Pass/Fail

[username456789]

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I would like to atone for my sins. In the past, I have trumpeted the merits of a true A/B/C/D/F grading system in medical school (or even an H/HP/P/F one), saying at worst there's no difference between these and P/F, and at best it's a great way to set yourself apart if you do well.

Well, as Step I studying looms overhead, I must say that I feel a little differently now. I'd love to be able to just put in what I need to to pass the exams (that is, study the big concepts and hammer the standardized stuff in review books) and be able to focus a little more on board prep. But, since my school has grading systems, and since I'm anal and don't want to lose my awesome GPA, I continue to hammer silly minutiae that will never see the light of day, save for one exam in this course, at the expense of reviewing some board material.

That is all.

 

[ChiDO]

Most P/F schools still use your overall %% for class rank, thus, you'd be putting in the effort no matter what. 🙂

I like the A/B/C system, makes me study harder, hopefully that pays off for the boards!

 

[MilkmanAl]

I don't really see the difference between the two. The common "less competitive atmosphere" rallying cry is a load of crap. This is med school. 90%+ of your class is competitive, regardless of where you are or how you're evaluated.

As you implied, the difference between getting a 95% and receiving an A and getting a 95% and passing is totally in your head. Get past that, and you'll be in good shape.

 

[Antibodies]

I don't really see the difference between the two. The common "less competitive atmosphere" rallying cry is a load of crap. This is med school. 90%+ of your class is competitive, regardless of where you are or how you're evaluated.

As you implied, the difference between getting a 95% and receiving an A and getting a 95% and passing is totally in your head. Get past that, and you'll be in good shape.

P=MD really takes a lot of pressure off. (A true P/F system, not one that secretly keeps track of your %)

 

[njbmd]

I would like to atone for my sins. In the past, I have trumpeted the merits of a true A/B/C/D/F grading system in medical school (or even an H/HP/P/F one), saying at worst there's no difference between these and P/F, and at best it's a great way to set yourself apart if you do well.

Well, as Step I studying looms overhead, I must say that I feel a little differently now. I'd love to be able to just put in what I need to to pass the exams (that is, study the big concepts and hammer the standardized stuff in review books) and be able to focus a little more on board prep. But, since my school has grading systems, and since I'm anal and don't want to lose my awesome GPA, I continue to hammer silly minutiae that will never see the light of day, save for one exam in this course, at the expense of reviewing some board material.

That is all.

You have Step I and you have your clinical grades to distinguish yourself. You will be surprised at how that "silly minutiae" shows up in pimp sessions with some attendings who will grade you on your knowledge of such "silly" stuff. Good luck as you "awesome" GPA isn't going to count as much as you clinical grades. Have a good third year!😉

 

[username456789]

I don't really see the difference between the two. The common "less competitive atmosphere" rallying cry is a load of crap. This is med school. 90%+ of your class is competitive, regardless of where you are or how you're evaluated.

As you implied, the difference between getting a 95% and receiving an A and getting a 95% and passing is totally in your head. Get past that, and you'll be in good shape.

It's not that I think my class would be any less competitive. Trust me, I've espoused plenty on the subject and I'm on the same side of the fence there with you.

What I'm saying is that, from a personal standpoint, I feel like if I wasn't so mentally hung up on continuing to honor all my preclinical courses, I might be able to focus a little more on shifting my focus to more of the "standardized" material that appears on boards, or at least devoting a little more time during the week to brushing up on some Step I topics. As it stands now, I don't find much time for that as I'm trying to master every little detail of the course notes.

That's all I'm saying. I realize med students are competitive *******s, regardless of the situation they're put in.

 

[FutureDoc4]

Okay, some one had to come to defend P/F... yes, at my school we are still ranked internally.. but guess what, it is still much less pressure/better system in my opinion. Why?

1) As implied, you can take the time to learn big picture and then move in on details that are important for an individual exam. Example? I read Daddy Robbins and Goljan for most of the block and then move into lecture notes right before the exam. Therefore, I memorize the little minutia that the lecturer wants you to know that is not even mentioned in Goljan and maybe has one line in Robbins (if that)... this way I can spend most of my time on important concepts rather than random B.S. (yes, there is random B.S. to memorize in medicine, and figuring out what is important and what isn't is sometimes half the battle).

2) We have P/F only for the first two years, and our clinical grades get weighed heavier in terms of AOA selection (I believe multiple schools do this). Making preclinical grades (internally) even less important.

3) The P/F system has allowed me to pursue other interests outside of the classroom. I am okay getting an 85 on an exam (because I didn't memorize all the lectures notes, which I would of forgetten the next day) and had a chance to puruse cases/research. I will have 2 case reports, 1 national conference poster, and 2 basic science pubs (obv not first author), at the end of these two years (and no, my undergrad did not connect to my med school).

So, please do not think that P/F doesn't offer benefits. It does, and I would NEVER want to be somewhere where I felt that I had to memorize random facts for a lecture (which I was going to forget soon after anway).

 

[CCLCMer]

My school is true P/F (no grades, no ranks, no AOA) for all five years, including the third year clerkships. It's less stressful in some ways, but it's probably more stressful in other ways. For example, I'm applying for away rotations at other schools, and I have to explain to people why my transcript is full of M's. (That stands for "meets expectations". We don't even use a regular P for pass. 🙄) Also, it puts a lot more pressure on you to kill the boards. Everyone studies hard for Step 1 whether or not they have grades, but I think I studied a lot more for Step 2 CK than students at a lot of other schools do. I could give you other examples, but you get the idea.

Anyway, GuyWhoDoesStuff, no system is perfect. There's a good reason why people always say the grass is greener on the other side! But it sounds like you are doing the right things to do well at your school, so just focus on that and don't waste your energy thinking "what if." Good luck with Step 1.

 

[engineeredout]

Most P/F schools still use your overall %% for class rank, thus, you'd be putting in the effort no matter what. 🙂

I like the A/B/C system, makes me study harder, hopefully that pays off for the boards!

Except the 88/89s I keep landing (90 is an A) are really starting to piss me off. Makes me with there was a +/- to go along with it.

 

[username456789]

Okay, some one had to come to defend P/F... yes, at my school we are still ranked internally.. but guess what, it is still much less pressure/better system in my opinion. Why?

1) As implied, you can take the time to learn big picture and then move in on details that are important for an individual exam. Example? I read Daddy Robbins and Goljan for most of the block and then move into lecture notes right before the exam. Therefore, I memorize the little minutia that the lecturer wants you to know that is not even mentioned in Goljan and maybe has one line in Robbins (if that)... this way I can spend most of my time on important concepts rather than random B.S. (yes, there is random B.S. to memorize in medicine, and figuring out what is important and what isn't is sometimes half the battle).

2) We have P/F only for the first two years, and our clinical grades get weighed heavier in terms of AOA selection (I believe multiple schools do this). Making preclinical grades (internally) even less important.

3) The P/F system has allowed me to pursue other interests outside of the classroom. I am okay getting an 85 on an exam (because I didn't memorize all the lectures notes, which I would of forgetten the next day) and had a chance to puruse cases/research. I will have 2 case reports, 1 national conference poster, and 2 basic science pubs (obv not first author), at the end of these two years (and no, my undergrad did not connect to my med school).

So, please do not think that P/F doesn't offer benefits. It does, and I would NEVER want to be somewhere where I felt that I had to memorize random facts for a lecture (which I was going to forget soon after anway).

😕😕😕

The very premise of this thread was "At this point I wish I went to a pass/fail school.

I'm very confused as to how this thread has evolved.

 

[FutureDoc4]

GuyWhoDoesStuff,

My commentary was not directed at you. It was directed at MilkmanAl, who claimed that the less competitive atmosphere "was a lot of crap". When in fact, I think it is true and that P/F has loads more benefits.

 

[MilkmanAl]

If you have a P/F school that doesn't rank you for the first two years, then sure, for those first 2 years, there are some advantages for M1 and 2. I still don't particularly buy that students won't compete with each other or destress because they can "just pass." Plus, you can still relax in an A/B/C/D/F curriculum just fine. Believe me, I do it. Prepare to have everyone ripping each other's eyes out come third year, since that's the only way you'll be able to get ranked. If it's P/F with rankings, where an 88 is worse than an 89, enjoy!

 

[riverjib]

*

 

[Mr hawkings]

Think back to pre-med. You are posting in a pre-allopathic forum, after all. I don't know when you took the MCAT, but I waited until NOW that I'm graduating. I have a 3.9+ GPA evenly distributed between pre-reqs, pharmacology, biochemistry, and history, philosophy, etc. My physics and orgo classes are so far behind me that I barely remember their purpose.

If you've done well as a medical student, it won't take much to jog your memory. I bet you'd do better on the MCAT (even now) than you think you'd do. Same goes for the USMLE. If you've been awake, and doing well overall, you're probably more ready than you think. Take a Kaplan course if you think you're in trouble. In my years in the medical field, many physicians have told me that Kaplan was the key to their success in exams.

Relax. You've gotten this far on your own merit. Work hard every day, because that is the key to succeeding as a physician. If you didn't belong here, you wouldn't be here. Just take an extra hour or two (or whatever you think is necessary) to study every day. Keep up the same determination you had in getting into medical school, and you'll do well.

You just confused me with your post

 

[turkeyjerky]

Think back to pre-med. You are posting in a pre-allopathic forum, after all. I don't know when you took the MCAT, but I waited until NOW that I'm graduating. I have a 3.9+ GPA evenly distributed between pre-reqs, pharmacology, biochemistry, and history, philosophy, etc. My physics and orgo classes are so far behind me that I barely remember their purpose.

If you've done well as a medical student, it won't take much to jog your memory. I bet you'd do better on the MCAT (even now) than you think you'd do. Same goes for the USMLE. If you've been awake, and doing well overall, you're probably more ready than you think. Take a Kaplan course if you think you're in trouble. In my years in the medical field, many physicians have told me that Kaplan was the key to their success in exams.

Relax. You've gotten this far on your own merit. Work hard every day, because that is the key to succeeding as a physician. If you didn't belong here, you wouldn't be here. Just take an extra hour or two (or whatever you think is necessary) to study every day. Keep up the same determination you had in getting into medical school, and you'll do well.

what an odd post

 

[illixir]

I agree that at lots of pass/fail schools, you're going to end up working hard anyways so that you've done well and have good rank.
Pass/fail preclinical when done right is really amazing though. The only reason competitiveness is low at my school is that there's no internal rankings, all tests are essays with meets expectations and does not meet expectations for grading(i.e. we never really receive any kind of number or value for our exams). I think small groups helps too b/c we have 50/50 curriculum; 2 hrs of lecture 3 days a week and then 2 hrs of small group 3 days a week, and then tons of time off for independent study. I think schools with so much lecture and not enough student cooperative activities promote a competitive mentality in students.

That said, students in classes above us have said third year is when you see everyone's true colors anyways where it counts since honors/high pass then and counts for AOA. But being able to study without worrying about tests(save step1) too much has been great.

 

[MossPoh]

I don't really see the difference between the two. The common "less competitive atmosphere" rallying cry is a load of crap. This is med school. 90%+ of your class is competitive, regardless of where you are or how you're evaluated.

As you implied, the difference between getting a 95% and receiving an A and getting a 95% and passing is totally in your head. Get past that, and you'll be in good shape.

Look up the medscape article that talks about it. Not really a load of crap. It increases cooperation between students, decreases stress and has no change in board scores. There is always competiveness but just the feeling of not stressing about being on academic probation, being called into an office for scoring below an 80% (my school), or any of the other things takes a lot of stress off. More than you'd expect.

 

[deleted116380]

If you have a P/F school that doesn't rank you for the first two years, then sure, for those first 2 years, there are some advantages for M1 and 2. I still don't particularly buy that students won't compete with each other or destress because they can "just pass." Plus, you can still relax in an A/B/C/D/F curriculum just fine. Believe me, I do it. Prepare to have everyone ripping each other's eyes out come third year, since that's the only way you'll be able to get ranked. If it's P/F with rankings, where an 88 is worse than an 89, enjoy!

I really couldn't care less how I do compared to my classmates. I just want to do internal medicine and am pretty happy going in cruise control right now in first year (I have an 80% right now in all my classes and probably around bottom 1/3 of the class). I'm just waiting til 3rd year when the fun stuff begins...

 

[plauto]

I really couldn't care less how I do compared to my classmates. I just want to do internal medicine and am pretty happy going in cruise control right now in first year (I have an 80% right now in all my classes and probably around bottom 1/3 of the class). I'm just waiting til 3rd year when the fun stuff begins...

or so you think....

 

[MilkmanAl]

I really couldn't care less how I do compared to my classmates. I just want to do internal medicine and am pretty happy going in cruise control right now in first year (I have an 80% right now in all my classes and probably around bottom 1/3 of the class). I'm just waiting til 3rd year when the fun stuff begins...

That's great and all, but it's everyone else you have to watch for when the **** hits the fan. If they're all scrambling for that plastics residency, you're just a speed bump.