Paramedic - Good or Bad?

[Siggy]

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Is it helpful? Sure.

Is it helpful as much as most people on here are making it out to be? No! In fact, let's go back to the admissions counselor's view on this:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8647135&postcount=32

I'd definitely argue that it isn't valuable because of the psychomotor skills that are learned, which was what made up the vast, vast, vast majority of your post. Either that, or I'm mistaking your post for someone elses. Your post was the one that talked about pushing medications, writing reports, delivering babies, and intubating (oh my!), correct? Nothing about working with a team. Nothing about working with special patient populations. Nope, those aren't important (at least not important enough to list), what's important was that you got to intubate someone (which unless you go into anesthesiology or emergency medicine is unimportant anyways).

When I talked about my EMS experience during my interviews, I didn't mention taking blood pressures, starting patients on oxygen, or anything of the like. I talked about nursing homes, special patient populations (especially dealing with psychiatric patients), interacting with other patient care providers like physicians, nurses, and respiratory therapists. I doubt any of my interviewers cared that I've done CPR before.

 

[242563]

Is it helpful? Sure.

Is it helpful as much as most people on here are making it out to be? No! In fact, let's go back to the admissions counselor's view on this:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=8647135&postcount=32

I'd definitely argue that it isn't valuable because of the psychomotor skills that are learned, which was what made up the vast, vast, vast majority of your post. Either that, or I'm mistaking your post for someone elses. Your post was the one that talked about pushing medications, writing reports, delivering babies, and intubating (oh my!), correct? Nothing about working with a team. Nothing about working with special patient populations. Nope, those aren't important (at least not important enough to list), what's important was that you got to intubate someone (which unless you go into anesthesiology or emergency medicine is unimportant anyways).

When I talked about my EMS experience during my interviews, I didn't mention taking blood pressures, starting patients on oxygen, or anything of the like. I talked about nursing homes, special patient populations (especially dealing with psychiatric patients), interacting with other patient care providers like physicians, nurses, and respiratory therapists. I doubt any of my interviewers cared that I've done CPR before.

Although I did mention many skills, I flat-out said the best experience came from histories and assessments. Interviewing patients and forming a differential diagnosis is an art. Working with a team? Leading a code. Special patient populations? That goes without saying - it's EMS.

Furthermore, what one ADCOM says, another will say the opposite (not to mention she was referring to EMT's). For Paramedics on SDN, your clinical experience is an asset... one that 90% of pre-meds do not have.

 

[Siggy]

Although I did mention many skills, I flat-out said the best experience came from histories and assessments. Interviewing patients and forming a differential diagnosis is an art. Working with a team? Leading a code. Special patient populations? That goes without saying - it's EMS.

Furthermore, what one ADCOM says, another will say the opposite. For Paramedics on SDN, your clinical experience is an asset... one that 90% of pre-meds do not have.

90%[citation needed]?

The vast vast majority of medical students had some sort of clinical experience (source= Medical School Admission Requirements by the AAMC. As the EMS cliche goes, "If you didn't document it, it didn't happen." In interview speak, if you don't articulate it, it didn't happen.

As far as ad com members goes, if I had the choice of following the advice of 1 ad com member or 20 premeds all in agreement, I'd pick the ad com member's advice any day.

 

[242563]

90%[citation needed]?

The vast vast majority of medical students had some sort of clinical experience (source= Medical School Admission Requirements by the AAMC. As the EMS cliche goes, "If you didn't document it, it didn't happen." In interview speak, if you don't articulate it, it didn't happen.

As far as ad com members goes, if I had the choice of following the advice of 1 ad com member or 20 premeds all in agreement, I'd pick the ad com member's advice any day.

"Some sort of clinical experience" isn't what I was referring to. At all. Nor was the ADCOM referring to Paramedics.

 

[Siggy]

Considering that the majority of non-emergnecy department medical staff has no clue about the different levels of EMS, how much do you think that the average admissions committe member knows about the different levels? Consider further that the definitions of levels, as well as the levels available and what the levels are called, can vary drastically between states.

Do ad-com members know the difference between an EMT-Paramedic and an EMT-Critical Care in New York? After all, critical care sounds like it's a higher level than paramedic. How about a California EMT-I (roman numeral 1, aka EMT-B) and an EMT-I (intermediate)? What's the difference between an Iowa EMT-Paramedic (an EMT-I/99 everyplace else) and an Iowa Paramedic Specialist (EMT-Paramedic everyplace else)? An Oregon EMT-Paramedic and a Texas Licensed Paramedic (Texas has an EMT-P and a Licensed Paramedic level. LPs have a college degree. All paramedics in Oregon now have to have a college degree unless grandfathered in)? How are states like Washington that have 7 levels of providers above first responder (EMT, EMT-IV, EMT-airway, EMT-IV/airway, EMT-Intermediate Life Support, EMT-ILS/airway, paramedic) supposed to be handled?

I'd argue that in the eyes of most admissions committee members' eyes, an EMT is an EMT regardless of what letters (B, P, or something else) his or her name.

Furthermore, how are you able to judge the quality of 90% of the rest of the premeds have in terms of clinical experience. Being involved in EMS is hardly the end all, be all of clinical experience.

 

[thomyorke]

My advice to anyone here who is out of school and looking for a truly top notch clinical experience to boost a med school resume: AVOID EMT AT ALL COSTS. Tons of pre-meds do it and honestly, it's really not all that spectacular as far as Adcoms are concerned. This I know for a fact as my PI works with admissions at HMS.

My suggestion: Try to find a job as a Clinical Research Coordinator or Clinical Research Assistant at a reputable hospital where you work directly for MD's/PhD's. This is the best clinical experience you will get without a medical degree (without going through training for another medical profession) and you will make invaluable connections. Plus, it never hurts to have a few publications on your app.

I would also strongly suggest that you avoid trying to take some roundabout offshoot medical path, such as nursing, PT, etc. As someone already mentioned, most Adcoms see right through this and it can actually hurt your application status. IF YOU WANT TO BE A DOCTOR DON'T WASTE VALUABLE SPACE IN ANOTHER HEALTH PROFESSIONS PROGRAM.

 

[FIREitUP]

lots of hostility in this thread. i was a volunteer firefighter and became an EMT. I think that most of my valuable experiences came from just being a firefighter and helping on ambulance calls, but got the EMT license for the hell of it. Basically, my experience is unique from those who just ride around in an ambulance all day because of the nature of a volunteer organization--becoming a senior member and teaching others/mentoring parallels the experience of being a doctor. I would say volunteer in a type of volunteer organization that harbors a community in which you are able to collaborate with many different people and learn to better serve your community. For me, the actual act of being an EMT was not as significant as the whole volunteer firehouse experience. I think the basic conclusion is don't think you're becoming more of a doctor by performing spinal immobilization or ventilating a patient. It's the skills of working with others, teaching, learning, etc. that I think is the essence of what adcoms are looking for.

 

[Fedekz]

EDIT:

Wow, rib breaking = CPR. I am ******ed, sorry.

 

[MisterVeil]

Saying that we don't need education is a complete cop out and is the very essence of what is keeping EMS in the dark ages. Sorry, but we need the same education as everyone else. There's absolutely no reason why EMS needs to be taught watered down "A/P for EMS" style courses.

It's simply not relevant for most EMS work. Moreover, at least in my experience, most EMT-Bs and Is I knew weren't really cut out to handle the same education.

What I mean is, they were excellent EMTs and had a ton of experience; they knew a lot more about doing things in the field than I ever could. But they did not know about the basic sciences, they didn't know as much as I did about endocrinology, cardiovascular physiology (eg gas exchange and partial pressures at the capillaries), anatomy, and other things because of the coursework I'd had as a bio major. In my honest opinion, many of them simply wouldn't be able to handle that type and volume of information, education and coursework, nor should they need to; again, it's not relevant to what they have to do.

I'm not saying nobody in EMS should be educated. Many are; Among others, the EMT-Ps and EMT-Is with higher (MS, PhD) degrees in higher positions; MDs that work in emergency medicine; critical care nurses with higher degrees (MS, PhD, etc). These are the ones that perform research and analysis, set policies, make changes in existing protocols, suggest new techniques, etc. It's important that they be educated, obviously.

But for the bread and butter EMT, that stuff just doesn't matter.

 

[HotHamH2O]

Ten years ago, an EMT stood out (e.g. rather unusual) but not overly impressive. Today they are far more common. Same goes for running marathons and some other activites that have grown in "popularity".

What do doctors do all day (split between paperwork and patient work)? How long are those days? How do they think (make decisions about diagnostic tests, interprete those tests, make diagnosis, make treatment decisions, communicate with patients)? What are their worries and concerns about the future of the profession? That's the stuff you should be getting out of shadowing or other interaction with physicians. You don't get exposed to that information as an EMT.

You do if you are an EMT in the ED. Working as a tech along side an ED physician 36 hrs a week is what made me decide that I wanted to pursue med school. So it seems that it is more about how you have put your EMT to use and not actually about having the cert or not right?

 

[thelight]

i'ved worked as an EMT for a little while, to gain some clinical experience on my road to applying to med school. I find it quite odd that people say EMT work isn't really clinical experience considering it gives people the certification to take on a patient as their responsibility during transport. Granted people who work in the back of an ambulance haven't really gotten exposure to what doc's really do, I would be pretty upset knowing EMTs aren't considered to have a bit of stand out clinical exposure.....

on that note, in my year off, i plan to work as an ER tech to gain some more exposure, and I wanted to see peoples opinions on how much clinical exposure that is and to what extent it gives you an idea of a doctors responsibilities........