Pacific University School of Pharmacy - Honest Review - AMA

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It's laughable that PacU SOP's response is only defending its current state and not taking into considerations the issues students are talking about on this forum. Really shows you what the school values and makes it seem like there is a lot of "yes" people working for the school.

What happened to that school for it's reputation to decline so dramatically? What changes were made that is causing these problems for students in this program? This school might benefit from asking students or having faculty making a problem list and writing out possible solutions.

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It's laughable that PacU SOP's response is only defending its current state and not taking into considerations the issues students are talking about on this forum. Really shows you what the school values and makes it seem like there is a lot of "yes" people working for the school.

What happened to that school for it's reputation to decline so dramatically? What changes were made that is causing these problems for students in this program? This school might benefit from asking students or having faculty making a problem list and writing out possible solutions.
Problem list
1. $200k+ tuition for a $70k or less job is ripping off students.

Solution: cap tuition at $10-12k/year. Students should graduate with a max of $50k in debt since salaries don't justify the cost.

2. There are no jobs in the job market. You are training pharmacists for jobs that don't exist.

Solution: Immediately cut class sizes by 80% and promise not to expand the class size unless your graduates have a 100% employment rate (measured 2 years after graduation).

3. You are training subpar pharmacists.

Solution: Immediately raise admission standards to not consider anyone with under a 3.5 GPA (barring extenuating circumstances) and who scores lower than a 90th percentile on the PCAT. Also eliminate any "fast track" programs that take students directly out of high school.



Like faculty is going to listen to any of this...
 
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It's laughable that PacU SOP's response is only defending its current state and not taking into considerations the issues students are talking about on this forum. Really shows you what the school values and makes it seem like there is a lot of "yes" people working for the school.

Again, the schools have lowered their standards..a LOT. Many current students lack basic critical thinking skills and lack the ability to even use Google to learn about the current job market. I'll repeat what I have heard with my own ears...the current professors talk a LOT of smack about the current classes at PSOP. The professors are literally telling students the answers to questions that they wil be asking on the exams to keep the passing rate high. Only the bottom of the barrel students are still applying to pharmacy as a career at this point (with the very rare exception).
 
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I cannot speak for the class ahead of me in terms of what is being discussed on an exam by way of a quiz or simply "telling" the student body, but on our last exam this past Friday for the P1 class (Immunology/Oncology block) I can state that out of the 82 questions, 2-3 of them were indeed from a past quiz and were worth 1 point each. What was also a first for me over the past two semesters is that they are now putting in at least 1 NAPLEX question referencing the specific topic we had for that block. Again though, this is just now starting to make an appearance on my exams this late in the second semester.

I don't remember how many we started with (103 or so), but this semester we are down to about 94 students which of course includes those taking a LOA for the time being. I have spoken to a few students with the majority wanting to practice in the Northwest region but the nontraditional students have discussed and realized this region is not a place to try and start a career with. Many of us have plans to apply nation wide with of course vets trying to go back and work at the VA wherever possible.
 
Many of us have plans to apply nation wide with of course vets trying to go back and work at the VA wherever possible.

Does the school still coach and selectively hand pick student ambassadors who are willing to lying to future potential to secure a source of federal loans as revenue for the program?

I wonder how many uninformed future pharmacy students are still applying at this point with all the easily accessible information that is out on the internet now. This thread has generated over +6,000 views, yet very few replies. I guess all the smart students who know how to research are seeing this thread and not applying to Pacific.

The other students likely don't know how to use the internet and will be attending Pacific.
 
As for the student ambassador officers: The students themselves set up a small interview day and hand-pick themselves the people who will be taking their place. As for the others volunteering and joining, they're just reminded to not discuss specific questions that may come up during the interview time slot for each individual. An excel sheet is sent out for people to sign up for a slot on interview days (ie pictures, trying on white coats, giving the lab tour, making small talk with those waiting for an interview, be in charge of a group activity, etc) in exchange of getting food and hours counted toward the ambassador organization (so you can graduate and say you are an ambassador alumni-4-life).

As for me and answering questions, I only state what I know in regards to job availability vs debt. Truth is at this point, most folks have their minds made up when they get to the interview stage as far as pharmacy goes.
 
they're just reminded to not discuss specific questions...

As for me and answering questions, I only state what I know in regards to job availability vs debt.

Glad you are honest, the rare exception.

Too bad the school still isn't and is still resorting to handpicking those select few who are willing to turn a blind eye and deceive future students. These are the type of students who are only out for themselves and have no moral values. Anyone that says they are an "ambassador alumni-4-life" is the type of person who will stab you right in the back and sleep completely fine at night. These "ambassador alumni-4-life" would've done great in German in 1940.

When I interviewed, I asked so many questions about the student drop out rate, the employment opportunities, the over-saturation problem, the exam passing/failure rate, our school compared to other schools (WSU, OSU) and every questions I asked was met with:

"Oh don't worry about it, everyone passes..."
"Jobs are plentiful, there is no over-saturation"
"Pacific is better than OSU and WSU" (even though our pass rate on the NAPLEX is worse and Kaiser won't even accept our students for rotations)

Everyone was brief and vague when answering my questions. As I continued to ask more in-depth questions, the student ambassadors started to avoid talking to me and tried to walk away instead of answering my questions. I knew something was fishy, but at the time I didn't realize they were the school's trained foot soldiers.
 
I remember when you were first considering pharmacy last year on this site. If my memory serves me correctly, you were contemplating pharmacy in order to be competitive for the MD route but also looking at Optometry and Veterinary school yes?

When you say train "interns" I think you mean training them on the computer programs at your retail site as a "technician." The state of Oregon does not allow P1 students (myself included) to work with Intern privileges until the completion of year 1 (yet I could counsel OTCs for the department of defense as a military tech). Didn't you mention you actually did not want to go to Pacific University due to the block program?

Looking also at your stats, your overall GPA is below a 3.0 with no indication that you took the PCAT. I cannot speak for PSOP (though I believe he/she would agree and would know seeing that they graduated from the program), but the majority of students who have failed, quite, or just got by last semester were the ones that correlated with a low GPA going into the program (assuming what they have divulged to be true). Despite the state of pharmacy (which is very limited if you decide to stay in the northwest which I do not recommend), this program is rigorous and fast pace. After your Biochemistry block which is 4 weeks, expect every block exam to take place every other Friday for the remainder of your stay ( also every other Monday if you don't pass with a 90 on your Friday exams). It can be overwhelming but doable. Just keep that in mind when considering a 3 year program.

However, if you are still contemplating pharmacy simply because you are not qualified to apply to other healthcare programs, I strongly recommend that you consider other options and build your academic stats. If your still shadowing physicians, keep doing it. If your curious about veterinary school, shadow a vet and see what qualifications you need. However if you have changed your mind about pacific university then go in with the mindset that stress will be apart of your life and that you will need to network and prepare for opportunities outside of this region.
That is currently different for this year at our chain. We're actually accepting P1 interns at our chain starting this year with one student already interning since February. Otherwise, somebody would've spoke up during the interview I had with a P3 student and faculty member about it! And I think you got me mixed up with someone else as I never had an interest in veterinary school?? As for this year, I retook a few classes and did better in them - did way better in accelerated classes. I don't know what it is, but I prefer accelerated classes rather than drawing them out into 11 long weeks; hence, I like the block style. I also don't plan to reserve myself to the northwest and am willing to relocate anywhere in the US too. I mean, I already applied to over 5 programs with two being ranked top 10 by US Ranking, and have received interviews from every single one and these schools are scattered all over the place.

It is unfortunate Pacific was the first to get back to me out of all my programs who are determining decisions in late March or early April. At the moment I am accepted into Pacific, but have not fully committed to the offer. I understand that the curriculum is rigorous as we went over this during the day of the interview - especially with the student panel and tour. I had the honor of meeting with many staff members such has Nicola Carter because I also find parasitology fascinating - not exactly the niche I want to get into but interesting nonetheless as I've never really gotten into any research.

Working with over 20+ pharmacists I've talked with many of them about their views and approaches in applying to different ranked schools. Two of them were actually accepted into UCSF, but none of them followed through and went to a lesser known school. It wasn't because they didn't have the financial means to do so. However, they mention, and I quote from one of them "It doesn't really matter what pharmacy school you go to if you're an exemplary student. I would rather hire an exemplary student from the worst pharmacy school than a mediocre or lower tier student at a top 5 school." The other pharmacist said something similar, that it is much more impressive to be an excellent student or such to the top 10% of your class than it is to get into a highly ranked school. One owns his own business (the quote) and the other worked in pharmacy for 8 years. As for the other pharmacists...they didn't really have an opinion and just went along the lines of "try your best".

My overall GPA is actually above 3.0, but my cumulative science GPA was below 2.8. I got an F and a D in the sciences during my first year of college, but have shown an upward trend since. There have been times I've been left to my devices as the only person in the pharmacy as the pharmacist goes out on lunch. And this was in retail! Yes, it's stressful, but not all that bad when you get good at it even when you're by yourself. Be kind to your team members, compliment each other, build a positive work ethic, work towards team goals, and treat everyone with respect from your supervisor down to the entry-level tech. Thankfully, I haven't had anyone shout at me yet, only one person telling me I wasted her time because I required her to sign something before she could pick up her meds (that was the only negative customer experience I ever got in a pharmacy). I think I also have a lot patience and appreciation with a lot of stuff in the pharmacy that people don't want to do, walk away from, or even call in sick for is because I've worked 8 years of my life for my family restaurant and never got a cent for it. So to me even vacuuming the pharmacy floor is no problem to me and I gladly would volunteer to do it despite the staff I've worked with complain over it! (Seriously, I never seen so many sick calls or call-ins in my entire life till I stepped into a community pharmacy!)

However, I do not think I could qualify to be a physician. That is on a whole other level. Nurse practitioner or PA? Possibly. I can't say I don't enjoy what they do because I have worked with them and it seems like fun! Perhaps if pharmacy doesn't work out, I could always go that route.

I will say this, I don't have any illusions about the job market currently. Again, this is why I am willing to relocate anywhere in the US - even to Alaska or Hawaii if I have to. Otherwise, I would suggest all who enter this field to think it over unless you're top tier stuff. If the student wants to get into the field for the "high" salary and live in a city of luxury - that time is gone. Opportunities in these cities are reserved for the top of the class, and almost all of them will require a residency or specialization in some kind of niche.
 
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Glad you are honest, the rare exception.

Too bad the school still isn't and is still resorting to handpicking those select few who are willing to turn a blind eye and deceive future students. These are the type of students who are only out for themselves and have no moral values. Anyone that says they are an "ambassador alumni-4-life" is the type of person who will stab you right in the back and sleep completely fine at night. These "ambassador alumni-4-life" would've done great in German in 1940.

When I interviewed, I asked so many questions about the student drop out rate, the employment opportunities, the over-saturation problem, the exam passing/failure rate, our school compared to other schools (WSU, OSU) and every questions I asked was met with:

"Oh don't worry about it, everyone passes..."
"Jobs are plentiful, there is no over-saturation"
"Pacific is better than OSU and WSU" (even though our pass rate on the NAPLEX is worse and Kaiser won't even accept our students for rotations)

Everyone was brief and vague when answering my questions. As I continued to ask more in-depth questions, the student ambassadors started to avoid talking to me and tried to walk away instead of answering my questions. I knew something was fishy, but at the time I didn't realize they were the school's trained foot soldiers.
I wouldn't suggest working for Kaiser anyway. Of the pharmacists and techs I've worked with, once you're in Kaiser it is hard to get out. I was told they run their "own way of things" in there - very different from how all other pharmacies perform. A lot of techs and pharmacists that I've worked with that previously came from other chains, such as RiteAid, Walgreens, Fred-Meyers, or Wal-Mart, that I've talked to prefer not to hire Kaiser pharmacists for this reason. So if you do work for Kaiser...be cautious of what you are getting into.
 
I don't know what it is, but I prefer accelerated classes rather than drawing them out into 11 long weeks; hence, I like the block style. I also don't plan to reserve myself to the northwest and am willing to relocate anywhere in the US too. I mean, I already applied to over 5 programs with two being ranked top 10 by US Ranking, and have received interviews from every single one and these schools are scattered all over the place.

It is unfortunate Pacific was the first to get back to me out of all my programs who are determining decisions in late March or early April. At the moment I am accepted into Pacific, but have not fully committed to the offer. I understand that the curriculum is rigorous as we went over this during the day of the interview - especially with the student panel and tour.

Opportunities in these cities are reserved for the top of the class, and almost all of them will require a residency or specialization in some kind of niche.

So you are fine with the very very very high likely hood of not having a job (not even a part-time job) after graduating and owing a $300,000 loan that you will some how have to pay back with interest? That doesn't make any logical sense at all. It doesn't make any sense.

You should talk to a financial loan officer. I highly highly highly recommend you call a professional student loan organization and ask for their expert opinion. Studentloanplanner (dot) com and many others are already telling student NOT to do pharmacy because of the job market and return on investment. Yet these pharmacy students continue to think the rules don't apply to them.

Additionally, I suggest you talk to recent graduates and also talk with your retail pharmacy team on the cuts to pharmacy hours. It is pretty clear that someone here is lying. It is hard to believe that you are talking to pharmacists who are informed on the current job market and are still recommending you to go into pharmacy. They either don't want to be honest with you or think you are incapable of hearing the truth. Everything you are saying is the complete opposite of what many pharmacists are currently saying that I hear on the daily basis.

There are so many graduates out there right now who are willing to relocate to pay off their loans too. It amazes me every time new applicant thinks they hold the golden ticket (breaking news: the other thousand new applicants that didn't get accepted to medical school thinks the same too). These rural areas are also saturated and retail sites are only hiring floaters with no health insurance. Rural small hospitals are not able to afford hiring new pharmacists. Many are hiring internally and residency looks down on Pacific's pass/fail, so good luck with that.

How do you pay off your loans working part-time with no health benefits?

Anyways, good luck. Pacific should be the last on your list of schools, it should be at the very bottom (look at the NAPLEX pass rate). Here is a secret, currently even top schools are finding it hard to get enough quality applicants as the smart students have already left this pharmacy bandwagon. The top schools are trying to weed through the left over students to see which students can make it through their programs. Any student that can secure a federal loan is above the benchmark as these schools need your loans to make a profit and then send you out to unemployment.

RiteAid, Walgreens, Fred-Meyers, or Wal-Mart, that I've talked to prefer not to hire Kaiser pharmacists for this reason

Thanks for the info, but I can't tell if you are a PSOP school employee trolling to make pacific look acceptable or student trying to justify attending pacific.

The fact that Kaiser has their own protocol has little to do with the fact that they don't take PSOP students because of their lack of knowledge and the fact that Kaiser feels our students are the bottom of the barrel. Kaiser is hard to get into, they only take the top students and they pay well. PSOP students don't make the cut, that is what matters. Again, thanks for the info, but Kaiser won't/doesn't want to accept our low-quality students for IPPE or APPE.

Anyways, I am not sure if you heard about the outlook of these pharmacy companies you just listed. They aren't doing too well financially. I suggest you look up their forecasted futures. In 3 years, they will likely be paying pharmacists less than $30/hour for part-time with no health insurance. Imagine paying off a $300,000 loan on $30/hour.

If after all this info you still decide on Pacific, I imagine you will fit in perfectly.
 
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That is currently different for this year at our chain. We're actually accepting P1 interns at our chain starting this year with one student already interning since February. Otherwise, somebody would've spoke up during the interview I had with a P3 student and faculty member about it!

I think you're misunderstanding the differences with being an intern and having "intern privileges".

1) Yes, you can work as an Intern during your P1 year in the state of Oregon. Having both a WA and OR license is mandated before you even start school

2) No, you cannot perform Intern "duties" until after your P1 year in the state of Oregon unlike many other states of which the privilege is in the title of the license ( ie give immunizations, counselling, taking new prescriptions over the phone, etc). Doing so will get your licensed revoked and a possible ban of your preceptors ability to ever be a preceptor in the future.
 
So you are fine with the very very very high likely hood of not having a job (not even a part-time job) after graduating and owing a $300,000 loan that you will some how have to pay back with interest? That doesn't make any logical sense at all. It doesn't make any sense.

You should talk to a financial loan officer. I highly highly highly recommend you call a professional student loan organization and ask for their expert opinion. Studentloanplanner (dot) com and many others are already telling student NOT to do pharmacy because of the job market and return on investment. Yet these pharmacy students continue to think the rules don't apply to them.

Additionally, I suggest you talk to recent graduates and also talk with your retail pharmacy team on the cuts to pharmacy hours. It is pretty clear that someone here is lying. It is hard to believe that you are talking to pharmacists who are informed on the current job market and are still recommending you to go into pharmacy. They either don't want to be honest with you or think you are incapable of hearing the truth. Everything you are saying is the complete opposite of what many pharmacists are currently saying that I hear on the daily basis.

There are so many graduates out there right now who are willing to relocate to pay off their loans too. It amazes me every time new applicant thinks they hold the golden ticket (breaking news: the other thousand new applicants that didn't get accepted to medical school thinks the same too). These rural areas are also saturated and retail sites are only hiring floaters with no health insurance. Rural small hospitals are not able to afford hiring new pharmacists. Many are hiring internally and residency looks down on Pacific's pass/fail, so good luck with that.

How do you pay off your loans working part-time with no health benefits?

Anyways, good luck. Pacific should be the last on your list of schools, it should be at the very bottom (look at the NAPLEX pass rate). Here is a secret, currently even top schools are finding it hard to get enough quality applicants as the smart students have already left this pharmacy bandwagon. The top schools are trying to weed through the left over students to see which students can make it through their programs. Any student that can secure a federal loan is above the benchmark as these schools need your loans to make a profit and then send you out to unemployment.



Thanks for the info, but I can't tell if you are a PSOP school employee trolling to make pacific look acceptable or student trying to justify attending pacific.

The fact that Kaiser has their own protocol has little to do with the fact that they don't take PSOP students because of their lack of knowledge and the fact that Kaiser feels our students are the bottom of the barrel. Kaiser is hard to get into, they only take the top students and they pay well. PSOP students don't make the cut, that is what matters. Again, thanks for the info, but Kaiser won't/doesn't want to accept our low-quality students for IPPE or APPE.

Anyways, I am not sure if you heard about the outlook of these pharmacy companies you just listed. They aren't doing too well financially. I suggest you look up their forecasted futures. In 3 years, they will likely be paying pharmacists less than $30/hour for part-time with no health insurance. Imagine paying off a $300,000 loan on $30/hour.

If after all this info you still decide on Pacific, I imagine you will fit in perfectly.
I know Kaiser pays well, but what I hear from other techs is that they play by their own "rules". Meaning that whatever they are doing in Kaiser is not generally accepted in other pharmacies. That is why I heard these techs and pharmacists who come out of Kaiser complain about being hired at other pharmacies. It's not about the competence, but more along the lines of corruption. They tell me it's a lot easier to be hired when they took Kaiser off their resumes.

Yeah, I can't prove that I'm a PSOP. In reality we actually had one graduate from Pacific interning at our pharmacy, while didn't pass his NAPLEX or MPJE twice and we had to lay him off. So I know it's not all roses and rainbows. Though he was in the middle of a foreclosure on his home and never worked in a pharmacy until he came into pharmacy school.

And Pacific mentioned it was around $140,000 for all three school years. I have no idea where $300,000 come from. Let me get my flyer...it says $49,667 tuition and fees, $15,500 rent, utilities, and food, $6257 books, equipment, and required laptop purchase ($2000), $1546 transportation, and $4039 miscellaneous. This is an annual estimated budget. So multiply that by 3 years.

Actually, both the pharmacists that I mentioned also are well aware of the saturation issues. In fact, a lot of them are like that. Basically, "if you can show me your some tough stuff out there, then you will find a job". But I also told them about relocating anywhere in the US. They didn't even hesitate to say "oh, in that case you'll get a job somewhere. It's not anything glorious, but you'll find one". There's already no health insurance for my pharmacists whom I work with in retail. I already accepted that reality. To me, it's not that bad. I don't know if you read my background, but you have to do some pretty depraved **** to see make me see this as a false sense of security. Dude, I worked in a restaurant for no pay for 8 years so my family could survive since they can't afford to hire help. Making $40/hour with no health insurance sounds freaking fantastic. $30 though...well, it depends where you go into. I won't be surprised if that's where retail is heading. I will say it beats competing with 9.75 million students in China during the gaokao just to have the CHANCE to GO TO COLLEGE. I'm pretty sure if you were in my country, you, I and almost everybody on this board would not even be able to put a pinky into the medical field much less smell the paper of an exam in that sector. I will take my chances in the US with pharmacy and also accept the risk of its consequences.
 
But I also told them about relocating anywhere in the US. They didn't even hesitate to say "oh, in that case you'll get a job somewhere. It's not anything glorious, but you'll find one".
Might have to allow yourself to be unemployed for some time though while you try to pass other state MPJEs and get licensed which can take months and costs several hundreds of dollars. In the past employers will hire you on condition that you get licensed in their state within a certain amount of time, but this is no longer the case because why risk hiring an unlicensed pharmacists when you have hundreds of other applicants who are licensed?

Dude, I worked in a restaurant for no pay for 8 years so my family could survive since they can't afford to hire help. Making $40/hour with no health insurance sounds freaking fantastic. $30 though...well, it depends where you go into. I won't be surprised if that's where retail is heading. I will say it beats competing with 9.75 million students in China during the gaokao just to have the CHANCE to GO TO COLLEGE. I'm pretty sure if you were in my country, you, I and almost everybody on this board would not even be able to put a pinky into the medical field much less smell the paper of an exam in that sector. I will take my chances in the US with pharmacy and also accept the risk of its consequences.
Why compare pharmacist to restaurant jobs or Chinese education? Makes no sense. You should compare PharmD to other doctorate professions in the US: MD/DO, dental, optometry, etc. Heck even compare it to lesser degrees like PA, NP, nursing, etc. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a healthcare profession worse off than pharmacy right now. I mean sure we can all compare ourselves to starving kids in Africa, make ourselves feel good and call it a day... But if you're choosing a career at least try to compare apples with apples
 
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Actually, both the pharmacists that I mentioned also are well aware of the saturation issues. In fact, a lot of them are like that. Basically, "if you can show me your some tough stuff out there, then you will find a job". But I also told them about relocating anywhere in the US. They didn't even hesitate to say "oh, in that case you'll get a job somewhere. It's not anything glorious, but you'll find one". There's already no health insurance for my pharmacists whom I work with in retail. I already accepted that reality. To me, it's not that bad. I don't know if you read my background, but you have to do some pretty depraved **** to see make me see this as a false sense of security. Dude, I worked in a restaurant for no pay for 8 years so my family could survive since they can't afford to hire help. Making $40/hour with no health insurance sounds freaking fantastic. $30 though...well, it depends where you go into. I won't be surprised if that's where retail is heading. I will say it beats competing with 9.75 million students in China during the gaokao just to have the CHANCE to GO TO COLLEGE. I'm pretty sure if you were in my country, you, I and almost everybody on this board would not even be able to put a pinky into the medical field much less smell the paper of an exam in that sector. I will take my chances in the US with pharmacy and also accept the risk of its consequences.

You could earn well over $30-40/hour easily in the trades, computer programming, finance, accounting, etc. and that is without having to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years of your life in school only to have to move hundreds or thousands of miles away from family and friends to the middle of nowhere just to have a job.

I'm pretty sure that there are hundreds of millions across the world who would kill to have the opportunity to work as a cashier at McDonald's or Walmart in North America for life. We're comparing apples to oranges here.

Just because pharmacy sounds far better than what you went through previously doesn't mean that it's a good choice.

Just because a scam sounds far better than what you went through previously doesn't mean that it's a good choice.

In the end, you're still very likely to be out $200k+ with very limited job prospects.
 
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And Pacific mentioned it was around $140,000 for all three school years. I have no idea where $300,000 come from. Let me get my flyer...it says $49,667 tuition and fees, $15,500 rent, utilities, and food, $6257 books, equipment, and required laptop purchase ($2000), $1546 transportation, and $4039 miscellaneous. This is an annual estimated budget. So multiply that by 3 years.

Feel free to calculate it. I'll let you know what you are not adding in. Also, google the average loan and interest on that pharmacy loan.

You could earn well over $30-40/hour easily in the trades, computer programming, finance, accounting, etc. and that is without having to take out $200k+ in loans

In the end, you're still very likely to be out $200k+ with very limited job prospects.

It is amazing how this simple concept is complete missed by these new applicants.

I think you're misunderstanding the differences with being an intern and having "intern" privileges.

1) Yes, you can work as an Intern during your P1 year in the state of Oregon.

2) No, you cannot perform Intern "duties" until after your P1 year in the state of Oregon.

:thumbup:

Why compare pharmacist to restaurant jobs or Chinese education? I think you'd be hard pressed to find a healthcare profession worse off than pharmacy right now. I mean sure we can all compare ourselves to starving kids in Africa, make ourselves feel good and call it a day... But if you're choosing a career at least try to compare apples with apples

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

These new applicants are in such a hurry to pat themselves on their backs, they don't even understand that pharmacy schools are dying to find federal student loans to survive at this point. They don't even understand that getting into pharmacy school is as easy as applying.
 
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I will say this, I don't have any illusions about the job market currently. Again, this is why I am willing to relocate anywhere in the US - even to Alaska or Hawaii if I have to. Otherwise, I would suggest all who enter this field to think it over unless you're top tier stuff. If the student wants to get into the field for the "high" salary and live in a city of luxury - that time is gone. Opportunities in these cities are reserved for the top of the class, and almost all of them will require a residency or specialization in some kind of niche.

I can't wait till you attend Pacific.

I am hearing that it is a complete poopshow right now. Future PUSOP preceptors get ready, from what I am hearing, these are going to be the poorest performing classes. It is all down hill from here.

Every single proctor/resident/preceptor has a rubric to go off with and they are extremely fair.

You should inform us all of what is going on at PUSOP.
 
Well to all those guys out there that were wishing the worst for me, I rejected Pacific. Happy?

Got accepted into a top ten pharmacy school instead, so I'll be going there. Got a job offer from a friendly manager I've worked with over the last year for when I'm out of school. I haven't even started school yet...but she insists. Might give it to you guys instead and aim higher from here on out, but it's a nice safety net. I wish everyone else luck at Pacific and hope for the best for whoever takes my seat.
 
Well to all those guys out there that were wishing the worst for me, I rejected Pacific. Happy?

I don't think you completely understand us. To us, we don't care what school you go to. It doesn't matter to us. We are just trying to help you understand that pharmacy is a dead end. ANY student applying to pharmacy school at this point will be accepted. Only the bottom of the barrel students are still applying to pharmacy school. Any smart student already knows pharmacy has no jobs left. All of these students still applying to pharmacy have a HIGH chance of getting into any school they want to. There are so many open seats right now and schools need dumb students with loans to go to their programs because they need the tuition money.

Pacific is accepting ANY student that qualifies for a federal student loan. They are having a hard time tricking students into committing to their program as of right now. Pacific is handing out early acceptance agreements to try and fill all 100+ seats. Getting into a pharmacy program is so easy, it is nothing to celebrate.

What part of this do you still not understand? Have you not been reading the news at all?

Even during this pandemic, pharmacists are still being treated like dirt. If you don't go to work in retail today, they will find a new graduate to replace you. Hospitals are cutting pharmacy hours during this pandemic to save money, no one needs pharmacists right now. All the medical professions are in demand, but NOT pharmacists.

I don't understand how you are not able to comprehend this simple concept. How can you ever be a medical professional if you can't even grasp this simple explanation? Is this really that difficult of a concept to understand?

Good luck regardless.
 
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I don't think you completely understand us. To us, we don't care what school you go to. It doesn't matter to us. We are just trying to help you understand that pharmacy is a dead end. ANY student applying to pharmacy school at this point will be accepted. Only the bottom of the barrel students are still applying to pharmacy school. Any smart student already knows pharmacy has no jobs left. All of these students still applying to pharmacy have a HIGH chance of getting into any school they want to. There are so many open seats right now and schools need dumb students with loans to go to their programs because they need the tuition money.

Pacific is accepting ANY student that qualifies for a federal student loan. They are having a hard time tricking students into committing to their program as of right now. Pacific is handing out early acceptance agreements to try and fill all 100+ seats. Getting into a pharmacy program is so easy, it is nothing to celebrate.

What part of this do you still not understand? Have you not been reading the news at all?

Even during this pandemic, pharmacists are still being treated like dirt. If you don't go to work in retail today, they will find a new graduate to replace you. Hospitals are cutting pharmacy hours during this pandemic to save money, no one needs pharmacists right now. All the medical professions are in demand, but NOT pharmacists.

I don't understand how you are not able to comprehend this simple concept. How can you ever be a medical professional if you can't even grasp this simple explanation? Is this really that difficult of a concept to understand?

Good luck regardless.
I can't tell if you're just a troll or have some second agenda. First of all, I'm not paying for the school in loans. Secondly, I already said I got a position lined up after school. You are literally nitpicking specific sentences of what I'm posting without reading the rest of what I wrote such as having a position lined up afterwards. Regarding the news, pharmacies are expected to stay open during the pandemic while thousands of other types of businesses are closing and people are going unemployed. I have NEVER had anyone in a RETAIL PHARMACY treat me like dirt except for one customer telling me I wasted her time because she didn't want to sign some forms and was in a hurry to her child's birthday. This includes STAFF AND PATIENTS. As for outpatient and compounding, nobody treated me like dirt.

As a healthcare worker, you should be expected to be on the frontlines in this battle against COVID-19. Don't really plan to aim for hospital pharmacy though, so can't say much about that. Though one of my coworkers tell me there is endless work to be done in hospital pharmacies given the pandemic. And besides, I'm not limiting my work only to the US. Unless you're telling me the whole world doesn't need pharmacists, and at this point you just sound angry and bitter. Your status is a pharmacy student, if you're so against the field then why go into it yourself? If you don't like how pharmacists are treated like 'dirt' in this profession, then perhaps work on an MD or DO instead?
 
Secondly, I already said I got a position lined up after school.
Where do you work that you are so confident about that position still being there and staying there after you graduate? Did you sign a contract? I've known people who have worked for a company as a tech and intern for years but got no offers upon graduation. I also know someone who was promised and got a position with his company only to be laid off recently as part of Walmart's recent large wave of layoffs. I myself have worked under several district managers in my short career so I've seen that promises made will not always be kept if your manager keeps changing every couple years.

It doesn't really matter what pharmacy school you go to if you're an exemplary student. I would rather hire an exemplary student from the worst pharmacy school than a mediocre or lower tier student at a top 5 school."
This may have been true a few years ago when pharmacists were still in demand, but from the statistics I've seen recently, I believe this is no longer the case. There are some schools nowadays who have nearly 40% unemployment rate for their new grads while there are others who still boast <10% employment rate. Furthermore there are many schools who have abysmal residency placement rate (like in the 20-30%) while the national average is 66%. This leads me to believe that it really does matter which school you go to now, otherwise why such a large gap between different schools in those metrics?
 
I can't tell if you're just a troll or have some second agenda. First of all, I'm not paying for the school in loans. Secondly, I already said I got a position lined up after school.

Good luck on your journey, we may not see eye to eye, but I wish you the best.

A word to the wise, get that job offer and pay wtritten on a hard paper contract and signed. I've met so many students who said this same exact thing only to find the stores closed now. Imagine that.
 
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Where do you work that you are so confident about that position still being there and staying there after you graduate? Did you sign a contract?

I think these current applicants are so ill-informed with the current job market that they think a slight mention of, "I can help you get a job after you are done" by their current pharmacists equates to an actual job proposal. I know a student who used to boast about already having a “job lined up” upon graduating. The student was a tech at Rite-Aid prior to pharmacy school. The student is frantically trying to get into a residency now because the pharmacist from that Rite-Aid was laid off and moved.

I don’t know what it is that causes this delusion. Do students really think that the pharmacy job market is that stable or do they have zero knowledge of how volatile the job market currently is, especially in pharmacy? I would think that medical students would at the very least have the mental capacity to use Google and do a little research. I mean isn’t that what guidance counselors at schools are for? There are even loan officers out there to help with unbiased opinions.

I often joke that students who are still applying to pharmacy school are at the very bottom of the barrel from the other medical students, but I often say this in jest. However, I often wonder to myself, are the current pharmacy applicants really this, for lack of a better word, dumb?
 
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A word to the wise, get that job offer and pay wtritten on a hard paper contract and signed. I've met so many students who said this same exact thing only to find the stores closed now. Imagine that.

Exactly this.

4 years ago many people would have laughed at you if you had said that Walmart will lay off 40% of their senior phamacy staff, that Shopko will shut down, etc.

Truth is that the writing has been on the wall since 2010. Job growth was already slowing and there were new pharmacy schools popping up all over. There is no way that there would be enough jobs for these graduates who now owe $200k+ in student loans.
 
I think these current applicants are so ill-informed with the current job market that they think a slight mention of, "I can help you get a job after you are done" by their current pharmacists equates to an actual job proposal. I know a student who used to boast about already having a “job lined up” upon graduating. The student was a tech at Rite-Aid prior to pharmacy school. The student is frantically trying to get into a residency now because the pharmacist from that Rite-Aid was laid off and moved.

I don’t know what it is that causes this delusion. Do students really think that the pharmacy job market is that stable or do they have zero knowledge of how volatile the job market currently is, especially in pharmacy? I would think that medical students would at the very least have the mental capacity to use Google and do a little research. I mean isn’t that what guidance counselors at schools are for? There are even loan officers out there to help with unbiased opinions.

I often joke that students who are still applying to pharmacy school are at the very bottom of the barrel from the other medical students, but I often say this in jest. However, I often wonder to myself, are the current pharmacy applicants really this, for lack of a better word, dumb?
 
I often joke that students who are still applying to pharmacy school are at the very bottom of the barrel from the other medical students, but I often say this in jest. However, I often wonder to myself, are the current pharmacy applicants really this, for lack of a better word, dumb?
Well you gotta stop joking about it because it's true, so when you joke about it you lose credibility to pre-pharms.
 

I heard that the school is moving online now. I wonder if this will encourage more students to cheat on their Friday exams? When they will be changing from their block schedule since I have been hearing that many students are continuing to fail even after professors have made exams easier? It is clear that PUSOP isn't doing too well.

Also, I hear the school admin have gotten wind of my thread and they are not too thrilled of my honest post.

Will your class also move online?
 
I heard that the school is moving online now. I wonder if this will encourage more students to cheat on their Friday exams? When they will be changing from their block schedule since I have been hearing that many students are continuing to fail even after professors have made exams easier? It is clear that PUSOP isn't doing too well.

Also, I hear the school admin have gotten wind of my thread and they are not too thrilled of my honest post.

Will your class also move online?

What is set up right now is that we are doing live zoom sessions with selected individuals that give us a basic shadowing scenario of their role and location within their job sites (virtual IPPE rotation). We do get patient cases (HIPPA protected of course) and do discussions based on information we are given. The accrediting agency will allow 50 hours worth of this time to count towards our IPPE hours but sometime before APPEs next year we will make up the rest in a hospital setting.

Our community IPPE rotation however is still going to take place in our designated pharmacy locations in July up until school begins. As of right now, the incoming P1 students will take their Fall semester strictly online. In the meantime, we are planning at the beginning of the semester to do zoom sessions if needed but the overall goal is to utilize both pharmacy classrooms to practice social distancing. Either way though, the angle is to be in the building (spread out in breakrooms, classes, and other means necessary) during our exam days. As much as I'd like to be in the classroom at the start of August, I'm preparing myself that this may not take place until further along in the Fall semester. We will still be rotating every other Tuesday to work at our IPPE sites during the Fall session.

The current block scheduling will be changing at the beginning of 2021 Fall semester. Instead of a 90% or higher pass / fail scenario, it will change to a GPA-grading system.

As for faculty and admins catching wind of this thread, that is correct. They know who I am and I am aware of this. I've had a light discussion about it with some members of the faculty and while some information may seem blunt I can only moderate within the TOS and wont revoke other peoples experiences attending specific pharmacy schools. I try to advocate for the profession by focusing on those individuals who have not done research or know little about the profession and try to talk to them about other factors and not just collect a paycheck. Nonetheless, I always make it a point to answer basic questions and prerequisites within the pre-pharmacy and class discussion sub-forums for those aware of the factors and have done the research for themselves.

At this point final decisions are still in the planning on how to approach the Fall semester but up as of now this is the information we have been given thus far.
 
The current block scheduling will be changing at the beginning of 2021 Fall semester. Instead of a 90% or higher pass / fail scenario, it will change to a GPA-grading system.

As for faculty and admins catching wind of this thread, that is correct.

Do you know how many students have been accepted to PUSOP's c/o 2023?
 
Well it is clear that students dropped out. How many students did you lose? Care to tally it out for us?



So who is running APPE Prep and how long have they been at PSOP? I bet they haven't been there long.



Why would they kick anyone out? They need the tuition money.

Unlike you, I don't get bothered about how bad my class is or was. It doesn't affect me the slightest bit. I know that the professors bad mouth your class and the class behind yours. Feel free to take it up with the professors if that fact bothers you. I also know that your class did the poorest of all the classes before on the renal block. Feel free to dispute this because this isn't just a rumor. I won't go into too much detail as I want to remain anonymous.

You should ask more informed students from your class on whether they agree or disagree with my post. It seems like you are the only one from Pacific who feels the opposite of what I have posted. That should make you critically think and reassess your opinion. Additionally, you should tell us about the job market and the 2019 graduates from Pacific and the NAPLEX pass rate.
Your post is 100% accurate -- for some reason, I decided to google PSOP and found this thread. It is very old too. Very happy I did. I was part of the infamous c/o 2018. I was also an ambassador, on the admissions committee, and did some focus groups outside our program. I read the original post and would have to say that the things that happened in the 4th-floor rooms were terrible. The education was terribly set up, constantly gaslit by multiple professors/admin, and the fellows who brought it were not knowledgeable.

We were told specifically what to say, and when to say it. The panels typically were only students, no faculty. I tried to be honest in those sessions.


Additionally, APPE prep was not like that when I was there -- but they needed a way to handle students before the p3 year. We would see Oregon state students often, and we were not equal. We were told specifically what to say during alumni/interview events. My class struggled a lot with things that happened that year. When we asked for help, we were told to try harder. Or just go to a therapist, but in reality, we were needing help academically. My advisor was one of the great professors, but otherwise, we often got left behind. The things that so many of the p1/p2 students pled for over and over were told "not possible." And then on their website in the past year, they are now huge advocates of these things now.


PSOP exposed us to the tremendous stress, and they said "well you did sign up for this." I developed a chronic condition from stress, and when I did receive an FEL P2 year, they said "oh you're struggling with this? Why did you say something, we would have given you an extension on your FEL."

I followed up by explaining that I did try and was told to use a 'therapist.' I was then reminded to be sure I got to my FEL the next day and would absolutely not be receiving an extension.

We were reminded constantly, that this is grad school, pharmacy isn't meant for everyone, and if you keep going it will pay off.

When I decided to leave PSOP it was a huge deal to the program. I'm in a different program now, the grass is greener. 3-year programs are not worth it and PSOP me a letter years later.

They asked for donations from past/former students. They were disappointed with the number of services offered, that it didn't work out.

Lastly, the current enrollment is down 50% from last year, all school enrollment is down everywhere -- but people are talking about PSOP specifically.
 
I am a bit intrigued that this thread has resurfaced:

As an update for myself - I did graduate (c/o 2022) and currently right in the heart of the stressful months of my PGY-1 (Dec - Feb timeframe). As aforementioned for myself, COVID-19 took over during spring break of 2020 and consequently, my cohort never returned to the classroom. I will definitely admit that online studying at a 3-year accelerated program was not an easy situation for me as I questioned my ability to focus and pass my courses (even had to take a LOA when hospitalized during the pandemic).

As far as the structure goes (in case current pre-candidate students are reading): The block system is no longer in existence and a GPA system has been implemented. My group, as well as the current c/o 2023 was grandfathered into the block system so I cannot speak on the successes or downfalls of this change with PSOPs academic system. What I do know is that the NAPLEX pass rate from the c/o 2021 had a 20% drop from the previous reported cycle (93% to 73%).

I am simply an objective individual, but I can understand a common drop from all programs due to the pandemic interfering with didactic studies and rotations. It is however a bit hard to conceptualize such a big drop at PSOP when compared to the average drop of other programs (again, 3-year program vs traditional schooling). Part of this reasoning was shared with us from faculty which was that it took ~ 3 months or longer for grads to sit for the NAPLEX instead of sitting for it near graduation. Well, I quickly applied for my ATT cert in order to sit for the NAPLEX, and I can honestly say that I had to swift through multiple states before I could find a time to sit for the exam (graduated May 21st, took my exam on July 7th) of which, only one spot was available. The next appointment to sit would've been end of August/early September (for my cohorts, Oregon filled up rather quickly with earliest sit dates in September/October).

If I had to compare myself to the neighboring pharmacy school of Oregon State, yes...I did see/feel the difference in my learning curve (as well as from preceptors who liked to do the comparison). Nonetheless, I was able to push myself (grit and discipline like you wouldn't believe). Looking back, I am thankful I survived a 3-year program and was able to make it across the finish line. Would I have done it again with PSOP? Well, my education was 100% covered with a housing allowance + monthly pension...I followed the money and the quickest way to exit out of school. Take away the coverage for school, I will admittingly say I would have gone elsewhere and stayed clear away from 3-year programs. To add to the mix: the online conversion during the pandemic was indeed a terrible transition for my cohort, with plenty of them wishing they had never applied to the program. To each their own - I survived, and am very glad I am done with school.

I predict that turning this 3-year program into a GPA system will cause a massive change of the needle in only two ways:

1) High predictor/success rate of PGY-1 candidates who can complete this program with a high GPA in a faster rate of speed
2) Fail rate + low attrition to PGY-1 acceptances will have an unfortunate dramatic increase when the first class ends up graduating in 2024.

High risk high reward.

I lost a lot of sleep and energy with questionable health, but did graduate and am focusing hard on my completion of my current PGY-1 program. With that, choose wisely what you believe you can/cannot accomplish and know that your weakness/strengths will be magnified when attending a 3-year program (sometimes one or the other...not necessarily both). YMMV and Caveat Emptor.
 
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It was not that bad. We had parties every other week after we passed those exams hehe. I sat on the last row in class and I saw people playing game, shopping, wedding planning...and they still graduated.
 
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