Particular situation

[Calcan]

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I'm a Canadian MS4 in a weird unmatched situation. I'm non-trad and immediately before med school taught a couple MCAT sections after doing well in pre-med type courses for a couple of years (I had a different background originally). Unfortunately, I didn't turn down an interview or offer to go to a French-speaking school (which makes up a small part of Canada) and would have meant going through a second application cycle (finances were also tight, though).

French environment has been a huge performance barrier, especially in medically oriented rotations & pre-clerkship grades. Even though the school knew my background, I've been blamed during clerkship for bad French, even though I've worked very hard to improve, which has had all sorts of secondary repercussions like having difficulty writing complex notes, etc.. Preclerkship was brutal without good outcomes so that doesn't look good on paper - I was part of the last group with grades vs P/F.

I did really well in electives & rotations like plastics, derm, ID, obs-gyn (well).. but disastrous outcome in rotations like pediatrics and family with language being criticized.

There's almost nothing in our curriculum that's Step 1 like - but with a lot of effort I wrote and passed using some of our very limited break in MS2 - originally, obvi, I didn't think I'd need it for anything except for maybe fellowship.

I'm thinking of writing & trying to do really well on Step 2 and maybe aiming for FM (or something else) somewhere warmer in the US - any ideas how realistic this is ? I went unmatched in Canada this year so have to reapply (and probably redo some rotations ). I did a bit of high-school in Cali a long time ago, have old friends in LA, & have cousins in NY.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice via DM fine too!

 

[Mass Effect]

How did you do on Step 1? If you didn't match in Canada, I think it's going to be an uphill battle trying to match in the US. Also, the above narrative reads like a dozen excuses even if you don't mean it to come across that way. If you do get interviews in the US, I'd work on explaining yourself in a better way.

 

[Calcan]

How did you do on Step 1? If you didn't match in Canada, I think it's going to be an uphill battle trying to match in the US. Also, the above narrative reads like a dozen excuses even if you don't mean it to come across that way. If you do get interviews in the US, I'd work on explaining yourself in a better way.

Ok - I understand. How do you suggest I structure the narrative? I'm just looking at outcomes in my rotations.

Step 1 was a squeak pass- I basically was like.. ok I spent my short break on this, might as well write it and pass because I didn't think I'd ever apply to the US for residency (US takes way more IMGs than Canada).

 

[Mass Effect]

Ok - I understand. How do you suggest I structure the narrative? I'm just looking at outcomes in my rotations.

Step 1 was a squeak pass- I basically was like.. ok I spent my short break on this, might as well write it and pass because I didn't think I'd ever apply to the US for residency.

There's nothing keeping you from trying, but I think you're going to have a difficult time. If by LA you mean Los Angeles (as opposed to Louisiana), that's going to almost surely be a no-go. Same for NYC (though there are sweat factories in NYC looking for a warm body so who knows?). I would concentrate on FM at community programs in the midwest to get the biggest bang for your buck.

On the narrative issue, thinks like this:

"Even though the school knew my background, I've been blamed during clerkship for bad French, even though I've worked very hard to improve, which has had all sorts of secondary repercussions like having difficulty writing complex notes, etc.. Preclerkship was brutal without good outcomes so that doesn't look good on paper - I was part of the last group with grades vs P/F. "

Should be re-worded to say something like this:

I had trouble with the French language and that showed and unfortunately, was reflected in my grades. I worked hard to improve, but continued to have trouble writing complex notes. I also struggled with some pre-clerkship courses.

Done. And don't explain unless asked. No one cares that you were part of the last group with grades and it doesn't sound good to preface your narrative with "even though they knew what they were getting..." or to suggest you were blamed for bad French.

 

[Calcan]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah - it's Los Angeles .. I don't know anything about Louisiana.

Ok - so the fact that I was blamed for bad French is irrelevant (and this effected some evaluations like pretty strongly).. just kind of accept that and admit that it's my fault for being bad at French.

Sounds fair - hopefully I'll get a chance to improve on Step 2.

 

[Mass Effect]

Ok - so the fact that I was blamed for bad French is irrelevant (and this effected some evaluations like pretty strongly).. just kind of accept that and admit that it's my fault for being bad at French.

But that's what you're saying in the revised version. "I had trouble with the French language and that showed and unfortunately, was reflected in my grades" is a way of saying "my problems with French affected my evaluations." The only part that's different is the "I was blamed" because that sounds like the onus isn't on you and honestly, it should be. If someone comes to the US for med school/clerkships and their English isn't good, it's likely that will affect the evals here too. But it isn't the fault of the evaluator.

 

[Emmet2301]

I think you prolly still have a chance at some of the programs that usually take more IMG students. There's a lot in NYC too.

 

[Calcan]

But that's what you're saying in the revised version. "I had trouble with the French language and that showed and unfortunately, was reflected in my grades" is a way of saying "my problems with French affected my evaluations." The only part that's different is the "I was blamed" because that sounds like the onus isn't on you and honestly, it should be. If someone comes to the US for med school/clerkships and their English isn't good, it's likely that will affect the evals here too. But it isn't the fault of the evaluator.

Ok - I understand what you're saying. It's not a perfect analogy though, because many references/textbooks are in English so naturally French-speakers are much better at translating into French than someone like myself. I think 100% immersion would have actually worked better, like what would happen in the US. Plus, my goal was never to uniquely serve francophone populations, but more work in places where there's lots of English & French speakers - English speakers often have problems with French especially.

 

[Calcan]

I think you prolly still have a chance at some of the programs that usually take more IMG students. There's a lot in NYC too.

What about FL, SC, AZ, NM.. ? NYC is super expensive.

 

[longhaul3]

Ok - I understand what you're saying. It's not a perfect analogy though, because many references/textbooks are in English so naturally French-speakers are much better at translating into French than someone like myself. I think 100% immersion would have actually worked better, like what would happen in the US. Plus, my goal was never to uniquely serve francophone populations, but more work in places where there's lots of English & French speakers - English speakers often have problems with French especially.

The point is—and you mentioned it in your first post—that you should not have gone to a French-speaking school if your French wasn't strong enough. They knew your background, but you also knew what you were getting yourself into, and ultimately you're the one responsible for you.

I agree that you would have a difficult time matching if you present your story the way you originally did. I think the rewritten version that was offered is much better. You have to be willing to own it and look ahead to how you will be a great resident for X program.

NYC is super expensive, but you're not going to be in much of a position to choose. You'll have to apply very broadly no matter what.

 

[Calcan]

The point is—and you mentioned it in your first post—that you should not have gone to a French-speaking school if your French wasn't strong enough. They knew your background, but you also knew what you were getting yourself into, and ultimately you're the one responsible for you.

I agree that you would have a difficult time matching if you present your story the way you originally did. I think the rewritten version that was offered is much better. You have to be willing to own it and look ahead to how you will be a great resident for X program.

NYC is super expensive, but you're not going to be in much of a position to choose. You'll have to apply very broadly no matter what.

I agree I made a mistake. I think I was a little desperate, overly optimistic, full of hubris and misguided advice. It's easy to say in hindsight.

The record is worse than I've presented - but thanks for the advice. I'll present things along these lines, but there's rotation failure, etc..

I guess I'll look to do well on Step 2 as a first step.

I still have chances in Canada, so I don't know how broadly I'll apply, but appreciate everyone's input.

 

[JibsGuy52]

Step 1 is going to hurt but I can’t see why you wouldn’t match FM if you applied broadly.

 

[longhaul3]

I agree I made a mistake. I think I was a little desperate, overly optimistic, full of hubris and misguided advice. It's easy to say in hindsight.

The record is worse than I've presented - but thanks for the advice. I'll present things along these lines, but there's rotation failure, etc..

I guess I'll look to do well on Step 2 as a first step.

I still have chances in Canada, so I don't know how broadly I'll apply, but appreciate everyone's input.

Good luck. It's important to remember that there are people in WAY worse shape than you who match in the US every year. Non-Canadian IMGs, failed Step 1, failed Step 2, failed everything, arrest records, barely speak English, what have you, still match. What most of them will have in common is a singular focus on matching at any cost, a relentlessly (often quixotically) positive attitude, and an understanding of both their weaknesses, so they can address them, and their strengths, so they can highlight them. The ones who match are not dwelling on their shortcomings but trying to hustle and make it happen.

 

[Mass Effect]

Ok - I understand what you're saying. It's not a perfect analogy though, because many references/textbooks are in English so naturally French-speakers are much better at translating into French than someone like myself. I think 100% immersion would have actually worked better, like what would happen in the US. Plus, my goal was never to uniquely serve francophone populations, but more work in places where there's lots of English & French speakers - English speakers often have problems with French especially.

Excuses are not going to fly is the point.

Good luck. It's important to remember that there are people in WAY worse shape than you who match in the US every year. Non-Canadian IMGs, failed Step 1, failed Step 2, failed everything, arrest records, barely speak English, what have you, still match

Eh, I don't know how common that is. A lot of people in way better shape than the OP also fail to match every year. There are outliers on both ends, but they're outside the norm. I agree that OP won't be in a position to choose with non-US MD (even if it's Canada), that Step 1 score, bad pre-clinicals, and clerkship failure.

 

[Calcan]

Good luck. It's important to remember that there are people in WAY worse shape than you who match in the US every year. Non-Canadian IMGs, failed Step 1, failed Step 2, failed everything, arrest records, barely speak English, what have you, still match. What most of them will have in common is a singular focus on matching at any cost, a relentlessly (often quixotically) positive attitude, and an understanding of both their weaknesses, so they can address them, and their strengths, so they can highlight them. The ones who match are not dwelling on their shortcomings but trying to hustle and make it happen.

Thanks for the input again. Would it be absolutely nuts to also consider very low tier Ob-Gyn (assuming strong Step 2)?

 

[Calcan]

Excuses are not going to fly is the point.

Eh, I don't know how common that is. A lot of people in way better shape than the OP also fail to match every year. There are outliers on both ends, but they're outside the norm. I agree that OP won't be in a position to choose with non-US MD (even if it's Canada), that Step 1 score, bad pre-clinicals, and clerkship failure.

Yeah - I guess I just have to present things as you suggest, then.

 

[longhaul3]

Eh, I don't know how common that is. A lot of people in way better shape than the OP also fail to match every year. There are outliers on both ends, but they're outside the norm. I agree that OP won't be in a position to choose with non-US MD (even if it's Canada), that Step 1 score, bad pre-clinicals, and clerkship failure.

Absolutely. Not saying OP is in a great spot, but that it's possible and requires the right attitude and approach.

Thanks for the input again. Would it be absolutely nuts to also consider very low tier Ob-Gyn (assuming strong Step 2)?

I can't say. Your best place to go for actual data on that will be NRMP Charting the Outcomes. You will need specialty-specific advising help from people here and/or at your school.

Just realized—if you're an M4 and are about to graduate, what are you doing this upcoming year?

 

[Calcan]

Absolutely. Not saying OP is in a great spot, but that it's possible and requires the right attitude and approach.


I can't say. Your best place to go for actual data on that will be NRMP Charting the Outcomes. You will need specialty-specific advising help from people here and/or at your school.

Just realized—if you're an M4 and are about to graduate, what are you doing this upcoming year?

Thanks again.

So my school is weird. It has a shortened clerkship with electives BEFORE cores with basically no break until the end.

Given I have rotation failures, coronavirus etc.. with no match, I'll be repeating 2 or 3 rotations which will take some time. I think the school wants to help me improve my record - but many of my rotations I did surpass expectations... some official decision soon.

I was thinking of prepping Step 2 before I go back into clinic.

I hear what everyone is saying - but it's not as if I really had a clue what I was getting into since obvi I wouldn't have touched it otherwise... nor was anyone saying this is absolutely crazy (or not to my face)..

There has been a lot of improvement just kind of think there's a limit and would prefer to move on somewhere rather than constantly not reaching my fullest potential.. not to mention feeling like a constant outsider - I feel I have more ties to certain areas of the US than where I'm studying.

Some staff have literally walked up to me and said (from competitive specialties) - congratulations on doing this.. I did English-speaking fellowship and it was brutal, etc.

 

[Splenda88]

I actually don't think it will be very difficult to match if you apply broadly...

 

[Doggeronie]

I personally hope you do match. It's not fair that you're held back by a French language barrier when both Canada and the USA are majority English speaking.

 

[ndafife]

Thanks for the input again. Would it be absolutely nuts to also consider very low tier Ob-Gyn (assuming strong Step 2)?

Yes, it would be absolutely nuts.

 

[Calcan]

I personally hope you do match. It's not fair that you're held back by a French language barrier when both Canada and the USA are majority English speaking.

I made a bad decision to come here with a language barrier that I haven’t been able to fully overcome, despite what has been acknowledge as a very strong work ethic. Would have probably been better to reapply which happens a lot in Canada, but hindsight is 20/20. I had the privilege of being a native ENglish-speaker with academic ability, but threw away many of my advantages in making my misguided decision.

My electives and some of my rotations I think showed to me at least that I was as capable as anyone else, and probably would have done really well without having any language barrier - since matching in Canada is mostly based on clinical performance - not test scores. It’s not as if I’m a terrible test-writer (in English) - I had a summer job for TPR teaching MCAT before I started.

But, hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[Modstopizdy]

This particular OP found himself in a particular situation, and program directors were having none of it!

 

[Calcan]

This particular OP found himself in a particular situation, and program directors were having none of it!

Sadly - I submitted a test score that I took when I was younger and was accepted to a very high IQ society (Triple Nine Society). I don't think it means anything at all - don't believe in IQ 🙁 Being exposed to a lot of French would have been way more important for me being a stellar medical student here.