Pass/Fail Dental Schools

[papichulo]

Hey,

I was wondering about these schools who have pass/fail systems. I know schools such as Harvard, Columbia, UConn, and UCSF all do this. Does this mean there is no class ranking, or is there? It might seem like a dumb question, but I heard one individual say to another that they were under the impression that at some schools, they have pass/fail systems but still have a class ranking. Does anyone know if this is true, and if it's true, is it true at all of the dental schools using this system? I am especially interested in Harvard and UCSF!

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[1992Corolla]

there are class rankings otherwise how would they decide who to take for specialty programs. I am unaware of how it they keep track of rankings.

 

[Holy Thursday]

At UConn, there were other ways to come up with "implied" class rankings in your LORs. At a lot of schools, even though they are P/NP, some have High Pass, Pass, and No pass. Thus, that is basically a grade system. I think UCLA has P/MP/NP but the P can just be a P or have anywhere from 1 to 5 E's (for excellent) and the MP means barely passing...so what is the f'in point of P/NP with that system?

 

[DREDAY]

At UCSF the first two years where the classes are PASS/NO PASS there are absolutely NO RANKINGS. When you apply for specialty they base it on your letters of recomendations and board scores. UCSF and Harvard have done that because in the past students who were ranked 35th but got 95 + on boards were being "less" qualified for admissions to specialty programs than students at other schools who were ranked 2 or 3 and received 92 on boards. This put students at UCSF and HArvard who were indeed more qualified than students at other schools at a dissadvantage. THe idea being that students at harvard and UCSF that are ranked 35 would be ranked 2 or 3 at any other school.

 

[aphistis]

THe idea being that students at harvard and UCSF that are ranked 35 would be ranked 2 or 3 at any other school.

This is so fantastically pretentious, it defies rational response. At some dental schools (clearly not these), dental education is about training to be a dentist, not exploring new & innovative ways to let everyone with deep enough pockets be an Ivy League valedictorian.

 

[cuneatus2]

This is so fantastically pretentious, it defies rational response. At some dental schools (clearly not these), dental education is about training to be a dentist, not exploring new & innovative ways to let everyone with deep enough pockets be an Ivy League valedictorian.

Deep enough pockets? Most of the students at those schools get their loans from the same institutions you do. I can think of a number of dental schools that cost just as much as, or even more, than the ivy schools. I just thank my lucky stars I was accepted to a state school. Still, doesn't it seem a bit pretentious to assume those at Ivy League schools automatically have deep pockets?

 

[Lemming]

This is so fantastically pretentious, it defies rational response. At some dental schools (clearly not these), dental education is about training to be a dentist, not exploring new & innovative ways to let everyone with deep enough pockets be an Ivy League valedictorian.

Don't get defensive and call out people who go to these schools. They are entitled to an opinion too. Also UCSF is a state school, don't need deep pockets.

 

[Lidopaine82]

Hey,

I was wondering about these schools who have pass/fail systems. I know schools such as Harvard, Columbia, UConn, and UCSF all do this. Does this mean there is no class ranking, or is there? It might seem like a dumb question, but I heard one individual say to another that they were under the impression that at some schools, they have pass/fail systems but still have a class ranking. Does anyone know if this is true, and if it's true, is it true at all of the dental schools using this system? I am especially interested in Harvard and UCSF!

it was never clearly explained here, but i think you still get percents on the exams. like 86% or whatever. the school sees what you got, but you just see that you passed. and while you might never know your rank, you'll know if you should give a specialty a shot. The school will then write you a LOR which will include your rank.

maybe someone else from case can explain it if they understand better.

 

[aphistis]

Deep enough pockets? Most of the students at those schools get their loans from the same institutions you do. I can think of a number of dental schools that cost just as much as, or even more, than the ivy schools. I just thank my lucky stars I was accepted to a state school. Still, doesn't it seem a bit pretentious to assume those at Ivy League schools automatically have deep pockets?

True enough. I retract my "deep pockets" comment with apology.

Don't get defensive and call out people who go to these schools. They are entitled to an opinion too. Also UCSF is a state school, don't need deep pockets.

I'm not calling out any individual in particular, and they're certainly entitled to any opinion they choose to hold--but claiming every student at your school is on equal footing with other schools' valedictorian & salutatorian students, simply because they're at your school, is plainly ridiculous. Without some objective data to back it up, the argument is nothing but hubris in its purest form.

 

[Mach band]

... At some dental schools (clearly not these), dental education is about training to be a dentist, not exploring new & innovative ways to let everyone with deep enough pockets be an Ivy League valedictorian.

Do you have any objective data to back up your statement?

 

[capisce?]

Trust me when I say that at some specialty programs applying from a program that is P/F without class rank can hurt you. I sat in my program director's office while he showed me a list of overly qualified people, some of which with great boards scores and everything else. He pointed to a group of them with no class rank, and said "how in the world am I supposed to guage these people against others with similar board scores but also with a high class rank.

The answer? We did not interview many people this year from programs that lacked a class rank.

Obviously this would vary per program and I doubt it's the sentiment at a majority of post-grad programs, but I'm sure it happens at quite a few.

 

[OMFS2B]

True enough. I retract my "deep pockets" comment with apology.



I'm not calling out any individual in particular, and they're certainly entitled to any opinion they choose to hold--but claiming every student at your school is on equal footing with other schools' valedictorian & salutatorian students, simply because they're at your school, is plainly ridiculous. Without some objective data to back it up, the argument is nothing but hubris in its purest form.

I don't agree 100% with DREDAY but look at the average GPA and DAT scores at people accepted at places like Harvard, UW and UCLA; the ADEA journal publishes them every year. They're generaly the top in the nation, which is further supported by their part I and II board averages.