PA to Physician

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Finally...I am glad we can no longer be adversarial to each other.

I too am proud of your accomplishments for you... My son starts undergrad at ECU this year with visions of medical school. I pray for him to be strong enough to endure. Medicine is all he's ever been exposed to. His mother is an NP and I do my job.

Some PA's work just as hard to get through their school as you have to get through yours. It was just qas hard for them as it has been for you. they are equally as proud of thier accomplishments.

As for the assh*le in your class......the world is full of people who are full of themselves and you cannot be influenced , nor judge others by thier demeanor (did I spell that right?) you can only judge them. You see here how midlevels began judgeing all med students by one or two respondents.

Just do your job the best you know how and, truth be admitted, you will be a boss....remember how you were treated when you weren't a boss and don't treat subordinates, or collegues, whether they are PA's or NP's or whatever that way. I can guarentee you that if you show courtesy and compassion to fellow healthcare workers you will get respect and help from EVERYONE. Show yer ass once and yer labled a "turd" and no one will touch you. No reason to act like that. One "Awww****" will negate 20 "attaboys"...........

'nuff of this Dad-to-son speech......

What'll it be? Coors light, Tequisa, Michelobe?
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Mr. Bob, and Freedom,

Both of your post show a great deal of wisdom. I hope I didn't piss you off too bad Freedom, and I do understand where you come from. I definitely will not be that PA who failed to match. I respect that I have a great deal to learn where I am headed, and am making the journey because I want to learn. Hell, I certainly "aint" making it for the small bump in pay it will give me SEVEN years from now. Good luck in residency Freedom.

Matt
 
I would really like to see a name change fro Physicians assistant to Physician Extender....but, alas, the all mighty AAPA seems to think they know whats best for us and refuse to try to get us the same privileges as NP's or....whatever............

I did not know Duke gave special provisions to PA's wanting to go to their medical school> they may find it a little easier to GET INTO the program but certainly don't get any class cutting privileges.

Besides...who the hell wants to have that expense when they get outta school.....How much do you think it cost to go to Duke?
We have two EXCELLENT state schools here in North Carolina....University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and East Carolina University in Greenville.
Duke is only a name...............
 
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I am a Guiness man...or just a nice "Black and Tan" if they are poured correctly! And the first round is on me.
 
Guiness????????.....you know real men who really work hard for their beer only choose...and then it's so much better than that domestic private beer you med student's like to.............(LOL)
Sorry....couldn't help myself
 
Not that this is getting too far off the topic but, one of my favorites is a beer called New Castle. It is relitively new up in western NY, has it been around long where you are? Delisious dark beer---not too hopy.
 
New Castle.....a Doc friend of mine drank some last night at Outback with us and I was a bit afraid to try it, most darks are bitter to me....Going to Myrtle Beach this weekend for a log weekend ride (oops sorry didn't mean to rub that in) <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> and will try some...........

70 degrees down here........(oops did it again) :cool:

this topic needed to go somewhere besides a p*ssin' contest, don't you agree, Bandit? A discussion about a good beer never hurts.
 
70 huh? Damn, it got up to 50 today, but of course --rain.
 
Yeah...was watching the national weather today and saw rain in the Upper New York area and thought of you.

If you follow I-95 down to Lumberton, North Carolina (below Fayetteville) we are about 17 miles west on hwy 211.

Have a nice weekend anyway.....
 
New Castle is nice but lots of sugar, it is like a Bock (leaves a sticky feeling on your lips when you drink it out of a glass), so it isn't very "hoppy" at all. Stout beer is where the action is...my brother in law is from Ireland, and since I am of German ancestory, I can't let him drink more than me.
I lived in St. Louis for a year (for my 3rd year) and I enjoyed Budweiser...but it just doesn't have enough "UMMPH" and all it does for me is make be p!ss.
Perhaps the best beer on the planet is Celis White (from Texas) or Old Peculiar from England. If you can handle 6 Old Peculiar...then you are a true man!
 
This has been a very interesting topic. I just wanted to let you guys know that I respect all of you...PAs, soon to be medical students, and soon to be physician. I believe that each one of you have knowledge, experience, and wisdom that will not only benefit your collegues and the health care professional team but especially your patients.

I am currently finishing up my first year of medical school and I greatly appreciate any medical knowledge that is passed down to me from whomever...nurse, EMT, PA, resident, intern, fellow medical student. I pray that there are more people out there who are as or just as passionately about their careers as you guys are.

None of us are the same and we each have our specific roles in the health care field. When everything is said and done, we are all a team put together to serve our patients and I feel that you all are more than capable of that and I feel good knowing that there are still people out here who care about what they do.

I wish nothing but the best for you all. And Mr. Bob, could you send some of that nice weather up here to Pennsylvania :clap:
 
Anyone from the Chicago area heard of a beer called something like Goose Island? It is a brewery up there that makes the best damn beer I ever tasted. It is like a Shiner Bock from Shiner, Tx, but even better. I tatsed it in 99 at the PA conference in Chitown, and I always have people bring me back some when they go up there now.
 
this is an interesting topic so here's my two cents. First of all pamatt congrads on your admission to med school and you should definately go for it. now the low down pa school(or for that matter virtually for that matter any other graduate school) is really not comparable at all to med school for a number of reasons. In med school your going to study things in much greater depth in your first three years than you could ever have envisioned. The other thing that makes med school so grueling is that your in there with the some of the smartest people in the world.. i mean some real machines and no matter how laid back you are, your going to want to keep pace with everybody else or your going to get the feeling that your being left behind and this can be a very lonely feeling. furthermore the exams you take in medschool are some of the toughest that you'll ever take and believe me once you take a shelf exam you'll know exactly what i'm talking about. the rigors of med school can't be explained in words, you have to go through it to know what it's all about. Believe me med school will be one of the most humbling experiences of your life.
 
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This last post by Godfather is an example of how people just simply have no idea what PA education is about. You must think that PA schools are on the "outskirts" of a medical school campus and have no contact with medical schools themselves. I can assure you that when myself and my colleagues were sitting in the SAME EXACT classes that med students were in that this was not a dream. And when we took the EXACT SAME exams it was not a watered down version. Yes, we did not do four years, but what we did do ran concurrent with the med students. At Baylor for instance, the PA's also take the same Gross, Biochem, Cell Bio, as an example. Please do not think that we as PA's had some form of inferior training that took place in some trailer "outside the hospital". The real difference between a PA and a physician's training is not difficulty, but length of time in school. I will give credit where it is due and say that med school students have to endure the pain for longer, but the pain is no more severe. Did you not have PA students in your medical school courses Godfather?
 
actually we do have pa students but your totally missing the point here. For example at the hospitols when we rotate in surgery it's true we have pa's on the team and they do alot of the same things a junior med student will do as far as floor work and even attend the same conferences. this is all nice but med students also have to take a shelf exam at the end of the rotation and are often graded versus other med students. And believe me the shelf exam is no joke(med school exams are some of the hardest exams that i have ever taken and depending on if you want to go into something competitive(like derm) you have to actually do good on these exams. everybody in med school is and has been a achiever all of their lives, or otherwise they wouldn't be there, and your often times competing with these guys because everybody wants the residency of choice. now when your competing with 200 people that were the mac daddy's of their respective colleges even easy classes(which are few and far between)become superhard as people are trying to just maintain the class AVERAGE. yes sometimes you guys are doing some of the same subjects as us but i doubt if you guys take the same exams or are graded against the med students. thus the pressure of pa school is nothing like the pressure of med school and you'll find that out when you start med school. just remember when you start that most of the 200 people around you in your class were the smartest people out of their respective colleges and these machines are what your going to be gauged against. Its one thing to take gross anatomy, even a junior high student can TAKE anatomy but its a whole different thing to take the medschool anatomy exams, usmle 1,2and 3 the shelves and do well enough on all of this to get into your field.
i was a 4.0 student in college got 12's straight on the mcat and without sounding arrogant had always felt like i was one of the top 2 or 3 students no matter what class i was in until i got into med school where i worked a hundred times harder (and i mean not seeing the light of day during some periods) and still always... well let's just say it was a very humiliating experience. Anyways good luck and i really hope you post about your experinces after you have done a year or two of med school because it will be interesting to see how (if they do change at all) your views have changed. There's usually a few people in every med school class that were in some other health care field earlier, and i have seen alot of times where these guys struggle tremendously as they're simply not use to 1 the work load 2 difficult exams and 3 the fierce competition of med school. Although these guys do often finish med school they struggle badly alot of times (for eg take time off, fail courses, take the boards multiple times before passing). The classic examples is the oral surgery people. these people finish dental school(and mind you they re the top 2 or 3 students in their dental school or otherwise they won't get into the program) and then do years 2,3and 4 of med school and have to pass step 1 and 2 so they finish they have both a md and thier dental degree. Needless to say the attrition rate is like 40% as many of these guys can't either handle the medschool workload or more often can't pass the boards. now i'm not generalizing about all dental students or pa's or any other field, because many of you guys i'm sure are very bright, but if you think any other professional school remotely compares to med school your sadly mistaken. Furthermore if you think the only differance between pa school and med school is the length of training i still think your mistaken big time, even if you are with medstudents on the wards or in the labs, or conferences, your not with them while their taking their exams, your not competing with other med students and you don't have the pressure of board exams hovering over you, all of this creates a more intense enviroment that basically forces med students to learn that much more and better than it does people in other fields. That's why there's almost always a huge differenc in fund of knowledge between a pa student and a med student who have had similar years of training.
 
Godfather,

I have to agree with a lot of what you just said. Even though we took the same exams in the courses we were in with med students, we knew there was nothing looming overhead regarding our scores that would affect our future residencies or USMLE. That is a pressure that I just don't understand, but one that I am looking forward to going through. I also intentionally chose an osteopathic school because I am versed in primary care as a PA, and osteopathic schools seem to have slightly less esoteric BS, while focusing more on primary care. Hopefully this will cut out some of the very crazy irrelevent stuff that research-rich MD programs feed their students just because they happen to have a researcher who is an expert in it. At one MD school in Texas, I met a student at the interview that told me to not come to the program because the pre-clinical education was pointless. They had to take an entire 12 weeks of intense virology because they had a PhD virologist who lectured heavy about every aspect of all herpes viruses and many, many more. I mean lets face it, if you know Varicella, KS, Simplex I and II, and most of the adult/pedi viruses that affect GI and UResp, you can be a pretty efficient practitioner. I think you probably had to go through a lot of that stuff, but I am hoping not to do quite as much of it. My school is now in year 3 of the system-based approach for years one and two. But all said, I don't expect this is going to be very easy, or even very fun at times! Thanks for your kind responses in the wake of slight disagreement. I wish you luck Dr. Godfather.
 
godfathger,
"That's why there's almost always a huge differenc in fund of knowledge between a pa student and a med student who have had similar years of training."

This is imply not the case most of the time. First, what makes yopu think there are not shelf exams for PA`s? I took two exams a month when I was in rotations. One for the rotaion I was on and the other was pre set. Both were just as difficult. There is also the matter of the nation exams all PA`s are required to take. (PANCE)

This knowledge gap you speek of may exist in some PA`s, but for the most part a new grad. PA and a new med student grad are virtually the same. There is no real difference in clinical aspects that the PA can not operate evenly in. The difference is in the residency. I personally teach med students and PA`s (as a PA) and to be honest -- most good PA`s can run circles around a first or second year resident -- period. Once they get to the third year than of course the med student will get better. There really is no questuion of that.

PA programs are as tough or tougher to get into than most medical school. In my school they stopped taking applications at 500--interviewed 125--and excepted 30. Trust me -- these are indeed some of the brightest people you know. The copetition is every bit as tough. PA programs are notoriously faster paced than med school and all the info is crammed into you in a very short time -- ALL to be retained. That is why it is so impotant to screen for strong candidates for PA school.

This is not taking anything away from med scxhool. If I were a younger man I would even go myself.
 
your kidding right. to suggest that it's harder to get into a pa school then med school. dude you really need to wake up and smell the coffee. the people that apply to med school are a self selective group. the applicant pool is that much stronger than the pa applicant pool. even if only 1 person in a million pa applicants gets in that still doesn't compare to a med school that takes 99 out of 100 people because med school applicants being weeded out from the day they started college and they continue to be weeded out until they take the mcat and finally even at the interview. as far as pa students being at the level of med students at similar years of training in terms of fund of knowledge, although i'm sure there are rare exceptions, i have yet to see this in my 4 years of med school. now that's not to say that med students are better than pa students at everything. In actual floor work like setting foleys, iv lines, etc there are many pa's that are excellant and may even be better than med students, but that's more because these things come with practice and anybody even a non medical person that does them enough will become good at it. The same goes for a pa with 30 years of experience in dealing with a certain type of patient (let's say sickle cell anemia), vs a internist out in the suburbs who hasn't seen this disease, i mean just because of experience the pa will know more because of his unique experience in dealing with this type of patient, however to generalize and say that the pa knows more than the internist is totally false. I mean for problems that both the internist and the pa see evenly i, the public and i bet even the pa's would much rather go to the board certified MD doctor, because we know pschologically that the person with an MD is somebody that was extremely gifted as an undergrad went through a rigourous 4 years of med school, further training in residency and thus if my care or somebody i love's care is on the line i will send him to an md doctor over a pa any day of year,(this argument is based on the presumption of course that we know nothing about the pa or md outside of the initials behind thier name, obviously if the md is a serial killer and the pa is a reincarnation of mother teresa, well you get the point). does an md know more about EVERYTHING than other healthcare workers or the general public, of course not. For example a rare disease in let's say tropical africa that no body outside of an illiterate tribe that it affects in Africa has seen. who knows more is better able to treat you when you pick up this disease initially in africa, your md in america or the african tribe that's been afflicted with the disease for thousands of years and has come up with some useful crude remidies and has a track record of dealing with or treating the disease. of course the tribesman will know more, but who has more POTENTIAL to further advance and perhaps better understand the disease due to thier superior science background and history of achieveing, obviously the MD. this is where the big differance lies in between an md and any other health care worker. certainly things you guys do more of or see more of you'll be better at, but the potential to learn more to readily pick up new things at a fast pace i would have to argue in broad terms an md is going to be able to generally be able to do better. here i mean fund of knowledge and not in terms of doing procedure oriented things which is obviously directly related to how often you do them.
 
oh another clarification, the two tests you took during your rotations are not shelf exams. Believe me had you taken a shelf exam you'd know what an exam is all about. the shelf is given to us allopathic med students, is specially ordered and the questions are geared towards residents. although i could be wrong i believe your only allowed to take these exams if your in an allopathic med school. I've posted a couple of posts here just because i've found the topic interesting. In no way and i hope i don't come across as doing so, am i trying to demean any other profession. I have the utmost respect for with nearly everybody i work with, and believe in my years of training am especially grateful to some of the ER nurses i worked with because they were so nice and taught me so much (iv draws, abgs, foleys,etc), but i think one thing and this includes everybody including me, has to realize is the limitation of their training. Just like a surgeon isn't a radiologist who isn't a peditrician, the same goes for a PA or a nurse, or pharmacist, you guys aren't one another and you guys aren't doctors. You have to be aware if for no other reason, just from a medico-legal point that no matter how much autonomy your given or how much experience you have, that the person ultimately responsible for the patient is the MD even if he is just 1 day out of training and the pa has been working a gillion years. If the doctor doesn't know something a disease a patient ,a drug it's his job to go learn about this rapidly or ask for the proper whether it's from the pa that's been doing this for the last gazillion years or the researcher from harvard who knows nothing else but the answer to that 1 question about your patient, because it's the doctor's ass if something goes wrong, not the pa not the nurse not the pharmacist.Anyways good luck to everybody in whatever your future endeavors may be and i sincerely do mean that since you guys seem so decent.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Bandit:
•
This knowledge gap you speek of may exist in some PA`s, but for the most part a new grad. PA and a new med student grad are virtually the same. There is no real difference in clinical aspects that the PA can not operate evenly in. The difference is in the residency. I personally teach med students and PA`s (as a PA) and to be honest -- most good PA`s can run circles around a first or second year resident -- period. Once they get to the third year than of course the med student will get better. There really is no questuion of that.

•••••Are you saying that I could have learned everything I needed to know from med school in two years? That the entire extra year of clinical training was useless? I find that very hard to believe.
 
•••quote:••• Believe me had you taken a shelf exam you'd know what an exam is all about. the shelf is given to us allopathic med students, is specially ordered and the questions are geared towards residents. although i could be wrong i believe your only allowed to take these exams if your in an allopathic med school. ••••Osteopathic students also take the Shelf Exams, and they are also given to Podiatric students. They are not limited to allopathic schools.
 
I really wish this topic would end, because realization of the difference between Medical and Assistant education SHOULD be apparent! There is no way that a PA is taking the EXACT same anatomy course as a medical student...our anatomy course was 2-4 days a week for 8 months! Hell, our pathology was an entire year long! No way you can learn virology, immunology, microbiology, pharmacology, histology, biochem, along with anatomy, and path in one year (add OMT for the DO students)! There would have to be substantial dilution...SUBSTANTIAL dilution! An assistant is simply not expected to know as much nor in the same detail. Expectations and responsibilities should follow this same thinking. That is why they are an assistant! Big deal, I guess I thought everyone knew that.

But anyway this should be self evident...beer should be the topic. Goose Island is a great brew in a great town, try the "Honkers Ale!"
As my Guiness shirt says "GUINESS IS GOOD FOR YOU!"
 
MrHappy is right and we all know it.....PA are not rtrained to the same degree as MD's of DO's. But we have just as important a role in theis business...so let's despence with this crap and quit trying to see who works harder in school.

Speaking as a PA any PA that thinks his course was as difficult as the MDs must've been to a different program than ANY I know...Ours is two years theirs is 4 years of school and 4 years of residency....we would have to work 24 hrs a day EVERY day to get to half of that...so let's let this bulls*t bickering stop.

Why don't we invoke the "If you can't be courteous to other forumites then get the hell off the forum" rule? We could call it "Bob's Rule", since I stake claim to it.....New Rule...How do I get to be a Senior member?????

Let's talk beer...or motorcycles... or something else
 
Mr. Bob , as much I admire your past posts, I think you are wrong here. In my program as well as many others (but sadly not all), we sat WITH the med students and took the SAME tests. Get it?? In the same classes! Right next to them! Anatonmy/biochem/patho/clinical med/phys dx/hx taking/ethics/lab med/ -- all in the very next seat. God, it does not make me a physician because I did not take the extensive verisions of histo/micro (although I too micro)/and other courses that make the MD degree a "doctor" of medical knowledge. Pa programs are not diluted. They are notoriously faster paced and even more rigerous at times. If you look at the hours instead of the years. Most MD programs are about 160 hours and most PA programs are about 125--140. You better believe it MR. longer days and no vacation. Right thru the summers. Thats what is taught in "2 years". What truly makes a physician is residency. Untill you get thru that understand you dont have the market cornered on medical knowledge. Get off your high horse and try to understand that there others that enjoy learning about medicine in order to help out. Get over the "assistant" part and grow up. (Not you Mr. Bob!!)
 
I just have a few things to say in response to what godfather was saying earlier...other than that, I agree with everyone on the basis that each career has its limitations....heck, everybody has their limitations, and I would think that godfather would realize that even though a med student gets through school,that is just an accomplishment, and they still have a long road ahead of them. I am in a unique situation. I have been dating someone for 5 years now and he is just ending his 3rd year of medical school. He has worked really hard to get there and is anticipating the match for next year and starting his residency in pediatrics. I will be starting my first year in PA school this summer. To say that med students are at the top of their class in college, that they worked hard, that they were weeded out by the mcat, etc...doesn't mean anything. I went to college, graduated with a BS in Biology with a 3.7 GPA and a minor in chemistry and education. I took the mcat...thought I wanted to go to med school. Went to Graduate school in Virginia. Took the GRE for that, did well. Aced all of my classes. Now I work in Research in Texas at a well known cancer center. It was here that I got exposed to a team concept. Nurses, doctors, techs, dieticians, informatics, statisticians, physics people, the top physicians in the country...but I also found that everybody worked together. Sure, there are doctors here that are leading phase III studies on the latest cancer treatments...but without the nurses, they wouldn't be able to keep up with all of the paperwork to analyze the data and write a publication. I just think that by saying that medical students were the mac daddy's of their respective colleges etc etc etc offends me and probably a few others out there who are or will be PAs, nurses, etc. Being a PA is a choice, I think. In a year or two, I will marry the medical student, have a family, and work doing something that I respect and love. It is all about priorities and choice. While I realize that you believe that the other healthcare members are important, I just feel that by saying taht Med students are more competitive, etc. I think that you are making a generalization that you haven't really given much thought. I could have gone to med school with my gpa, research experience, publications, mcat scores, healthcare experience, etc, but I chose to be a PA and I am proud of it, just like you are proud of what you are going to be doing in the future. Hats off to you godfather, and all of the other medical students who work their butts off trying to get through school and surviving all of the scutwork and long nights on call, but don't forget about the other people who work just as hard to fulfill their own career goals.
 
Mr. Bob, ya know I like you more and more. Beer and other things are far more interesting topics (we could talk for hours on topics like "recipes with beer etc). If you know some I would love to hear em (I made a kick @ss white chili with MGD).

Bandit, come on man, what you say makes ZERO logical sense. The amount of lab time in anatomy alone was likely more than your entire anatomy course...let alone path lab and lecture, there just isn't enough time in the day. I drank from a fire hydrant for 2 years trying to keep up, but somehow you did the same in a year? My neuroanatomy course was 3 months long AFTER gross anatomy! What do you think we fill our academic years with...basketweaving? Summer break? Dude I had four weeks off during my first year and that was it. Second year summer was a month of board review day after day after day! Dude, I couldn't imagine a faster pace, and if you can...then ther is NO way (zero, nada, nil) it could be absorbed! and USMLE step 1,2,3 board failure would be absolutely imminent!
Whatever...enough is enough. Bandit your argument is silly, but that does not mean you are not intelligent. You are a smart character, but if you don't want to be an Assistant, I guess you chose incorrectly. I am sorry. I simply think you have overstepped your boundries in this discussion. Try to make the academic argument to ANY attending physician and you will get laughed out of the building! I thought my graduate experience was grueling too...I learned the hard way that I was incorrect.

Come on guys, Guiness is Good For you, this conversation is BAD.
 
Clwn, you are right--beer isa a better topic, but I have over stepped nothing. Pal, I sat there next to them. I know!! As I said before, there are many courses that the med students take that the PA does not -- that is the diffe4rence. I drank from the very same hyrdant!!!! Lecture and lab time!! Come to think about it -- all I ever wanted was a sip but got far more than I asked. Noone is putting down med school here. Just saying that it is every bit as hard as you AND I remember it. Dude, I was there! Your argument about failing the USMLE is a valid one. THATS WHY WE ARE NOT PHYSICIANS!!!!!! Get it? Noone evr said we were. Just not poeple who "skirted" thru an "assistant" course load. I understand that you are very proud of your accomplishments --as you should be--but to be threatened and even offended by someone else who took THE SAME CLASSES but with a different degree?? Now that is not logical. Hmmm, beer huh?
 
Bandit......yeah I know..., but not for 4 years, that's all I was saying......The two that we did was as difficult, but when we were done...they kept right on going.....they are right about that.

Whew..........I really need a cold one now.....I thought you were after me with that tirade for a minute, Bandit...till I read the last bit....I was sweatin'....I am still and alway on your side and don't disagree, just pointing out my opinion... (I am laughin like hell here) Boy you were pissed, Bud.....look at your typing and spelling...one would have thought I wrote that post (LMFAO) <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

Warning......never try to stick a wedge between me and another riding bud......(LOL)
 
What has happened here? I thought this cr@p was over...but still the rantings? Bandit, even Mr.Bob, doesn't agree with you! I have somehow met the superhuman that took Anatomy, pathology, physiology, neuroanatomy, microbiology, pharmacology, biochemistry, and all the aspects of clinical medicine in a year and can remember it all! Nope, that doesn't even make sense...those are second AND first year classes! One is a pre-requisite for the other! I don't think anyone is threatened here, I just think inconsistancies have been stated. Believe me dude, I am not threatened.
The second year of academics BUILDS on the first. Obviously, you had to have some of the same building blocks for clinical medicine, no one is doubting that...but year 2 is much like the 400 level class compared to the 300 level. You didn't take the same classes...
you took SOME of the classes. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Mr. BOB stated "Speaking as a PA any PA that thinks his course was as difficult as the MDs must've been to a different program than ANY I know...Ours is two years theirs is 4 years of school and 4 years of residency....we would have to work 24 hrs a day EVERY day to get to half of that...so let's let this bulls*t bickering stop"

That quote is worth a thousand words!
 
Happy.......I love WHITE CHILI....please please send me the recipe........ &lt;[email protected]&gt;

If you like shrimp.....Boil 'em in beer instead of water.......

BTW..."Mr Happy clown Guy" implies that you are or do clowning? am I right? I was one of the clowns in the Macys parade this year (2001). I followed the Sesame Street float and was one of the Baby Clowns...what an experience. My son was one too (this was his 18th birthday year) and i figured what a great way to graduate to manhood...leave childhood as a clown and enter manhood as a clown.....He loves that sort of stuff. What a great kid.......I am gonna miss him when he goes to college this year.......
 
Hey, I have no beef with anyone here (esp Bob), ---think what you want--I SAT THERE! Wow, I cant believe this keeps goin`! While I respect Mr. Bob and his quote--his program was what -- 25years ago? NOT THAT I SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THOSE PROGRAMS but the profession has evolved a bit. Look around, there are soo many PA programs affiliated with med schools now. Guys, trust me -- they sit in the same classes and take the same tests.

Now, who said what about white chili??????? Count me in.
 
Listen, you take SOME of the same first year classes. YOU DO NOT take ALL of the same first year classes. You couldn't take ALL of the same first year classes because you had to fit in your Physician Assistant classes didn't you? (wow, PA programs are at medical centers...so are alot of other allied health programs) Your reasoning is a joke because pathology/pharm/micro/virology/ etc etc are 2nd year classes or at least FAR MORE INVOLVED in your second year! You had to have had abbreviated or diluted classes.
Go back and re-read what Godfather said, the competition is different, the grading scales are different, the pressures are different.

If you run ten miles, do you say you have run the same miles as a marathoner? Well, I guess the first 10 were the same, but you didn't run 22 miles...so you ran SOME of the miles.
While you are self-glorifying yourself, give yourself a PhD, since someone in that class probably got a PhD...or perhaps go to cooking school take the first semester and then call yourself a chef! I mean, you took the same classes right?
 
OUCH!!!!! Damn, that hurt........(LOL)

(Chuckle).....yep mine was when we walked for 5 miles in the snow in the middle of the summer to get there. None of us had shoes and our parents had no cars then. We had to WRITE all of our notes and our cadavers were actually dead civil war guys. Our beer was HOMEMADE. I had a '57 chevy and gas was $.25 a gallon and we got glasses with each fill up. Every time we went to the bank to make a deposit we got a new place setting of dishes and interest on our money was 15%. We were MEN then......we cold shaved 'cause the hot water was rationed (the war and all ya know) Our TV's were black and white and we actually WATCHED the first guy step on the moon. We REALLY saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. the most dangerous thing we got from sex was Gonorrhea and babies. Girls who got pregnant went to special places to have the babies, and the babies that came back with 'em were ususally a "relative" who the parents are helping take care of. We wore madras shirts and really tight jeans. If our hair was any longer than 3-4 inches we were "HIPPIES". We said things like "groovy" and "far out" and we LOVED Dick CLark. We watched the Monkees on TVC and thought they were "cool"

Everyone wanted to be a rock guitar star.
If we didn't study we got BEATINGS and if the high school priniple called home (shudder) your ass was grass, no questions asked. We smoked only in the boys room and prayed no one would catch us.

We "went steady" and "made out" in the back seat at the drive-in movies. Anyone who hasn't been to a drive-in movie has missed a really fun friday or saturday night. Big playground up under the screen where everyone hung out with kids playing under the light of the movie...no one yelling for you to be quiet.......

ready for me to stop?...........(LMFAO)
Thanks for the trip down memory road, Bandit.....

I have read enough of your posts to know what you mean...I am on your side, after all.....

Hey...I ran the whole Marine Corps Marathon (26.2 miles, thank you)....can I call myself "Doc" now??
 
Mr. Bob, as much as I like you...Bandit just belittled your program as well as mine.

Bandit, you need to enter medical school...PLEASE! I will write a letter of rec for you. Just tell them you have already taken the same classes and they may just give you a big hug and say "welcome aboard". Please go. Please.
 
Well....I'll just have to stomp my foot and hit him in the arm when I see him next.

I wasn't offended......this is getting fun.....I know what he meant...and I know what you meant.

In fact I know what all of you mean and how passionate all of you are about your point of view...when you finally don't give a damn about this subject it will become funny to you too......just wait and see.
 
Freedom, I already stated in earlier posts that PA`s do not take the pathology/micro/virology
/histology and others!! Some of the same -- not all. I understand that you are very busy but please read everything in order to play fair! I said it time and time again. (Dont be so sure about the pharm though.)

Self-glorifying??? Freedom please, this was a discussion to explain the similarity between the two professions -- and guess what -- they are similar BUT AGIAN (and please read all of this) NOT THE SAME PROFESSION. Hear that? It is the unwavering tenet of the PA profession that the commitment to the Physician directed team be unchanged!! I have enjoyed your input on many of these threads, but you seem pretty stuborn on the fact that others do take the same classes as you. Why is that? Also, why is it that a medical school grad. that fails his/her residency or licening exam cannot practice as a PA? Why is it that forieng MD`s cannot practice in the US as PA`s?

OK, I guess I will post some web sites so you can read it for yourself pal. Last time here -- the sky IS blue and the grass IS green. Just open your eyes. Very similar, even same classes -- noone ever said same curriculum.

<a href="http://www.aapa.org/gandp/scope-practice.html" target="_blank">www.aapa.org/gandp/scope-practice.html</a>
<a href="http://www.aapa.org/physician.html" target="_blank">www.aapa.org/physician.html</a>
<a href="http://www.aapa.org/gandp/protoc.html" target="_blank">www.aapa.org/gandp/protoc.html</a>

I will post specific school sites next time.

Now, lets grab that beer. OOh which reminds me -- I went to a Pub this week and they had no Old Peculiar -- said they all had it and loved it , but sadly none for me!

Oh hey Mr. Bob, I didnt mean anything about that 25 year deal!! I am turning 37 myself so I remember some of that ****!!

I keep on polishing the bike hoping the weather breaks. God, you know what it is like having a brand new one JUST SIT THERE! I know --you probably do!
 
Even though my PA school was at a major US medical school (UT Galveston), we had nothing similar to a medical student's education. I will admit though that we had SOME of the same classes, but overall the total hours were less EACH semester. The only class that we actually sat in and took the same exams was ICM, which was like 8 credits or some crazy SH$T. It was half a day every day for an entire Spring, and each day we had a lecturer from a different specialty. My pharm class was only one semester. My neuro was at the undergrad level and a complete joke. My A&P was stellar but still only 10 weeks total. The one thing that I can say though is that I did do all the same rotations that the 3rd year med students did, and I functioned as a fourth year. They made us function as a 4th year after the first half-year of clinicals.

The funny thing though that all you docs on this forum fail to realize is that it doesn't matter what your education is if your patients like you. I see 30-40 people a day, who only want to see ME. This is because I am very empathetic, I listen, and because I am extremely good at what I do (Family Medicine "aint" brain surgery). I realize that I did not receive a medical education, but I received the closest thing that anyone can without going to med school. And that was my original point when I stated that I think medical school will be less of a challenge because of it.

Freedom, and Clown, you might be right in saying that we haven't been there and done that, but since you haven't been here and done this, don't underestimate how similar our training is. And as I enter medical school in 4 months, I could care less what you guys think about my chances of success. I can personally guarantee though that it will be like drinking from a pressure sprayer, while yours was a fire hydrant. Though it might hurt a bit, it will sure not drown me. God forbid someone might be able to make it through without struggling as much as you guys did. Man, you all deserve a Nobel Prize for the amount polar solvent you guys drank I suppose. There is only one way to settle this argument, and it will be posted when I complete the first two year of medical school. I will be more than happy to detail what I learned these two years that somehow makes me a better clinician.

Bandit, the sad reality is that our profession will never receive the credit it deserves, and medicine as we know it is not set up to be delivered by people like us. The public does not understand our role, and hell, even I don't understand our role. I see patients everyday, and do the EXACT same thing that a family physician does everyday. So Freedom, and Clown, as we might not go through the same thing to get there, we often end up doing the EXACT same thing. I ask my supervising physician for advice no more than he asks for mine. Experience has been my residency, whether you want to believe it or not. And like it or not, the law allows me to do ALL this.

But since I will never accept in my own mind that I function as a doctor but am not one, I must move forward with my studies. And I suggest that any PA who is smart will simply suck it up and accept the same thing, and stop arguing with physicians. This will only hurt the PA profession. Part of our unique role is to be a highly paid and skilled "lump swallower". Docs often want to feel superior, so by all means let them. It makes no sense to bite off the hand that feeds you.

But Freedom, and Clown, please learn one thing. PA's are not ASSISTANTS as the title would mislead you. This is just another way by which our lobby has chosen to embarrass us by creating a subserviant name. This keeps the docs happy. An assistant is the person who rooms your patients, but is not the person who takes the history, does the exam, writes the script, and follows the patient for years (without them even seeing a doc). This might be a blow to your pride docs, but you know this is not an ASSISTANT role. And I can tell you that it is never appropriate to introduce a PA as an ASSISTANT. Like it or not, we are your colleagues and associates. The next time a PA goes in the room for you, watches you do the exam, transcribes your findings, and writes out the scripts you choose, you can them call them an ASSISTANT. If you use the word Assistant, you better be using the word PHSYICIAN in front of it.

When I am finally back in my practice, I hope to have nothing but PA's working for me. I know the value of a PA, and I know what they are worth. You will see that the smart docs have PA's, because it allows them to relax, see less patients, take less call, have more days off, and make a TON more money. I simply am not happy with MY OWN role as a PA, but I have no problem with others who want to be PA's. It is my own dissatisfaction that has led me to move on, but not any doubt that I am a damn good provider.

And Bob, I ran that marathon in 92, and it was a blast. If you saw a platoon of Marines running in formation, then you saw me!

Clown, Honker's Ale, yes that was it. The white goose on the tap!!! Guys, its been fun, but since I started this thread, it is my hope that we kill it right here. It is not productive to take this any further.
 
What is white chili? I live in Southwest Co and have had my fair share of chili (green, and red). Would love to hear some recipees.

Does anyone brew beer out there? It's not too difficult, and everyone here probably has had enough Chem and Micro to appreciate the process.

-my vote 4 best brew...no contest Pilsner Urquell.
 
Come on now, Matt....we have only 10 more posts to break 100 here...now let's give this lethargic forum (not topic, though) some life. No not yet it doesn't die....not till 100...then it's over.

White chili is made with white navy beans instead of pintos and is actually white in color. The one's I've eaten have chicken in them and are absolutely delicious.

Bandit.....I know you didn't......I sat here laughing as I read it...I could tell you were a little pissed.

Try, everyone, to imagine that this is a bar (for the bikers and PA's) or a pub (for the med students) and we're all just in here at our own tables. the bartender is the moderator here. He just hands out drinks and says nothin'. Imagine one table with 4 chairs two of which are occupied by one each ass of MrBob and Bandit who are really talkin' bikes and ridin' and the other two chairs occupied by our feet. At another table next to us is PA matt and Arraks talkin' PA stuff and we are actually taklin between tables. Outside are our bikes and their cars. We are wearin' jeans and an HD t-shirt with a vest and are road dirty. Each drinkin' a brew and laughin' at the idiocy of life.

A few table away are Freeeeeedom and MrHAppy ClownGuy with a bunch of their med student buddies talkin' about how rich they're gonna be when they get out of school, or how they plan to go to Africa and cure Aids or do their time in the military to pay their school back or how really sorry they are they chose this profession instead of law or architecture.
We all share the same room to relax but no one really get's into a fist fight....oh we argue about topics and comparisons of schools and life, but nothing serious.........

this is how this thread and all threads should be seen............We just share a room for cold drinks and conversation.

That was number 91......who's gonn be the 100th here?
 
Damn! 100? That was pretty funny Bob. Now lets start a new thread ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE! Ok, after 100.
 
What say we go over to the thread about the Brit (Coolthang) trying to get into PA school and razz him a little now that we have this one stirred up pretty good? Just kidding!!! #93
 
Ok, I can only post in the day because I don't have access at night...

Bandit, thank you for clarifying the pathology, virology, neuroanatomy, immunology, microbiology thing for me...it was my oversight that I did not read it before.
PACmatt, assistant seems like a fine name to me. I think perhaps you are looking for a Politically Correct name for your profession (ie Sanitation Engineer, Sandwhich Artist etc)...whatever. Lack of definition by CHANGING identity leads to POOR recognition. Leave the name alone.

White Chile...OK OK, the recipe is at home but had WHITE beans, chicken, beer, tomatoes, yellow peppers, yadda yadda ...very good.

More for you beer lovers TRY SAMUEL SMITH's Winter Welcome (not sam adams) or the Nut Brown Ale.
Or some Australian Stong Bow (not the cider).
 
You know, there are some schools that have already taken it upon themselves to change the name. "associate" appears on the diploma instead of assistant.

Whats in a name. I see the point of people mis reading into it -- but who cares. I say leave it alone.

Not everything that can be measured matters, and not all that matters can be measured.

#95
 
PA and Physician are two different level of educations. Some of the classes might be the same and the work might be similar but it still not the same. The only way to know the difference between the two education is to actually go thru both of them. I myself never went to a PA school so i don't know how it is. The PAs that are in my class (MS-I class) feel that med school is a lot harder than PA school. (true or not......... i don't know, just people's opinion).
Like everybody's been saying, both profession are needed and function side by side. But just because doctors and PAs do the same/similar work, doesn't mean they're the same. Just like a psychologist with a master degree might do the same/similar work as a psychologist with a Ph.D............ still not the same.
 
Although it appears that this topic has been beaten to death, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth (to help reach 100). I find many of the comments regarding PA vs. MD/DO education a little off the mark. For the record, I am a fourth year DO student and my fiancee is a PA. In comparing my education to hers, I can say that I did take classes that she did not. Of those classes we took in common, mine often went into more depth. That being said, I feel that our "practical" knowledge is the same. Does the additional time in virology really help me that much on rotations? No. And how many times in these "in-depth" classes I took did I hear the lecturer say "now, you'll never see this out in the real world"? Far too often. At least at my school, we often got so bogged down in the "depth and detail" that it blurred the important points - the stuff you had to know. From a practitioner standpoint, how important is it to know that S. aureus has hyaluronidase and hemolysins as long as you can diagnose and treat a S. aureus infection? I guess my point is that I don't feel that the additional course work necessarily equates into being a better provider of healthcare.
And as far as the competitiveness of PA vs. MD programs, I believe that the acceptance rate for MD/DO programs is better than it is for PA programs and has been for a while. Now I realize that this is somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison, but I really don't think there is huge difference in the caliber of applicants to either program. The PA's that I know and have worked with all have B.S. degrees from good universities, have great GPA's and have previous medical experience. And if they took the MCAT instead of the GRE, I don't think you'd see a huge difference when compared to the average med school applicant. If you think about it...less student loans, shorter education, good job opportunity, good money, and the ability to practice medicine...maybe the PA's are smarter overall...
 
How about an apple or an orange???? I hear they are both pretty good.
 
I wonder who the poor sap is who will think it important enough to post number 100 on this tiring subject. Let's see who can claim the idiot award for achieving 100 responces to the subjec that has created the most comtraversy on this forum since I have been a member....When do I get to be a SENIOR MEMBER? I wonder...you reckon my lack of education keeps me here a regular status?

Can you guys feel me trolling here....wonder who will take the bait and get pulled into the boat?

You have achieved FAME, PACMATT, by creating such a contraversial subject. Know what's sad about the demise of the topic? The saddness is in the fact that many of us will no longer find a reason to commonly speak about a subject with as much passion as we have on this one.

Know what else is sad? It took this subject to make some of us understand that each of us were actually humans on these computers and laugh at each others follies over such a rediculous argument. Imagine...one day one of you will go the a conference and never know whether the PA or MD or student next to you is really MrBob, or Bandit, or Freeedom....we will be forever in anonymity..........

someone send the Chili recipe.....
 
100!! I did it -- I am the idiot! Now Let it end.
 
Diagnosis: Massive Supra-Scapular Notch (aka huge chip on your shoulder)
 
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