Paramedic school and undergrad?

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Dorian Gray
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Okay so I'm almost done with my EMT-B course and assuming nothing goes horribly wrong, I will get my license in May. I love medicine in any shape or form, and I have sort of gotten sidetracked this year which has put me behind [more to do with issues I have been going through this year and completely unrelated to my decision to go into EMS]. So I will most likely not graduate from undergrad for 3 more years. I am pre-med and absolutely want to go to medical school. I would also love to become a paramedic and be able to learn to do IVs and intubation and that fun stuff and get to experience 911 calls- I've heard EMT-Bs don't necesarrily get much of an opportunity for this, and when they do, they don't get to do much. Ultimately, I want to be a doctor, but that's obviously a while away. Would it be feasable to go to paramedic school and undergrad at the same time? Is it worth it to become a paramedic? Are there any other areas/career options/whatever which might be better options? Would my EMS career essentially stop once I entered med school, or might it be possible to continue to work part time? Is it possible that it could compromise my premed and/or med education more than help it? Answers to any or all questions welcome.. or any general related advice/your related experiences works too. :)

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First, I think everyone here would agree with me in recommending you work as an EMT-B for a MINIMUM of 6 months before starting the Paramedic program. The reason being that a Paramedic course assumes you know how to recognize and handle certain situations in the field. What they teach you in EMT class is hardly anything like what you will find in the field. Take some time and become acclimated to the EMT job first. If you work a good bit (ALS preferably) and are a fairly quick learner, I would say that you have a good chance of being good to start the Medic class. The reason I haven't started my Medic Class yet is I want a little more time in the field. By fall, I hope to be ready to start if I choose to.

Secondly, if you look in the Pre-Osteo forum you will see my thread dealing with the topic of pursuing my medic AND undergrad simultaneously. Check it out!

all the best,
dxu
 
Have you considered trying to get a job at a hospital? Lots of places will hire basics and medics interchangeably. It doesn't have the glamour of 911, but the whole adrenaline rush thing is overrated after a while. If you're working on a career in medicine, the ED or ICU will be a good environment. You'll see what's it's really like to be a physician, and you'll learn more about being a clinician rather than protocol-adhering technician. Plus, you'll have the added benefit of forming close relationships with those physicians that can mentor you during your undergrad years.
 
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Being a Premed who is also a paramedic, I often tell people this... If you want to be a DR go to med school, if you want to be a paramedic go to paramedic school. EMT is great experience and the school doesnt take up to much time. Medic school is a fulltime thing, if you are going to take classes I would only take one while you are going to medic school. I agree look into the ER"S and other Tech jobs with your EMT you should be able to get one of those jobs, which give you great clinical time...
 
Have you considered trying to get a job at a hospital? Lots of places will hire basics and medics interchangeably. It doesn't have the glamour of 911, but the whole adrenaline rush thing is overrated after a while. If you're working on a career in medicine, the ED or ICU will be a good environment. You'll see what's it's really like to be a physician, and you'll learn more about being a clinician rather than protocol-adhering technician. Plus, you'll have the added benefit of forming close relationships with those physicians that can mentor you during your undergrad years.

Being a Premed who is also a paramedic, I often tell people this... If you want to be a DR go to med school, if you want to be a paramedic go to paramedic school. EMT is great experience and the school doesnt take up to much time. Medic school is a fulltime thing, if you are going to take classes I would only take one while you are going to medic school. I agree look into the ER"S and other Tech jobs with your EMT you should be able to get one of those jobs, which give you great clinical time...


Both of these are great points!

First off, I'd say six months is WAY too little! You should probably have more like two years of experience as an EMT with AT LEAST six months of experience on a 911 ALS ambulance! Its not that you have to be familiar with BLS level EMS, it should really be second nature!

I think people really underestimate how good of an experience working in a clinical setting can be! I worked at the urgent care clinic at my undergrad university for a few years before I went to paramedic school. I gained some truely amazing experience here that I would never have gotten otherwise. Working in one of these settings gives you a better idea of what hospital/clinic based medicine is all about and how doctors work on a daily basis. Its true that as a basic you won't get to do many of the skills that paramedics do (intubation, medications, defib) but in all honesty, a trained monkey can do these! Working in the field or a clinical setting will help you develop clinical decision making skills, and if you can work with a good doctor/RN/paramedic/PA, etc they'll be more than willing to teach you how to develop these skills, which are the more important part.

Paramedic school is a HUGE commitment, and shouldn't be taked lightly. I would not recommed doing it along with anything else! I would say you should spend a few years as a basic, look into various clinical and pre-hospital experiences and try and get the most you can out of these. If, after all that, you still want to be a paramedic, and you want it for the right reasons (which is NOT trying to improve your application), then look into it then.

Nate.
 
I definitely would love to get experience in a clinical setting- it is ultimitely what I want to do. Would you suggest working in the field before trying to get a clinical job? I suppose I am a little anxious to jump in and would love to be able to learn to do as much as possible for the experience- I've heard a lot of anecdotes from med students and interns about how they felt they didn't know what they were doing and I would love to be comfortable with patients, hospital procedures, medical procedures, etc even before getting to medical school so that I can benefit more from what I'm learning and be less afraid to apply the new skills I will learn.. if that makes sense.
 
"Is it worth it to become a paramedic?"

I worked four years before going to paramedic school. I would not have gone then had the county not paid for the course. With the senority I had, it was a whopping $1 more an hour. In retrospect, I should have gone straight into undergrad. The time I speant in paramedic school set me back on getting into med school, and my solid EMT-B skills were the ones that helped me shine during my third year clerkships, not the cursury understanding of pharm and phys provided in paramedic school.

"Would it be feasable to go to paramedic school and undergrad at the same time?"

It is quite feasible to go to paramedic school and undergrad concomittantly. However, the time would be better spent using you EMT-B cert to build solid clinical skills on the job. Paramedic school is challenging, and undergrad can be. Don't put yourself through both unless you absolutely know you want to be a paramedic. It does not help your application sginificantly more to be an EMT-P over and EMT-I.

"Are there any other areas/career options/whatever which might be better options?"

That said, I feel there is no better career to prepare one for medicine than working as an EMT. You get to develop the "feel" for when patients are critically ill, you get to practice hands-on interventions that will serve you well with the more advanced procedures learned in med school, and more importantly you will learn whether you really want to deal with the emotioanl and mental exengencies ineveitable in medicine. You want to get both pre-hospital 911 and in-hospital patient care tech experiences. Both are very resonable expectations for someone with an EMT-B cert.

"Would my EMS career essentially stop once I entered med school, or might it be possible to continue to work part time?"

You can work on the squad while in med school. I worked 30-40 hours a week throughout the first two years. However, once you start your clinical year as an MS-II, your life outside school comes to a screeching halt. The time is simply not there. 12-15 hour days six days a week are the norm on the medicine and surgery rotations. The elvectives you get are there to study for boards.

"Is it possible that it could compromise my premed and/or med education more than help it?"

Yes, it is. The most important ability of a med student, and a physician, is the ability to properly prioritize. Make sure you have a supportive employer and a good work environment. I had the best director and the most understanding co-workers I could have ever asked for. When I needed to swap shifts, the seas parted. When I had an organo-chem test and needed to spend all my down time studying, my partner would wash the squad by himself. I always joke around with my old partner that he should get an honorary MD just for having had to work with me.
 
A compromise might be becoming an intermediate ('85) instead. The course is MUCH shorter than a medic and can be taken part time (or in as little as 2 weeks at some places).

The upside: you will learn some advanced procedures/pharma while not putting another few years between you and med school. You will likely have a leg up getting er tech jobs or getting on with 911 services (as opposed to applying as a basic).

The downside: you will NOT be a medic (obvious, no?). you will not be able to do a lot of the things medics can do (varies on where you work/who you work for). you will not gain nearly as thorough an understanding of physio/pharma/etc that a medic learns.

Bottom line: say what you will about the intermediate level...I think it's an ideal level for premeds who want to learn/do more without adding another year(s) before starting med school...and lord knows EMS should revolve around us premeds.
 
A compromise might be becoming an intermediate ('85) instead. The course is MUCH shorter than a medic and can be taken part time (or in as little as 2 weeks at some places).

The upside: you will learn some advanced procedures/pharma while not putting another few years between you and med school. You will likely have a leg up getting er tech jobs or getting on with 911 services (as opposed to applying as a basic).

The downside: you will NOT be a medic (obvious, no?). you will not be able to do a lot of the things medics can do (varies on where you work/who you work for). you will not gain nearly as thorough an understanding of physio/pharma/etc that a medic learns.

Bottom line: say what you will about the intermediate level...I think it's an ideal level for premeds who want to learn/do more without adding another year(s) before starting med school...and lord knows EMS should revolve around us premeds.

I would be careful with this advice. It all depends on WHERE you are! There are regions where intermediates are untilized to a huge extent and given a large amount of patient responsibilities, but there are also regions (usually the busy urban areas) where intermediates are only allowed to practice at a basic level because they are not paramedics. This is usually because there are enough paramedics in urban areas that the national standard of care dictates that you use paramedics who are TRUE ALS providers (this is not to say that intermediates do not take ACLS or run codes, but there IS a definate difference!) As for in hospital, most hospitals I know of don't differentiate between levels of EMT certification among their techs. When I was doing my clinicals for paramedic school there were paramedic techs in the ERs who were not even allowed to do the procedures I was doing...they could only do basic level skills...well plus start folleys...but they can have those! I would say that before you invest any time or money in an intermediate cert, you should check that your area even has JOBS for intermediates!

I definitely would love to get experience in a clinical setting- it is ultimitely what I want to do. Would you suggest working in the field before trying to get a clinical job? I suppose I am a little anxious to jump in and would love to be able to learn to do as much as possible for the experience- I've heard a lot of anecdotes from med students and interns about how they felt they didn't know what they were doing and I would love to be comfortable with patients, hospital procedures, medical procedures, etc even before getting to medical school so that I can benefit more from what I'm learning and be less afraid to apply the new skills I will learn.. if that makes sense.

Clinical experience is great, and in my opinon invaluable! The only problem is you have absolutely NO autonomy!! You do what the doctors and nurses tell you to do, and ONLY when they tell you to do it. Pre-hospital work allows you to develop your own clinical judgement and develop your own treatment plans. I think this is also valuable. You may want to look into experience in BOTH areas to truely get the most out of your EMT.

Nate.
 
I would be careful with this advice. It all depends on WHERE you are! There are regions where intermediates are untilized to a huge extent and given a large amount of patient responsibilities, but there are also regions (usually the busy urban areas) where intermediates are only allowed to practice at a basic level because they are not paramedics. This is usually because there are enough paramedics in urban areas that the national standard of care dictates that you use paramedics who are TRUE ALS providers (this is not to say that intermediates do not take ACLS or run codes, but there IS a definate difference!) As for in hospital, most hospitals I know of don't differentiate between levels of EMT certification among their techs. When I was doing my clinicals for paramedic school there were paramedic techs in the ERs who were not even allowed to do the procedures I was doing...they could only do basic level skills...well plus start folleys...but they can have those! I would say that before you invest any time or money in an intermediate cert, you should check that your area even has JOBS for intermediates!

I agree with all of this...WHERE you are, as I indicated earlier, makes all the difference (if there are no EMT-I jobs in your area there also won't be an intermediate program nearby). You should also know that some states don't recognize intermediates (and that the '85 might not exist 10 years from now). Some states however, like Maine (where I spent four years) give I's a huge amount of responsibility (and also NH, MN, NH, TX, and many others all to varying degrees). The bottom line is that you are NOT a medic and will NOT be the top dog in EMS (far from it). What you WILL be is more educated than a basic and you will be able to do more than them in many places.

Again, the intermediate is not for everybody. But for those EMT's who are trying to go to med school and want to gain some new skills (without adding years before med school), an EMT-I program might be right for you. The cost/time commitment is relatively minimal. And if med school doesn't work out you can always get your medic later.

Oh, and regarding er tech jobs: I didn't mean to imply that an EMT-I could DO more than a basic in an ER...I meant that on paper they would more likely get an interview for said position than a basic with comparable experience. Each hospital decides what their techs can do.
 
Do states still teach Intermediate-85? I thought they all changed over to Intermediate-99. With regards to differences between levels, it is highly variable by state (and often region within the state). Of course, my state also likes to make it's own EMS levels (Shock Trauma/Enhanced is similar to the Intermediate-85, and Cardiac Technician is Intermediate-99). Where I live (SW Virginia), there is functionally no difference between a paramedic and an Intermediate. About the only difference in protocol is whether or not we need to call the ED first before giving a handful of drugs in very few situations (like lidocaine for runs of v-tach, or mag for v-fib). Even the educational difference is minimal, as that extra year just seems to be extra clinicals (doing the exact same things as the first time), with nearly nothing new covered in lecture (just rehashing the previous year's lectures). Some of my friends who were in my Intermediate class continued on to finish Paramedic, and said they learned nothing new. When I started teaching at a paramedic program after my first year of med school (a different program, too), I also noted that they weren't being taught anything that I didn't learn in my Intermediate class. Of course, that doesn't stop agencies from making there be a huge pay difference between I's and P's (with a very small difference between B's and I's). Also, in this state, all ALS (Intermediate and Paramedic) are referred to as 'medics' as far as staffing/response is concerned.
 
Do states still teach Intermediate-85?

Yup. I just finished a course here in Minnesota. It's taught in a fair amount of other states as well (I had a list going but then deleted it cuz I'm an idiot). It's big in New England and the Southwest. However, most of the courses are enhanced/expanded from the original '85 curriculum to meet requirements for the state the class is taught in. That being said, if you plan on making EMS your career, I don't think it's a great idea to take the course. Save the time/money and get your medic. Personally, I'm shooting for med school and want to start as soon as possible--a full medic course just didn't make sense.
 
I would also love to become a paramedic and be able to learn to do IVs and intubation and that fun stuff and get to experience 911 calls

Ha ... oh how EMS sings its siren song. Don't buy into it. EMS is pretty much a dead end after a few years, all of the important interventions are done at the hospital. Sit back and dream about the days you'll be doing heart surgery and all the paramedics will be jealous.

Medical school is about sacrificing what you want now for later. This includes fun things like EMS.

Is it possible that it could compromise my premed and/or med education more than help it?

YES! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT!

It will more then likely delay your entry into medical school or ruin your chances of getting here. Med schools don't take average students, and with long hours of paramedic clinicals its hard not to be average.

Many of my friends had dreams of being in medical school and now are not in went the paramedic route. Let me think: Nikki (paramedic killed in VCU life evac helicopter crash), Andrew (full time intermediate), Jake (full time paramedic).

I myself probably delayed entry by a year or two because of my paramedic. Please learn from my mistake and focus on school not on the fun of EMS. You can always ride on the bus as a physician.
 
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Do states still teach Intermediate-85? .

Texas still uses it ... which is good I think ... at least being a paramedic still means something. I-99 is a shortcut to being a medic in my opinion. Paramedics are already undertrained for their job and I-99 just cuts that by a year.
 
all of the important interventions are done at the hospital.

That is an entirely false statement. The ABC's are the fundamentals that save lives, and EMT's are masters of those. Hospital's are great places with cool gadgets, but it is gold-standard airway management, IV therapy, and early defibrillation that saves lives. There is a reason why those first moments are called the platinum ten minutes. It is in those moments that lives are saved and EMT's shine.
 
I too agree EMS has its place but it will suck you in, it has probally delayed me sending out my app 1 or 2 years as well, and has brought down grades that could have other wise been higher. And if you plan on working as a Medic their shifts are long and trust me all nighters then class all day then repeat it starts to drag you down, I enjoy being a Medic but if you want to be a Dr then go to medical school if you want to be a Medic go to Medic school...
 
The ABC's are the fundamentals that save lives, and EMT's are masters of those.

Sorry dude, a person who takes a semester course isn't a master at anything.

Anesthesiologists are the masters of the ABC's.

I can count on 1 hand the number of lives I've saved in my 11 years in EMS. Depending on your specialty, 1 doctor saves more then that every day.
 
I too agree EMS has its place but it will suck you in, it has probally delayed me sending out my app 1 or 2 years as well, and has brought down grades that could have other wise been higher. And if you plan on working as a Medic their shifts are long and trust me all nighters then class all day then repeat it starts to drag you down, I enjoy being a Medic but if you want to be a Dr then go to medical school if you want to be a Medic go to Medic school...

Amen. I work night shifts thursday, friday, saturday, and every other sunday. Going to class during the day on friday and monday after getting ~1-3 hours sleep sucks the big one. Then on the weekends I usually end up sleeping all day and not getting any homework/studying done. During the week my sleep cycle is all screwed up; I am constantly tired and have difficulty focusing. After several months of this schedule I am burned out and am starting to just not care about school or work. Luckily I graduate in a week.:hardy:

Unless you have some other reason than getting to do the "fun stuff" (which quickly become un-fun), like need for money or a stable job to pay for college, I don't think there is any benefit in continuing into paramedic class.
 
Sorry dude, a person who takes a semester course isn't a master at anything.

Anesthesiologists are the masters of the ABC's.

I can count on 1 hand the number of lives I've saved in my 11 years in EMS. Depending on your specialty, 1 doctor saves more then that every day.

Sorry, 'dude'...doctors don't save lives singlehandedly either. The physician is one part of the team that takes care of people. Very few specialties actually perform that much 'hands on' care. EM and anesthesiology are a couple of outliers. Many docs assess the patient, write orders, and the orders magically get completed. I hesistate to say that anybody actually saves lives, it is always a myriad of circumstances that lead to the outcome. Anybody that takes credit for 'saving a life' is probably not giving credit to others that had a role. It's the Terrell Owens attitude.
 
Sorry dude, a person who takes a semester course isn't a master at anything.

Anesthesiologists are the masters of the ABC's.

I can count on 1 hand the number of lives I've saved in my 11 years in EMS. Depending on your specialty, 1 doctor saves more then that every day.

An EMT fresh out of school is just as dangerous as a similarly experienced physician. Academics are about as useful in an emergent situation as a tube of KY in a gun fight. It is the practice of intubating 100s of patients emergently, starting 1000s of IV's in the dark, and getting to the point where you can recognize VFib before the AED lights up that makes EMTs the best at basic trauma life support. Physicians do not intubate, start IVs, or run ACLS with anywhere near the frequency that EMTs do.

As for anesthesiologists being the master of ABC's, I cannot tell you how many times on surgery I had to go get the line or intubate the patient when the anesthesiologist couldn't. Half the time the anesthesiologist was not even in the hospital because their nurse CRNA was running all their cases for the day. Masters of the putting green maybe, masters of airway, IV access, and ACLS... uhm no.

As for emergent resuscitation, call Anesthesia? If we waited to get anesthesia down to intubate a patient we might as well order a pizza and settle in for a couple of hands of cards. Then when they did show up, it was a giant cluster. Those guys nut up worse than an NAACP vs KKK Jerry Springer episode in any real emergency. They are used to having a quiet, well-lit OR environment with plenty of help on hand, and a pre-oxygenated patient that they can dawdle around with for five minutes trying to get an airway in.

As for someone in EMS for 11 years with fewer than six saves, I have to ask, do you just drive the ambulance? Or maybe you only work inter-hospital gomer runs. I am not meaning to impugn your abilities here, but I can only imagine that you have had an entirely different pre-hospital experience than I did. Where I came from, Grady ED in Atlanta and then Memorial in Savannah, we averaged 26 calls in 24 hours my last year. The pre-hospital folks were THE go to guys and gals for the basic procedures that stabilized patients and saved lives. And yes, they were pretty damn good at it.
 
^^^:hijacked:

Everybody just whip 'em out and we'll measure.
 
An EMT fresh out of school is just as dangerous as a similarly experienced physician. Academics are about as useful in an emergent situation as a tube of KY in a gun fight. It is the practice of intubating 100s of patients emergently, starting 1000s of IV's in the dark, and getting to the point where you can recognize VFib before the AED lights up that makes EMTs the best at basic trauma life support. Physicians do not intubate, start IVs, or run ACLS with anywhere near the frequency that EMTs do.

As for anesthesiologists being the master of ABC's, I cannot tell you how many times on surgery I had to go get the line or intubate the patient when the anesthesiologist couldn't. Half the time the anesthesiologist was not even in the hospital because their nurse CRNA was running all their cases for the day. Masters of the putting green maybe, masters of airway, IV access, and ACLS... uhm no.

As for emergent resuscitation, call Anesthesia? If we waited to get anesthesia down to intubate a patient we might as well order a pizza and settle in for a couple of hands of cards. Then when they did show up, it was a giant cluster. Those guys nut up worse than an NAACP vs KKK Jerry Springer episode in any real emergency. They are used to having a quiet, well-lit OR environment with plenty of help on hand, and a pre-oxygenated patient that they can dawdle around with for five minutes trying to get an airway in.

As for someone in EMS for 11 years with fewer than six saves, I have to ask, do you just drive the ambulance? Or maybe you only work inter-hospital gomer runs. I am not meaning to impugn your abilities here, but I can only imagine that you have had an entirely different pre-hospital experience than I did. Where I came from, Grady ED in Atlanta and then Memorial in Savannah, we averaged 26 calls in 24 hours my last year. The pre-hospital folks were THE go to guys and gals for the basic procedures that stabilized patients and saved lives. And yes, they were pretty damn good at it.

Ok, we get it, you think you're a god. However, you must be one of those bizarre exceptions, since nationally, paramedics average one intubation every two years. So calling someone that goes months without even trying to 'tube a "master" of the airway is laughable. You do realize how many intubations a gas-passer does before they even get out of residency, right? So how is a physicians straight out of training as dangerous as a para-pup? I've seen more gross errors by paramedics and EMTs than I have ever seen on the physicians' end (though, this could be in part due to the fact that I have spent more time on the prehospital side of things). And what are you doing starting lines in the dark? The truck has lights on the inside for a reason.

Further, I find it more likely that many of your 'saved' lives are in fact just 'moved' lives, as that's more of what EMS does (or prolong their miserable existence). How many of your code patients actually walk out of the hospital? Return of circulation does not equal save. Stabilizing a massively bleeding wound in the field is a save...but only in as much as you kept him alive long enough for the surgeon to actually fix him and truly save his life. EMTs and medics are great for what we do in the field, but don't ever become so deluded as to think that you are superior to the physicians and specialists in the hospital.


Edit: I realized that some of the stuff at the end of my post was more antagonistic than I intended. I have removed those lines so as not to start a flame war. Just remember that for every one super-medic, there are of bunch of us regular medics. I've only been in this business for about six years, got more tubes in one shift with an anesthesiologist than I did in the previous year in the field, and can only count a few times where anything I've done in the field truly made a lasting difference (aka, was an improvement over Joe EMT-B just scooping and hauling). After working a code this morning, I'm down to about 40% of my codes having a pulse when I arrive at the ED, and none have ever walked out of the hospital. The only "saves" I might be able to claim credit for were a handful of diabetics (and maybe an asthmatic here or there), saved by good BLS skills, or by recognizing a major problem and insisting on rapid transport (had a patient last weekend having "the big one" and her husband thought it was just pneumonia). Everything else really is just moving lives.
 
I hesistate to say that anybody actually saves lives, it is always a myriad of circumstances that lead to the outcome. Anybody that takes credit for 'saving a life' is probably not giving credit to others that had a role.

That is almost certainly true canjosh and well said, I hope that as a physician I will have a greater impact on the outcome then as a paramedic.

My opinion is that surgically repairing an acute abdomen to stop bleeding is a more important intervention then driving them to the hospital ... although neither could probably exist without the other.

As for someone in EMS for 11 years with fewer than six saves, I have to ask, do you just drive the ambulance? Or maybe you only work inter-hospital gomer runs. I am not meaning to impugn your abilities here, but I can only imagine that you have had an entirely different pre-hospital experience than I did.

I've worked everywhere from Urban EMS with 13 calls a shift to rural with 1 call a day and 2 hour transport time. 95% of my experience is 911.

I'd say that 90% of the patients could have walked to the hospital rather then call 911. 5% would be helpful to have a paramedic to perform some intervention (albuterol, D50), 5% need a doctor but could not make it to hospital without the ride due to health reasons.

I don't count resuscitating granny who has been on the floor 30 minutes a save. I haven't counted the diabetics, yes they probably would have died with out sugar. I've had 2 people arrest in front of me in 11 years and I shocked them out of VF. Couple of asmatics that would have died, a few CHFers that would have died. Then again, I probably have screwed up and killed just as many people.

I think your point is well taken though, I am not giving EMS enough credit.

Part of the reason I went to med school was because I wanted to make more of a difference in outcome ... and I hope being a physician will allow that to happen ... if I gave up these years learning all this BS for nothing, I'll be pissed.

psychbender, I love the "saved" versus "moved" lives. LMAO because its so true.
 
Ok, we get it, you think you're a god. However, you must be one of those bizarre exceptions, since nationally, paramedics average one intubation every two years. So calling someone that goes months without even trying to 'tube a "master" of the airway is laughable. You do realize how many intubations a gas-passer does before they even get out of residency, right? So how is a physicians straight out of training as dangerous as a para-pup? I've seen more gross errors by paramedics and EMTs than I have ever seen on the physicians' end (though, this could be in part due to the fact that I have spent more time on the prehospital side of things).

I'm curious, where did you find this statistic? I'm not saying its wrong, as there is significant variance in EMS systems across the country, but I DO have a hard time believing it. I've worked in a number of systems and had far more than that. The system I work in now is hardly what I'd call busy, I'd say we average 6-10 call in 24 hours. One co-worker had two tubes last week in one shift. Another had over 16 tubes last year (I only had 4, which is a rather low number for my company, but one was a surgical cric!)! Now a part of this may be due to the fact that we have RSI as a tool, and that is not a common thing in EMS (lets try to not get into an arguement about whether paramedics should have RSI or not, suffice to say that our company takes training and maintaining our skills VERY seriously, and to my knowledge, we have NEVER had a miss-placed tube go unnoticed). That said, I certainly wouldn't presume to say that any of us are better than an anesthesiologist, but I do think (and many of the anethesiologists I've done OR rotations with agree) that paramedics are far better at intubating under adverse conditions! Most gas-docs have NEVER intubated a patient who is still in a car seat through the busted out windshield, or on the cramped floor of the back room in a single-wide trailer. I'd consider this more of a "trick" though...and frankly you can teach a monkey to preform a procedure...its knowing when and why to preform it that makes you special!

Nate.
 
I'm curious, where did you find this statistic? I'm not saying its wrong, as there is significant variance in EMS systems across the country, but I DO have a hard time believing it. I've worked in a number of systems and had far more than that. The system I work in now is hardly what I'd call busy, I'd say we average 6-10 call in 24 hours. One co-worker had two tubes last week in one shift. Another had over 16 tubes last year (I only had 4, which is a rather low number for my company, but one was a surgical cric!)! Now a part of this may be due to the fact that we have RSI as a tool, and that is not a common thing in EMS (lets try to not get into an arguement about whether paramedics should have RSI or not, suffice to say that our company takes training and maintaining our skills VERY seriously, and to my knowledge, we have NEVER had a miss-placed tube go unnoticed). That said, I certainly wouldn't presume to say that any of us are better than an anesthesiologist, but I do think (and many of the anethesiologists I've done OR rotations with agree) that paramedics are far better at intubating under adverse conditions! Most gas-docs have NEVER intubated a patient who is still in a car seat through the busted out windshield, or on the cramped floor of the back room in a single-wide trailer. I'd consider this more of a "trick" though...and frankly you can teach a monkey to preform a procedure...its knowing when and why to preform it that makes you special!

Nate.

It was from one of the airway management courses I took this year at my state's EMS Symposium. I, too, thought the statistic was low, but I think I remember actually seeing his sources for that presentation. I'll see if I can dig them up. One thing you have to remember is that there are a lot of rural departments, volunteer departments, and transport companies that don't get a lot of practice with advanced procedures. My current squad is a relatively rural volunteer department with over 30 ALS and about 2600 calls per year. Anything requiring intubation is rather rare as is, but when you figure you spread those calls amongst all the ALS providers, the average intubation rate per provider drops. And this isn't all that abnormal for volunteer departments in my state (minus the number of ALS). Throw in all the transport companies we've got running around, with medics that solely run there, and the average is pulled even further. Also, consider some areas where field ET intubation was almost entirely pulled from the protocols (in favor of CPAP or devices such as the King LT). Our medical directors here also require multiple methods of varifying tube placement, that I don't think I've ever seen a case here of one of our medics incorrectly placing the tube at hospital arrival--though there was one case of an improperly secured tube coming loose in a neighboring agency. Prehospital failure rate of ET intubation is fairly low, I believe, the issue is that a lot of providers don't get to do it very often, which can lead to other complications (taking longer, multiple attempts, airway trauma, etc). Additionally, there have been a number of papers published in recent years calling the efficacy of prehospital intubation into question. There was an interesting meta-analysis in the Annals of Emergency Medicine last year about this topic.

Here's the meta-analysis:
Out-of-Hospital Endotracheal Intubation: Where Are We?
Wang HE, Yealy DM
Annals of Emergency Medicine
June 2006 (Vol. 47, Issue 6, Pages 532-541)

Regarding intubating under adverse conditions, that is most certainly true, as we're about the only ones that do it. You are also correct that this is a "trick" and anyone that has acheived sufficient proficiency with intubation could be taught this relatively easily.
 
^^^:hijacked:

Everybody just whip 'em out and we'll measure.

My thoughts exactly.

If I had to be tubed, I would want the following people (in rank order), to do it:

1) God.
2) Someone else.
 
An EMT fresh out of school is just as dangerous as a similarly experienced physician. Academics are about as useful in an emergent situation as a tube of KY in a gun fight. It is the practice of intubating 100s of patients emergently, starting 1000s of IV's in the dark, and getting to the point where you can recognize VFib before the AED lights up that makes EMTs the best at basic trauma life support. Physicians do not intubate, start IVs, or run ACLS with anywhere near the frequency that EMTs do.

As for anesthesiologists being the master of ABC's, I cannot tell you how many times on surgery I had to go get the line or intubate the patient when the anesthesiologist couldn't. Half the time the anesthesiologist was not even in the hospital because their nurse CRNA was running all their cases for the day. Masters of the putting green maybe, masters of airway, IV access, and ACLS... uhm no.

As for emergent resuscitation, call Anesthesia? If we waited to get anesthesia down to intubate a patient we might as well order a pizza and settle in for a couple of hands of cards. Then when they did show up, it was a giant cluster. Those guys nut up worse than an NAACP vs KKK Jerry Springer episode in any real emergency. They are used to having a quiet, well-lit OR environment with plenty of help on hand, and a pre-oxygenated patient that they can dawdle around with for five minutes trying to get an airway in.

As for someone in EMS for 11 years with fewer than six saves, I have to ask, do you just drive the ambulance? Or maybe you only work inter-hospital gomer runs. I am not meaning to impugn your abilities here, but I can only imagine that you have had an entirely different pre-hospital experience than I did. Where I came from, Grady ED in Atlanta and then Memorial in Savannah, we averaged 26 calls in 24 hours my last year. The pre-hospital folks were THE go to guys and gals for the basic procedures that stabilized patients and saved lives. And yes, they were pretty damn good at it.

I have to say I disagree with the general sentiment in the first paragraph. Anesthesiologists ARE airway and resuscitation experts. More of them should be involved in EMS education, IMO.
I'm thinking your bad experience with anesthesia was at a teaching hospital, where you might have had off-service residents covering anesthesia. In other words, a future family practitioner or internal medicine doc was responding to the codes for 'anesthesia'.
Private practice anesthesiologists, or actual anesthesia residents are probably 100x more expert at basic and advanced airway than a comparably experienced paramedic (and I'm a paramedic). They do them all day/every day, many on stable patients, some not so stable. They seem to have a good IN-DEPTH understanding of ACLS. In other words, they know the 'why' behind the drugs (remember they're pharmaceutical experts, too).
I'm a paramedic, and I think I'm a pretty good one...but I'm not afraid to give credit where credit is due.
If I'm in trouble give me an Emergency Medicine Physician, an anesthesiologist, and a couple of medics. Keep the nurse in the corner doing paperwork. :laugh:
 
Keep the nurse in the corner doing paperwork. :laugh:

Yay! Nurse bashing! I think this is one topic all of us medics can agree on!

(just kidding everyone!)

:laugh:

BTW ... this thread has truly been hijacked.

:hijacked:
 
Yay! Nurse bashing! I think this is one topic all of us medics can agree on!

(just kidding everyone!)

:laugh:

BTW ... this thread has truly been hijacked.

:hijacked:


I'm especially qualified to nurse bash--I'm married to one.
 
Um . . . yeah . . . anybody mind if I say something about the thread topic? OK, here goes:

I do not think either the EMT-B or the EMT-P are good choices for pre-meds looking to buff their applications. People who got into it thinking it would be their career, and switched, have some good experiences/skills. But that doesn't mean a freshly mailed cert is your ticket to those same experiences/skills. It takes too damn long to get to the places in EMS where the action is for it to make sense for a premed.

Having said that, if you work, I'd suggest the field over the hospital. The hospital positions -- in my part of the country, at least -- tend to be very menial, with minimal responsibility. Whereas in the field, you get experience with taking responsibility for a patient's care, meaning establishing a relationship, taking a good history, making clinical decisions that count. That experience is hard to come by, pre-MD (personally, I think the people skills, assessment skills, and experience in clinical decision making are what really make the medic-to-MD road smoother. Intubations skills, IV skills, monitor skills -- you can learn those as you need them. But the things that come with being the primary -- the alpha and omega, if only for that ten minute transport -- that's priceless.)

But, again, I had to spend a lot of time pushing wheelchairs around before that fun stuff happened! Don't do anything that would hurt you in the admissions process. There is no training like doctor training, because the whole system is devoted to your training.
 
Look into getting hired for a transport service. It's not that exciting, but if you are interested in medicine (which you are) then it should and could be a great experience. look into my thread on another forum here

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=4515&highlight=transport+service

VentMedic made some great points. I disagree that EMT is a bad choice for pre-med students. You get much more patient contact (actually useful stuff) then you would looking over an MD's shoulder or changing diapers as a CNA.
 
whats all this nonsense im hearing??????? ;)

RTs are the masters of the airway!!!!!!! :D :D :laugh: :laugh:

im lovin this thread
 
An EMT fresh out of school is just as dangerous as a similarly experienced physician. Academics are about as useful in an emergent situation as a tube of KY in a gun fight. It is the practice of intubating 100s of patients emergently, starting 1000s of IV's in the dark, and getting to the point where you can recognize VFib before the AED lights up that makes EMTs the best at basic trauma life support. Physicians do not intubate, start IVs, or run ACLS with anywhere near the frequency that EMTs do.

As for anesthesiologists being the master of ABC's, I cannot tell you how many times on surgery I had to go get the line or intubate the patient when the anesthesiologist couldn't. Half the time the anesthesiologist was not even in the hospital because their nurse CRNA was running all their cases for the day. Masters of the putting green maybe, masters of airway, IV access, and ACLS... uhm no.

As for emergent resuscitation, call Anesthesia? If we waited to get anesthesia down to intubate a patient we might as well order a pizza and settle in for a couple of hands of cards. Then when they did show up, it was a giant cluster. Those guys nut up worse than an NAACP vs KKK Jerry Springer episode in any real emergency. They are used to having a quiet, well-lit OR environment with plenty of help on hand, and a pre-oxygenated patient that they can dawdle around with for five minutes trying to get an airway in.

As for someone in EMS for 11 years with fewer than six saves, I have to ask, do you just drive the ambulance? Or maybe you only work inter-hospital gomer runs. I am not meaning to impugn your abilities here, but I can only imagine that you have had an entirely different pre-hospital experience than I did. Where I came from, Grady ED in Atlanta and then Memorial in Savannah, we averaged 26 calls in 24 hours my last year. The pre-hospital folks were THE go to guys and gals for the basic procedures that stabilized patients and saved lives. And yes, they were pretty damn good at it.

This post is a joke and the author is clearly a loser, not even worth a counter-argument.
 
I'd say that 90% of the patients could have walked to the hospital rather then call 911. 5% would be helpful to have a paramedic to perform some intervention (albuterol, D50), 5% need a doctor but could not make it to hospital without the ride due to health reasons.


Part of the reason I went to med school was because I wanted to make more of a difference in outcome ... and I hope being a physician will allow that to happen ... if I gave up these years learning all this BS for nothing, I'll be pissed.

I got a master's degree while I was in paramedic school. Medic school was just something I'd wanted to do for a long time, and I was a bit turned off by my post-graduate studies. So I came from a little different background than a lot of the other students in my classes. Being 30, I think a little more life experience helped me with the patient care aspects of being a paramedic. It's easier to see people as people and not as a problem to be solved.

Unfortunately, I run into the "What's really going on with this patient?" quite a bit. And the reality is that I just don't have the education to understand the bigger picture. There's many times when presented with a patient that I really want to do a lot more than the O2, IV, monitor, SAMPLE, OPQRST. But that's the extent of what I'm equipped to do with someone not presenting with an acute, going to crap out on my in the next 25 minutes unless I do something, condition.

The bulk of this thread has focused on the Who is Better at This and That. I never make any apologies for EMS. I work for a very famous, high volume urban system. I'm blessed to work side by side with some of the best paramedics in the world. But even in this group, there are a lot of horrible medics.

The thing is, prehospital care needs to undergo a paradigm shift. Most older, experienced medics have it figured out, if they don't burn out from the working conditions, the hours, or the stress. It's not about "saving lives." Never has been really. Unfortunately, that's the public perception. I ran 50 911 calls in the past 7 shifts. One was a full on code, and the outcome for that is almost always a foregone conclusion. 48 of them were people that could have taken a cab to the hospital for less money, but being homeless or indigent, didn't have the means. I'm a cab driver most days. In a nation with horrible access to health care for the poor, I am the revolving door, the doorman, and the bellhop for the beat down and the poor. And the one call was a refusal, but it was the most satisfying call of them all because it really felt like I gave someone hope.

What being a paramedic is about for me is making people comfortable. It's advocating for my patients when they go to triage instead of getting a room if I think they need it. It's about reporting elderly or child abuse when I see a home where the floor is literally crawling with a million roaches.

It's about waiting 20 minutes on scene with a elderly woman to gather up her purse, hair curlers, packing a suitcase, and making sure the cats have enough food before she goes to the hospital.

It's about spending a half an hour with a woman who has recurrent panic attacks but doesn't yet recognize the precipitating factors or the early signs, and giving her some advice on what to do next time.

It's about reassurance. It's about bringing a calm to an emergency. That's what I love about it. Every day, people have "emergencies" that pale in comparison to what is a Real emergency. But if I can arrive with a calm head, and suppress my own fears and insecurities (which are always palpable), I can help more people than any psychomotor skill ever will.

I love my job. Nurses have better job security, more pay, and safer work environments. Physicians have more respect and magnitudes greater autonomy, but right now, I'd not trade my job for anything.

Unfortunately, I like to fix things. I like to know what's going on. And as a medic, I just don't have the education or the tools to do that for many cases.

That leaves me two options: get upset that I have to call for orders for interventions that are clearly warranted, but for which I am still required to call, get disgusted and quit caring, and just do the O2, IV, Monitor, transport because that's all I'm equipped to do. OR, take advantage of the unique situation I'm in and do what doesn't cost me or them a penny: care and listen. Every shift, between 6 and 12 times per 12 hours, I am invited into the most intimate situations in people's lives. I see their homes, smell their food, see their depravity, and muddy their carpet with my boots and bags.

There's something wholesome and raw about seeing people in the very situations that caused them the insult and injury they're seeking care for. It's rarely pretty to open a car door on a trauma patient and have a crack pipe and .22 shell casing fall on your feet. But it sure tells one hell of a story.

That's what I'm in it for. The story. I get lied to by about 75% of the patients I transport. "No boss. I didn't do any PCP. I don't touch the stuff." "Dude! I was just walking along this street, minding my own business, when I got stabbed." But everyone has a story and I'm glad to be the one to hear it, fiction or not.

I might not save any lives, and I really don't care if I do. But if I can make someone with a broken hip pain free, if I can lessen the likelihood that a patient with an acute asthma attack will be admitted to the hospital, and especially if I can give someone a sense of hope that things will be better, I feel like I've done something important.

About a year ago, I was reading a journal article that was discussing the direction EMS should go, one of the more memorable lines was something like this, To think that 15 minutes of care in the prehospital environment will make a significant difference in patient outcomes is foolish.

That's a hard pill to swallow. But if I don't admit that it's true, I'll be stuck focusing on the minutia and forgetting the other fact about EMS: the prehospital provider spends, in minutes, more time with a patient than an emergency medicine physician. That's an opportunity. A hell of a time to talk about teachable moments, a hell of a time to just Listen. Which in the end, is what most people want anyway -- to be respected and heard.

On the subject of the actual subject, I worked with a few people who'd made the bridge from EMT-P to either MD or DO. All in emergency medicine. They all were very good medics, and it was always very interesting to hear them relate their experiences in the prehospital setting to their work in the ED.

One thing that goes unrecognized is that working in emergency medicine as a physician, you'll be dealing with a lot of EMTs and paramedics. They'll be calling you for orders, advice, suggestions, and help. If for no other reason, having that first hand experience will give you a chance to impart useful knowledge for those paramedics, and you'll understand the limitations of EMS better than many people. Hell, you might even have the opportunity to work as a medical director or improve prehospital protocols.

But as someone who works as a paramedic, I don't think I have any special knowledge or skills that would make me a better physician that someone who isn't. They're quite a bit different, and the year I spent in medic school would have been better spent doing pre-med work if my immediate goal was to work as a physician.
 
This post above is so incredibly true. It applies to all EMT's. My teacher said things like: "As an EMT, you will see starving children and starving mothers. Make a difference," she said. "Bring them some groceries when you are off duty." I have been blessed with such a good teacher. By far some of the most influential words I, and my classmates, will ever hear. This is just a taste of the great things I have heard, and the above poster is reminiscent of my teacher's insight.

I feel as physicians and nurses you really miss this aspect of care, which is why EMS is such a rewarding, yet stressful career. Physicians have an incredibly rewarding job too, but there is something particularly special about being with a person in a time of crisis nearly every single day that is almost unique to EMS.
 
This is one of the annoying parts of medical care. Everyone is always dogging on everyone else.

Everyone has their specialties. Throw a doc in the ditch and they'll probably be lost. Throw a paramedic into the OR and they'll probably be lost. Nobody is more important than the other with very few exceptions. Academic knowledge can't replace experience and visa versa.

Anyone who thinks that if it weren't for them, and only them, lives would be lost has their head so inflated they won't be able to walk into the exam room or get in the truck to save all these lives. :rolleyes:

Back to the topic.

Would it be feasable to go to paramedic school and undergrad at the same time? Is it worth it to become a paramedic? Are there any other areas/career options/whatever which might be better options? Would my EMS career essentially stop once I entered med school, or might it be possible to continue to work part time? Is it possible that it could compromise my premed and/or med education more than help it? Answers to any or all questions welcome.. or any general related advice/your related experiences works too. :)

I think it would be difficult to do paramedic school and undergrad at the same time. Paramedic schools is generally a 15-17 hr course load. You have your clinicals to do as well.
Check in your area to see what competition is. It won't be worth becoming a paramedic if you can't find a job.
A PCT is used widely around the hospital which, if you're wanting to go to med school, would get you a bigger chance of getting to know some docs. We use more PCT's than EMT's in our ER. As far as EMS and med school, who knows. It depends on how much time you need to put into med school.

Going into EMS is less about med school and more about a personal decision. I did it because I wanted to see if I can keep my head in chaos. I also think that, as someone who wants to be a physician, it's good to know what situations your patient may have come from and what it's like to be at the bottom of the knowledge tier. I've been griped at by ER docs because they can pick apart a packaged patient, but if they saw what they came from, they'd realize they were lucky their patient is still workable (thankfully, our med director was there to straighten some docs).
Granted, my position in the ER isn't one with clout, but when receiving patients where something wasn't done right, I understand. Since I work so closely with the docs, they may grumbled about it and I can offer my perspective and have gotten the, "I didn't think about that," from one or two so far.

I also wanted to be in it to help others. If it's for any other reason than to help people, you'll quickly become just another bitter EMS worker.
My EMS experience after getting certified is all volunteer. I've never been paid for it. I guess it's kept it from being a job.
 
I got a master's degree while I was in paramedic school. Medic school was just something I'd wanted to do for a long time, and I was a bit turned off by my post-graduate studies. So I came from a little different background than a lot of the other students in my classes. Being 30, I think a little more life experience helped me with the patient care aspects of being a paramedic. It's easier to see people as people and not as a problem to be solved.

Unfortunately, I run into the "What's really going on with this patient?" quite a bit. And the reality is that I just don't have the education to understand the bigger picture. There's many times when presented with a patient that I really want to do a lot more than the O2, IV, monitor, SAMPLE, OPQRST. But that's the extent of what I'm equipped to do with someone not presenting with an acute, going to crap out on my in the next 25 minutes unless I do something, condition.

The bulk of this thread has focused on the Who is Better at This and That. I never make any apologies for EMS. I work for a very famous, high volume urban system. I'm blessed to work side by side with some of the best paramedics in the world. But even in this group, there are a lot of horrible medics.

The thing is, prehospital care needs to undergo a paradigm shift. Most older, experienced medics have it figured out, if they don't burn out from the working conditions, the hours, or the stress. It's not about "saving lives." Never has been really. Unfortunately, that's the public perception. I ran 50 911 calls in the past 7 shifts. One was a full on code, and the outcome for that is almost always a foregone conclusion. 48 of them were people that could have taken a cab to the hospital for less money, but being homeless or indigent, didn't have the means. I'm a cab driver most days. In a nation with horrible access to health care for the poor, I am the revolving door, the doorman, and the bellhop for the beat down and the poor. And the one call was a refusal, but it was the most satisfying call of them all because it really felt like I gave someone hope.

What being a paramedic is about for me is making people comfortable. It's advocating for my patients when they go to triage instead of getting a room if I think they need it. It's about reporting elderly or child abuse when I see a home where the floor is literally crawling with a million roaches.

It's about waiting 20 minutes on scene with a elderly woman to gather up her purse, hair curlers, packing a suitcase, and making sure the cats have enough food before she goes to the hospital.

It's about spending a half an hour with a woman who has recurrent panic attacks but doesn't yet recognize the precipitating factors or the early signs, and giving her some advice on what to do next time.

It's about reassurance. It's about bringing a calm to an emergency. That's what I love about it. Every day, people have "emergencies" that pale in comparison to what is a Real emergency. But if I can arrive with a calm head, and suppress my own fears and insecurities (which are always palpable), I can help more people than any psychomotor skill ever will.

I love my job. Nurses have better job security, more pay, and safer work environments. Physicians have more respect and magnitudes greater autonomy, but right now, I'd not trade my job for anything.

Unfortunately, I like to fix things. I like to know what's going on. And as a medic, I just don't have the education or the tools to do that for many cases.

That leaves me two options: get upset that I have to call for orders for interventions that are clearly warranted, but for which I am still required to call, get disgusted and quit caring, and just do the O2, IV, Monitor, transport because that's all I'm equipped to do. OR, take advantage of the unique situation I'm in and do what doesn't cost me or them a penny: care and listen. Every shift, between 6 and 12 times per 12 hours, I am invited into the most intimate situations in people's lives. I see their homes, smell their food, see their depravity, and muddy their carpet with my boots and bags.

There's something wholesome and raw about seeing people in the very situations that caused them the insult and injury they're seeking care for. It's rarely pretty to open a car door on a trauma patient and have a crack pipe and .22 shell casing fall on your feet. But it sure tells one hell of a story.

That's what I'm in it for. The story. I get lied to by about 75% of the patients I transport. "No boss. I didn't do any PCP. I don't touch the stuff." "Dude! I was just walking along this street, minding my own business, when I got stabbed." But everyone has a story and I'm glad to be the one to hear it, fiction or not.

I might not save any lives, and I really don't care if I do. But if I can make someone with a broken hip pain free, if I can lessen the likelihood that a patient with an acute asthma attack will be admitted to the hospital, and especially if I can give someone a sense of hope that things will be better, I feel like I've done something important.

About a year ago, I was reading a journal article that was discussing the direction EMS should go, one of the more memorable lines was something like this, To think that 15 minutes of care in the prehospital environment will make a significant difference in patient outcomes is foolish.

That's a hard pill to swallow. But if I don't admit that it's true, I'll be stuck focusing on the minutia and forgetting the other fact about EMS: the prehospital provider spends, in minutes, more time with a patient than an emergency medicine physician. That's an opportunity. A hell of a time to talk about teachable moments, a hell of a time to just Listen. Which in the end, is what most people want anyway -- to be respected and heard.

On the subject of the actual subject, I worked with a few people who'd made the bridge from EMT-P to either MD or DO. All in emergency medicine. They all were very good medics, and it was always very interesting to hear them relate their experiences in the prehospital setting to their work in the ED.

One thing that goes unrecognized is that working in emergency medicine as a physician, you'll be dealing with a lot of EMTs and paramedics. They'll be calling you for orders, advice, suggestions, and help. If for no other reason, having that first hand experience will give you a chance to impart useful knowledge for those paramedics, and you'll understand the limitations of EMS better than many people. Hell, you might even have the opportunity to work as a medical director or improve prehospital protocols.

But as someone who works as a paramedic, I don't think I have any special knowledge or skills that would make me a better physician that someone who isn't. They're quite a bit different, and the year I spent in medic school would have been better spent doing pre-med work if my immediate goal was to work as a physician.
Wow. You're starting off your membership here with some quality posts, my friend. I agree 100% with everything you said, and it is something I came to realize about EMS myself when I did my first 911 calls.
 
I think it should be echoed that we're going in the wrong direction when we start asking WHO saved someone's life. We all saved that life. From the surgeon who stopped the bleed, to the paramedic who put direct pressure on it and did rapid transport, to the person who called 911 in the first place for that person. That patient would not be alive if any of those links were broken.
 
I hate to see all this discouragement.

I say do it. Paramedic school is not that hard and there are usually places that offer classes either on the week ends or just twice a week which leaves plenty of time for undergrad studies. and you can do you ride along time during the summer session and not miss any college classes.
You have to be committed to the cause - that’s the only caveat.

Get your paramedic stuff done as soon as possible so you can work on the bus during the rest of your undergrad. this is the best cause you can study at work and pay for school.

Several of my friends did the paramedic course during their last year of nursing school in a weekend course - cake walk.

Once you are all done the paramedic experience is a great leg up for getting in to med school.

Good luck
 
it depends on the programs offered in your area. The one in my area is a two and a half year AAS degree. Others are more like "medic mills." Which I guess would be ideal for a pre-med.
 
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