Pain fellowship- should I do it?

[Laurel123]

Hello everyone.

I am an anesthesiologist in private practice. I enjoy my job, but I have always been interested in pain management, especially the interventional aspect. However, out of residency, I wanted to have 3 kids, so I didn't think I could do a flouro heavy fellowship while being pregnant. Now, six years later, I will soon be done childbearing and I still have a desire to do a pain fellowship. Anyone gone back to a fellowship after years in private practice? Were you 'rusty' academically?

And is it worth it? Obviously I am not young anymore and I have been used to making good money in private practice. Do you feel I will greatly increase my job prospects or lifestyle?

Thanks in advance for any input.

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[jsaul]

Hello everyone.

I am an anesthesiologist in private practice. I enjoy my job, but I have always been interested in pain management, especially the interventional aspect. However, out of residency, I wanted to have 3 kids, so I didn't think I could do a flouro heavy fellowship while being pregnant. Now, six years later, I will soon be done childbearing and I still have a desire to do a pain fellowship. Anyone gone back to a fellowship after years in private practice? Were you 'rusty' academically?

And is it worth it? Obviously I am not young anymore and I have been used to making good money in private practice. Do you feel I will greatly increase my job prospects or lifestyle?

Thanks in advance for any input.

If I were you I would stay where you are. You enjoy your job you make good money...

 

[GuP]

Hello everyone.

I am an anesthesiologist in private practice. I enjoy my job, but I have always been interested in pain management, especially the interventional aspect. However, out of residency, I wanted to have 3 kids, so I didn't think I could do a flouro heavy fellowship while being pregnant. Now, six years later, I will soon be done childbearing and I still have a desire to do a pain fellowship. Anyone gone back to a fellowship after years in private practice? Were you 'rusty' academically?

And is it worth it? Obviously I am not young anymore and I have been used to making good money in private practice. Do you feel I will greatly increase my job prospects or lifestyle?

Thanks in advance for any input.

In a nutshell: NO

 

[emd123]

Hello everyone.

I am an anesthesiologist in private practice. I enjoy my job, but I have always been interested in pain management, especially the interventional aspect. However, out of residency, I wanted to have 3 kids, so I didn't think I could do a flouro heavy fellowship while being pregnant. Now, six years later, I will soon be done childbearing and I still have a desire to do a pain fellowship. Anyone gone back to a fellowship after years in private practice? Were you 'rusty' academically?

And is it worth it? Obviously I am not young anymore and I have been used to making good money in private practice. Do you feel I will greatly increase my job prospects or lifestyle?

Thanks in advance for any input.

If you enjoy your job, why would you be considering a career change? Anesthesia and outpatient Pain are completely different. Obviously, if you are happy, you wouldn't be looking to make a change. Which is it?

 

[Gauss]

you sound satisfied, why screw that up?

 

[drf]

Two of my pain cofellows had been in Pp gas for a decade. Both were unhappy with the group they were in and late calls. Both love pain and are doing great.

 

[Ducttape]

thats a tough decision.

you obviously like anesthesiology, even with the long calls, weekends, nights, etc.

you dont have to worry about the bad lifestyle with pain. on the other hand, the other problems with pain do rear its head, such as marketing yourself, establishing a practice, finding a referral base, etc. you wont necessarily be improving your job options - there is a lot more need for good anesthesiologists.

in terms of "going back", given that you have an anesthesiology training, i dont think that should limit your decision. Some of us "went back" and did an anesthesiology residency late in life, and did fine in pain.

in the fellowship program that i went to, there were a couple recent fellows that came back to pain medicine after private practice. they had no issues (both of them had "secured" jobs in pain waiting for them when they finished, which is the way to go...)

 

[PinchandBurn]

do the pain fellowship at an ACGME accredited fellowship IF you want to do pain. Otherwise, all sorts of questions could be potentially asked of you, why risk it, who knows where managed care is heading........


On the other hand, you do seem satisfied with Anes, so then why ruin a good thing?

 

[Laurel123]

Thanks for the input. Guess it is a little divided. For those that are wondering why:
I do enjoy my job. For now. But the writing is on the wall. Each year, we are getting just a little more in house call obligation. The cases are getting just a little less. And I am getting older. Taking a busy 24 hour OB call is lucrative and cool when I was 30 and without children. Now I have two young kids, I am older and more tired (thanks to the kids) and the call is brutal. It is every 6th night in house call, and while we are paid well for it, it is taking its toll, and I don't feel like it is sustainable into my 40's and 50's. The two other practices in this area have about the same call responsibility.

So I started doing some job searches. And just saw a lot of pain openings. And it revitalized my interest in pain management I always had. And yes, lifestyle is a factor - as is an interest in patient care, cutting edge technology and interventions.

But I feel like most people think I am crazy to consider going back to fellowship.

Again, thank you for the opinions.

 

[101N]

Thanks for the input. Guess it is a little divided. For those that are wondering why:
I do enjoy my job. For now. But the writing is on the wall. Each year, we are getting just a little more in house call obligation. The cases are getting just a little less. And I am getting older. Taking a busy 24 hour OB call is lucrative and cool when I was 30 and without children. Now I have two young kids, I am older and more tired (thanks to the kids) and the call is brutal. It is every 6th night in house call, and while we are paid well for it, it is taking its toll, and I don't feel like it is sustainable into my 40's and 50's. The two other practices in this area have about the same call responsibility.

So I started doing some job searches. And just saw a lot of pain openings. And it revitalized my interest in pain management I always had. And yes, lifestyle is a factor - as is an interest in patient care, cutting edge technology and interventions.

But I feel like most people think I am crazy to consider going back to fellowship.

Again, thank you for the opinions.

You should do what you want, but don't do it for $. You probably already make more than most of us.

 

[hyperalgesia]

Thanks for the input. Guess it is a little divided. For those that are wondering why:
I do enjoy my job. For now. But the writing is on the wall. Each year, we are getting just a little more in house call obligation. The cases are getting just a little less. And I am getting older. Taking a busy 24 hour OB call is lucrative and cool when I was 30 and without children. Now I have two young kids, I am older and more tired (thanks to the kids) and the call is brutal. It is every 6th night in house call, and while we are paid well for it, it is taking its toll, and I don't feel like it is sustainable into my 40's and 50's. The two other practices in this area have about the same call responsibility.

So I started doing some job searches. And just saw a lot of pain openings. And it revitalized my interest in pain management I always had. And yes, lifestyle is a factor - as is an interest in patient care, cutting edge technology and interventions.

But I feel like most people think I am crazy to consider going back to fellowship.

Again, thank you for the opinions.

The reality is that many (most?) of the job offers you see aren't as good as advertised. It is way too easy for a "pain doc" to set up a practice that is corrupt, unethical, and designed only to extract as many healthcare dollars as possible.

On the surface these practices look like a smooth running machines with ridiculous income and great lifestyle. But they eat up and spit out well-intentioned docs all the time.

I get these post cards that say "base salary of 600k, blah blah blah". When I go interview and look at the contract, it gives 600k with one hand and takes 500k and your soul with the other.

Not trying to discourage, just saying that the grass may LOOK greener, it isn't necessarily so..

 

[Ducttape]

Thanks for the input. Guess it is a little divided. For those that are wondering why:
I do enjoy my job. For now. But the writing is on the wall. Each year, we are getting just a little more in house call obligation. The cases are getting just a little less. And I am getting older. Taking a busy 24 hour OB call is lucrative and cool when I was 30 and without children. Now I have two young kids, I am older and more tired (thanks to the kids) and the call is brutal. It is every 6th night in house call, and while we are paid well for it, it is taking its toll, and I don't feel like it is sustainable into my 40's and 50's. The two other practices in this area have about the same call responsibility.

So I started doing some job searches. And just saw a lot of pain openings. And it revitalized my interest in pain management I always had. And yes, lifestyle is a factor - as is an interest in patient care, cutting edge technology and interventions.

But I feel like most people think I am crazy to consider going back to fellowship.

Again, thank you for the opinions.

as you get older, the "cush" anesthesia jobs will also get more and more competitive, esp. with all the CRNAs being turned out.

however, starting in pain is also not easy.

in terms of going back, if you really want to learn about pain medicine, and have a strong interest, you should. this is from a person that went and did an anesthesiology residency/pain fellowship as his midlife crisis

(i still dream about that red sports car...).

it may be harder for you to remember things, but your experience and technical skills will be much better than any starting fellow. and much of pain fellowship revolves around technical skills and judgement rather than rote memorization...

 

[Jcm800]

No!

I have pretty busy practice that I basically built from the ground up, and sweated blood to make this ship sail. Only to have some disaster either real or impending around every corner. I make more than i did as an anesthesiologist, but not that much more, and there is more stress with running a business, worrying about having the procedures you trained to do, and are good at becoming essentially non-viable due to reimbursement, and the threat of someone moving in next door with less ethics and putting you out of business.

the grass is always greener, but I almost wouldnt mind a an OB call now, with the next day off, and my same paycheck every 2 weeks. Anesthesia is NOT going away, it may be encroached upon by CRNAs, but your job is essential, flexible, "low stress" except for the actual doing the cases (in the OR, it can be mad stressful) and you can pick up and move if you need to (not easy with family and kids, especially three, you lunatic)

so i say not no, i say HELL NO!!!!

i may not be awake at night putting in an epidural, but i am awake at night (sometimes) worried if i can make payroll.

as you get older, the "cush" anesthesia jobs will also get more and more competitive, esp. with all the CRNAs being turned out.

however, starting in pain is also not easy.

in terms of going back, if you really want to learn about pain medicine, and have a strong interest, you should. this is from a person that went and did an anesthesiology residency/pain fellowship as his midlife crisis

(i still dream about that red sports car...).

it may be harder for you to remember things, but your experience and technical skills will be much better than any starting fellow. and much of pain fellowship revolves around technical skills and judgement rather than rote memorization...

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

Also consider that every year for the past several years, CMS has been attacking pain management with a sword. fluoro is being bundled with every procedure, then the procedures pay less and/or you have to bill less units than you used to bill.

Add to that that CMS wants to cut procedural payments across the board until they equal E&M payments.

Pain management may not even be profitable in 5 years.

 

[SSdoc33]

if i hear you correctly, its really not about the money. its about the time. if you do a fellowship, then work for a hospital, you will make a decent enough salary without the call. if you dont work that hard or see that many patients, you wont get paid a ton, but im guessing that is OK in your book.

one factor that hasnt been mentioned is that if you are truly dedicated, work hard, and are interested in making "more" money....... these patients will suck the life out of you. you have to have a personality type that is, shall we say.... patient. big difference then when they are asleep most of the time in the OR.

any chance of a part-time anesthesiology gig? maybe a bit farther from where you live? that would be my first angle -- fair warning: i am a physiatrist.

 

[jsaul]

if i hear you correctly, its really not about the money. its about the time. if you do a fellowship, then work for a hospital, you will make a decent enough salary without the call. if you dont work that hard or see that many patients, you wont get paid a ton, but im guessing that is OK in your book.

one factor that hasnt been mentioned is that if you are truly dedicated, work hard, and are interested in making "more" money....... these patients will suck the life out of you. you have to have a personality type that is, shall we say.... patient. big difference then when they are asleep most of the time in the OR.

any chance of a part-time anesthesiology gig? maybe a bit farther from where you live? that would be my first angle -- fair warning: i am a physiatrist.

agree with this... reiumbursements dwindling, hassles increasing and pain patients will suck the life out of you. If you are a young mother you don't want to come home to your kids in a pissed off mood because you have been fighting with patients etc. take a part time gas gig

 

[emd123]

There is no perfect specialty. Choose your poison. Pain patients are tough. So is staying up all night working, then spending the next 3 days trying to readjust your circadian rhythms.

Working 8-4 Mon-Fri with no nights, weekends and holidays is a schedule lots of docs in other specialties will drool over. Are pain patients always fun? No. Are psych patients "fun"? No, yet psychiatrists manage to go to work each day. Is working a 24 hour trauma shift as fun when you are 50 as it was when a surgeon was a 27 year old intern? I doubt it.

I'm not an anesthesiologist, so I don't know, Pain could suck compared to general anesthesia, but compared to some other specialties it's better.

So many medical specialties suck the life out of you with their schedule, that the regular hours Pain offers is a huge plus. I'm fairly new in Pain, so I can't say that I ever saw the days of $1000 epidurals that I could just line up like an assembly line. So, I haven't really had to suffer that come down. I'm sure if i did, I'd be irate, and singing a different tune. Yet I haven't heard any of the the former gas passers come on here and declare that they're going back to gas, either.

I can say that I left a particularly draining, high burnout specialty as an experienced attending to do an ACGME Pain fellowship, and so far, my worst day in Pain can't even hold a candle to my worst day in my previous gig. Maybe it's still too new and I'll eat my words, I don't know.

I think if you remind yourself that working bankers hours is a huge luxury in medicine, then dealing with the difficult patients becomes a little easier. Also, focusing as much as possible on interventions and other non-opiate therapies, and making it clear to your patients that's your philosophy, helps.

Maybe I'll eat my words if in 5 years my salary drops 50% and no other specialties do. If all specialties get cut 50%, then I guess we're all screwed.

Being a doc is hard. No matter what specialty you work, they all want something from you. Derm patients can be pissed you cant fix their rash. Plastic surgery patients can get irate that their boob job came out lopsided. Primary care docs have to listen to the same chronic pain patients at half the salary, with hospital call!

So, choose your poison.

 

[facets]

I did part-time pain and part-time anesth for 10 years. I decided that I hated working with surgeons, I hated having no contact with patients, and I hated being treated like a servant and being compared to a CRNA. I love patient interactions and making a difference in peoples lives. That's what made the decision for me. I quit doing anes 13 years ago and would never, ever, do it again. I was actually quite good at it, never had a suit or death, tops in my class and on the boards, and hated being treated as a subordinate by surgeons when most of the time i was smarter than them. Maybe things have changed over the years but I doubt it. Do you even have a name or are you "anesthesia." Now that I'm older, in my fifties, the thought of going back to the OR turns my stomach. If I heard "anesthesia raise the table" one more time I would go postal. You are still young. go for it.

 

[facets]

PS- To any surgeons lurking out there, don't ever fu*&ing say "anesthesia raise the table again" look up and acknowledge the fellow physician there, who may have kicked your as# all through medical school and say DR XYZ please raise the table. Trust me, anesthesiologist can be VERY passive aggressive, your cases may be delayed, their lab is abnormal, they took a sip of water 2 hours ago, the EKG looks funny, wait I hear a murmur, she needs cardiac clearance. Yelling at the anesthesiologist is as stupid as yelling at your wife, especially if she is from the south, she may nothing, even smile but what she is thinking is "you just wait you SOB I will burn you in your bed." Southern girls are raised to be pleasant, smiling, and charming at al times, even when they are planning a homicide, similar to hospital based physicians, both lack overt power but boy are they passive aggressive. Trust me, you will rue the day that you pick a fight will a hospital based physician, or a southern belle.

 

[EtherBunny]

There is no perfect specialty. Choose your poison. Pain patients are tough. So is staying up all night working, then spending the next 3 days trying to readjust your circadian rhythms.

Working 8-4 Mon-Fri with no nights, weekends and holidays is a schedule lots of docs in other specialties will drool over. Are pain patients always fun? No. Are psych patients "fun"? No, yet psychiatrists manage to go to work each day. Is working a 24 hour trauma shift as fun when you are 50 as it was when a surgeon was a 27 year old intern? I doubt it.

I'm not an anesthesiologist, so I don't know, Pain could suck compared to general anesthesia, but compared to some other specialties it's better.

So many medical specialties suck the life out of you with their schedule, that the regular hours Pain offers is a huge plus. I'm fairly new in Pain, so I can't say that I ever saw the days of $1000 epidurals that I could just line up like an assembly line. So, I haven't really had to suffer that come down. I'm sure if i did, I'd be irate, and singing a different tune. Yet I haven't heard any of the the former gas passers come on here and declare that they're going back to gas, either.

I can say that I left a particularly draining, high burnout specialty as an experienced attending to do an ACGME Pain fellowship, and so far, my worst day in Pain can't even hold a candle to my worst day in my previous gig. Maybe it's still too new and I'll eat my words, I don't know.

I think if you remind yourself that working bankers hours is a huge luxury in medicine, then dealing with the difficult patients becomes a little easier. Also, focusing as much as possible on interventions and other non-opiate therapies, and making it clear to your patients that's your philosophy, helps.

Maybe I'll eat my words if in 5 years my salary drops 50% and no other specialties do. If all specialties get cut 50%, then I guess we're all screwed.

Being a doc is hard. No matter what specialty you work, they all want something from you. Derm patients can be pissed you cant fix their rash. Plastic surgery patients can get irate that their boob job came out lopsided. Primary care docs have to listen to the same chronic pain patients at half the salary, with hospital call!

So, choose your poison.

Amen to that. All the crap that people complain about on this forum isn't unique to pain. Any field of medicine that involves extensive contact with patients in an outpatient setting--derm being a possible exception--is physically and emotionally draining. That just goes with the territory of being a physician and genuinely caring about your patients.

I would rather deal with the stress of difficult patients, and in the process be perceived as a physician, than be an anonymous "anesthesia provider" and deal with all the political bs of OR anesthesia (always being compared to CRNAs, the lack of respect by other health care professionals, always being an afterthought in any decisions by hospital administrators, etc.). Being a pain physician may be very draining at times, but at least you're treated as a physician by your patients and your colleagues, instead of being perceived as some glorified CRNA equivalent. Being called "anesthesia" by all the OR staff gets REALLY old. Surgeons can be infuriating, especially when they try to dictate the type of anesthetic. I didn't go to school for 30 years to be treated like an expendable peon.

You guys can complain all you want, but I think pain is an amazing gig: No in house call, very few emergencies, a more traditional doctor patient relationship than OR anesthesia, tons of procedures, decent pay, predictable hours, more professional respect, the opportunity to "be your own boss"... So many great things. OR anesthesia sucks. Pain management is the way to go.

Just my $.02.

 

[SSdoc33]

PS- To any surgeons lurking out there, don't ever fu*&ing say "anesthesia raise the table again" look up and acknowledge the fellow physician there, who may have kicked your as# all through medical school and say DR XYZ please raise the table. Trust me, anesthesiologist can be VERY passive aggressive, your cases may be delayed, their lab is abnormal, they took a sip of water 2 hours ago, the EKG looks funny, wait I hear a murmur, she needs cardiac clearance. Yelling at the anesthesiologist is as stupid as yelling at your wife, especially if she is from the south, she may nothing, even smile but what she is thinking is "you just wait you SOB I will burn you in your bed." Southern girls are raised to be pleasant, smiling, and charming at al times, even when they are planning a homicide, similar to hospital based physicians, both lack overt power but boy are they passive aggressive. Trust me, you will rue the day that you pick a fight will a hospital based physician, or a southern belle.

post this on the surgeon's forum.

and the "southern belle" forum.

 

[facets]

Why dumbsh#$, they already know that quite well, it was advice to the rest of you, duh

post this on

the "southern belle" forum.

 

[Ducttape]

I did part-time pain and part-time anesth for 10 years. I decided that I hated working with surgeons, I hated having no contact with patients, and I hated being treated like a servant and being compared to a CRNA. I love patient interactions and making a difference in peoples lives. That's what made the decision for me. I quit doing anes 13 years ago and would never, ever, do it again. I was actually quite good at it, never had a suit or death, tops in my class and on the boards, and hated being treated as a subordinate by surgeons when most of the time i was smarter than them. Maybe things have changed over the years but I doubt it. Do you even have a name or are you "anesthesia." Now that I'm older, in my fifties, the thought of going back to the OR turns my stomach. If I heard "anesthesia raise the table" one more time I would go postal. You are still young. go for it.

personally, i love that commercial "Anesthesia On!"

i think this is the link.... http://adland.tv/commercials/ford-sync-anesthesia-2008-30-usa

 

[SSdoc33]

Why dumbsh#$, they already know that quite well, it was advice to the rest of you, duh

well, thats just facets being facets.

i meant that posting it would piss them off and get a huge reaction. could be fun.

 

[Gauss]

but at least you're treated as a physician by your patients and your colleagues,

a more traditional doctor patient relationship than OR anesthesia, tons of procedures, decent pay, predictable hours, more professional respect, the opportunity to "be your own boss"...

imagine the opposite of everything you just said and that is the real world

 

[Jcm800]

Why dumbsh#$, they already know that quite well, it was advice to the rest of you, duh

who, the southern belles?

 

[Jcm800]

imagine the opposite of everything you just said and that is the real world

more true than untrue

 

[facets]

Is their a southern Belle forum here? We could have a lot of fun!

well, thats just facets being facets.

i meant that posting it would piss them off and get a huge reaction. could be fun.

 

[facets]

My point was that people with no overt power, hospital physicans, or women under the male dominated southern culture will smile, be pleasent, cooperative, even charming to your face then will find every possible way of making your life miserable. They can be very hard to read unless you understand the culture. As my charming southern bred mother would say "I'd rather get bit in the butt by a mad rattler than cross paths with her." Ditto for hospital physician's they have day long to plan how they are going to screw up your schedule if you behave rudely.

 

[BCM]

Hello everyone.

I am an anesthesiologist in private practice. I enjoy my job, but I have always been interested in pain management, especially the interventional aspect. However, out of residency, I wanted to have 3 kids, so I didn't think I could do a flouro heavy fellowship while being pregnant. Now, six years later, I will soon be done childbearing and I still have a desire to do a pain fellowship. Anyone gone back to a fellowship after years in private practice? Were you 'rusty' academically?

And is it worth it? Obviously I am not young anymore and I have been used to making good money in private practice. Do you feel I will greatly increase my job prospects or lifestyle?

Thanks in advance for any input.

If practicing pain is what you really want then I say go for it. It is hard to go back into training after practicing but you are only talking about 12 months for the pain fellowship. The time will go by very fast. After practicing for 10 years in primary care, I went back to Anesthesiology residency. The first couple months were tough but it wasn’t bad after that. I was worried I would have trouble learning new skills and working the long hours again as well but it was easier than I thought. It helps if you have a supportive family and spouse/partner. Feel free to PM me if you have questions and good luck.

 

[Ligament]

well, thats just facets being facets.

i meant that posting it would piss them off and get a huge reaction. could be fun.

I appreciate having seasoned docs on here like facets who have some balls/ovaries and are not afraid to voice their opinions.

BTW, who IS the most seasoned on here? I think its either Algos or Mr. Misixidsowenod, but there are some on hear who have indicated mutiple decades of practice.

 

[Laurel123]

Love the candid responses. Great group here. I must say, this has been enlightening. And in case you guys were curious, I am very likely NOT going to try the fellowship. Too risky for my taste. With a tight job market, I will appreciate my job for now. I think i will keep looking for other options, but I don't think for now, this is the right route. I suppose I sort of regret not doing it right away, but I can't lament the past.

 

[facets]

This is my 23rd year

Now, how do we stir up some fun on the other forum

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

This is my 23rd year

Now, how do we stir up some fun on the other forum

Copy-paste what you wrote up there into the surgeon's forum.

I'll grab the popcorn and a footstool.

 

[bedrock]

PS- To any surgeons lurking out there, don't ever fu*&ing say "anesthesia raise the table again" look up and acknowledge the fellow physician there, who may have kicked your as# all through medical school and say DR XYZ please raise the table. Trust me, anesthesiologist can be VERY passive aggressive, your cases may be delayed, their lab is abnormal, they took a sip of water 2 hours ago, the EKG looks funny, wait I hear a murmur, she needs cardiac clearance. Yelling at the anesthesiologist is as stupid as yelling at your wife, especially if she is from the south, she may nothing, even smile but what she is thinking is "you just wait you SOB I will burn you in your bed." Southern girls are raised to be pleasant, smiling, and charming at al times, even when they are planning a homicide, similar to hospital based physicians, both lack overt power but boy are they passive aggressive. Trust me, you will rue the day that you pick a fight will a hospital based physician, or a southern belle.

Yes, please post this on the surgery boards and post a link. I'd love to see the responses to that one!

 

[facets]

OK guys, grab some popcorn, this could be quite amusing.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=12506157#post12506157

 

[Jcm800]

Fwiw I think you are making the right decision. The grass is always greener. I started thinking about doing anesthesia again, and my partner slapped me and woke me up...

Good luck. Enjoy the silence of a sleeping patient, they can't walk over and point to one tiny little spot where it really hurts on your rhomboids haha

 

[facets]

So far, it's barely been worth rattling the cages. Something about not taking the eyes the surgical field to see who is behind the screen, ha, until the cute young nurse walks by, then the patient could fall off the table and they wouldn't notice. Who are they kidding? Oh, I don't miss those days. I would rather listen to patients whine all day long than listen to one more narcissistic pric* who can't get his ego through the OR door call me "anesthesia."

 

[bedrock]

So far, it's barely been worth rattling the cages. Something about not taking the eyes the surgical field to see who is behind the screen, ha, until the cute young nurse walks by, then the patient could fall off the table and they wouldn't notice. Who are they kidding? Oh, I don't miss those days. I would rather listen to patients whine all day long than listen to one more narcissistic pric* who can't get his ego through the OR door call me "anesthesia."

I would post it on the general surgery board which is fairly active. The ortho board has minimal activity in general

 

[SLUser11]

So far, it's barely been worth rattling the cages. Something about not taking the eyes the surgical field to see who is behind the screen, ha, until the cute young nurse walks by, then the patient could fall off the table and they wouldn't notice. Who are they kidding? Oh, I don't miss those days. I would rather listen to patients whine all day long than listen to one more narcissistic pric* who can't get his ego through the OR door call me "anesthesia."

It sounds like you actually contribute in the pain forum, so I would advise against coming to the surgery forums to pick a fight for several reasons:

1. You'll be banned quickly
2. You'll see near-zero traffic in the ortho forum (you're doing it wrong), so you'll have to wait patiently for the inflammatory respose you desire.
3. You will eventually succeed in starting another surgery vs. anesthesia war, which is the most used out topic of all time.

4. You will ultimately lose because we're all a bunch of last-word freaks that don't admit defeat....even if bested.
5. You will create an unfairly bad name for pain specialists in general, who as a group are not childish and insecure.

I personally treat anesthesiologists with a great deal of respect, and I think the surgical stereotype you described is not as common as you think. I'm sorry that you're butt-hurt over your previous job, but there's no reason to start a war with a bunch of strangers...nobody likes a Saturday night keyboard warrior.

 

[Jcm800]

It sounds like you actually contribute in the pain forum, so I would advise against coming to the surgery forums to pick a fight for several reasons:

1. You'll be banned quickly
2. You'll see near-zero traffic in the ortho forum (you're doing it wrong), so you'll have to wait patiently for the inflammatory respose you desire.
3. You will eventually succeed in starting another surgery vs. anesthesia war, which is the most used out topic of all time.

4. You will ultimately lose because we're all a bunch of last-word freaks that don't admit defeat....even if bested.
5. You will create an unfairly bad name for pain specialists in general, who as a group are not childish and insecure.

I personally treat anesthesiologists with a great deal of respect, and I think the surgical stereotype you described is not as common as you think. I'm sorry that you're butt-hurt over your previous job, but there's no reason to start a war with a bunch of strangers...nobody likes a Saturday night keyboard warrior.

OH YEAH??

I know you are but what am I!!???!?!

 

[facets]

Actually I was expressing how lousy i think the field of anesthesia is to another anesthesiologist who was interested in jumping ship and going into pain, so I gave her my view of why being an anesthesiologist is such a crappy job, and a lot of it has to deal with how crappy we are treated by surgeons. The anesthesiologist might actually go into the room if the surgeon did not treat us like servants, then they cry when they can't get one in the room, all I can get is a crna-duh-who would want to be around you?
I actually don't want to be in the surgical forums, I left anesthesia 13 years ago and never looked back, and really don't care what they think anymore and don't wish to converse with them
I was actually encouraged by 2 of my colleagues to post my post on the surgical forum, they thought it would be entertaining, to read the responses. I did it to humor them, I don't they had much planned for the weekend, But I certainally am not wasteing any more time there.
."I personally treat anesthesiologists with a great deal of respect, and I think the surgical stereotype you described is not as common as you think."
Oh, yes it is, I did OR anesthesia for 13 years which was my point to the physician considering pain. Why do you want to spend the rest of your life being treated as a second class citizen? And by the way the same advice goes for nurses. You see physicians walk into a room and yell and scream at the nurses, vs nicely asking for what he wants, Who do you think gets what he wants faster, the considerate guy or the stormin Norman, those nurses will do everything they can to mess up his day without being overtly aggressive. Anyone who picks a fight with an OR nurse is an idiot.
"You will create an unfairly bad name for pain specialists in general, who as a group are not childish and insecure". PLeazze-you guys can't even agree on X boxes and cars
Have a good night all

It sounds like you actually contribute in the pain forum, so I would advise against coming to the surgery forums to pick a fight for several reasons:

1. You'll be banned quickly
2. You'll see near-zero traffic in the ortho forum (you're doing it wrong), so you'll have to wait patiently for the inflammatory respose you desire.
3. You will eventually succeed in starting another surgery vs. anesthesia war, which is the most used out topic of all time.

4. You will ultimately lose because we're all a bunch of last-word freaks that don't admit defeat....even if bested.
5. You will create an unfairly bad name for pain specialists in general, who as a group are not childish and insecure.

I personally treat anesthesiologists with a great deal of respect, and I think the surgical stereotype you described is not as common as you think. I'm sorry that you're butt-hurt over your previous job, but there's no reason to start a war with a bunch of strangers...nobody likes a Saturday night keyboard warrior.

 

[facets]

BTW How do you hide a $100 bill from an orthopedic surgeon?
Put it in a textbook
How do you hide a $100 bill from a plastic surgeon?
You can't

 

[Jcm800]

BTW How do you hide a $100 bill from an orthopedic surgeon?
Put it in a textbook
How do you hide a $100 bill from a plastic surgeon?
You can't

how do yo u hide it from a general surgeon? put it under a dressing

 

[Chakrabs]

Came across this thread from the surgery forum. Glad to see its classy and professional. Carry on, you guys clearly have plenty of free time on your hands.

 

[PMR2008]

Came across this thread from the surgery forum. Glad to see its classy and professional. Carry on, you guys clearly have plenty of free time on your hands.

Talking about class and professionalism here is my favorite


What is the definition of a double blind study?

Two Orthopedic surgeons looking at an EKG

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

Came across this thread from the surgery forum. Glad to see its classy and professional. Carry on, you guys clearly have plenty of free time on your hands.

Lol. Just like the surgical forums...

 

[facets]

I
It's impossible not to poke fun at surgeons, they are so self important. Actually, the personalities vary greatly by sub-specialty. OB-gyns, generally kind and empathetic, plastic surgeons, picky beyond belief, I remember doing a boob job when I was a resident I swear the table went from sitting to supine at least 110 times as the fellow and his attending stood there and stared, walked across the room and stared, made an adjustment, put her back up and stared. I felt like yelling, " just put the darn things in, whoever she is trying to impress will be happy just to be there! " And why are orthopedic surgeons such big dumb brutes? A patient who had been out of the RR for 3 hours crashed on the floor and told the nurses "give a unit dose of atropine" what is that anyway?, she called me instead. I asked him later if he had listened to her heart. He said and this is a direct quote" I don't own one, the heart exists to pump the blood to the muscles to move the bones" WTF?! Cardiac and neuro surgeons, no room is big enough to contain their egos. You PMR guys have no idea what you missed. The worst day in a pain clinic is better than the best day of an anesthesiologist.

 

[Gauss]

try co-existing with them in clinic, it's about the same. and it rubs off onto their PA's which pisses me off

 

[facets]

No thanks, as my momma would have said "I'd rather get bit in the butt by a mad rattler" I'm in solo practice, I get along great with myself-most days