Padding GPA vs. Proving Yourself

[darwinmed]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hi all,

The information on SDN is incredibly helpful. Thanks to each one of you who volunteers advice for others' benefits. It really does make a difference.

I have a question about post-bacc work. Where is the line between "GPA padding" and proving to adcoms you can handle the work?

For example, long story short, I was a Bio major in college, didn't have it together. Used some AP credit, so now I have to take the 2 semesters of intro bio and a few other prereqs. I got a B and a C+ in my intro chem classes. Is it worth repeating this? I know I could get As this time around.

I know I need to do an informal post-back for three reasons:
1. finish pre-reqs
2. prove that I can handle the work
3. boost the GPA

The GPA could use quite a bit of boosting, and I know adcoms like to see people take tough and full semesters to demonstrate their workload management. Basically, why not retake these chem classes? Do adcoms really frown on GPA padding? And why is it so bad?

(I should add that I also plan on taking upper level bio classes, so I wouldn't be subbing an "easy" chem course for a "hard" upper level.)

Thanks for the advice!

 

[ChE04]

I was initially planning on retaking courses that I had taken in undergrad as a sort of refresher of the basics (not due to bad grades, but thought it might help with the MCAT). I had even signed up for the classes, but as I got closer to the first day of classes I decided against repeating and changed my courseload. Reason being: if I was an adcom, and I had a choice between someone who got a 4.0 post-bacc in classes they had already taken, and someone with a 4.0 post-bacc in a whole different set of new classes, the choice would be pretty easy to me. It occured to me that I wouldn't really be "proving" anything by demonstrating that on the second go around in a class I could do as good or better in that class. This also enables me to take more upper level stuff than I was originally planning, too.

PS I actually emailed a med school about this while trying to decide what to do, and they said it was "highly unusual" to retake passed classes, but that I was "more than welcome" to do it. Sounded like a nice way of saying "WTF" to me so I think I made the right choice... Take from my limited experience what you will...

 

[NTF]

If you really feel the need you can retake classes you got a C or below in, but retaking a B would probably be a little silly.

Just remember that when you retake classes there's the expectation you'll do well the second time. If you tank a course twice, it'll hurt worse than getting two bad grades in unrelated courses.

The only real reason I could see justifying retaking a B would be if some of your coursework is ancient. I retook biochem even though I got a B because it had been 13 years since I had last taken it. Most of what I learned back then was outdated.

 

[darwinmed]

Thanks for the advice about the Chemistry.

What I was also trying to get at is what constitutes GPA-padding and how bad is it? I intend to take a full load of classes, and not all of those will be my prereqs. At what point do you exit the "this person is very motivated and can handle a very full load of hard science classes" level and enter the "this person is taking classes just to pad the GPA" level? Do other people have problems with this distinction too or is it just me?

 

[ChE04]

I had the same problem. Are you talking about taking humanities classes as well? I was encouraged by the adviser at my school to take some non-science classes to demonstrate well roundedness. If med schools encourage applicants from non science majors, then any course you are interested in should be fair game for you to take, imo... I am actually taking a class in the history of medicene, disease, and public health this semester. (Oddly enough that's the class I'm most worried about hurting my GPA though...)

 

[darwinmed]

I took a ton of humanities in undergrad; in fact, I double majored in a humanities field. Writing comes easily to me (when I'm not writing on message boards, ha) so I could probably do well in the humanities (and always have), but I think for me it would definitely look like I'm padding at that point since I've taken so many already. I'm perplexed by this padding deal...

 

[riverjib]

If you really feel the need you can retake classes you got a C or below in, but retaking a B would probably be a little silly.

Just remember that when you retake classes there's the expectation you'll do well the second time. If you tank a course twice, it'll hurt worse than getting two bad grades in unrelated courses.

The only real reason I could see justifying retaking a B would be if some of your coursework is ancient. I retook biochem even though I got a B because it had been 13 years since I had last taken it. Most of what I learned back then was outdated.

That's exactly what I was going to say. The only thing I might add is that if it's been a long time, talk to med schools. I started out as an engineering major and finished freshman calc, physics, and chem. A few (not all) of the med schools I spoke to actually told me that I should re-take the basic BCPM classes. They probably were more concerned with bio than anything else (it's the only one that actually changes at the introductory level), but I just started from scratch because it didn't really set me back--one year, at most, and I honestly didn't trust my memory.

It laid the foundation (or reinforced it) for upper-level classes. I didn't really think of it in terms of boosting my GPA, but I should have. I keep forgetting that I have to factor in grades from so long ago in my overall and sGPA.

Unless they tell you to do so, I wouldn't re-take any classes in which you scored at least a C. I've probably gotten some really bad advice, but I have heard from my pre-health committee and plenty of others that if your coursework is "current," relatively speaking, you shouldn't take a class again unless you are SURE you'll get an A the second time around. A C can be explained easily if your grades are generally good and you admit to being unmotivated or confused early on, but they might question why you couldn't achieve better than a B+ the second time around.

I don't really know what people mean by GPA padding in terms of re-taking classes. I think of GPA padding as taking only guaranteed easy A classes instead of taking some chances in a course that is reputed to be tough. Med schools factor in every grade you get, regardless of how many times you take a specific course, so even if your school replaces a D with an A in your GPA, your AMCAS GPA will reflect the D as well as the A.

I'd generally beware re-takes, unless they're really warranted. A friend of mine has an overall 3.7/30 MCAT, and great experience and a fantastic PS. He made the mistake of spending too much time re-taking old classes and insisted on taking the MCAT to replace his 29. He's in his second application cycle, and has dutifully asked for reasons for his rejections. Some schools actually will sit down with you and explain how to improve your application for next year. He's been told by a few schools that his interview (when he made it that far) was favorable, but that they would have preferred that he just "took his lumps" (so to speak) and moved forward with new and more challenging classes or clinical experience. Just one guy's story, so take what you will from it. It sounds pretty reasonable to me.

 

[Mister T]

Hi all,

The information on SDN is incredibly helpful. Thanks to each one of you who volunteers advice for others' benefits. It really does make a difference.

I have a question about post-bacc work. Where is the line between "GPA padding" and proving to adcoms you can handle the work?

For example, long story short, I was a Bio major in college, didn't have it together the first 2.5 years, last 2 were between 3.8 and 4.0. Used some AP credit, so now I have to take the 2 semesters of intro bio (only took one semester in college and got a D+) and a few other prereqs. I got a B and a C+ in my intro chem classes. Is it worth repeating this? I know I could get As this time around.

I know I need to do an informal post-back for three reasons:
1. finish pre-reqs
2. prove that I can handle the work
3. boost the GPA

The GPA could use quite a bit of boosting, and I know adcoms like to see people take tough and full semesters to demonstrate their workload management. Basically, why not retake these chem classes? Do adcoms really frown on GPA padding? And why is it so bad?

(I should add that I also plan on taking upper level bio classes, so I wouldn't be subbing an "easy" chem course for a "hard" upper level.)

Thanks for the advice!

Take a combo of easy lower level and upper level science classes that are easy (of course you might find that there ARE NO easy professors at a college, but you should look hard). Get old exams from kids who took the class before you i.e. say someone is taking biochem this spring. Well, you go to that class, ask some kid for the exams, to save them for you or whatever, and use them when you sign up next time.

I had a biochem class where I did this and the professor just ended up repeating the same old exams from the year before with some very minor numerical changes.

Also for immunology, I chose an adjunct who had a reputation for being a slacker and he gave us open book tests that we could collaborate on. You know how much I studied for that 300 level class? Maybe 3-4 hours before the test.

You know what I got in that class? An A. You know what the kids who spent 20 hours a week in the other section with the other professor got? Bs on average.

Yeah you may say I didn't learn anything, but you know what the admission committee is going to say? Great job, you truly excelled in this class. Besides, I still understood the main concepts, and because I don't remember minute details after the test anyways, it really doesn't bother me because I would forget all those stupid trivia facts anyways.

They don't know and for all practical purposes they don't care so long as you don't say to them it was a joke lol.

Learn how the game works and you'll be in medical school sooner than you know it.

Once you're in medical school, then bust out the hardcore memorizing, and "prove" yourself.

 

[darwinmed]

By padding the GPA I not only mean taking easier classes or repeating classes that I did so-so in before, I also mean taking many upper levels.

So for a hypothetical example, a person needs to take 3 semesters of classes to complete the prereqs. But the GPA could use some bringing up, so that person decides to stay for an extra semester, still taking hard (upper-level) science courses they haven't taken before, doing well in them, and bringing up their GPA. Out of the three reasons for taking post-bacc courses (pre-reqs, proof of ability, boosting GPA), the prereq reason is out, the proof of ability is marginal, since the person has demonstrated over the course of the 3 semesters that they can handle the work, so the only solid remaining reason is the boosting of GPA. I was curious if adcoms frown on this.

 

[DrMidlife]

...boosting of GPA. I was curious if adcoms frown on this.

What's your alternative, not improve your GPA so that you're more "real" and not get in? Adcoms might look askance at basketweaving classes, but there's no stigma whatsoever in earning new, good grades in upper div science. It's called an "upward trend" and supposedly adcoms love it (given acceptable cumulative GPAs).

Come over to the postbac forum for GPA comeback stories.

 

[DrMidlife]

Meanwhile, nobody seems to have mentioned that repeated coursework doesn't wipe out the old grade for MD school GPA calcs. DO schools forgive the old grade.

 

[MacVA]

Note that a majority of medical schools will require you to have at least a "C" in order to count the credit. Email the schools you may be interested in for more information.

Don't retake a B... 🙂

 

[crudder]

If you ended up taking some of your pre-reqs (but not most) around 6-8 years ago but did not do well, wouldn't retaking them be a good thing?

I would say don't retake if you did well... but if you are a career changer or doing a post-bac, it'll probably be worthwhile to retake your BCPM classes to not only refresh your memory but show you can do well in them...I mean don't take them if you think you'll do poorly in them.

Here's my line of reasoning...forget about GPA padding. As DrMidLife said, you NEED to increase your GPA. Also, what's the point of taking BioChem if you don't even remember Orgo? But also remember to take a handful of upper div. courses you have not taken to show you can do it.

 

[QofQuimica]

If your question is, should you take hard classes (i.e., upper level sciences) to prove you can handle the work, or should you re-take the prereqs you made less than a B in to boost your GPA, my answer is yes. As in, this is not a zero sum game. Do both.