Pass up DO seat to reapply for MD?

[mct2762]

I decided pretty early on in college to pursue a DO degree, for a few reasons. I took the MCAT and it sucked, but I knew it was good enough for DO school, which is what I wanted at the time, so I did not retake. I got in on my first cycle. I did not apply to any MD schools

Now I am about to start and I am beginning to worry. I know that, according to data, DO's match at a significantly lower rate to allo spots than DO's (for whatever reason). I'm not one of those pre med students who thinks they KNOW what they want to specialize in, but I do have a few interests, and one of them in particular requires a very competitive fellowship, which I know will be very very difficult to land as a DO.

Here are my stats:
-GPA: 3.89/3.92
-MCAT: low-mid 20's - took once - 6 in VR
-Shadowing: about 2,200 hours mostly ER ( I am a scribe) but have about 200 hours in various other specialties
-Research: Cancer research at SABR summer program at Texas Tech....2 year honors project at university
- Volunteering: 200 hours of volunteer at my church, 60 hours hospital volunteer, 10 hours Ronald McDonald House, 100 hours coaching summer swim team


So is it worth it to give up the spot, retake the MCAT (with no guarantee to improve), and gamble for an MD spot, or would it be better to make the best of the DO spot? I am asking solely for the purpose of residency/fellowship placement in the future, as I do have an actual interest in learning OMM and have no problem with the stigma that goes along with being a DO.

I feel like the MCAT was the only real weak spot in my application, albeit a giant weak spot. Verbal was my worst section, is there a good way to improve that?

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[Goro]

Bird in the hand is worth......?

DOs can match nicely... and it will only get easier with the AOA/ACGME merger. Do not make a very foolish mistake by thinking your MCAT will magically go up.

I decided pretty early on in college to pursue a DO degree, for a few reasons. I took the MCAT and it sucked, but I knew it was good enough for DO school, which is what I wanted at the time, so I did not retake. I got in on my first cycle. I did not apply to any MD schools

Now I am about to start and I am beginning to worry. I know that, according to data, DO's match at a significantly lower rate to allo spots than DO's (for whatever reason). I'm not one of those pre med students who thinks they KNOW what they want to specialize in, but I do have a few interests, and one of them in particular requires a very competitive fellowship, which I know will be very very difficult to land as a DO.

Here are my stats:
-GPA: 3.89/3.92
-MCAT: low-mid 20's - took once - 6 in VR
-Shadowing: about 2,200 hours mostly ER ( I am a scribe) but have about 200 hours in various other specialties
-Research: Cancer research at SABR summer program at Texas Tech....2 year honors project at university
- Volunteering: 200 hours of volunteer at my church, 60 hours hospital volunteer, 10 hours Ronald McDonald House, 100 hours coaching summer swim team


So is it worth it to give up the spot, retake the MCAT (with no guarantee to improve), and gamble for an MD spot, or would it be better to make the best of the DO spot? I am asking solely for the purpose of residency/fellowship placement in the future, as I do have an actual interest in learning OMM and have no problem with the stigma that goes along with being a DO.

I feel like the MCAT was the only real weak spot in my application, albeit a giant weak spot. Verbal was my worst section, is there a good way to improve that?

 

[mct2762]

Bird in the hand is worth......?

DOs can match nicely... and it will only get easier with the AOA/ACGME merger. Do not make a very foolish mistake by thinking your MCAT will magically go up.

Will it really get easier? The programs the have a bias now will still have the bias, and the programs that are just for DO's now will be flooded with FMG's and some US MD students (granted these programs will probably have a DO bias).

Haha id never heard the bird thing but looked it up. So very true.

 

[cliquesh]

Be realistic with yourself. How hard did you study for the mcat? Did you buy a single mcat prep book and then take the test? Or did you study for months, take a mcat prep course, do thousands of practice questions, and still ended up with a low 20s?

It might be worth reapplying if you realistically can get in the 30s. You will still likely get into a DO school next cycle, although maybe not the same ones you got into this time.

Also what competitive fellowship are you talking about?

Being a DO is bad if you want to do any of the surgical subspecialties (except for ortho and maybe ophthalmology), derm, and rad/onc.

 

[Goro]

If anything, the merger will make it harder, not easier, for FMGs to get residency slots. That movement was already stirring; the merger will only speed it up.

The merger will probably eliminate the requirement for DOs to take USMLE, but that's just my hunch.

Will it really get easier? The programs the have a bias now will still have the bias, and the programs that are just for DO's now will be flooded with FMG's and some US MD students (granted these programs will probably have a DO bias).

Haha id never heard the bird thing but looked it up. So very true.

 

[mct2762]

Be realistic with yourself. How hard did you study for the mcat? Did you buy a single mcat prep book and then take the test? Or did you study for months, take a mcat prep course, do thousands of practice questions, and still ended up with a low 20s?

It might be worth reapplying if you realistically can get in the 30s. You will still likely get into a DO school next cycle, although maybe not the same ones you got into this time.

Also what competitive fellowship are you talking about?

Being a DO is bad if you want to do any of the surgical subspecialties (except for ortho and maybe ophthalmology), derm, and rad/onc.

Peds surgery. Probably one of the hardest fellowships to land. It's not impossible, In fact, a DO matched to peds surg last year , but not likely. Actually, it's not likely for anyone to match it lol. There are so few spots. But it's that much harder as a DO. And like I said, I'm not convinced that I want to do it, but I don't want the door closed to me should I decide it is what I want to do.

I didn't study very much. I did some Kaplan books and took a few practice tests. I didn't study the right way. But I honestly don't know if I could raise the verbal, which was the biggest bust on my MCAT.

 

[cliquesh]

Peds surgery. Probably one of the hardest fellowships to land. It's not impossible, In fact, a DO matched to peds surg last year , but not likely. Actually, it's not likely for anyone to match it lol. There are so few spots. But it's that much harder as a DO. And like I said, I'm not convinced that I want to do it, but I don't want the door closed to me should I decide it is what I want to do.

I didn't study very much. I did some Kaplan books and took a few practice tests. I didn't study the right way. But I honestly don't know if I could raise the verbal, which was the biggest bust on my MCAT.

Yea, peds surg isn't going to happen as a DO. There was one DO who matched out of Christian's general surgery program recently, but they were the first DO in a long time. There is word on the street that the AOA is trying to start a peds fellowship, but I wouldn't count on it.

If you go to a DO school, you should probably assume peds surg isn't going to happen. Either accept that and go to a DO school or try the mcat one more time.

You could always do peds anesthesia, which isn't the same I know, but it's pretty cool and it's Do friendly, hah.

 

[Petypet]

Going into a school with a preconceived notion of a speciality is common, and almost invariably you will change your mind. It happens to everyone no matter how much we try and avoid it. Came in thinking EM EM EM, now its surg, EM, gas, radiology, who knows.

More importantly, a year postponed with no guarantee of a spot, is a year less of income and a year of a 5% (minimum) in tuition increase. There are only a handful of specialities that are near 100% unavailable to a DO, and honestly if you are borderline passing the MCAT, those specialities are likely out of your reach. Not calling you out individually, but statistically speaking, getting into the top 1% of specialities isn't easy with a history of poor test taking.

 

[mct2762]

Assume? No. But I'm not going to assume it's impossible either. I mean, how many DO's even apply to peds surg every year? This year only around 60 people applied for peds surg. 12 of those were non USMD....how many of those were DO? We don't know. It's such an obscure field, and MD applicants far outweigh DO applicants, so of course more MD's will be chosen. It's a numbers game.

Also, please help me with this if you know. I did a search for DO peds surgeons and found a few. However, none of them that I found (except one) went directly into peds surg after gen surg residency. Most if them did gen surg, then did a fellowship in something else (burn care, critical care etc), then did another fellowship. Does going that route make being a pediatric surgeon more attainable? And would I still have to a peds surgery fellowship in the End?

Yea, peds surg isn't going to happen as a DO. There was one DO who matched out of Christian's general surgery program recently, but they were the first DO in a long time. There is word on the street that the AOA is trying to start a peds fellowship, but I wouldn't count on it.

If you go to a DO school, you should probably assume peds surg isn't going to happen.[/QUOTE

 

[cliquesh]

Going into a school with a preconceived notion of a speciality is common, and almost invariably you will change your mind. It happens to everyone no matter how much we try and avoid it. Came in thinking EM EM EM, now its surg, EM, gas, radiology, who knows.

More importantly, a year postponed with no guarantee of a spot, is a year less of income and a year of a 5% (minimum) in tuition increase. There are only a handful of specialities that are near 100% unavailable to a DO, and honestly if you are borderline passing the MCAT, those specialities are likely out of your reach. Not calling you out individually, but statistically speaking, getting into the top 1% of specialities isn't easy with a history of poor test taking.

I don't think premeds should worry about opportunity costs. It's way better to end up in a field of medicine you actual enjoy then make a few 100k more because you started school a year or 2 earlier.

 

[Petypet]

I don't think premeds should worry about opportunity costs. It's way better to end up in a field of medicine you actual enjoy then make a few 100k more because you started school a year or 2 earlier.

I deferred a year, just to relax after my Ph.D. That cost me what, a minimum of 200k in salary, plus one year less retirement, plus 20% increase in tuition over 4 years. Thats not an insignificant opportunity cost for deferring/reapplying, on the whim that you think you enjoy a specific subspecialty. Many of my classmates are foolish about loans, if you do not take the investment portion of your education seriously from day one, you are in for a large financial burden in 15 years when you want to enjoy your family/life/attendings' salary.

 

[mct2762]

Going into a school with a preconceived notion of a speciality is common, and almost invariably you will change your mind. It happens to everyone no matter how much we try and avoid it. Came in thinking EM EM EM, now its surg, EM, gas, radiology, who knows.

More importantly, a year postponed with no guarantee of a spot, is a year less of income and a year of a 5% (minimum) in tuition increase. There are only a handful of specialities that are near 100% unavailable to a DO, and honestly if you are borderline passing the MCAT, those specialities are likely out of your reach. Not calling you out individually, but statistically speaking, getting into the top 1% of specialities isn't easy with a history of poor test taking.

Very true, and I appreciate your honesty. Are you at an MD or DO school?

I've heard the steps are very very different than the MCAT. I went to undergrad with someone that got a 21 on her MCAT. She went to a " low tier" DO school, and is now in an AOA derm residency. So I would imagine she had to kill her boards. It's not allo derm but it's still pretty dang hard to get into aoa derm. Maybe she is the exception, but I've heard from many many people that the steps are a lot different

 

[Petypet]

It isn't impossible to make a complete 180 in scores, but it is certainly not the norm. Anyhow, I am at a DO school, and I went here because I would be instate and the school has a history of very solid match lists. I passed up on several MD acceptances which would have been around another 150k in loans and burden on my family (I'm a non-trad).

 

[Elevencents]

Unless you know unequivocally you can score 10 points higher on the MCAT you're taking a HUGE risk. I'd say go DO.

 

[cliquesh]

Assume? No. But I'm not going to assume it's impossible either. I mean, how many DO's even apply to peds surg every year? This year only around 60 people applied for peds surg. 12 of those were non USMD....how many of those were DO? We don't know. It's such an obscure field, and MD applicants far outweigh DO applicants, so of course more MD's will be chosen. It's a numbers game.

Also, please help me with this if you know. I did a search for DO peds surgeons and found a few. However, none of them that I found (except one) went directly into peds surg after gen surg residency. Most if them did gen surg, then did a fellowship in something else (burn care, critical care etc), then did another fellowship. Does going that route make being a pediatric surgeon more attainable? And would I still have to a peds surgery fellowship in the End?

My knowledge of peds surg is limited and it mostly comes from a DO surgical resident I know who is hoping to do pediatric surgery. They were told it isn't going to happen, but they are still going to try.

You have to do a peds fellowship to be a peds surgeon. I don't know if that multiple fellowship route is common. The surgery forum would probably be a better place for this info, which I am sure you've already done.

I am still going to stick with my statement, though. You might end up being the rare snowflake who matches pediatric surgery, but it is not realistic. I'm not saying this to be a jerk. I just want you to have realistic expectations before committing to a DO school this year.

 

[mct2762]

Unless you know unequivocally you can score 10 points higher on the MCAT you're taking a HUGE risk. I'd say go DO.

why 10? The average MCAT in my state is a 30, with a few of the schools being at 29. I'm also a URM

 

[mct2762]

My knowledge of peds surg is limited and it mostly comes from a DO surgical resident I know who is hoping to do pediatric surgery. They were told it isn't going to happen, but they are still going to try.

You have to do a peds fellowship to be a peds surgeon. I don't know if that multiple fellowship route is common. The surgery forum would probably be a better place for this info, which I am sure you've already done.

I am still going to stick with my statement, though. You might end up being the rare snowflake who matches pediatric surgery, but it is not realistic. I'm not saying this to be a jerk. I just want you to have realistic expectations before committing to a DO school this year.

i appreciate your input!

 

[darklabel]

Have you started studying for the MCAT and are planning on taking it soon or will you wait another year for applying MD?

 

[mct2762]

Have you started studying for the MCAT and are planning on taking it soon or will you wait another year for applying MD?

I would likely have to wait to apply next cycle. By the time I studied and took it, it would be around September before my scores came back, and then I'm way late

 

[darklabel]

I'd say go for it. If you're in Texas then the tuition is very reasonable and you said that you didn't apply MD so you won't be a reapplicant. If you're ok with waiting 2 years, then give it a go. There are also still other DO schools you can apply to, but obviously you would burn the DO school you were accepted to. There are also additional dates throughout the year if you want more time to study.

 

[dyspareunia]

VR is the hardest section to improve in. Plus, I'm assuming "low-mid 20's" means <25, meaning your BS/PS scores weren't impressive either. Go to the DO school.

 

[mct2762]

I'd say go for it. If you're in Texas then the tuition is very reasonable and you said that you didn't apply MD so you won't be a reapplicant. If you're ok with waiting 2 years, then give it a go. There are also still other DO schools you can apply to, but obviously you would burn the DO school you were accepted to. There are also additional dates throughout the year if you want more time to study.

Well I did use the TMDSAS application to apply to TCOM (the DO school in Texas). Would I still not be considered a re-applicant? Are you MD or DO

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

I decided pretty early on in college to pursue a DO degree, for a few reasons. I took the MCAT and it sucked, but I knew it was good enough for DO school, which is what I wanted at the time, so I did not retake. I got in on my first cycle. I did not apply to any MD schools

Now I am about to start and I am beginning to worry. I know that, according to data, DO's match at a significantly lower rate to allo spots than DO's (for whatever reason). I'm not one of those pre med students who thinks they KNOW what they want to specialize in, but I do have a few interests, and one of them in particular requires a very competitive fellowship, which I know will be very very difficult to land as a DO.

Here are my stats:
-GPA: 3.89/3.92
-MCAT: low-mid 20's - took once - 6 in VR
-Shadowing: about 2,200 hours mostly ER ( I am a scribe) but have about 200 hours in various other specialties
-Research: Cancer research at SABR summer program at Texas Tech....2 year honors project at university
- Volunteering: 200 hours of volunteer at my church, 60 hours hospital volunteer, 10 hours Ronald McDonald House, 100 hours coaching summer swim team


So is it worth it to give up the spot, retake the MCAT (with no guarantee to improve), and gamble for an MD spot, or would it be better to make the best of the DO spot? I am asking solely for the purpose of residency/fellowship placement in the future, as I do have an actual interest in learning OMM and have no problem with the stigma that goes along with being a DO.

I feel like the MCAT was the only real weak spot in my application, albeit a giant weak spot. Verbal was my worst section, is there a good way to improve that?

Listen, I am going to be brutally honest, based on personal experience. First of all, let me preface my statement by saying that I am from Texas, and like you, I too, pretty much bombed verbal. I had nearly identical numbers to yours (3.9+ sGPA, 3.8+ cGPA - the volunteer stuff is pretty much the same and I was a scribe for over 2 years, which pretty much means nothing - you could have 10,000 hours of volunteer work at a hospital but still wont get an interview at a MD school if you have a shaky MCAT/GPA) and I got a 5 on verbal. I took the MCAT more than once, my scores improved in the sciences, but my verbal didn't budge. I only applied once, but when I did, NONE of the MD schools gave me a shot. I only interviewed at DO schools (including TCOM). My point is, I am pretty sure that most Texas schools have hard cutoff's at an 8 for verbal, and so, if you are going to retake, you had better make sure you can get above a 28+ MCAT and at least an 8 on verbal. On top of all that, some things to consider (and potential obstacles are)

1. IF you do better on the MCAT, how will you explain to schools your decision to postpone and reapply after already being accepted?
2. The process is only getting more competitive, and who knows, maybe you wont be afforded the same opportunity as a reapplicant -- ESPECIALLY IF, WORST CASE SCENARIO, you retake the MCAT, bomb verbal again, and now you have no acceptance to show for it. Now, you have to reapply, with schools now seeing that you were once accepted but you did not matriculate
3. the tuition increase, the lost salary of a year (or maybe more if your MCAT doesn't go well and you are forced to do a masters)-as someone state above

Also, no offense to you, but you aren't even a medical student yet and don't really know anything about medical education or the different specialties and what each specialty entails, because you actually had to rotate/perform some of the tasks during rotations (neither do I, I'm just a first year). My point being, it is foolish to postpone the process on the sheer fact that you think you want to this one specific specialty. Like someone said, people change their minds 10+ times. You might find that you hate surgery, for any number of reasons - the call, the demands of a 5 year surgical residency, the hours, you might suck at surgical procedures.. etc. etc.

For example - one of my buddies who is at an MD school in Texas who rocked boards was sure he wanted to do surgery. Throughout his first 3 year of medical school, his interests of specialty have changed from surgery > OBGYN > GI > Anesthesiology. Point being, you don't and won't have a clue what you want to do until you actually go through the process yourself and do rotations. Don't be stupid and give up this opportunity and make it harder for yourself.

Also, why ask for peoples opinion and then refuse to listen/believe their insight when they tell you how incredibly rare it is for DO's, or anyone for that matter, to match into a pediatric surgical specialty.

 

[DrBowtie]

The thing is time is not on your side. At the very least you are 9 years away, more realistically 11 (doing an academic 7 year GS) and even more likely tack on a year or two of post doc/sucking up because you didn't go to an elite program with good connections.

You'll either have to take time off at the back end if you definitely want to do peds surg or time now buffing your app and you may not even like peds surg in the end and wasted some time.

 

[dyspareunia]

Listen, I am going to be brutally honest, based on personal experience. First of all, let me preface my statement by saying that I am from Texas, and like you, I too, pretty much bombed verbal. I had nearly identical numbers to yours (3.9+ sGPA, 3.8+ cGPA - the volunteer stuff is pretty much the same and I was a scribe for over 2 years, which pretty much means nothing - you could have 10,000 hours of volunteer work at a hospital but still wont get an interview at a MD school if you have a shaky MCAT/GPA) and I got a 5 on verbal. I took the MCAT more than once, my scores improved in the sciences, but my verbal didn't budge. I only applied once, but when I did, NONE of the MD schools gave me a shot. I only interviewed at DO schools (including TCOM). My point is, I am pretty sure that most Texas schools have hard cutoff's at an 8 for verbal, and so, if you are going to retake, you had better make sure you can get above a 28+ MCAT and at least on verbal. On top of all that, some things to consider (and potential obstacles are)

1. IF you do better on the MCAT, how will you explain to schools your decision to postpone and reapply after already being accepted?
2. The process is only getting more competitive, and who knows, maybe you wont be afforded the same opportunity as a reapplicant -- ESPECIALLY IF, WORSE CASE scenario, you retake the MCAT, bomb verbal, and now you have no acceptance to show for it and you reapply, with schools now seeing that you were once accepted and did not matriculate
3. the tuition increase, the lost salary of a year (or maybe more if your MCAT doesn't go well and you are forced to do a masters)-as someone state above

Also, no offense to you, but you aren't even a medical student yet and don't really know anything about medical education or specialties (neither do I, I'm just a first year). My point being, it is foolish to postpone the process on the sheer fact that you think you want to this one-specific specialty. Like someone said, people change their minds 10+ times. You might find that you hate surgery, for a number of reasons - the call, the demands of a surgical residency, the hours, the sacrifices, you might suck at surgical procedures.. etc. etc.

For example - one of my buddies who is at an MD school in Texas who rocked boards was sure he wanted to do surgery. Throughout his first 3 year of medical school, his interests of specialty have change from surgery > OBGYN > GI > Anesthesiology. Point being, you don't and won't have a clue what you want to do until you actually go through the process yourself and do rotations. Don't be stupid and give up this opportunity and make it harder for yourself.

Also, why ask for peoples opinion and then refuse to listen/believe their insight when they tell you how incredibly rare it is for DO's, or anyone for that matter, to match into a pediatric surgical specialty.

1. Simple, he knew he could do better and wanted to go to a better school.
2. Valid.
3. There's no reason he would be forced into a masters program. If he does worse on his 2nd MCAT he would simply need to retake the MCAT again, do better, and apply. Even if he does a masters he would still need to retake the MCAT a third time. Masters would be pointless.

Besides that, I'm on board with what you're saying. Take any acceptance and run with it.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

1. Simple, he knew he could do better and wanted to go to a better school.
2. Valid.
3. There's no reason he would be forced into a masters program. If he does worse on his 2nd MCAT he would simply need to retake the MCAT again, do better, and apply. Even if he does a masters he would still need to retake the MCAT a third time. Masters would be pointless.

Besides that, I'm on board with what you're saying. Take any acceptance and run with it.

Maybe forced was a poor word choice, but, say that the OP doesn't improve on verbal, and even worse, maybe gets a lower score than the original MCAT score. Then what? What if the OP reapplies and doesn't get many or any interviews? Most people consider master's degrees to strengthen their credentials and show they have what it takes to survive graduate school. So, a lot of people consider this option when they are reapplicants. I wasn't implying that the OP would be FORCED, per say, just that more than likely he/she would be persuaded to pursue something like a master's if things didn't pan out ideally, as we mentioned above.

 

[dyspareunia]

Maybe forced was a poor word choice, but, say that the OP doesn't improve on verbal, and even worse, maybe gets a lower score than the original MCAT score. Then what? What if the OP reapplies and doesn't get many or any interviews? Most people consider master's degrees to strengthen their credentials and show they have what it takes to survive graduate school. So, a lot of people consider this option when they are reapplicants. I wasn't implying that the OP would be FORCED, per say, just that more than likely he/she would be persuaded to pursue something like a master's if things didn't pan out ideally, as we mentioned above.

If OP does worse on their 2nd MCAT, he will need to take the MCAT a third time regardless of if he chooses to do a masters. MS degrees are helpful mainly for non-science majors and people with low UG GPAs because it helps demonstrate your interest and ability to perform academically. The only thing that fixes a low MCAT is a better MCAT.

 

[Back 5]

OP has been making posts like this non-stop.

 

[mct2762]

Listen, I am going to be brutally honest, based on personal experience. First of all, let me preface my statement by saying that I am from Texas, and like you, I too, pretty much bombed verbal. I had nearly identical numbers to yours (3.9+ sGPA, 3.8+ cGPA - the volunteer stuff is pretty much the same and I was a scribe for over 2 years, which pretty much means nothing - you could have 10,000 hours of volunteer work at a hospital but still wont get an interview at a MD school if you have a shaky MCAT/GPA) and I got a 5 on verbal. I took the MCAT more than once, my scores improved in the sciences, but my verbal didn't budge. I only applied once, but when I did, NONE of the MD schools gave me a shot. I only interviewed at DO schools (including TCOM). My point is, I am pretty sure that most Texas schools have hard cutoff's at an 8 for verbal, and so, if you are going to retake, you had better make sure you can get above a 28+ MCAT and at least on verbal. On top of all that, some things to consider (and potential obstacles are)

1. IF you do better on the MCAT, how will you explain to schools your decision to postpone and reapply after already being accepted?
2. The process is only getting more competitive, and who knows, maybe you wont be afforded the same opportunity as a reapplicant -- ESPECIALLY IF, WORST CASE SCENARIO, you retake the MCAT, bomb verbal again, and now you have no acceptance to show for it. Now, you have to reapply, with schools now seeing that you were once accepted but you did not matriculate
3. the tuition increase, the lost salary of a year (or maybe more if your MCAT doesn't go well and you are forced to do a masters)-as someone state above

Also, no offense to you, but you aren't even a medical student yet and don't really know anything about medical education or the different specialties and what each specialty entails, because you actually had to rotate/perform some of the tasks during rotations (neither do I, I'm just a first year). My point being, it is foolish to postpone the process on the sheer fact that you think you want to this one specific specialty. Like someone said, people change their minds 10+ times. You might find that you hate surgery, for any number of reasons - the call, the demands of a 5 year surgical residency, the hours, you might suck at surgical procedures.. etc. etc.

For example - one of my buddies who is at an MD school in Texas who rocked boards was sure he wanted to do surgery. Throughout his first 3 year of medical school, his interests of specialty have changed from surgery > OBGYN > GI > Anesthesiology. Point being, you don't and won't have a clue what you want to do until you actually go through the process yourself and do rotations. Don't be stupid and give up this opportunity and make it harder for yourself.

Also, why ask for peoples opinion and then refuse to listen/believe their insight when they tell you how incredibly rare it is for DO's, or anyone for that matter, to match into a pediatric surgical specialty.

If you read my posts, you will see that I said I have no idea what I want to do, but that this is one of my interests. I never claimed to be an expert on "medical education". What I AM saying, is that I am worried that IF I decided to do peds surg, going to a DO school will prevent me from doing that. Shooting myself in the foot from the get go. That's all I want to prevent. I have no idea what I will end up in, but I want to have the opportunity to do anything I should decide.

Also, I'm not trying to argue with them. I'm just saying it isn't impossible. Likely, no. impossible, also no

 

[Jjkwest1]

If OP decides to turn down the DO acceptance, wouldn't that basically burn bridges for basically all DO schools instead of just that one school she rejected?

Besides, if you're not sure you want to go for the DO acceptance turn it down and let someone who would die for one get it. Just improve your MCAT (easier said than done) and apply for MD. Just know the risk involved.

 

[mct2762]

OP has been making posts like this non-stop.

ive never made a thread asking this question.....

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

If you're insecure of the degree or have doubts about how much success can be found as a DO, go ahead and re-apply. People that go into Osteopathic Medicine need to feel secure that they won't have the regret of not reapplying in MD. One day something will happen because you're a DO, and you don't want to start getting regrets as your career is ongoing and you have to worry about more important things.

 

[Petypet]

If you read my posts, you will see that I said I have no idea what I want to do, but that this is one of my interests. I never claimed to be an expert on "medical education". What I AM saying, is that I am worried that IF I decided to do peds surg, going to a DO school will prevent me from doing that. Shooting myself in the foot from the get go. That's all I want to prevent. I have no idea what I will end up in, but I want to have the opportunity to do anything I should decide.

Also, I'm not trying to argue with them. I'm just saying it isn't impossible. Likely, no. impossible, also no

Ignore the hostility and just listen to those giving advice, not glaring down from the ivory tower.

You are also shooting yourself in the foot by turning down an acceptance without a guarantee of a future acceptance. Best case scenario, you get a 34 on MCAT and you shut everyone up. Worst case, you are a re-applicant with a 27 mcat, and since you turned down a seat at a DO school, you may no longer get in there, and you would be noncompetitive at any MD school. That said, if you only got into 1 DO school, reapplying to more DO schools next year with only a minor bump in MCAT would still be a challenging process. The med school application is a numbers game, and each year the numbers get harder and harder to compete with.

 

[Jjkwest1]

If you read my posts, you will see that I said I have no idea what I want to do, but that this is one of my interests. I never claimed to be an expert on "medical education". What I AM saying, is that I am worried that IF I decided to do peds surg, going to a DO school will prevent me from doing that. Shooting myself in the foot from the get go. That's all I want to prevent. I have no idea what I will end up in, but I want to have the opportunity to do anything I should decide.

Also, I'm not trying to argue with them. I'm just saying it isn't impossible. Likely, no. impossible, also no

IMHO, shooting yourself in the foot would be declining your acceptance, and then doing the same if not worst on your mcat, and basically being out of options. But everything you do in life is a gamble. Go with your gut here.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

If you read my posts, you will see that I said I have no idea what I want to do, but that this is one of my interests. I never claimed to be an expert on "medical education". What I AM saying, is that I am worried that IF I decided to do peds surg, going to a DO school will prevent me from doing that. Shooting myself in the foot from the get go. That's all I want to prevent. I have no idea what I will end up in, but I want to have the opportunity to do anything I should decide.

Also, I'm not trying to argue with them. I'm just saying it isn't impossible. Likely, no. impossible, also no

well it is one hell of an interest if it is making your seriously consider declining an acceptance, restudying and retaking the MCAT, and going through the entire application process again.

Regardless, I would advise you to take the acceptance and run with it. TCOM is a good school with CHEAP tuition (compared to other schools) and amazing rotations. It is one of the few DO schools where there are many close, accessible rotations nearby (most DO schools don't even have their own teaching hospitals or affiliated hospitals). SO, like dyspareunia mentioned - take the acceptance and run. Good luck.

 

[mct2762]

well it is one hell of an interest if it is making your seriously consider declining an acceptance, restudying and retaking the MCAT, and going through the entire application process again.

Regardless, I would advise you to take the acceptance and run with it. TCOM is a good school with CHEAP tuition (compared to other schools) and amazing rotations. It is one of the few DO schools where there are many close, accessible rotations nearby (most DO schools don't even have their own teaching hospitals or affiliated hospitals). SO, like dyspareunia mentioned - take the acceptance and run. Good luck.

i am not matriculating at TCOM, but thanks for the advice

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

i am not matriculating at TCOM, but thanks for the advice

Ok, well then, regardless, take the acceptance. And if not, good luck anyway.

 

[mct2762]

Ignore the hostility and just listen to those giving advice, not glaring down from the ivory tower.

You are also shooting yourself in the foot by turning down an acceptance without a guarantee of a future acceptance. Best case scenario, you get a 34 on MCAT and you shut everyone up. Worst case, you are a re-applicant with a 27 mcat, and since you turned down a seat at a DO school, you may no longer get in there, and you would be noncompetitive at any MD school. That said, if you only got into 1 DO school, reapplying to more DO schools next year with only a minor bump in MCAT would still be a challenging process. The med school application is a numbers game, and each year the numbers get harder and harder to compete with.

yeah for sure...its a gamble either way. Thanks for your advice

 

[Petypet]

yeah for sure...its a gamble either way. Thanks for your advice

Its not really a gamble either way. There are like 3 or 4 fellowships/specialities that are frequently not sought after in the DO world. There are 40+ specialities and even more fellowships available to DOs and MDs (https://services.aamc.org/eras/erasstats/par/index.cfm).

 

[mct2762]

Its not really a gamble either way. There are like 3 or 4 fellowships/specialities that are frequently not sought after in the DO world. There are 40+ specialities and even more fellowships available to DOs and MDs (https://services.aamc.org/eras/erasstats/par/index.cfm).

no, I meant attempting peds surg as a DO is a gamble, and giving up my current seat to try for an MD seat is also a gamble

 

[studentp0x]

Going into a school with a preconceived notion of a speciality is common, and almost invariably you will change your mind. It happens to everyone no matter how much we try and avoid it. Came in thinking EM EM EM, now its surg, EM, gas, radiology, who knows.

More importantly, a year postponed with no guarantee of a spot, is a year less of income and a year of a 5% (minimum) in tuition increase. There are only a handful of specialities that are near 100% unavailable to a DO, and honestly if you are borderline passing the MCAT, those specialities are likely out of your reach. Not calling you out individually, but statistically speaking, getting into the top 1% of specialities isn't easy with a history of poor test taking.

Probably the best piece of advice given. Unless you only studied a little for the mcat why do you expect to be able to dominate step 1? The MD may open the first door, but your USMLE performance will be what really opens the next door.

 

[Petypet]

Truth be told, getting a desired speciality isn't a gamble. Its hard work, preparation, and determination. Most med students don't put in the time early to figure out what they want, and maybe you have. I know if I want to do acute care surgery, it behooves me to get 600/240 comlex/step1, get a few publications, goto programs that give me said experience, etc.

I look at my peers and some have no idea what they want, kinda half-a$$ed first few years, etc. Those are the people that gamble. If you are 100% certain you want this, you know what you need to do (spent more than a few hours watching ped surg on youtube). If you are 100% you want to be a physician, and are ok with one of the other 40 then rock out and goto med school next year!

 

[mct2762]

Probably the best piece of advice given. Unless you only studied a little for the mcat why do you expect to be able to dominate step 1? The MD may open the first door, but your USMLE performance will be what really opens the next door.

I didnt study properly for the MCAT. But even so, I've heard the USMLE tests a completely different set of skills. but i have no idea, just going off what I've been told

 

[mct2762]

Truth be told, getting a desired speciality isn't a gamble. Its hard work, preparation, and determination. Most med students don't put in the time early to figure out what they want, and maybe you have. I know if I want to do acute care surgery, it behooves me to get 600/240 comlex/step1, get a few publications, goto programs that give me said experience, etc.

I look at my peers and some have no idea what they want, kinda half-a$$ed first few years, etc. Those are the people that gamble. If you are 100% certain you want this, you know what you need to do (spent more than a few hours watching ped surg on youtube). If you are 100% you want to be a physician, and are ok with one of the other 40 then rock out and goto med school next year!

yeah my other interests (as of now) are: peds ER, peds oncology, or possible obgyn....all three of those are very attainable as a DO!

 

[Petypet]

yeah my other interests (as of now) are: peds ER, peds oncology, or possible obgyn....all three of those are very attainable as a DO!

yup, those are on my list too! lol

I didnt study properly for the MCAT. But even so, I've heard the USMLE tests a completely different set of skills. but i have no idea, just going off what I've been told

Its true, completely different tests. Its not the test though, its the test taker. Certainly there are plenty of people that do well on one, and poorly on the other. Its the student's study habits, dedication, etc, more so than the actual test.

 

[michow87]

If I were you, I would retake the MCAT and reapply to both MD and DO. Unlike your GPA, your MCAT is easy to improve if you put in the proper work. This is what I would have done if I were in your position during the application process. Unfortunately for me, I knew that no MCAT score would make an MD school look beyond my 3.0 cGPA/sGPA. Also I'm from California so there's that.

Like everyone said, the most competitive specialties are difficult to obtain regardless, however there will be less hoops and hurdles to jump through to have a chance. Retake your MCAT. You won't regret it (unless you half-ass it and do worse.)

Note: If you do decide to retake your MCAT, I recommend reading 2-3 articles from the Economist daily. Their article style is similar to the Verbal Passages and it helped me bump my verbal score 5 points on my practice exams.

 

[cliquesh]

I didnt study properly for the MCAT. But even so, I've heard the USMLE tests a completely different set of skills. but i have no idea, just going off what I've been told

Word. I got a 30 on the mcat and in the 250s on the usmle. If they were directly correlated I should have gotten around a 225.

I, admittedly, did not study very hard for the mcat, and I studied a lot for the usmle.

 

[Roxas]

Even if you take the risk of reapplying for MD, you aren't guaranteed ****. Given your mcat it is more likely than not that you won't do well enough on the boards for competitive specialties anyway.

 

[mct2762]

Word. I got a 30 on the mcat and in the 250s on the usmle. If they were directly correlated I should have gotten around a 225.

I, admittedly, did not study very hard for the mcat, and I studied a lot for the usmle.

are you an MD?

 

[mct2762]

Even if you take the risk of reapplying for MD, you aren't guaranteed ****. Given you mcat it is more likely than not that you won't do well enough on the boards for competitive specialties anyway.

not true at all. read up, and have a good day