PA or CNA?
- Thread starter doctorcynical
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All I can say is this. Becoming either a CRNA or PA should never be a backup plan for not getting into medical school. You will never be happy in the long-run if you choose something that is not your number 1 goal. If you want to be a physician, than become a physician. If you don't get in the first year, find out what you will need to become more competetive, work on that and and then re-apply. Consider foreign schools if you have to. Just don't give up your dream and settle for something else, whatever it happens to be.
Good luck.
Good luck.
D
deleted6669
a cna(nursing assistant) is a 1 month course in changing diapers and giving sponge baths at a nursing home....I assume you mean crna(nurse anesthetist). both pa and crna require significant prior experience which most medschool applicants don't have......
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(Thanks for the clarification, emedpa... I was wondering why CNA's and PA's were being compared... they're toward opposite ends of the healthcare spectrum.)
If you cannot get into medical school for some reason, it is even less likely that you would be able to get into a PA school, which has similar requirements plus (usually) significant previous patient-contact experience plus a lot more competition for each slot in class.
You may need to start off as an EMT or RN or sugery tech (etc.) for a year or two, while you prepare for PA school, if you'd really like to be a PA. It's a great profession, with an excellent attitude toward patient care and partnership with other healthcare professionals.
Best wishes to you in your journey!
--Tim--
If you cannot get into medical school for some reason, it is even less likely that you would be able to get into a PA school, which has similar requirements plus (usually) significant previous patient-contact experience plus a lot more competition for each slot in class.
You may need to start off as an EMT or RN or sugery tech (etc.) for a year or two, while you prepare for PA school, if you'd really like to be a PA. It's a great profession, with an excellent attitude toward patient care and partnership with other healthcare professionals.
Best wishes to you in your journey!
--Tim--
B
Brachial_Plexus
I guess I should have studied even harder in college, done even more extracurricular activities, and volunteered more hours at the hospital so I could have gotten into PA school. Oh well, I guess I'll have to settle for being a lowly physician. 🙄
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Ha! Right down the median nerve, Brachial_Plexus.
Not comparing quality of education or amount of ambition... just saying that PA school has fewer slots per applicant than med school, and the pre-requisites are pretty much the same. But because PA school crams medical studies into a shorter timeframe (basically we cover 1/2 of what you'd cover in first year and just about everything you'd cover in second year, and we only have one year of rotations instead of two) having prior healthcare experience is much more important than it is for a med school applicant. I'm sure I'm not the only PA student who had medical school as his "Plan B" in case he didn't get in PA school.
🙂 Life is fun. 🙂 Enjoy.
--Tim--
"This world's a rough place... not one of us is going to make it out of here alive."
Not comparing quality of education or amount of ambition... just saying that PA school has fewer slots per applicant than med school, and the pre-requisites are pretty much the same. But because PA school crams medical studies into a shorter timeframe (basically we cover 1/2 of what you'd cover in first year and just about everything you'd cover in second year, and we only have one year of rotations instead of two) having prior healthcare experience is much more important than it is for a med school applicant. I'm sure I'm not the only PA student who had medical school as his "Plan B" in case he didn't get in PA school.
🙂 Life is fun. 🙂 Enjoy.
--Tim--
"This world's a rough place... not one of us is going to make it out of here alive."
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- Attending Physician
timerick,
are you purposely trying to start flame wars..........holy cow.
"medical school as your backup to PA school"!!
dude you have opened yourself up again to a neverending litany of ridiculous MD v.s. PA bashing.
later
are you purposely trying to start flame wars..........holy cow.
"medical school as your backup to PA school"!!
dude you have opened yourself up again to a neverending litany of ridiculous MD v.s. PA bashing.
later
"(basically we cover 1/2 of what you'd cover in first year and just about everything you'd cover in second year, and we only have one year of rotations instead of two)"
this is exactly wat i was trying to say this whole forum is just competition like i said before, this is not a tournament for who is better than anyone else...if you ask anyone what PA school is like, they will tell you it is med school crammed into 1 year I was in no way saying that we learn just as much and I was not degrading any medical students, everyone needs to take a breather and stop looking for reasons to light flames...Of course PAs dont learn all the pathophys we learn the bare minimun to get us through...so calm down med students I wasnt putting you down or saying anything derogatory...I hear every single day from all my faculty that we need to deal with our workload because we are pretty much doing med school in 2 years...enough said take no offense!
this is exactly wat i was trying to say this whole forum is just competition like i said before, this is not a tournament for who is better than anyone else...if you ask anyone what PA school is like, they will tell you it is med school crammed into 1 year I was in no way saying that we learn just as much and I was not degrading any medical students, everyone needs to take a breather and stop looking for reasons to light flames...Of course PAs dont learn all the pathophys we learn the bare minimun to get us through...so calm down med students I wasnt putting you down or saying anything derogatory...I hear every single day from all my faculty that we need to deal with our workload because we are pretty much doing med school in 2 years...enough said take no offense!
B
Brachial_Plexus
Wow.....you disillusioned young girl! To think that your "training" is what you state above is pure insanity. Two years of intense didactics plus two years doing clinical rotations being equivalent to 2 years in PA training?!?! What the hell are you smoking? Get real.......
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Ok all, lets give Jenn and Tim a breather and instead hear it from someone who has some experience on both sides of the fence. Yes, it is true, many PA students could have easily got into medical school. What many medical students don't realize is that because PA school is so fast, you really need to have a basic understanding of medicine before you start. A medical school applicant is not the ideal PA applicant because they usually are too heavily weighted in basic sciences which a PA simply does not need to practice. PA schools almost universally all require A&P, nutrition, biochem, and micro. Show me a medical school that requires that. Most med schools want the core pre-reqs while PA schools are moving toward having the person already have much of the basics before coming. So a medical school applicant with a 3.9 GPA and a BS in biology is no more qualified to go to PA school than the paramedic with a 3.1, the bare pre-reqs, and years of experience. And truth be told, why wouldn't someone want to use medical school as a backup plan? I mean as a PA, you can be practicing in 2-3 years, and be 5-6 years ahead of med students in income potential. Had I chosen the more financially lucrative option, I would have stayed a PA. I was a PA at age 27, and I was making 6 figs a year until I decided to go medical school. Will I ever make that 700,000 dollars back over time?? I doubt it. But it was my choice. So yes, in the beginning, medical school was my backup plan too, and eventually I simply chose to do both. For me, both decisions were correct!
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you are missing the whole point, you are only reading what you want to read...Im not saying that PAs education is equivalent to an MD, im just trying to show how intense our education is, and it really is medical school cut down trimmed and crammed into 2 years, but in no way equivalent. for goodness sake this is not a hard concept to understand...no one is taking away your expertise and your great knowledge, I respect Drs for all their education and i am in no way trying to compete or say that PAs are the equivalent because if they were then who would go to med school?!
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I don't think I'm creating flaming wars to say that I had med school as a back up if I didn't get into PA school. There are tons of PA school applicants who have that strategy.
I had a 4.0 GPA in all my premed courses, but I didn't have very strong experience in patient contact. (Mine was based mostly on community health work in the Amazon, some work with hospice, and some work in a heroine addicition rehabilitation program in Spain... not a strong background when you're competing with paramedics and BSN's for a very limited number of slots.) Medical schools generally don't expect years of health care experience, and half the applicants find a slot their first year trying (compared to 1/5 of PA school applicants), and I think I would have gotten in, especially with my ethnic/racial mix. It makes a pretty good Plan B for someone like me.
No flames.... just the facts of life.
I had a 4.0 GPA in all my premed courses, but I didn't have very strong experience in patient contact. (Mine was based mostly on community health work in the Amazon, some work with hospice, and some work in a heroine addicition rehabilitation program in Spain... not a strong background when you're competing with paramedics and BSN's for a very limited number of slots.) Medical schools generally don't expect years of health care experience, and half the applicants find a slot their first year trying (compared to 1/5 of PA school applicants), and I think I would have gotten in, especially with my ethnic/racial mix. It makes a pretty good Plan B for someone like me.
No flames.... just the facts of life.
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I agree with everything you are saying Tim with one continued exception. To say that only 1/5 of PA applicants get in to PA school the first try, whether it is true or not, has nothing to do with the percentage that get into medical school. You are comparing completely different entry requirements and completely different professions. I mean if you want to put it that way, it is more competitive to try and get into Spacecamp than medical school, but somehow I doubt that the kids applying for Spacecamp would have the right credentials for medical school. You make it sound like half of the people who want to go to medical school will get in. Its not quite that simple. Think of it this way.
500 people from a particular undergrad want to go to medical school.
150 fail organic chemistry and need never apply after that, or choose not to. HURDLE #1
150 more fail physics and need not apply. HURDLE #2
100 score poorly on the MCAT HURDLE #3
50 score acceptable on the MCAT
50 score above average on the MCAT
How many of these people do you think apply to medical school? Somewhere between 100-200 I would gather. Of these, you are correct to presume between 1/3 and 1/2 will get accepted their first time. But this only puts maybe 100 of those original 500 in medical school, which equals your 1/5 number for PA applicants.
Now lets say there are 500 people who want to go to PA school.
150 fail organic, and decide medical school is not worth it. But they realize there are many PA schools that don't require organic or physics. So the physics' failures fit in here as well.
Do you see the number of true hurdles that a medical student must pass to even apply? There are at minimum 3, plus the graduation requirement of most schools.
The vast majority of PA schools do not require a degree, do not require the MCAT, and do not require organic or physics. This is currently changing with more schools going to a Masters Degree, butt this significantly alters your 1/5 statistic and makes it look more competitive than it really is. And of course you are going to say that you aced organic and physics, and did well on the MCAT, and still chose to go to PA school. But that my friend would put you probably in the minority.
Yes, PA school is extremely competitive and no it is not as easy for the traditional medical school applicant to simply convert to a PA applicant, due to different things the schools are looking for. But please stop misleading people with inaccurate stats that you call "Just the Facts of Life".
500 people from a particular undergrad want to go to medical school.
150 fail organic chemistry and need never apply after that, or choose not to. HURDLE #1
150 more fail physics and need not apply. HURDLE #2
100 score poorly on the MCAT HURDLE #3
50 score acceptable on the MCAT
50 score above average on the MCAT
How many of these people do you think apply to medical school? Somewhere between 100-200 I would gather. Of these, you are correct to presume between 1/3 and 1/2 will get accepted their first time. But this only puts maybe 100 of those original 500 in medical school, which equals your 1/5 number for PA applicants.
Now lets say there are 500 people who want to go to PA school.
150 fail organic, and decide medical school is not worth it. But they realize there are many PA schools that don't require organic or physics. So the physics' failures fit in here as well.
Do you see the number of true hurdles that a medical student must pass to even apply? There are at minimum 3, plus the graduation requirement of most schools.
The vast majority of PA schools do not require a degree, do not require the MCAT, and do not require organic or physics. This is currently changing with more schools going to a Masters Degree, butt this significantly alters your 1/5 statistic and makes it look more competitive than it really is. And of course you are going to say that you aced organic and physics, and did well on the MCAT, and still chose to go to PA school. But that my friend would put you probably in the minority.
Yes, PA school is extremely competitive and no it is not as easy for the traditional medical school applicant to simply convert to a PA applicant, due to different things the schools are looking for. But please stop misleading people with inaccurate stats that you call "Just the Facts of Life".
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Would you also say that if someone fails anatomy & physiology or microbiology they could forget PA school and settle for medical school instead, since those courses aren't required? No... it doesn't work that way.
No one who failed organic chemistry or physics would have a chance at getting into PA school. You have to keep a high GPA in all college courses, plus a high GPA in all science courses, *plus* a high GPA in all prerequisite courses. All three GPA's are calculated by CASPA and referred to by application committees. Grades aren't everything, but they do count.
Almost all my classmates at PA school have taken orgo I & II plus biochem as well as the prereq general bio and general chem and A&P and microbiology and statistics. Many have also taken patho, pharma, etc. Not a group of dummies or pre-med dropouts.
Most have 3-10 years of experience as nurses, paramedics, physical therapists, etc.
Good group of top quality people wanting to practice quality medicine on a physician-PA team.
No one who failed organic chemistry or physics would have a chance at getting into PA school. You have to keep a high GPA in all college courses, plus a high GPA in all science courses, *plus* a high GPA in all prerequisite courses. All three GPA's are calculated by CASPA and referred to by application committees. Grades aren't everything, but they do count.
Almost all my classmates at PA school have taken orgo I & II plus biochem as well as the prereq general bio and general chem and A&P and microbiology and statistics. Many have also taken patho, pharma, etc. Not a group of dummies or pre-med dropouts.
Most have 3-10 years of experience as nurses, paramedics, physical therapists, etc.
Good group of top quality people wanting to practice quality medicine on a physician-PA team.
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Do you want to be a physician?
If so, your back up plan should be a different medical school, or working on the things to make your application stronger for the next shot...
CNA = Nursing Assistant. I can't decide which would be a better back up plan in the long run. I feel like I will get more out of CNA training than I will from going to PA school.
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Let me just say that I ( a MS 3 ) did my OBGYN core rotation with a couple of PA students. Everything I did, they did, and the residents/attendings did not differentiate between us (med students) and the PA students. They were very professional and appeared to be at the same level of knowledge as we were.
Peace
Peace
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I think you should pick a career which will make u happy. If u really desire to become a physician...I say stick with it! If u honestly try and cannot get in to any med. school, than if u rellly really want to practice medicine u can probably go the PA route. I had a coworker who didn't get into med school and just got into PA school.....she desperately wants to practice medicine. I think its up to the individual and that person's circumstances....and don't always listen to what other ppl are saying! Follow what u believe!
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OK, Does anybody in here not agree that Drs have more education than PAs? Drs that come here to belittle PAs should be ashamed of themselves. PAs that think they are Drs do not have touch with reality. We work for them and I am sure that Drs that employ us appreciate what we do for the patients and the Dr. This CNA or PA thing has to have been intended as an insult and I doubt that the person that did it is really trying to be serious and should be ignored.
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