Paleo "diet"

[KCBarbarossa]

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Anyone have any feelings on this diet?

How do you stay in shape? I've become an advocate of fitness being 80% diet and 20% exercise.

 

[pgg]

Why, are you hoping for a paleo life expectancy? 😉


Smartassery aside, I would think to get the full benefit of a paleo diet, one must also live a paleo lifestyle. And if you're going to live that kind of active lifestyle (presumably minus the periods of starvation and malnutrition, exposure to the elements, risk of homicide at the hands of paleo colleagues, etc) then maybe you'd be better off with a well planned modern diet.

I've already outlived the average paleo-human, and moments ago I stuffed some hot wings and quesadillas down my gullet. I skipped the ranch dressing though.

 

[Mman]

Anyone have any feelings on this diet?

How do you stay in shape? I've become an advocate of fitness being 80% diet and 20% exercise.

Moderation is key. There is nothing wrong with skipping out on lots of processed foods and sugars. Lean protein, fruits, veggies, etc. are all very good for you. But the paleo diet takes it to an extreme that is unlikely to be beneficial. The followers of it claim that we evolved eating that kind of food for 10,000 years. But as already mentioned, we evolved living for 20 or 30 year lifespans. Cavemen didn't die of cancer or heart disease because they didn't live long enough to get those diseases, not because their diet protected them from it.

 

[countingdays]

Anyone have any feelings on this diet?

How do you stay in shape? I've become an advocate of fitness being 80% diet and 20% exercise.

I know a couple with obese families who went on the paleo diet and slimed down and feel better, no paleo lifestyle changes. Tons of fat people eat lots of low fat high carb meals. Fat is filling. Makes some sense. You have to commit to it though.

 

[scudrunner]

Anyone have any feelings on this diet?

How do you stay in shape? I've become an advocate of fitness being 80% diet and 20% exercise.

Perfectly healthy and effective, just not sustainable unless you are a caveman.

 

[HalO'Thane]

As mentioned earlier, I think any diet that cuts down on processed foods, refined carbs, and sugars and focuses on lean proteins, fruits, and veggies will be effective. e.g. paleo, south beach, you name it. Blood sugar spikes and hyperinsulinemia are bad. My only concern with something as extreme as the paleo diet is do we really know with 100% certainty what and how much our paleo ancestors ate everyday? We are basing this diet on 2000-3000 calories/day with 30-40% protein composition. Our paleo ancestors had very primitive tools and had to hunt animals large and small in all types of conditions. They probably went days at a time without a successful hunt and probably had to rely on whatever fruits and berries they could forage until then. It seems crazy to me to try to extrapolate their lifestyle to our present day one...but I get the gist of what proponents of the paleo diet are trying to advocate.

 

[Ballints]

Based on pubmed and personal experience, I would say that diet has very little effect on your weight. It is proven that Dash diet leads to weight loss, but those #s that they quote are very modest compared to what I can get with exercise even if I eat at mcdonalds. But numerous studies show that good diet can prevent disease even if you have more bodyfat than someone who eats mcdonalds and exercises more than you.

As for thoughts on that diet, I think it has a lot in common with many other diets. Thats eating more fruits/vegetables. Somehow I do not expect people who frequent mcdonalds to also eat a couple of apples, avocados, oranges throughout the day. How about broccoli+fish for dinner? Because I think it is much easier to avoid mcdonalds(and replace it with some candy bars that you buy at a supermarket or in a restaurant) than it is to actually make fruits/vegetables a significant % of your daily calories. Some people think that if you eat low fat dairy products and oatmeal(the type that you boil over 10mins) then you're not on a diet. But I think that just means you are on paleolithic + some other diet that values oatmeal, dairy,etc.

 

[Ballints]

As mentioned earlier, I think any diet that cuts down on processed foods, refined carbs, and sugars and focuses on lean proteins, fruits, and veggies will be effective. e.g. paleo, south beach, you name it. Blood sugar spikes and hyperinsulinemia are bad. My only concern with something as extreme as the paleo diet is do we really know with 100% certainty what and how much our paleo ancestors ate everyday? We are basing this diet on 2000-3000 calories/day with 30-40% protein composition. Our paleo ancestors had very primitive tools and had to hunt animals large and small in all types of conditions. They probably went days at a time without a successful hunt and probably had to rely on whatever fruits and berries they could forage until then. It seems crazy to me to try to extrapolate their lifestyle to our present day one...but I get the gist of what proponents of the paleo diet are trying to advocate.

Indeed, it is easy to criticize the reason for such a diet. If prmitive people lived to old age it's probably not so much diet as good genes +luck. But there have been studies that some foods are good for you and some are bad. It just so happens that most of the foods that taste good today are bad and did not exist back then.

 

[KCBarbarossa]

Based on pubmed and personal experience, I would say that diet has very little effect on your weight. It is proven that Dash diet leads to weight loss, but those #s that they quote are very modest compared to what I can get with exercise even if I eat at mcdonalds. But numerous studies show that good diet can prevent disease even if you have more bodyfat than someone who eats mcdonalds and exercises more than you.

As for thoughts on that diet, I think it has a lot in common with many other diets. Thats eating more fruits/vegetables. Somehow I do not expect people who frequent mcdonalds to also eat a couple of apples, avocados, oranges throughout the day. How about broccoli+fish for dinner? Because I think it is much easier to avoid mcdonalds(and replace it with some candy bars that you buy at a supermarket or in a restaurant) than it is to actually make fruits/vegetables a significant % of your daily calories. Some people think that if you eat low fat dairy products and oatmeal(the type that you boil over 10mins) then you're not on a diet. But I think that just means you are on paleolithic + some other diet that values oatmeal, dairy,etc.

I disagree. We all know that high carbohydrate intake causes large insulin surges. Insulin is a trophic hormone. We'll be seeing more literature supporting insulin being a major culprit in our obesity epidemic, but in the meantime we'll continue waiting for people to develop DM-II until we ask them to please limit the carbohydrate intake.

 

[KCBarbarossa]

Moderation is key. There is nothing wrong with skipping out on lots of processed foods and sugars. Lean protein, fruits, veggies, etc. are all very good for you. But the paleo diet takes it to an extreme that is unlikely to be beneficial. The followers of it claim that we evolved eating that kind of food for 10,000 years. But as already mentioned, we evolved living for 20 or 30 year lifespans. Cavemen didn't die of cancer or heart disease because they didn't live long enough to get those diseases, not because their diet protected them from it.

I'm not sure it can be called "extreme". Basically, I think the Mark Sisson or Rob Wolf approach is on target.

Sure, no grains or dairy is extreme to some. But, it leaves room for plenty of healthy meats, fats, veggies and fruit.

 

[countingdays]

A. Practically all evolution acts on the first 30-40 years of life, so it's not like our increased lifespans have changed our evolution.
B. Cavemen may not have lived long enough to get cancer, diabetes, and heart disease, but that doesn't mean that the paleo diet isn't better than the high carb modern diet regarding diabetes and heart disease. We can look at improvements in cholesterol levels, A1C, weight, etc. and judge the paleo diet's effect on longer-living modern people.

 

[DreamMachine]

 

[Mman]

A. Practically all evolution acts on the first 30-40 years of life, so it's not like our increased lifespans have changed our evolution.
B. Cavemen may not have lived long enough to get cancer, diabetes, and heart disease, but that doesn't mean that the paleo diet isn't better than the high carb modern diet regarding diabetes and heart disease. We can look at improvements in cholesterol levels, A1C, weight, etc. and judge the paleo diet's effect on longer-living modern people.

Nobody argued that the paleo diet was inferior regarding diabetes and heart disease. The point is that the fact people ate it for a long period of time and we "evolved" to eat that food is not evidence of it being better for diabetes and heart disease because those people didn't live long enough to get it in the first place. And as you point out, evolution doesn't really have anything to do with something like coronary disease because you've already had children before it becomes an issue.

The paleo diet isn't necessarily a bad thing. Lots of parts of it are good. Not eating lots of refined carbs and sugars is a good thing. But taken to the extreme it isn't any better than just eating a healthy well balanced diet.

 

[vector2]

The paleo diet isn't necessarily a bad thing. Lots of parts of it are good. Not eating lots of refined carbs and sugars is a good thing. But taken to the extreme it isn't any better than just eating a healthy well balanced diet.

What's a "healthy well balanced diet"? Are you going to point to the USDA food pyramid which for the last 20 years has been recommending 6-11 servings (300g carbs) /day of grains/starch as the cornerstone of the diet? A diet that limits saturated fat even though there's not really any correlation between saturated fat intake and heart disease? What are "balanced" macros for protein/fat/carb % of cals intake? 30/30/40? 30/15/55? 25/70/5?

The whole point of the discussion is that there's not really any normalized, ideal diet. We have limited pieces of hard data like trans fats or high intake of fructose being bad, but "healthy" and "well-balanced" are nothing but empty buzzwords made up by evidence-poor dieticians.

 

[deleted103644]

You will lose weight on any extreme diet.

If you restrict yourself to specific foods you don't like very much, you will lose weight. Simple as that.

These diets all end up being essentially calorie restriction diets.

Personally, I try to eat more protein because it fills me up faster per calorie than carbohydrates or fat.

I aim for a 30-30-40 ratio. (40 carbs)

 

[KCBarbarossa]

What's a "healthy well balanced diet"? Are you going to point to the USDA food pyramid which for the last 20 years has been recommending 6-11 servings (300g carbs) /day of grains/starch as the cornerstone of the diet? A diet that limits saturated fat even though there's not really any correlation between saturated fat intake and heart disease? What are "balanced" macros for protein/fat/carb % of cals intake? 30/30/40? 30/15/55? 25/70/5?

The whole point of the discussion is that there's not really any normalized, ideal diet. We have limited pieces of hard data like trans fats or high intake of fructose being bad, but "healthy" and "well-balanced" are nothing but empty buzzwords made up by evidence-poor dieticians.

I couldn't agree more. Notwithstanding a very educated audience we have on this forum, but the rest of the populace are "food-pyramiding" themselves into a life of obesity and diabetes.......

 

[ssmallz]

Look at most fitness websites/magazines and they advocate something close to a 40:40:20 mix of protein:carbs:fat and about 2000-2500 cals/day depending on your height and weight. Add a bit more if you exercise and you have a pretty solid foundation. You can get even more specific if you want to talk about how many meals to eat and types of proteins and carbs but I doubt anyone following that kind of a diet w/regular exercise would be overweight. The key to a diet is being able to stick with it in your daily life for the long haul, this means years, not months. Make it as much a part of your lifestyle as showering and going to work, then if you have a few bad days or go on vacation, you'll be ok

 

[fitnesstrainer]

The key to staying in shape isn't just what you eat. You have to exercise 3 or more times a week for at least a half hour, unless you have a medical condition.

 

[Mman]

What's a "healthy well balanced diet"? Are you going to point to the USDA food pyramid which for the last 20 years has been recommending 6-11 servings (300g carbs) /day of grains/starch as the cornerstone of the diet? A diet that limits saturated fat even though there's not really any correlation between saturated fat intake and heart disease? What are "balanced" macros for protein/fat/carb % of cals intake? 30/30/40? 30/15/55? 25/70/5?

The whole point of the discussion is that there's not really any normalized, ideal diet. We have limited pieces of hard data like trans fats or high intake of fructose being bad, but "healthy" and "well-balanced" are nothing but empty buzzwords made up by evidence-poor dieticians.

I'm not talking nitty gritty details. I'm talking big picture. Healthy. As in eat food that is generally regarded as good for you: Lean meats, proteins, fruits, veggies, nuts, whole grains, etc. Limit saturated fats and lots of processed sugars. Is there anyone that disagrees with that? Anybody? Well balanced as in different kinds of foods so that you get adequate nutrients in your diet. The Atkins diet isn't well balanced. Eat a variety of healthy food in moderation and you will be just fine.

It isn't rocket science.

 

[yappy]

Paleo would disagree with the bolded. They think that grains, fruits, and nuts are bad. Saturated fats are not.

I'm not talking nitty gritty details. I'm talking big picture. Healthy. As in eat food that is generally regarded as good for you: Lean meats, proteins, fruits, veggies, nuts, whole grains, etc. Limit saturated fats and lots of processed sugars. Is there anyone that disagrees with that? Anybody? Well balanced as in different kinds of foods so that you get adequate nutrients in your diet. The Atkins diet isn't well balanced. Eat a variety of healthy food in moderation and you will be just fine.

It isn't rocket science.

Though - like you I tend to think that what we eat doesn't matter as long as we stay within a reasonable calorie limit and dont eat too much junk/processed food. I have not even tried to diet in the past; but, by working out four times per week and eating reasonable food (no specific plan) I have maintained 7-9% body fat my whole adult life. I can run a decent mile and have some good numbers on the standard gym lifts. I honestly dont get what all the fuss is about - why some must resort to a philosophy like paleo to make sense of life and lose a little weight lol. In the end there are four macro-molecules - only three matter to diet. Just dont go crazy on the junk food and keep it simple.

 

[Mman]

Paleo would disagree with the bolded. They think that grains, fruits, and nuts are bad. Saturated fats are not.




Though - like you I tend to think that what we eat doesn't matter as long as we stay within a reasonable calorie limit and dont eat too much junk/processed food. I have not even tried to diet in the past; but, by working out four times per week and eating reasonable food (no specific plan) I have maintained 7-9% body fat my whole adult life. I can run a decent mile and have some good numbers on the standard gym lifts. I honestly dont get what all the fuss is about - why some must resort to a philosophy like paleo to make sense of life and lose a little weight lol. In the end there are four macro-molecules - only three matter to diet. Just dont go crazy on the junk food and keep it simple.

No, they eat whole grains, fruits, and nuts, albeit not in massive quantities.

 

[shopsteward]

Though - like you I tend to think that what we eat doesn't matter as long as we stay within a reasonable calorie limit and dont eat too much junk/processed food. I have not even tried to diet in the past; but, by working out four times per week and eating reasonable food (no specific plan) I have maintained 7-9% body fat my whole adult life. I can run a decent mile and have some good numbers on the standard gym lifts. I honestly dont get what all the fuss is about - why some must resort to a philosophy like paleo to make sense of life and lose a little weight lol. In the end there are four macro-molecules - only three matter to diet. Just dont go crazy on the junk food and keep it simple.

Sounds like you made it straight to the black runs without any instruction. Other people rely on ill-informed parents and get into bad habits as children, listen to so-called experts who haven't a clue, or just never learnt to understand their own bodies and what it best for them individually in the way of food and exercise to stay healthy. It's not surprising so many go off-piste and sooner or later end up in an avalanche of obesity and ill-health, when it's too late for a doctor to dig them out of it.

Not that I know what the solution is, mind.

 

[KCBarbarossa]

No, they eat whole grains, fruits, and nuts, albeit not in massive quantities.

Indeed. They also advocate modulating fruit (i.e. carb source) intake according to activity levels. Working out a lot? Have at it. Not so much? Then don't eat so many blueberries..... Pretty simple.

I don't see much extremism here. Though, I haven't looked at the actual research, I can say from personal experience that I do better avoiding grains and other sources of carbs.

Like others have said, you need to individualize. If you're 7-9% bodyfat and do just fine with your current regimine, well, it's pretty hard to argue those results.

However, Paleo aside, I wonder if a LARGE percentage of our society would benefit from some carb restriction given our obesity epidemic as well as, and ofcourse related to, our diabetes epidemic.

Not everyone is gonna be a PGG and stay lean/thin almost regardless. Surely we all know the sort, but when you look around and see nurses waddling back and forth while eating their "low fat" (i.e. high carb) cookies or eating "healthy" spaghetti, all the while getting bigger and bigger and more insulin resistant, perhaps this is telling us something?

Why is the medical community falling so deaf on these issues? Again, we're waiting for people to GET diabetes before we (mostly) start suggesting limiting their carb intake.
We're taking fatties to the OR for gastric bypass and THEN telling them that carbs may not be so great for them..... WTF? Doesn't this epitomize reactionary medicine?

Anything which stimulates insulin is probably not good for weight control. And, it's not calories in calories out. We "forget" that certain foods have different effects on our metabolism, particularly on insulin.

http://biocadmin.otago.ac.nz/fmi/xs...=BIOC2web.fp7&-lay=Lectures&-recid=5263&-find=

Glycolysis
the oxidation of glucose to pyruvate via glucose-6-phosphate with the formation of ATP. Pyruvate is further metabolised by conversion to acetyl-CoA and entry into the TCA cycle with the production of more ATP. Insulin stimulates this pathway by increasing cellular glucose uptake and through the induction of some key enzymes.

Glycogenesis
formation of glycogen from glucose, stimulated by insulin

Glycogenolysis
breakdown of glycogen to glucose-1-phosphate and thence to glucose-6-phosphate; stimulated by glucagon and adrenalin and inhibited by insulin. Liver contains the enzyme glucose-6-phosphatase which allows glucose to be formed. Muscle tissues do not contain this enzyme and therefore cannot produce glucose from endogenous glycogen stores.

Gluconeogenesis
formation of glucose from amino acids, lactate and triglyceride-derived glycerol. The conversion of amino acids to glucose is stimulated by cortisol and inhibited by insulin.

Lipogenesis
formation of triglycerides from glucose, stimulated by insulin.

Lipolysis
liberation of glycerol and fatty acids from triglycerides, and conversion of glycerol to glucose; lipolysis is suppressed by insulin, and stimulated by insulin deficiency, glucagon and adrenalin.








[FONT=arial, helvetica]Glucose storage .

[FONT=arial, helvetica]

.

[FONT=arial, helvetica]After a carbohydrate meal, the favoured metabolic pathways are glycogenesis and lipogenesis, leading to a increase in the storage of energy as glycogen and triglycerides. This is shown in the diagram above. .

[FONT=arial, helvetica]In the fasting state, glycolysis and lipolysis are favoured, making use of the stored fuels to provide energy for the tissues..

 

[DOC PENGUIN]

I couldn't agree more. Notwithstanding a very educated audience we have on this forum, but the rest of the populace are "food-pyramiding" themselves into a life of obesity and diabetes.......

Diet is very complex and one size does not fit all. I believe diet for one person could be determined through physical and mental history (ie: diabetes) or metabolic rating. However, you are the resident, so you know more than i do.

 

[KCBarbarossa]

Diet is very complex and one size does not fit all. I believe diet for one person could be determined through physical and mental history (ie: diabetes) or metabolic rating. However, you are the resident, so you know more than i do.

Ah.... Hmmmm.... Don't sell yourself short. Clearly the medical establishment should know more than most of us here, but they still advocate the traditional food pyramid which is IMHO way too high in carbohydrates. And we're seeing the consequences of that.

I agree that one size does not fit all, and that diet should be individualized. It's just that it seems apparent that lots more people could benefit from a low carb diet. At least LOWER carb diet.

 

[coyfish]

I have done a bodybuilding competition and trained clients as a hobby of mine. Let me tell you that people over-complicate the whole idea of a dieting so much. It confuses people and leads to so much wasted time and energy.

All that really matters is calories in vs calories out. If you go to a free online calculator and input your stats it will give you a caloric goal for the day and a breakdown of the macronutrients (protein/ carb / fats). It doesn't matter if your carbs come from french fries or brown rice in terms of weight loss. Obviously fries will have more fat and wont be good for your "health" but once again im talking strictly weight loss.

People are all different so you might have to lower or increase the % of carbs slightly until you find your best nutrient goal for the end of each day. Some people are more carb sensitive requiring less carbs.

 

[KCBarbarossa]

I have done a bodybuilding competition and trained clients as a hobby of mine. Let me tell you that people over-complicate the whole idea of a dieting so much. It confuses people and leads to so much wasted time and energy.

All that really matters is calories in vs calories out. If you go to a free online calculator and input your stats it will give you a caloric goal for the day and a breakdown of the macronutrients (protein/ carb / fats). It doesn't matter if your carbs come from french fries or brown rice in terms of weight loss. Obviously fries will have more fat and wont be good for your "health" but once again im talking strictly weight loss.

People are all different so you might have to lower or increase the % of carbs slightly until you find your best nutrient goal for the end of each day. Some people are more carb sensitive requiring less carbs.

I respect your accomplishments and experience. Like I said, for someone with a bodybuilder's physique it's hard to argue even if they advocate eating pizza for breakfast, lunch, and dinner (minus the cholesterol).

But, remember, we're dealing with the population at "large" (pun intended) here.

It's NOT as simple as calories in versus calories out. This is OVER simplifying things and negating the metabolic effects of certain macronutrients versus others. Underestimating the impact of food on INSULIN levels (and the consequences thereof) is what is causing a big part of the problem in our society I think.

 

[DOC PENGUIN]

Ah.... Hmmmm.... Don't sell yourself short. Clearly the medical establishment should know more than most of us here, but they still advocate the traditional food pyramid which is IMHO way too high in carbohydrates. And we're seeing the consequences of that.

I agree that one size does not fit all, and that diet should be individualized. It's just that it seems apparent that lots more people could benefit from a low carb diet. At least LOWER carb diet.

i hope you got my PM. According to some fitness enthusiasts (wolf and Sisson not included), people should eat by their metabolic rating while most are unique it could be linked to Fast, Balanced and slow. Something like this 1. Fast oxidizers

Your ideal macronutrient ratio is 20 percent carbs, 50 percent protein, 30 percent fat.


2. Slow oxidizers

Your ideal macronutrient ratio is 60 percent carbs, 25 percent protein, and 15 pertcent fat.


3. Balanced oxidizers

Your ideal macronutrient ratio is 40 percent carbs, 30 percent protein, and 30 percent fat.

I think this needs more investigation, but it is better than a "diet." My main beef about the paleo diet is that they are the biggest users of natural alternatives vs "the evil medical establishment" which make claims that could be accounted towards other things. Whiole i think most conventional wisdom is flawed, it isn't useless. I still think a plant based diet is good for the majority. We also tend to think life expectancy mostly come from diet. Yes, Diet and exercise is great for extending life but ewe have to remember that it comes from genetics and body chemistry. The Okinawa people live one of the longest lives, and eat little meat and lots of plants while the island (i forgot what was it called) in sardinia as well as crete eat a mediterranean diet. This issue has been simplified too much. I guess the best is a plant based balanced diet (with 25% unrefined carbs and 18% lean meats.)

 

[countingdays]

I have done a bodybuilding competition and trained clients as a hobby of mine. Let me tell you that people over-complicate the whole idea of a dieting so much. It confuses people and leads to so much wasted time and energy.

All that really matters is calories in vs calories out. If you go to a free online calculator and input your stats it will give you a caloric goal for the day and a breakdown of the macronutrients (protein/ carb / fats). It doesn't matter if your carbs come from french fries or brown rice in terms of weight loss. Obviously fries will have more fat and wont be good for your "health" but once again im talking strictly weight loss.

People are all different so you might have to lower or increase the % of carbs slightly until you find your best nutrient goal for the end of each day. Some people are more carb sensitive requiring less carbs.

Just saying a calorie is a calorie doesn't make it so.

 

[deleted103644]

Just saying a calorie is a calorie doesn't make it so.

You're right.

Physics, thermodynamics, and conservation of energy make it so.

 

[vector2]

CICO may be tautologically true but it's a relatively useless statement when trying to understand how different substrates are specifically metabolized at the cellular level, and how those substrates affect eating behavior and the hormonal milieu etc etc

 

[deleted103644]

CICO may be tautologically true but it's a relatively useless statement when trying to understand how different substrates are specifically metabolized at the cellular level, and how those substrates affect eating behavior and the hormonal milieu etc etc

Yes, but if you restrict your calorie intake below your BMR, whatever your food source you will lose weight.

So it really is that simple.

Hormones can affect whether you're losing muscle or fat (exercising while dieting and getting sufficient protein can prevent the former), and whether you are sated or looking to break your diet at every opportunity.

These are important for longterm maintenance an warrant further study, but the truth is almost anyone arguing for something specific at this point it pushing flimflam.

We simply don't know enough, and there's enough of a genetic component that any study that doesn't include genomic information is almost worthless.

 

[coyfish]

If you are eating with the guidelines I specified then you don't have to worry about insulin sensitivity. People get diabetes from downing hundreds of grams of sugary crap every day coupled with the obvious genetic component. That wont happen if you can only have 100 grams of carbs in a day.

I used to be a huge insulin diet advocate. I only ate high GI foods after a workout. Only low GI carbs like sweet potato and brown rice. Want to know a truth? Some protein like whey spikes insulin levels too!!!!!

Now I still eat clean carbs because the goal is still to be healthy inside and out.... but I am much less restricted. Just now I ate a doughnut my girlfriend bought me and I am in the middle of my summer cutting cycle. Will it hurt my progress? Not one bit because I know what nutrients my body needs by the end of the day. Lots of sugars and carbs in that doughnut which means I won't be having anymore carbs for the day aside from veggies.


People really try to make it so difficult but it doesn't have to be. Find how many calories a day you need to reach your goal and take it from there. Everyone is different so of course you will have to manipulate the %'s of protein / carb / fat you will need slightly. But that is a good place to start. Some people don't require as many carbs or calories as another but it is up to you to figure that out... not some diet.

I have lived it and trained other clients who reached their goals. Then I have tons of people who have never reached their goals preaching all of this diet crap and metabolism boosting "tips" / etc. It is the biggest roadblock for newcomers to reach their goals.

 

[MOUTHLOVER]

Personally I think the food pyramid is quite an "extreme" diet!

Personally I don't like naming or defining my diet. I believe in flexiterianism haha... Of all parts of the American diet, I believe that ALL dairy products (milk, cheese, yogurt, protein powder) MUST be avoided! That is the number one thing in my opinion.

When I was young I used to hate water and I would drink glasses of milk all day. I would also have some kind of meat for breakfast (sometimes) lunch and dinner. Since then I've started eating like a vegan (I didn't really want to but my mom forced me 🙂)and I'm so happy that I've done that. The change is incredible. From the research and by my own personal experience, I've concluded that we (or at least I) are not fit for consuming meat or dairy products. I guess, it also helps you sleep better at night knowing that you aren't causing the death of any animals, if that's what you care about...

Also, if you want to live longer maybe you should look at the Adventists. Many are vegan, most are vegetarian. They apparently live 10 years longer than the average American...

 

[KCBarbarossa]

CICO may be tautologically true but it's a relatively useless statement when trying to understand how different substrates are specifically metabolized at the cellular level, and how those substrates affect eating behavior and the hormonal milieu etc etc

Indeed. And what GypsySongman said.

In fact, I think that the traditional CICO paradigm towards "diet" has been a huge part of the problem. Insulin is a major culprit in our obesity epidemic, and to ignore the IMPACT of food on insulin secretion is erroneous.

 

[KCBarbarossa]

If you are eating with the guidelines I specified then you don't have to worry about insulin sensitivity. People get diabetes from downing hundreds of grams of sugary crap every day coupled with the obvious genetic component. That wont happen if you can only have 100 grams of carbs in a day.

I used to be a huge insulin diet advocate. I only ate high GI foods after a workout. Only low GI carbs like sweet potato and brown rice. Want to know a truth? Some protein like whey spikes insulin levels too!!!!!

Now I still eat clean carbs because the goal is still to be healthy inside and out.... but I am much less restricted. Just now I ate a doughnut my girlfriend bought me and I am in the middle of my summer cutting cycle. Will it hurt my progress? Not one bit because I know what nutrients my body needs by the end of the day. Lots of sugars and carbs in that doughnut which means I won't be having anymore carbs for the day aside from veggies.


People really try to make it so difficult but it doesn't have to be. Find how many calories a day you need to reach your goal and take it from there. Everyone is different so of course you will have to manipulate the %'s of protein / carb / fat you will need slightly. But that is a good place to start. Some people don't require as many carbs or calories as another but it is up to you to figure that out... not some diet.

I have lived it and trained other clients who reached their goals. Then I have tons of people who have never reached their goals preaching all of this diet crap and metabolism boosting "tips" / etc. It is the biggest roadblock for newcomers to reach their goals.

I'm not talking about insulin sensitivity which surely does develop down the road in many people who seem destined for diabetes.

I'm talking about the metabolic effects of insulin as a hormone.

You're a bodybuilder, so with respect, you can't simply apply YOUR diet and dietary experiences to the broader public whom mostly are not bodybuilders doing "cut cycles" ect. You are much more sophisticated than Joe Average who doesn't even read labels.....

Also, to use an analogy perhaps closer to home, do you think that IF a particular food would increase free Testosterone levels significantly, you'd persist with a calorie is just a calorie. I suspect not. I would wager, and especially if you're training for size (versus 100 min of cardio per day) that you would get bigger. Sure, more muscular, as we all know that the effects of Testosterone differ from those of Insulin, but you get the point.

Same # of calories but if your macronutrient produced increases in T from a baseline of, say700 to 1500, do you really think that the person eating a higher % of that nutrient would be the same size as someone who eats very little of a macronutrient which has marginal effects on Testosterone?

Perhaps not the best of all analogies but when it comes to DIET, ignoring what food does to INSULIN levels is a serious mistake given what we know about the effects of insulin. How about all of those prediabetic whom are insulin resistent (how much of the population do you think that might be? I think it's increasingly rather high), and thus HYPERINSULINEMIC? Those folks will have a VERY difficult time losing weight if they do not restrict carb intake. But, by then, Joe Average goes to the doctor and is told he now has DM-II.....

 

[coyfish]

I am not saying that foods don't effect metabolic / hormonal production rates or anything like that. What im saying is that it isn't nearly as influential as people seem to believe. As per your analogy there is no food that increases testosterone significantly. It is so easy to look at bodybuilders as freaks / or whatever but the truth is (whether they realize it or not) they manipulate their food choices to maximize muscle while staying lean. So many have focused on insulin manipulating diets and it has been proven that it doesn't effect the body nearly as much as people give it credit for.

It is almost like people want to make things more complicated just for another excuse. Focusing on caloric intake / macronutrient %'s will get 9/10 average people to their goals. I am not talking about diabetics or those with metabolic conditions. Obviously a generic diet is probably not the best option for people with an underlying condition.

I talk through my experience and those of my clients. It isn't MY DIET that i preach but the idea of counting calories / macro's. Everyone is different so you have to eventually find the best ratio for you but you can find a good starting place by identifying what type of metabolic category you fall nearest (endo / meso / ectomorph). I have heard so many times "oh I can't lose weight for this and that reason." I am so sensitive to carbs / etc. Then when I finally convince the client to take the initiative to track their calories / nutrients for a week ... it becomes obvious what they are doing wrong. I am not saying that one size fits all. I am saying that people need to take the initiative themselves rather than turning to commercialized diet plans preaching some new metabolism boosting study...