Paramedic vs Emergency medicine doctor

mathlegend

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I've been thinking hard about these two...it seems exciting to be a paramedic, being out in the field and such while an ER doc seems to be confined to the ER. But I've read about many paramedics being burned out after few years, so I was thinking of getting a bachelors degree in emergency health services so I can get med school requirements out of the way and work as a paramedic for a few years, then apply to med school. Is this a bad choice?

And on a kind of related note, I heard that it is hard to find a job just as a paramedic, seems like most need to be paramedic/firefighter?

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I've been thinking hard about these two...it seems exciting to be a paramedic, being out in the field and such while an ER doc seems to be confined to the ER. But I've read about many paramedics being burned out after few years, so I was thinking of getting a bachelors degree in emergency health services so I can get med school requirements out of the way and work as a paramedic for a few years, then apply to med school. Is this a bad choice?

And on a kind of related note, I heard that it is hard to find a job just as a paramedic, seems like most need to be paramedic/firefighter?

An ER doctor can do more. Being a paramedic is not quite so good, less autonomy, bad pay etc. It is a bad choice. Go straight to med school.
 
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I've been thinking hard about these two...it seems exciting to be a paramedic, being out in the field and such while an ER doc seems to be confined to the ER. But I've read about many paramedics being burned out after few years, so I was thinking of getting a bachelors degree in emergency health services so I can get med school requirements out of the way and work as a paramedic for a few years, then apply to med school. Is this a bad choice?

And on a kind of related note, I heard that it is hard to find a job just as a paramedic, seems like most need to be paramedic/firefighter?

I wasn't aware that such a bachelors degree existed, but medical schools tend to discourage degrees that are vocational (I assume that this is a degree specifically for paramedics). Also, understand that there is an enormous difference between what doctors and paramedics do. It's not like paramedics are ER docs in a van (which, btw, there are so mobile ER clinics with docs). It is not a bad choice to go be a paramedic or take the degree, so long as you intend to practice for some time as a paramedic.
 
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There are 8 programs in the US I think. The one I am strongly considering is: http://ehs.umbc.edu/ParamedicTrack/ParamedicHome I never knew there are mobile ER clinics. I know there is a large difference in what they do. I'm thinking about getting the degree, work for a few years, then go to med school.
 
I've been thinking hard about these two...it seems exciting to be a paramedic, being out in the field and such while an ER doc seems to be confined to the ER. But I've read about many paramedics being burned out after few years, so I was thinking of getting a bachelors degree in emergency health services so I can get med school requirements out of the way and work as a paramedic for a few years, then apply to med school. Is this a bad choice?

And on a kind of related note, I heard that it is hard to find a job just as a paramedic, seems like most need to be paramedic/firefighter?

If for some reason you don't get into medical school, or you decide that being a physician is not for you - that BS in EMS won't be worth the paper it's printed on. There are several accelerated paramedic programs throughout the US if you just want to be a paramedic, and not have to get either an AA in paramedicine, or a bachelors in paramedicine. Most paramedic courses are 12 months - 18 months, so it's definitively a time commitment.

With that being said, I choose a accelerated paramedic program because I don't exactly want a BS in EMS, and being a paramedic two months after you turn 18 - pretty awesome pay compared to my peers, and rewarding work.
 
There are 8 programs in the US I think. The one I am strongly considering is: http://ehs.umbc.edu/ParamedicTrack/ParamedicHome I never knew there are mobile ER clinics. I know there is a large difference in what they do. I'm thinking about getting the degree, work for a few years, then go to med school.

I think this sounds like a great idea, but to be honest you do not need to get a B.S. in Emergency Medical Services, you can get a Bachelors in any field of study you are interested and on the side become a paramedic. You can take an EMT-1B class at your university or local community colleges, which are usually a semester long and you only go twice a week. After working 6 months part time as an EMT, either paid or volunteer you can attend to a paramedic program, which is also a semester long. You can do this while in school or take a semester off, or take less classes.

I would say this would sound as a better plan and cheaper. You can get a B.S./ B.A. in another field of study (Bio, Chem, History, Public Health, anything) and it will show your dedication to medicine working as an EMT-1 and going all the way to EMT-Paramedic and working as one through undergrad.

This is what I did and its great.

As far as someone FutureCTDoc said, Paramedics have a lot of autonomy when it comes to Pre-Hospital Care. They are the highest authority in patient care when it comes to this career.
 
I was thinking the bachelors in EMS is nice, since I got the degree required for med school admissions. I honestly do not know what I would like to major in...at all. It seems like an easier way; get pre reqs out the first two years, become a paramedic in the 3rd (or 4th?).

So many things to consider!
 
It sounds like you are interested in this Bachelor's degree because it is convenient - you will be able to become a paramedic while taking your med school pre-reqs and earning your Bachelor's. But to me, it sounds kind of roundabout.

A four year degree is absolutely not required to be a paramedic, and being a paramedic is absolutely not required for med school. If you become a paramedic during your fourth year of undergrad, you will barely work as a paramedic. You will have already taken your MCAT, already submitted med school apps (with pretty much zero time worked as a paramedic), and hopefully begin having interviews during the fall semester of your senior year.

If you want to work as a paramedic while doing a four-year degree for med school, then take a year off "pre med" school, become a paramedic, then go back to college and get a four year degree. Get your degree in something that interests you - you will do plenty of learning about acute care in med school and an emergency physician residency, so study art history or something in undergrad.
 
Yes, I thought about it because it seems to be convenient. I know that being a paramedic is not essential for med school, but I want to become one just for my own interest. I was thinking about working for a few years after I get my bachelors as a paramedic, but I'll consider becoming a paramedic first, then going to undergrad. Wouldn't it be tiring though, having to work out the shifts and class times. I'm not sure what I am interested to major in for college though!

Also, would it be possible to work as an ER doc but also as a paramedic, part time?
 
As has been said: Medic is much different than EM physician. You don't need a BS or AA to become a medic.

However, for medical school, any bachelor's degree will do, whether EMS, art history, "pre med", or biochemistry. I've heard of BS paramedic programs where you get your medic cert. two years into the program, and then you continue taking courses to get the BS.

I wouldn't recommend paramedic training as a stepping stone to medical school or nursing or PA, as I prefer to see people go into EMS for the sake of EMS. However, if you enter and then want to move on, then do it.

If you gain good experience as a medic or EMT (as in not just vollying for you college) and get indepth exposure to prehospital medical care, you will have a grasp on patient care and medicine that the majority of medical school applicants won't. You will have an understanding of EMS that the majority of EM physicians do not, despite the fact that most EM residencies require EMS "ride-alongs".

As far as job availability, pay, and autonomy, it all depends on where you are.
 
Yea I'm looking into being a paramedic because it seems like an interesting a rewarding job. I'm thinking of medical school after because I heard a lot of people burnout after a few years, and I can't imagine myself at age 40, still being a paramedic, but I can well imagine myself in my 20s, being a paramedic.

Just still not sure when to fit in my undergrad...or how
 
Burnout does happen, but I have found it to be dependent on where you work and your attitude. If you work at place that is urban, high volume (let say >5000 dispatches per ambulance), and sends you to a lot of low acuity calls then the chance of burnout is elevated, but there are people who handle it well. Add poor management and poor pay and burnout becomes more likely. Again, all depends where you work.

Modern EMS is young and has only been in existence since the 70s and has been experiencing a sort of identity crisis since its inception.

I didn't get to touch on it earlier, but there are aeromedical services that are staffed with physicians (e.g. UMass Life Flight in Worcester, MA). In some systems there is a physician available to respond to calls when needed (Robert Wood Johnson Medical Center in New Brunswick, NJ has one). There is push to have EMS be specialty of emergency medicine with some hospitals offering fellowships in EMS (e.g. RWJMS in NJ, AEMC in Philly). These are based more toward management of EMS systems and distaster response.

Get certified as an EMT and start working at that level. If you like it enough, go for medic training. (Has it been mentioned that there is a difference between an EMT and a paramedic?)
 
Thats interesting, physicians responding to calls.

I guess I'll get an EMT-B certification 1st year in college and work as one while I work on a bachelor's degree...and depending on which bachelor's program I choose, either become a paramedic junior year or the year after graduating from college. (I know the difference between EMT and paramedic)
 
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Thats interesting, physicians responding to calls.

I guess I'll get an EMT-B certification 1st year in college and work as one while I work on a bachelor's degree...and depending on which bachelor's program I choose, either become a paramedic junior year or the year after graduating from college. (I know the difference between EMT and paramedic)

Bear in mind that Emergency Physicians "responding to calls" is a pretty rare thing. When it occurs it's usually for educational purposes (for resident physicians) or for extraordinary circumstances.
 
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There's no point being a paramedic before going to med school. It doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint, it doesn't make sense from a professional standpoint, and while you can't imagine it right now it likely won't make sense from a personal standpoint. Seriously, just get on with your life and go straight through.

The differences between a paramedic and a board certified ER physician are light years in scope. It's like the difference between the guy making illegal bootleg copies of a DVD and Steven Spielberg. Yeah, they both see the final copies, but only one knows what's going on behind the scenes and can make changes to the final outcome when situations change, become more complex or don't go according to plan.
 
I understand...I think...but I thought that it would be interesting to work as a paramedic for a while...just a different type of experience.
 
Thats interesting, physicians responding to calls.

I guess I'll get an EMT-B certification 1st year in college and work as one while I work on a bachelor's degree...and depending on which bachelor's program I choose, either become a paramedic junior year or the year after graduating from college. (I know the difference between EMT and paramedic)

The first part (getting EMT-B training) sounds like a good idea.
 
Go for the GOLD. ER doc all the way. I'm not bashing paramedics in any way, shape, or form because they are one of the most necessary professions on the face of the Earth, If you want to actually practice medicine, then apply to med school after the MCAT your junior year in college and hope for the best. They are two very different fields, and don't see ER docs as being 'confined' to the ER. The ER is a 'field' of it's own.
 
Can you please elaborate on how ER is a field of its own?
 
Can you please elaborate on how ER is a field of its own?
The ER is a 'field of its own' in the sense that what goes on inside of the emergency room (procedures, tests, etc.) is very different from the form of emergency medicine that paramedics administer in the outside 'field'
 
Ah I see what you mean...guess I'll have to think hard about what I really want.
 
Burnout does happen, but I have found it to be dependent on where you work and your attitude. If you work at place that is urban, high volume (let say >5000 dispatches per ambulance), and sends you to a lot of low acuity calls then the chance of burnout is elevated, but there are people who handle it well. Add poor management and poor pay and burnout becomes more likely. Again, all depends where you work.

Modern EMS is young and has only been in existence since the 70s and has been experiencing a sort of identity crisis since its inception.

I didn't get to touch on it earlier, but there are aeromedical services that are staffed with physicians (e.g. UMass Life Flight in Worcester, MA). In some systems there is a physician available to respond to calls when needed (Robert Wood Johnson Medical Center in New Brunswick, NJ has one). There is push to have EMS be specialty of emergency medicine with some hospitals offering fellowships in EMS (e.g. RWJMS in NJ, AEMC in Philly). These are based more toward management of EMS systems and distaster response.

Get certified as an EMT and start working at that level. If you like it enough, go for medic training. (Has it been mentioned that there is a difference between an EMT and a paramedic?)

This, I only skimmed the topic but wasn't sure if it was stressed enough. Do not get a paramedic certification immediately after finishing EMT-B. You will be a poor medic. From what I've learned is that the medics who spend the time to do at least a year as an EMT-B do better when they become medics later, rather than immediately going through the program as fast as they can.

The reason? The medics who neglect a year of field experience as basics then to overlook their BLS skills and just focus on ALS. But that has shown to do more harm than good.
 
Ah I see what you mean...guess I'll have to think hard about what I really want.
Yep, and seeing that we are both in high school, we have plenty of time to consider what specific specialty to go in to.
Remember, don't jump too far ahead! Right now you should be more concerned about what undergrad you are going to and about completing your pre-req's in college before you even worry about med school. THEN once you are (hopefully) accepted to med school, you can go on rotations and see what field you are most interested in.

Basically, IMO, if you are academically cut for med school, pursue traditional medicine instead of pursuing a career as a EMT/Paramedic.
 
Can you please elaborate on how ER is a field of its own?

Emergency Medicine is its own specialty. We have our own residency training and our own board certification. It's definitely a field that is distinct from paramedicine in that we are at a much higher level medically. We have a wide array of diagnostics and treatments that paramedics do not. This is due to a combination of training and space (not much space on an ambulance).

It should be noted that paramedicine is a field distinct from EM as well. they do things that we don't. The vast majority of EPs (Emergency Physicians) don't know how to do vehicle extrications, technical rescue and so on.
 
Yes, if I do choose to go the paramedic route, I will work as an EMT-B for about a year until I start my paramedic training.

docB, what is a typical day for you like? Is it mostly filled with minor cases, that you basically look at them, order some tests, then send them home?
 
Yes, if I do choose to go the paramedic route, I will work as an EMT-B for about a year until I start my paramedic training.

docB, what is a typical day for you like? Is it mostly filled with minor cases, that you basically look at them, order some tests, then send them home?

It depends on which hospital I'm working at and what the day is like. Today there were lots of critically ill patients. Other days there's lots of lower acuity stuff (tune them up and send them out like you mentioned).
 
Hm...guess I'll talk to some more paramedics and doctors to see
 
I have read this thread with great interest. I am 42 years old and became a Paramedic 8 months after my 18th birthday. I currently own a company that teaches EMS Education online. I will not put the company name in this post as I don't want to be accused of spam advertising.

The question at hand here is multifaceted.

First:
Under NO circumstances should you ever choose to become a Paramedic instead of a Doctor. (Unless you have an allergy to money)!!!!

Second:
Paramedics work under the license of a Physician in most states. That is to say we are allowed to perform a variety of procedures based on written protocols or oral orders issued by a physician. We are not Doctors in the field; we are extensions of an ER Doctor. The level of care you are able to provide is directly related to the level of confidence the Medical Director has in you and your fellow medics. Some services offer extremely high levels of care. Others are strictly "stack em and pack em and get them to the ER"

Third:
Paramedics do get burned out. A lot of that depends on where you are working. (High call volume, length of shifts, staff shortages, ECT.) Most leave because of the money. Unfortunately the pay for this career is not equal with other health care professions with equal education.

4.
Yes you can get many degrees with the Paramedic courses as part of your degree plan. UT offers one that I know of. These degrees are usually sought by individuals looking to move up the ranks into management or education. An individual posted in this thread that the degree wasn't worth the "paper it was written on". I must disagree. A BS Degree from UT or any other nationally accredited University is definitely worth it. If you chose to leave Health care all together the management components of the degree would be useful to a host of potential employers.

5.
No you don't have to be a firefighter/paramedic. There are some municipalities that have the EMS housed in the Fire Service, however most cities have the EMS as a separate entity or it is contracted to a private service.

6.
I have no idea how being a paramedic will weigh on your Med School application or if it is worth the time. However the knowledge you gain from becoming a Paramedic is definitely worth it. The decision making skills and the ability to work under pressure would be invaluable. We have had practicing MD's take our class. They were medical directors for EMS services and wanted to get a better understanding of what Paramedics went through in the streets. They all told us that the rapid patient assessment techniques that Paramedics use would help them in their practice. This coming from established practicing MD's.

7.
There are currently 4 levels of certification in EMS and one License.

FR (First Responder) This level is what most Fireman and Police Officers certify at. It is basically what it says "First Responder" They are trained to treat and stabilize until more advanced personnel arrive.

EMT-B (EMT Basic) This level of certification is a little more advanced than the FR. They have a more knowledge in the care and treatment of patients and a deeper background into the pathophysiology of the patient’s illnesses or injuries. In most states they also have a small pharmacology component to their training and are allowed to administer epinephrine SC and Benadryl.

EMT I or EMT A (EMT Intermediate or Advanced) this level of certification is usually available for students who have completed roughly 50% of the Paramedic curriculum. They have been trained on IV therapy, standard intubation techniques, and a more advanced Pharmacology component. This level of certification was made available so that student could basically get a raise at work while completing the Paramedic course.

EMT-P (Paramedic) at this level you have completed the entire Paramedic curriculum. Cardiology and Pharmacology are the 2 big components here. They are the hardest 2 for most students.

EMT-LP (Licensed Paramedic) some states offer a license instead of a certificate for Paramedics who received an AS Degree. This license truly is not worth the paper it is printed on. You may get an extra fifty cents an hour a work and the privilege of saying you are licensed and that is about it. The degree on the other hand is worth it if you are wanting to move up in the ranks of become an EMS educator.

8.
To finish this post I will tell you of another option. Online EMS Education. You can take EMT-B all the way through EMT-P online. There are several companies out there offering this online, including my own. It is possible for you to complete your didactic (textbook) training online. You then go to a predestinated facility for your hands on skills training and testing. After that you attend your clinical rotations at various hospitals and EMS services. Once you have completed your clinical experiences you are eligible to take the NREMT Exam (National Registry of EMT's). NREMT is the most common pathway for certification and is accepted in 40 states. Our hands on and clinical component usually takes about 10 days for EMT-B (Depending on the volume of pt. contacts you get at your clinicals.) Higher Levels of certification take a little longer. Online Education allows you to work at your own pace. We have had highly motivated students who have completed the EMT-B in a month. Others take longer. The great thing is that it works in your schedule.

I hope this information helps and if you need more information feel free to ask. I will not put the name of my company on the forum but if you want it, private message me and I will give it to you.
 
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Get you EMT-B cert and work/volunteer for a year to see if you like it and to get some clinical experience. It sounds fun and it can often be interesting but just like the doctor is "stuck in the ER" you are going to see that alot of what EMT's and Medics do is pretty routine. Not every call is going to be an MI or multisystem trauma. As a medic you could go weeks between ALS calls and see nothing more psych cases and people with the flu. As an EMT-B you could go years without helping on a code depending on where you are working.

In terms of excitement the ER docs see much more because rather than just seeing what happens in their area of town they get to see every case from every town that EMS brings to their hospital.

I'm an EMT and hoping to go into emergency medicine and basically every single medic I have talked to tells me not to be a paramedic and go directly to school. The big reason seems to be money. Working 18 hour shifts and making 40k a year might seem cool when you are fresh out of college but it's going to be very uncool when you are a jaded 40yr old as many of these guys are. I've also noticed that alot of older medics end up leaving and going to other areas of healthcare such as PA or Nursing. Some go to medical school too, but since most are older and have families when they leave it seems that they don't usually want to commit the time/money.
 
Thanks medic, that was detailed and informative. I do have a few more questions though. Why did you choose to be a paramedic? What type of advances are available for paramedics, besides for EMS education? Is it basically management? So if I just want to work in the field, it's not worth getting a BS degree? Is it even worth getting an AS degree? What kind of rotations do you do during your paramedic training? Would it be better to get paramedic training at a community college, private institution (NCTI), or online?

JLaw, I will get my EMT B right after high school and see how it goes. Still a lot to figure out!
 
I've been thinking hard about these two...it seems exciting to be a paramedic, being out in the field and such while an ER doc seems to be confined to the ER. But I've read about many paramedics being burned out after few years, so I was thinking of getting a bachelors degree in emergency health services so I can get med school requirements out of the way and work as a paramedic for a few years, then apply to med school. Is this a bad choice?

And on a kind of related note, I heard that it is hard to find a job just as a paramedic, seems like most need to be paramedic/firefighter?

If you want to be an MD, go the MD route. Whether you get your bachelor's in PA (which is becoming harder to do), paramedic, RN, or anything else in the health field, you'll still need to do a post-bacc (or supplementary) program to complete the basic sciences you need for medicine...no matter how much field or clinical experience you have with you bachelor's degree.

Decide now, or decide later. It's up to you. But pre-med remains different from pre-health.
 
As far as someone FutureCTDoc said, Paramedics have a lot of autonomy when it comes to Pre-Hospital Care. They are the highest authority in patient care when it comes to this career.

To be fair, it really depends on the system you are in. System designs range from limited number of interventions with mandatory online medical control contacts for anything remotely serious to having a broad array of interventions and the only time online medical control is contacted is if the paramedic has some sort of question or is using one of the few high risk/high reward procedures that that system wants online approval for. Don't confuse "highest autonomy" with "a lot of autonomy." For example, if I was going to be a paramedic, you couldn't pay me enough to work in So. Cal.
 
From what I've learned is that the medics who spend the time to do at least a year as an EMT-B do better when they become medics later, rather than immediately going through the program as fast as they can.

There are two reasons why this exists. First, a lot of people in EMS, to be honest, aren't the brightest crayon in the box. It just shouldn't take you a year to learn how to do an assessment, take a blood pressure, and get a history. The people who need a year probably shouldn't be in EMS to begin with.

Second, most paramedic schools are crap and refuse to teach students the skills and knowledge needed to function as a paramedic. So they use this '1 year experience' ploy as a crutch to get by. Could you imagine if medical school didn't teach students how to do a physical exam because 'we should already know how through our clinical experiences as a premed?'

Sorry, but anything that you learn as a basic should be taught during paramedic school as well. This alone would go a long way to break down the artificial divide between "BLS" and "ALS" interventions. After all, who has ever heard of a "BLS" physician?
 
What I did: EMT-B in my first year of college - Paramedic after college - worked for years - finished med school

There are about a hundred very different issues going on in this thread, and I can sense the OPs confusion.

It seems the OP started with asking if the BS in EMS is a good idea for an undergraduate degree, leaving open the possibility of med school in the future. In short, it is. But, a bachelors degree vs. a medic cert are two separate issues, and everyone's only hitting the medic issue.

A BS in EMS (or Emergency Management... or whatever) is a good idea if it is from an accredited college/university like UMBC or UT. It is more than worth the paper that the diploma is printed on. Understand that you will be completing an accredited bachelors degree of ~120 credits. An EMT class or required clinical time may be only 3 credits per semester. Your other credits will be in statistics, history, bio, chem, health policy, psychology, politics, etc - a bona fide bachelors degree where one third is in the major area of study, one third in liberal arts/general education, one third in elective or minor area of study. There's nothing wrong with this whether you are going to med school, or not.

A Bachelors degree will help you get into med school. A medic certification will not. A medic certification may not even help you in med school - in that, knowing how to start an IV might save 5 minutes of your time, but having been in charge of reviving a patient in cardiac arrest dozens and dozens of times may make you feel better when you are the lowest guy on the totem pole in a Code in med school. But I can assure you that nobody will notice that you aren't sweating. At best, someone may ask you if youve taken an ACLS course before... get my point? EMS and Medicine are vastly different. As different as being a sports journalist and a baseball player. Both "know" baseball, but in two very different ways. And one is not "better" than the other. Its not "going for the gold". Its going for something which is more intellectually challenging and time consuming... not gold per se.

Also understand that EMS is incredibly region-dependent in how you are trained, what you can do, and even how closely your job relates to Emergency Medicine. In some places you are a Firefighter who can put an IV in somone. Where I worked, you are the eyes ears and hands of the Emergency Physician who you are transporting the patient to. You'll have to figure out if your particular setup will help you get to where you want to be.

There are plenty of other ways to become a medic as many others mentioned, but none of those seemed to be part of your plan. Thats fine. You arent sure if you want to be a medic or a doc.

To me it seems like you're slightly interested in EMS and slightly interested in being an emergency physician. In my experience, and what Ive seen in others, testing the waters of EMS and trying to extrapolate that to wanting to be an Emergency Physician is a HUGE mistake. On one hand, "seeing if you like" EMS rather than "training to become an EMT" means that you are going through the motions and seeing how you feel. Youre going to hate it, and ruin your whole plan. On the other hand, if you like EMS and then go to med school for that reason, you're in for a rude awakening when you have to learn about all of biomedical science, and things which have nothing to do with saving lives. If you just assess how you feel about things as they come - learning to rescue, losing sleep, getting shot at by the guy that shot your patient- you'll give up. If you take it all in as part of the job without "seeing if you like it".... you'll love it.

But here's the issue. If you dont know if you want to be a medic or a doctor, it may not be a good idea to set yourself up this way. Especially since your BS graduation requirements require you to be a medic. These programs are designed for people who want to be informed and educated in a career in EMS. Why not take a general Bio or Finance, or History degree - something you like. Take your 8 premed classes, and if you want to, the EMT-B. Why box yourself in at this point? With your plan, you arent giving yourself options, you are actually limiting yourself. Trust me on this. I'm a whole lot older than you.

OP seems to be concerned about burnout (which can be from being, overworked, sleep deprived, post-traumatic stress, or being underpaid). I dont think it makes sense to think in this way. I know both ER docs and Medics who have been doing it for 25-30 years. You do not burn out if you have no illusions of what you are getting yourself into. What really doesn't make sense is to plan to go to med school to save yourself from burnout in EMS. You'll burn out in your second semester Biochem class in med school.

Enough for now. Heres the bottom line. Youre in high school, and are looking for college major which will give you exposure to EMS and options for MD/DO. Getting a BS in Emergency Services is a viable option to do both However, the program is designed to turn you into an EMS professional who understands what its like to work the streets, as well as in the classroom, as well as in the municipal board room. Its pretty specific. If this is what you want to be able to "fall back on", then fine. But you are going all in. You aren't testing the waters.
 
Unfortunately the pay for this career is not equal with other health care professions with equal education.

...but to be fair, not many health care fields still don't require a degree to teach or practice and not many fields can be completed in as little as 9 months. An RN (the favorite whipping post in the reimbursement debate) does not have equal education to a paramedic. The average RN (who almost universally has an associates degree, unlike paramedics) has higher education than the average paramedic.
There are currently 4 levels of certification in EMS and one License.
EMT-B
EMT I or EMT A
EMT-P
EMT-LP
You're from Texas. I know you're from Texas because you're mentioning EMT-LP. The fact is that states are free to set what ever requirements and levels for their EMS responders that they want. Washington has something like 7 different levels of EMT (Basic, airway, IV, airway/IV, intermediate, intermediate/airway, paramedic). Iowa calls providers at the EMT-Intermediate 1999 curriculum a "paramedic' and providers at the EMT-Paramedic level of training a "paramedic specialist." Oregon, on the other hand, is the only state that I know of that requires their paramedics to have an associates degree.

Since the OP is in California, I'll give a quick run down on California's levels. The first thing to know is that EMT-I and EMT-IIs are certified at the county level and that protocols and scope of practice for providers at all levels are determined by the 'local emergency medical services authority' (i.e. the county you work in) The EMT-I (roman numeral 1, not the letter "I") is the official level for EMT-B and you will see services and counties use this designation. EMT-II (2) is the intermediate level and is restricted only to areas that have shown that they can't provide paramedic level services. You won't see EMT-IIs working in any urban county in California. EMT-P is the highest level. See 1986's post for the descriptions.

Now, of course, to throw another wrinkle in the discussion of levels, the new national levels deserve mention. Again, just because the following levels are what's being developed at the national level through the NHTSA (which is where the National Registry of Emergency Medical Technicians use to get the standards which they base their tests off of), the new levels are EMT (similar to EMT-B), Advanced EMT (AEMT. Similar to EMT-I/85. Some different interventions and skills), and Paramedic (note: not EMT-Paramedic). The EMT-I/99 is essentially gone and can either convert to AEMT or take a moderate length course to upgrade to paramedic. Regardless, all levels will need a transition course to go to the new levels, but most of those transition courses will take the place of the refresher course needed every two years.
 
Thanks medic, that was detailed and informative. I do have a few more questions though. Why did you choose to be a paramedic? What type of advances are available for paramedics, besides for EMS education? Is it basically management? So if I just want to work in the field, it's not worth getting a BS degree? Is it even worth getting an AS degree? What kind of rotations do you do during your paramedic training? Would it be better to get paramedic training at a community college, private institution (NCTI), or online?

JLaw, I will get my EMT B right after high school and see how it goes. Still a lot to figure out!

Advances for paramedics include education, management, health policy, etc. If you just want to work the streets, the BS is not required.... but "worth" is up to you. All the management and health policy medics I know (on the state level) have whatever bachelors degrees and wherever medic certs. Then they went to a good graduate school for an MPH, MBA or a JD.

Is it worth getting the AS degree.... it depends on how its set up in your area, and what you intend to do with it. By me, the medic course was a certification. If you wanted the AS you simply had to register with the affiliated college and they would give you the college credits. Then you had to pay a small fortune in "administrative fees". So for us, it might be worth it if you want to pay for an accredited degree in something you already did.

What kinda rotations in medic school... off the top of my head... Emergency Med, Anesthesia, Pediatric emergency, labor/delivery, neonatal ICU, adult ICU, Cardiac critical care, cardiac cath, psychiatric emergency, respiratory therapy, ER-Triage, lots of ambulance. What you do on them varies from just watching, to rotating just like one of the med students, to acting like a medic.

What sort of setting.... what do you want? Everything has its selling points, catering to the abundantly lazy, to the uber-busy EMS buff with a mortgage, to the doctor wannabe. My program was in a teaching hospital... meaning that every department was set up to train residents into independent doctors. So I was in an ideal learning environment. I was also there for 40 hours per week, and there was nothing I wasn't responsible for knowing. If a chest x-ray was displayed and the senior resident pointed to me, I had to read it. They believed that the best way to understand the anatomy and the disease processes that we are stabilizing is to see them. Im glad that I was in this sort of a program. But it might be overkill for somebody who wants to be a firefighter and just needs to know how to start an IV.
 
Thanks medic, that was detailed and informative. I do have a few more questions though. Why did you choose to be a paramedic? What type of advances are available for paramedics, besides for EMS education? Is it basically management? So if I just want to work in the field, it's not worth getting a BS degree? Is it even worth getting an AS degree? What kind of rotations do you do during your paramedic training? Would it be better to get paramedic training at a community college, private institution (NCTI), or online?

JLaw, I will get my EMT B right after high school and see how it goes. Still a lot to figure out!

I got into EMS because I really enjoyed it. It was the most rewarding job I have ever had. I have left it a few times for more lucrative employment but I keep coming back. Now I volunteer with the EMS service in my county.

What advancement opportunities there are depend on you. Management, Education, and the Political end of EMS are the main areas where a Degree would be almost necessary. To function in the field as a Paramedic it is not necessary. The rotations issue has been adequately covered by howelljolly. I also agree with howelljolly on your question of which school is best to take your paramedic course at. Quality is what you need to look for. Ask the prospective school what their NREMT pass rate is. Ask them where their stats rank in the State and Nationally. You can receive a quality education from all three venues and you can receive an equally poor one based on the individual program.

I did not realize you were from CA. CA is it's own little EMS world with rules set county by county. If that is where you want to go to Paramedic School and work at, I would suggest you go by and talk to the medics at your local ambulance station. They would be able to answer the questions you may have about the local training programs. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the Texas rules and NREMT rules to even try and figure a county by county rules system out. LOL NREMT certification is not required by does offer some portability if you leave your home state. Roughly %90 of the states offer a reciprocity pathway from NREMT certification to state certification. Some states are just a matter of paying a fee, others allow you to challenge the state exam. Even the county by county system in CA has reciprocity pathways for out of state paramedics to receive certification.

Good luck and if you have any more questions just ask. :)
 
Thanks guys! I'll think hard about all this information, and I'll talk to some local paramedics and see what they think.
 
Oh actually, if I want to go the paramedic-->management route, what degree would be most useful? What should I major in for my bachelors and for masters? Does a master in public health, with a management/administration concentraion?
 
Oh actually, if I want to go the paramedic-->management route, what degree would be most useful? What should I major in for my bachelors and for masters? Does a master in public health, with a management/administration concentraion?

MPH will probably not help you that much in EMS from the paramedic angle. MPH mainly deals with epidemiology and healthcare policy in regard to resource utilization. An MBA might be more helpful for EMS management.
 
another issue is the value of paramedic training to other future careers aside from md/do.
lots of medics who originally considered medschool go on to become nurses, r.t.'s, pa's, etc and this prior exposure as a medic is very helpful at providing a foundation upon which to build these other medical careers.
I started emt training my senior yr in high school, worked as an er tech through college and during those 4 yrs picked up emt-d( defib used to be a specialty course) and OJT medical assistant certification( which basically meant venipuncture and im/subq injection training after emt-d). 1 month after getting my bs I started a 1 yr certificate paramedic program. I worked as a medic and medic instructor for 5 years before becoming a pa. the medic training put me light years ahead of many of my classmates in pa school and still gets me preferential treatment when I apply for em pa positions because they know I can do all the critical skills any medic can do but might be hit or miss in an em pa who may have limited exposure to these types of procedures depending on their prior work experience.
 
MPH will probably not help you that much in EMS from the paramedic angle. MPH mainly deals with epidemiology and healthcare policy in regard to resource utilization. An MBA might be more helpful for EMS management.

Probably.

But I guess it depends on what your job is, and what kind of system you work in. In a large system where you really are dealing with ongoing policy and resource utilization changes in relation to statistical trends, an MPH might be useful. That sort of a job would take you as far away from an ambulance as you can be though.

I think, more than an MBA, an MPA would be useful. OP, heres a link to the faculty bios of one specific MPA program geared toward Emergency & Disaster management. You can check out the bio's go get an idea of how these people educationally set themselves up for their careers. There's another guy i know of who is/was on the faculty who got a BS in whatever, then EMT-P, MPH, and JD (law). I think, what you'll find across the board is that it doesn't much matter what you get your BS in. As long as it isnt a clown college degree... The few times I've met someone who may have had a problem with their choice of major was when they were trying to do something outside their Bachelors field of Electrical Engeneering, or in Physics. In both cases, they had "low" GPAs which were really par for the course in these subjects, but low compared to the average. Also, their courseloads didnt leave any room for them to take a liberal arts/gen ed. class like economics or sociology.

http://www.metropolitan.edu/publicaffairs/mpa_emergencyfaculty.php
 
So it seems like a MPA is more useful than a MBA, which is more useful than a MPH? How about a MHA?

So basically for bachelors, I can just major in anything?
 
So it seems like a MPA is more useful than a MBA, which is more useful than a MPH? How about a MHA?

So basically for bachelors, I can just major in anything?


Nothing is more categorically "useful" than anything else. All of these are different in focus - public administration, business administration, public health, health administration. You can do anything you want with any one of these. You'd want to research the individual programs, and see what sorts of projects they take on as students, and what affiliations and externships the university has with the government and outside institutions. Also find out what their graduates end up doing. You can also specifically look for Masters programs which concentrate on Emergency Services. Depending on the university, it could be an MPA or MPH, or whatever, but the existing affiliations and program structure would be helpful, regardless of the degree offered.

For a bachelors, you can major in whatever you want, as long as it meets your goals. If you want to be able to get your 8 premed classes in, and leave room for some political science or economics electives for example, make sure the degree program allows this. Of the top of my head, I know that this is not possible with many Bachelors degree programs in engineering, nursing, and education (the BS including teacher certification). You can kinda see that coming though - those programs teach you the theory, and spend your would-be elective and general education time training you to apply the theory into practice.

Oh, and you should talk to a guidance or career counselor.
 
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Oh actually, if I want to go the paramedic-->management route, what degree would be most useful? What should I major in for my bachelors and for masters? Does a master in public health, with a management/administration concentraion?

You had mentioned the EHS program @ UMBC earlier...they offer two tracks as part of their EHS program- one in paramedic science and one in EMS management. Check out there website and look at the management track, it may be just what you are looking for.

If you want to go into EMS management, I would suggest getting your paramedic from a local community college on the 18-2 year track, and then at some point apply to college (UMBC, UT, etc) for their EHS management program.
 
Just thought I'd throw this in: I have seen an ER doc who also works part time as a medic to get out in the field and keep a broad perspective. Thought this was interesting :)
 
Just thought I'd throw this in: I have seen an ER doc who also works part time as a medic to get out in the field and keep a broad perspective. Thought this was interesting :)

I also know em pa's who still work a few medic shifts/mo for the same reason....
 
Yea, I plan to talk to my school's career/college counselor on mon to see what she has to say.

Wouldn't it be better to get college over with, then go to medic school?

Thats tight, ER docs/PAs working part time as medics.
 
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