
University of New Mexico School of Medicine - Alberquerque, NM - EM PA gets $57k and EM PGY-1 gets $54k
UCSF Fresno - EM PA gets $60k/yr and EM PGY-1s get $59k

I honestly don't care if they get paid more. We should also get paid more sure, but I think that's a separate argument. What I do care about is if they get paid more and they get more access to training (e.g. priority for procedures, etc.). They shouldn't be getting trained at the expense of medical resident training.
wtf ?? How do the residents even tolerate that?
And wth is a "FM PA resident" lololol. Geez this nonsense never ends.
 
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What in the heck is UNC doing??

I feel like this field is going downhill at an accelerating rate. I'm only an M1, I should switch to investment banking and start making 150K right out of the gate like all my non-medicine friends /s


If it bothers you that much, make the switch.
 
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Folks on reddit have been unranking the program and writing to the PD telling them exactly why they did it. I hope others do the same.

Have fun with that. Those idiots are only hurting themselves. The program will have zero problems matching quality candidates.
 
No but it'll affect some of those programs. More importantly, if MS4s can contact those programs that's even better.

Why don't these places open EM fellowships for FM docs instead?

Because there are already EM residencies for doctors who want to practice EM. If you want to practice EM, just do an EM residency. Why would anybody who wants to practice EM do a FP residency?
 
You honestly have no idea what you're even talking about.
Whatever you say dude. I've seen EM staff docs with my own eyes defend midlevels, trust their poor judgement, and enthusiastically teach them.
 
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I would not be surprised if the excuse "they are only here for 1 year, let them get this intubation/chest tube/beside thoracotomy, you'll get it next time" used in these situations

What bothers me the most is they get paid more for these training opportunity because it's optional for them. The medical school graduates are **** out of luck, even just to practice as a mid level

I've literally seen the bolded happen. Even just over the last few years it seems like its gotten worse here. Its even worse when the PA/NP student or SRNA gets first shot at things before the residents. Its ridiculous.
 
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Have fun with that. Those idiots are only hurting themselves. The program will have zero problems matching quality candidates.

How are they hurting themselves by avoiding a residency that takes training and procedures away from residents, is relatively new, and now stuck with a questionable reputation? Even if I were desperate to match I’d stick this program at the bottom of my match list.
 
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Because there are already EM residencies for doctors who want to practice EM. If you want to practice EM, just do an EM residency. Why would anybody who wants to practice EM do a FP residency?
Their entire mission is to train *solo* midlevel "providers" for underserved areas. That's also the case for every bootleg midlevel residency. And ER work in those settings has traditionally been by FM docs. Hence all the reason to train the latter, and not the former.
 
Hurting themselves by avoiding a residency that takes training and procedures away from residents? Even if I were desperate to match I’d stick this program at the bottom of my match list.

SDN has a major fixation with procedures. So strange because 98% of procedural specialists become fantastic at procedures regardless of their training environment and the other 2% are just hopeless.
 
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I've literally seen the bolded happen. Even just over the last few years it seems like its gotten worse here. Its even worse when the PA/NP student or SRNA gets first shot at things before the residents. Its ridiculous.

That is insane. But what is more tragic is attendings trying to justify this practice
 
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A lot of displaced anger in this thread. Should people be also be getting upset that RNs make more than residents? The fact that residents make so little is something that the medical profession has to address and getting angry at everyone else is not going to solve anything.
 
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SDN has a major fixation with procedures. So strange because 98% of procedural specialists become fantastic at procedures regardless of their training environment and the other 2% are just hopeless.
In their defense, procedures are fun and I like doing them. It's like a mini-reward for all my time writing notes, rounding, dealing with patients' shenanigans. Therefore, I am very protective of my procedures
 
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Whatever you say dude. I've seen EM staff docs with my own eyes defend midlevels, trust their poor judgement, and enthusiastically teach them.

How do you expect midlevels to improve their “poor judgement” if nobody teaches them?
 
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A lot of displaced anger in this thread. Should people be also be getting upset that RNs make more than residents? The fact that residents make so little is something that the medical profession has to address and getting angry at everyone else is not going to solve anything.

For the record, I got paid $28000 as an intern in nyc in 1992 and it was plenty. I know an older surgeon who got paid nothing but was provided room and board at Bellevue while he was doing q2 call.
 
SDN has a major fixation with procedures. So strange because 98% of procedural specialists become fantastic at procedures regardless of their training environment and the other 2% are just hopeless.

No way. Maybe for simple procedures like paracenteses or chest tubes. More complicated ones or rare ones need as much experience as possible. Under your logic, why do we have MIS and HPB fellowships? Surely general surgeons straight out of training should be fantastic at TAPPs from the 10-15 they’ve done in residency.

For the record, I got paid $28000 as an intern in nyc in 1992 and it was plenty. I know an older surgeon who got paid nothing but was provided room and board at Bellevue while he was doing q2 call.

Not sure what you’re trying to say here. I know a pediatric neurologist who switched residencies 3 times, spent 11 years on training and is now paid 140k a year. Surely we should be emulating their great financial wisdom.
 
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How do you expect midlevels to improve their “poor judgement” if nobody teaches them?
How is it my responsibility to teach them? They keep preaching equivalence and superiority to doctors, yet they can't even train their own? lololol.
And cmon dude, the fact that you're advocating to train your replacement shows how out of touch with reality you are.

For the record, I got paid $28000 as an intern in nyc in 1992 and it was plenty. I know an older surgeon who got paid nothing but was provided room and board at Bellevue while he was doing q2 call.
Ah... so you're the generation who ruined It.
 
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