Passion and Hunger

[Virgil]

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Preface: This is going to be a very subjective thread. I welcome all constructive criticism.

I acknowledge that becoming a doctor is a wonderful thing--you are licensed to help needy people with a privileged skill that earns you a decent living and respect. Once you are accepted to medical school, moreover, you are essentially "guaranteed" to at least attain the title of doctor (but not necessarily, of course, but there is a low rate of attrition). And once you are done with the long years of schooling, you are generally guaranteed a stable income.

I may be wrong, and this list may be overly simplified, but this is what I have noticed the last couple years in undergrad: I find that the people who do best in the endeavor of becoming a doctor are those who are "hungry" (lived in dirt-poor conditions their entire lives; experienced supporting themselves with the minimum wage, etc.), those who have passion (pictures of microorganisms on their myspaces), or both. I possess neither. I do not loathe what the doctor does, nor do I loathe the sciences which must be learnt to be proficient in practice, but I do not have a "passion" for them. I grew up as a doctor's son and never had to experience any sort of hunger as everything was provided for me. As I am essentially living the life of a doctor (as provided by my father), which people here are striving for, I feel as if I have no drive to "do better."

As such, although I am intelligent (thank God), I have a poor work ethic and my GPA is dying. This may be a naive question, but is there a way to build passion? Is there a way of building this "hunger," or drive to improve my life, without forsaking the blessing of having parents who are happy to provide for me? Am I terribly misguided? Can someone help me?

A final question I have is that most premeds have never really experienced what it is to be a doctor--you have never been to medical school and you have never been a practicing physician. So how can you have such great passion for something you have never experienced? I am not questioning your motives but I simply want some insight so I can attain your level of passion and dedication.

I know this thread is long, so I really appreciate anyone who will take the time to answer. Thank you in advance.

 

[Eric Lindros]

This is a legitimate concern.

I guess this is the way I think about it. I think about the actual job itself. When I ask myself why I am excited to become a doctor, I picture walking into my first day of anatomy and experiencing something totally new and that excits me. I picture walking into that hospital and seeing patients who have some sort of problem, minor of life threatning, and I picture working through that problem and giving them some sort of satisfaction. I picture carrying a stethescope, wearing scrubs, working with nurses. I just picture it all in my head and it excites me - a lot.

Nobody in my family has ever been a doctor, but I am far from having a poor, struggling past. I grew up very comfortably and I am ok with that because being a doctor still really excites me.

 

[FLsurf05]

Is there something else that you are passionate about? Would you rather force yourself to become passionate about medicine, or would you rather find some other career that you are actually passionate about? I'm not saying you have to be some gushing, uber-science person in order to pursue medicine, but becoming a doctor is hard enough that, in my opinion, you have to really want to do it to make it through. It kind of sounds like you don't want to be a doctor, so why don't you pursue something else? There are tons of cool jobs out there, and I'm sure you can find something you can be passionate about.

Of course, if you do want to pursue medicine you could try volunteering or something. That would allow you to put yourself in a medical setting and help you get excited about doctoring.

Good luck.

 

[mdvargas]

Preface: This is going to be a very subjective thread. I welcome all constructive criticism.

I acknowledge that becoming a doctor is a wonderful thing--you are licensed to help needy people with a privileged skill that earns you a decent living and respect. Once you are accepted to medical school, moreover, you are essentially "guaranteed" to at least attain the title of doctor (but not necessarily, of course, but there is a low rate of attrition). And once you are done with the long years of schooling, you are generally guaranteed a stable income.

I may be wrong, and this list may be overly simplified, but this is what I have noticed the last couple years in undergrad: I find that the people who do best in the endeavor of becoming a doctor are those who are "hungry" (lived in dirt-poor conditions their entire lives; experienced supporting themselves with the minimum wage, etc.), those who have passion (pictures of microorganisms on their myspaces), or both. I possess neither. I do not loathe what the doctor does, nor do I loathe the sciences which must be learnt to be proficient in practice, but I do not have a "passion" for them. I grew up as a doctor's son and never had to experience any sort of hunger as everything was provided for me. As I am essentially living the life of a doctor (as provided by my father), which people here are striving for, I feel as if I have no drive to "do better."

As such, although I am intelligent (thank God), I have a poor work ethic and my GPA is dying. This may be a naive question, but is there a way to build passion? Is there a way of building this "hunger," or drive to improve my life, without forsaking the blessing of having parents who are happy to provide for me? Am I terribly misguided? Can someone help me?

A final question I have is that most premeds have never really experienced what it is to be a doctor--you have never been to medical school and you have never been a practicing physician. So how can you have such great passion for something you have never experienced? I am not questioning your motives but I simply want some insight so I can attain your level of passion and dedication.

I know this thread is long, so I really appreciate anyone who will take the time to answer. Thank you in advance.

I think "passion" is cultivated when we give in our effort, hard work, hopes, etc. into something (or reward) that is important to us and can integrate satisfactorily in our lives, and for most of us that something is an acceptance letter from med school. Your lack of passion, in my opinion, may be because you haven't really need to make sacrifices for anything, coming from financially stable parents is a factor. I'm worried you're going into medicine with no enthusiasm, are you doing it because your dad is a doc? And darling, no one knows what is like to be a doctor until we're actually doctors; becoming one is a process where many are weeded out - most who make it to matriculation know what's coming. This may sound too spiritual, but you need to "find yourself". There must be something that is valuable to you and/or gets your engine going. I just think you're looking in the wrong direction right now...

 

[Virgil]

I think "passion" is cultivated when we give in our effort, hard work, hopes, etc. into something (or reward) that is important to us and can integrate satisfactorily in our lives, and for most of us that something is an acceptance letter from med school. Your lack of passion, in my opinion, may be because you haven't really need to make sacrifices for anything, coming from financially stable parents is a factor. I'm worried you're going into medicine with no enthusiasm, are you doing it because your dad is a doc? And darling, no one knows what is like to be a doctor until we're actually doctors; becoming one is a process where many are weeded out - most who make it to matriculation know what's coming. This may sound too spiritual, but you need to "find yourself". There must be something that is valuable to you and/or gets your engine going. I just think you're looking in the wrong direction right now...

Something I have noticed from reading the allopathic board and talking to doctors is that oftentimes, the passion for medicine runs out due to the problems that doctors are prone to face (the hours, insurance companies, ungrateful patients--I'm sure you're familliar with the not-so-glamorous side of medicine).

Let me provide a parable. It's somewhat like marriage--at first, the passion is strong but after a while it usually dwindles (I have actually seen a study which supports this). So if you are left with someone who you do not respect as a human being, and the only reason you married this individual was because of the strong passion that existed between you, the marriage may end up in divorce. In this day and age, when people are told to follow their hearts, I speculate this may be a contributing reason for why the divorce rate is so high.

I think this is similar to choosing a career path. I think passion is a great thing to have but when it runs out, I do not want to be stuck doing something that earns me a modest amount of money and little respect. What are your thoughts?

 

[kevster2001]

whtaever, if you're smart and think you'd be good at medicine then just do it. dont let the passionfreaks drive you away.

 

[8744]

Preface: This is going to be a very subjective thread. I welcome all constructive criticism.

I acknowledge that becoming a doctor is a wonderful thing--you are licensed to *** needy people with a ********** skill that earns you a decent living and respect. Once you are accepted to medical school, moreover, you are essentially "guaranteed" to at least attain the title of doctor (but not necessarily, of course, but there is a low rate of attrition). And once you are done with the long years of schooling, you are generally guaranteed a stable income.

I may be wrong, and this list may be overly simplified, but this is what I have noticed the last couple years in undergrad: I find that the people who do best in the endeavor of becoming a doctor are those who are "hungry" (lived in dirt-poor conditions their entire lives; experienced supporting themselves with the minimum wage, etc.), those who have ******* (pictures of microorganisms on their myspaces), or both. I possess neither. I do not loathe what the doctor does, nor do I loathe the sciences which must be learnt to be proficient in practice, but I do not have a "*******" for them. I grew up as a doctor's son and never had to experience any sort of hunger as everything was provided for me. As I am essentially living the life of a doctor (as provided by my father), which people here are striving for, I feel as if I have no drive to "do better."

As such, although I am intelligent (thank God), I have a poor work ethic and my GPA is dying. This may be a naive question, but is there a way to build ******? Is there a way of building this "******," or drive to improve my life, without forsaking the blessing of having parents who are happy to provide for me? Am I terribly misguided? Can someone help me?

A final question I have is that most premeds have never really experienced what it is to be a doctor--you have never been to medical school and you have never been a practicing physician. So how can you have such great ****** for something you have never experienced? I am not questioning your motives but I simply want some insight so I can attain your level of ****** and dedication.

I know this thread is long, so I really appreciate anyone who will take the time to answer. Thank you in advance.

Your observational powers are faulty. There are all kinds of people in medical school and they all (well, mostly) work hard at it.

Screw passion. And words like "attain."

You're not applying for a job as the Pope. Just do the best you can, apply, and if you get in then work hard. And don't apologize for never having to have suffered in life. Neither have the majority of people on SDN.

"Hunger." I have no idea how anybody just out of high school can legitmately "hunger" for anything unless it is chicks or beer. Print this thread. Put it away someplace safe. Open it when you are a resident and you are going to laugh and quickly shred it lest any of your friends see what a complete ***** you once were.

For your information, no pre-med, not most, has ever experienced what it's like to be a physician. Don't obsess over it. If I had known what it was going to be like to be a resident I probably wouldn't have done it. Now that I have though I'm glad I did.

You only need passion for the application process. Once you're in it's just a grind. Eventually the only thing that will keep you motivated is your interest in a particular specialty, fear of quitting after incurring so much debt, or the prospect of finally making decent money at an OK but not spectacular job. Passion has got nothing to do with it. All you'll be passionate about after a week of intern year is getting a day off.

Oh, and if you want the unvarnished truth about what one particular corner of the medical world is like, a little place I like to call the "Pandaverse," then read my blog. Don't forget to check out the archives. Much free advice (worth every penny) and a good gestalt of medical school and residency.

 

[8744]

This is a legitimate concern.

I guess this is the way I think about it. I think about the actual job itself. When I ask myself why I am excited to become a doctor, I picture walking into my first day of anatomy and experiencing something totally new and that excits me. I picture walking into that hospital and seeing patients who have some sort of problem, minor of life threatning, and I picture working through that problem and giving them some sort of satisfaction. I picture carrying a stethescope, wearing scrubs, working with nurses. I just picture it all in my head and it excites me - a lot.

Nobody in my family has ever been a doctor, but I am far from having a poor, struggling past. I grew up very comfortably and I am ok with that because being a doctor still really excites me.

You know, Eric, you're not far off from the truth of what's cool about this job.

 

[KaraKiz]

Virgil,
It sounds like you are pretty conflicted. I can understand how you feel about not lacking the desire to do better since you had a privilaged background. But hope is not lost! You still can find your passion. It may not be medicine, from the sound of it, but don't mistake not wanting to be a doctor as not having passion. We all have a passion. If you aren't so hot about being a doctor and are stuck in pre-med classes or in a pre-med major, that may be why you aren't interested in your classes and feel like you are losing your motivation.

I can't stress how important I think it is for you to get clinical experience. The bottom line is you're going to have to deal with a lot of crap to be a doctor. If your heart isn't in it 100%, you may end up bitter or feel like it all wasn't worth it. If you work in a clinical setting, and you don't like it, there's your answer. I don't think there is a better way to find out. If you don't like the clinic, find something else you are interested in and do that (like intern at a law firm).

I'll be honest - I worked in a ER for over a year, and I've worked with some doctors who seem to have lost their passion, or to have not had any at all. They treat their patients like a case file. Two of them were the children of doctors who went to med school probably because they could, they had someone to pay for it, and maybe it was a profession that was expected of them. It just didn't seem like their hearts were in it and they were both huge jerks with chips on their shoulders. It just seemed to me from talking to them that they did it b/c they were expected to and they were smart enough to get into med school. (I've also known other doctors who had physician parents and they were great doctors.)

Your background works to your advantage. Since you don't have to worry about money, you can volunteer. I'm sure there are many organizations you could get involved in that really need people who have a little extra time and effort to give. Just find something you are interested in. Maybe get a part-time job to keep yourself busy.

Whatever you end up doing in life, you need a way to make yourself stand out. For some people, its their struggle to be successful. For others, its their committment to their communities. You don't want to be another kid who got through college with an ok GPA and didn't really do much else during those 4 years. There are a lot of kids who do that. If you don't know what your passion is, you just have to find it! Thats a hard thing for most students to do, but thats what the college experience is all about.

I just ask that you open your mind to other possibilities. Don't make yourself like medicine. Do find something that excites you and would make you want to go to work.

Hope this helps.

 

[braluk]

This is an excellent post. For me, at least now, the passion to pursue medicine is being the first in my family to graduate High school, and understanding that I embody their, and my dreams. For others, even if they have a legacy of becoming doctors, their passion for entering medicine, may not have anything to do with their family, and alot on their own desires. Different strokes for different folks. I just can't explain it. It's akin to when an interviewer may ask you, "why do you want to become a doctor?". There's no real, specific answer that one may garner to answer such a loaded question- alot of it is instinctual and a type of feeling you get while working in medicine (shadowing, research, etc..). I suppose this is similar to marriage in the sense that, when asked why you love somebody, no words can really prescribe a proper response. In many ways, going into medicine is very similar to getting married, save a few differences. However, there's no real way to force passion out of yourself for a career you will spend your entire life doing. This is why there is a high divorce/suicide/drug abuse rate in the profession, the pressure mounts, and if, from day 1, the drive and passion isn't there, you'll slowly grow to find that your eyes will dart to other professions, but will often be held back, because you may feel that "you are at the point of no return" (which is always untrue of course). That said, if you don't find passion or desire to go into medicine now, something which may be helpful, is to take a year or so to look outside of medicine for other career options (for me, anything dynamic, such as traveling to other countries, etc. etc. is also enticing should I find out that medicine is not my thing). That way, you can really tell if you'll be happy doing other things, or not. It's sort of like that proverb- You cannot see light, until you see dark, and vice versa. Experiencing something new may be helpful in deciding what you may want to do. For a fortunate few, this came in college, or right after college, while for a few others, this comes even while in medical school or as a resident, or a practicing doctor. How you act upon your own instincts is up to you.

 

[8744]

duplicate

 

[8744]

Besides, there's a certain level of prosperity beyond which it doesn't matter. I had a middle-class upbringing but we were in no way poor and other than not getting everyting I wanted all the time, we always had a good home, good food, and responsible and excellent parents. I was never deprived or denied any opportunities.

So don't obsess about your background. No doubt someone living in the slums who makes someting of themselves has "bragging rights" over most of us but middle class children do not have hard lives, most of us are middle class, and it's nothing to be ashamed of if you come from a rich family. The level of wealth beyond which you can get a free ride in life is well, well beyond what your father probably makes.

 

[8744]

If everybody is so goddam passionate how come everybody complains when they work long hours. If something is your passion, you never tire of it. I can sit on the couch and watch all three of the Lord of the Rings movies (the extended versions). That's passion.

 

[mdvargas]

Something I have noticed from reading the allopathic board and talking to doctors is that oftentimes, the passion for medicine runs out due to the problems that doctors are prone to face (the hours, insurance companies, ungrateful patients--I'm sure you're familliar with the not-so-glamorous side of medicine).

Let me provide a parable. It's somewhat like marriage--at first, the passion is strong but after a while it usually dwindles (I have actually seen a study which supports this). So if you are left with someone who you do not respect as a human being, and the only reason you married this individual was because of the strong passion that existed between you, the marriage may end up in divorce. In this day and age, when people are told to follow their hearts, I speculate this may be a contributing reason for why the divorce rate is so high.

I think this is similar to choosing a career path. I think passion is a great thing to have but when it runs out, I do not want to be stuck doing something that earns me a modest amount of money and little respect. What are your thoughts?

The marriage example is good. But these people can love again and the desire to find another partner for that "passion" experience can still exist (I guess in another words, it's a transformation rather than cessation). And like marriage, careers have its negatives too. The troubles of the medical field you mentioned above is the price to pay for job stability, good pay, intellectual challenge for some, the feeling that you're doing something for society, etc. My present passion is medicine and I'm aware of the con's, but it doesn't stop me from pursuing a medical education and eventually use it. It's all in keeping balance, my defect it's probably focusing a lot more on the positive.

 

[Eric Lindros]

You know, Eric, you're not far off from the truth of what's cool about this job.

And I am definitely prepared to feel the effects of the bull**** that comes along with this job, espcially after spending time on the internet, research, and reading blogs like yours. I'm glad I do these things because I feel a little more prepared about the reality of medicine (although I don't think I will ever truely realize it until I get there, so in that aspect I will never be fully prepared)

But as far as having a passion for it now? I don't think anyone can really have a passion based on anything except the small things that we do know about life in medicine. What we see on TV, what we experience at a volunteering job, what we learn in college, read on the internet.....I know they all can be such an incredibily deceptive motivation for this career. But what else do we really have to go on?

Sure it's a risk but then again, everything is a risk. All I know is right now I am working as an engineer right out of college and I am not into it. Life is easy, I am making money, and I don't really work all that hard, but I still sit here with a burning desire to go to medical school and be a doctor. Hell I can't even really explain it to tell you the truth. Maybe it's just something you either have or you don't

Anyway OP, I wish I could help you find this desire. Don't get me wrong, mine is not absolutely burning so badly that I would not live with myself otherwise....I just know right now it's what I want to do.

 

[braluk]

If everybody is so goddam passionate how come everybody complains when they work long hours. If something is your passion, you never tire of it. I can sit on the couch and watch all three of the Lord of the Rings movies (the extended versions). That's passion.

haha funny you mention that, i just finished watching return of the king like 5 minutes ago.

 

[braluk]

And I am definitely prepared to feel the effects of the bull**** that comes along with this job, espcially after spending time on the internet, research, and reading blogs like yours. I'm glad I do these things because I feel a little more prepared about the reality of medicine (although I don't think I will ever truely realize it until I get there, so in that aspect I will never be fully prepared)

But as far as having a passion for it now? I don't think anyone can really have a passion based on anything except the small things that we do know about life in medicine. What we see on TV, what we experience at a volunteering job, what we learn in college, read on the internet.....I know they all can be such an incredibily deceptive motivation for this career. But what else do we really have to go on?

Sure it's a risk but then again, everything is a risk. All I know is right now I am working as an engineer right out of college and I am not into it. Life is easy, I am making money, and I don't really work all that hard, but I still sit here with a burning desire to go to medical school and be a doctor. Hell I can't even really explain it to tell you the truth. Maybe it's just something you either have or you don't

Anyway OP, I wish I could help you find this desire. Don't get me wrong, mine is not absolutely burning so badly that I would not live with myself otherwise....I just know right now it's what I want to do.

Well there's a difference between having passion when you're in medicine and having passion when you're a pre-med. Having passion now, is probably more accurately described as enthusiasm (the type of often nauseating enthusiam that you see from orientation leaders welcoming incoming freshmen (i would know- i was one years ago)

 

[Eric Lindros]

Well there's a difference between having passion when you're in medicine and having passion when you're a pre-med. Having passion now, is probably more accurately described as enthusiasm (the type of often nauseating enthusiam that you see from orientation leaders welcoming incoming freshmen (i would know- i was one years ago)

Right. Enthusiasm. That's the word I was looking for. Thanks

 

[Virgil]

Your observational powers are faulty. There are all kinds of people in medical school and they all (well, mostly) work hard at it.

Screw passion. And words like "attain."

You're not applying for a job as the Pope. Just do the best you can, apply, and if you get in then work hard. And don't apologize for never having to have suffered in life. Neither have the majority of people on SDN.

"Hunger." I have no idea how anybody just out of high school can legitmately "hunger" for anything unless it is chicks or beer. Print this thread. Put it away someplace safe. Open it when you are a resident and you are going to laugh and quickly shred it lest any of your friends see what a complete ***** you once were.

For your information, no pre-med, not most, has ever experienced what it's like to be a physician. Don't obsess over it. If I had known what it was going to be like to be a resident I probably wouldn't have done it. Now that I have though I'm glad I did.

You only need passion for the application process. Once you're in it's just a grind. Eventually the only thing that will keep you motivated is your interest in a particular specialty, fear of quitting after incurring so much debt, or the prospect of finally making decent money at an OK but not spectacular job. Passion has got nothing to do with it. All you'll be passionate about after a week of intern year is getting a day off.

Oh, and if you want the unvarnished truth about what one particular corner of the medical world is like, a little place I like to call the "Pandaverse," then read my blog. Don't forget to check out the archives. Much free advice (worth every penny) and a good gestalt of medical school and residency.

Hey, thanks much for the reality check.

 

[8744]

It's so easy to not get into medical school that by default, you almost have to be obsessed which is probably a more accurate word than "passion" or "enthusiasm." Looking back, I have no idea how I could have been so obsessed.

On the other hand, it is pretty cool to be a doctor, especially in Emergency Medicine. I was kind of embarrassed to be in Family Medicine last year. Just the name of the specialty, Family Medicine, made me cringe.

Not manly. Not manly at all. It definitely did not appeal to my inner-cro-magnon.

 

[8744]

Hey, thanks much for the reality check.

Aw hell. Just make up your own mind and screw what anybody else thinks. If you're going to medical school to score hot nurses that's as good a reason as any.

 

[Virgil]

If everybody is so goddam passionate how come everybody complains when they work long hours. If something is your passion, you never tire of it. I can sit on the couch and watch all three of the Lord of the Rings movies (the extended versions). That's passion.

Exactly. A few days ago, I played Halo 2...probably a little too much. My eyes started watering and I had a headache and I still kept playing. When I contemplated why I can't do the same thing while studying, this thread was born.

Panda, do you think reading your blog will help my cause or is ignorance bliss for someone in my position?

 

[Eric Lindros]

Well there's a difference between having passion when you're in medicine and having passion when you're a pre-med. Having passion now, is probably more accurately described as enthusiasm (the type of often nauseating enthusiam that you see from orientation leaders welcoming incoming freshmen (i would know- i was one years ago)

I'm sort of confused about what you mean.

When you are a pre-med, you can't be passionate about things? Only enthused? Like right now, I am passionate about getting into school and starting. I am NOT passionate about my current job as an engineer. What's so wrong with that?

Obviously I don't know what being a doctor is like, but I explained that. Hell, I don't even know what med school is like.

 

[8744]

Hey, thanks much for the reality check.

And read my mother ****ing blog. This goes for all of you. If everybody read it SDN would be nothing but threads entitled, "That Mother ****er Panda is Right On" or "Have You Read Panda's Latest Article."

But no. You all keep going in circles asking the same questions and getting the same nebulous answers when with one click all could be explained.

 

[akademiks1989]

Excellent thread.

The only way you can attain passion is to submerge yourself in the area of medicine. Be it researching possible groundbreaking cancer cures (or reading about them), volunteering at a local hospital, or even reading books like Tuesday's With Morrie, you will learn to appreciate the art of medicine. Sometime or another, most of us found something about medicine that was unique to what we found so fascinating about it. For me, it was a potentially fatal illness that drew me in, back in the 10th grade. Ever since, I've read magazines on cancer, appreciated the sciences even more, and in a way, became obsessed in the craft. Passion is gained through submersion, a little bit of obsession, and a whole lot of respect for what the trade is.

 

[Eric Lindros]

It's so easy to not get into medical school that by default, you almost have to be obsessed which is probably a more accurate word than "passion" or "enthusiasm." Looking back, I have no idea how I could have been so obsessed.

On the other hand, it is pretty cool to be a doctor, especially in Emergency Medicine. I was kind of embarrassed to be in Family Medicine last year. Just the name of the specialty, Family Medicine, made me cringe.

Not manly. Not manly at all. It definitely did not appeal to my inner-cro-magnon.

I don't know much about Family Medicine so my opinion is probably a bit premature, but it doesn't appeal to me much either.

I'll be throwing darts at a picture of "FAMILY MEDICINE" starting my first day of orientation. 🙂 Motivation.

 

[Virgil]

And I am definitely prepared to feel the effects of the bull**** that comes along with this job, espcially after spending time on the internet, research, and reading blogs like yours. I'm glad I do these things because I feel a little more prepared about the reality of medicine (although I don't think I will ever truely realize it until I get there, so in that aspect I will never be fully prepared)

But as far as having a passion for it now? I don't think anyone can really have a passion based on anything except the small things that we do know about life in medicine. What we see on TV, what we experience at a volunteering job, what we learn in college, read on the internet.....I know they all can be such an incredibily deceptive motivation for this career. But what else do we really have to go on?

Sure it's a risk but then again, everything is a risk. All I know is right now I am working as an engineer right out of college and I am not into it. Life is easy, I am making money, and I don't really work all that hard, but I still sit here with a burning desire to go to medical school and be a doctor. Hell I can't even really explain it to tell you the truth. Maybe it's just something you either have or you don't

Anyway OP, I wish I could help you find this desire. Don't get me wrong, mine is not absolutely burning so badly that I would not live with myself otherwise....I just know right now it's what I want to do.

Thank you.

 

[braluk]

I'm sort of confused about what you mean.

When you are a pre-med, you can't be passionate about things? Only enthused? Like right now, I am passionate about getting into school and starting. I am NOT passionate about my current job as an engineer. What's so wrong with that?

Obviously I don't know what being a doctor is like, but I explained that. Hell, I don't even know what med school is like.

What I meant is, on your point about passion. You stated that it's difficult to be passionate about something (including myself) if you havn't been involved in medicine or currently practicing medicine, and thus, only the bits and pieces of what we do know about medicine can serve as our sustanence (sp?). Thus, enthusiasm, or pre-med obsession, as another poster pointed out, is probably a more fitting word. I wasn't rebuking any of your points, but just elaborating. Sorry if you took this differently- its been a long day.

 

[Eric Lindros]

And read my mother ****ing blog. This goes for all of you. If everybody read it SDN would be nothing but threads entitled, "That Mother ****er Panda is Right On" or "Have You Read Panda's Latest Article."

But no. You all keep going in circles asking the same questions and getting the same nebulous answers when with one click all could be explained.

Panda you need to write a book. Honestly, House of God has nothing on your blog.

 

[Eric Lindros]

What I meant is, on your point about passion. You stated that it's difficult to be passionate about something (including myself) if you havn't been involved in medicine or currently practicing medicine, and thus, only the bits and pieces of what we do know about medicine can serve as our sustanence (sp?). Thus, enthusiasm, or pre-med obsession, as another poster pointed out, is probably a more fitting word. I wasn't rebuking any of your points, but just elaborating. Sorry if you took this differently- its been a long day.

Ok, gotcha 🙂 And I totally agree.

 

[wolfram241]

It's a job. Get over yourselves.

 

[Virgil]

Excellent thread.

The only way you can attain passion is to submerge yourself in the area of medicine. Be it researching possible groundbreaking cancer cures (or reading about them), volunteering at a local hospital, or even reading books like Tuesday's With Morrie, you will learn to appreciate the art of medicine. Sometime or another, most of us found something about medicine that was unique to what we found so fascinating about it. For me, it was a potentially fatal illness that drew me in, back in the 10th grade. Ever since, I've read magazines on cancer, appreciated the sciences even more, and in a way, became obsessed in the craft. Passion is gained through submersion, a little bit of obsession, and a whole lot of respect for what the trade is.

I volunteered at the local ER but was encouraged to do my best to "stay out of the way." As such, I brought my Organic Chemistry books to the nurse break room and made the best use of my time. It was probably not the best thing to do as I was ended up associating Organic Chemistry with the ER...needless to say, I quit volunteering at that ER after about 100 hours of pure monotony. I am now making it my priority to gain clinical experience at a place that will allow me to do more than stay out of the way. If no such place exists, I will actually take the initiative to get that expereince anyway. Submersion and knowledge is the key--thanks.

 

[MJB]

Not sure how to say this without it coming off the wrong way...but speaking as a non-trad that's spent the last 8 years working in an industry I'm not at all passionate about...

if you're not passionate about your work or what you do or what you think you want to do...I highly, highly recommend you find something you are passionate about and pursue it. There are few things more miserable than spending all your time doing something you have no passion for.

I don't know that I hate my job, but I'm certainly not "passionate" about it like I am studying and pursuing admission to medical school.

I'm not "CERTAIN" that i will love medicine and will be passionate about it, because until I experience it, it would be silly to think I already know.

That being said, I know enough about what I want out of my career and life and what I like and don't like to do to know that I can make a CAREER and life out of practicing medicine and be happy and look forward to going to the "office" every day.

 

[akademiks1989]

I volunteered at the local ER but was encouraged to do my best to "stay out of the way." As such, I brought my Organic Chemistry books to the nurse break room and made the best use of my time. It was probably not the best thing to do as I was ended up associating Organic Chemistry with the ER...needless to say, I quit volunteering at that ER after about 100 hours of pure monotony. I am now making it my priority to gain clinical experience at a place that will allow me to do more than stay out of the way. If no such place exists, I will actually take the initiative to get that expereince anyway. Submersion and knowledge is the key--thanks.

No problem. I am actually signing up to volunteer at the ER next semester. Any tips?

Have you tried volunteering with pediatrics. It's very interactive, and to be honest, I hated that.

 

[MJB]

I will follow that up by saying that most of the Docs my wife works with that seem to be most miserable in their positions are the guys that went straight through and went to med school because it was "the thing to do" or because "my dad was a doc", etc...

Not saying that holds true for everyone, but it does seem to be a recurring theme.

 

[mshollywoodmd]

Something I have noticed from reading the allopathic board and talking to doctors is that oftentimes, the passion for medicine runs out due to the problems that doctors are prone to face (the hours, insurance companies, ungrateful patients--I'm sure you're familliar with the not-so-glamorous side of medicine).

Let me provide a parable. It's somewhat like marriage--at first, the passion is strong but after a while it usually dwindles (I have actually seen a study which supports this). So if you are left with someone who you do not respect as a human being, and the only reason you married this individual was because of the strong passion that existed between you, the marriage may end up in divorce. In this day and age, when people are told to follow their hearts, I speculate this may be a contributing reason for why the divorce rate is so high.

I think this is similar to choosing a career path. I think passion is a great thing to have but when it runs out, I do not want to be stuck doing something that earns me a modest amount of money and little respect. What are your thoughts?

This is a great preemptive question to consider before attempting to matriculate in med. school.

Your analogy comparing marriage and entering a profession was interesting but I see it in a different light. I personally feel most marriages that end in divorce (especially those that last for single digit years) are because those people probably should not have been married in the first place and probably got married for the wrong reasons e.g., unplanned pregnancy, ultimatums, money, biological clocks not so unlike wrong reasons people choose to go into professions that they aren't "passionate" about e.g., parents, money,societal pressures, etc. While marriages that last longer than single digits and this is only conjecture on my part, mostly end because the people in the relationship feel that they changed and during their transition the relationship no longer provided what they considered they needed to maintain their happiness and now they feel out of place within the relationship and no longer feel the passion that once existed.

Entering a new profession like marriage is major life change and should not be approched lightly. When you go into the field of medicine for any other reason than not having a true passion or as some would say "calling" for it, I believe you will ultimately feel like you have made a mistake and may come to regret the decision not unlike marrying for the wrong reasons. Of course this isn't always true but perhapsit is more times than not. As for those who start off with a passion for medicine and eventually become jaded I believe that stems from not fueling your passion with what it needs to continue to thrive and this can also be applied to marriage and careers. I will use my own analogy here...If you have a roaring fire but you don't continue to maintain it, it will eventually die out.

I agree with one of the previous posters about cultivating passion. You must first have it and then you cultivate it to sustain it.

I personally believe everyone has a passion for something, unfortuanately some people never figure out what they are passionate about ,but I don't think you have to have been an artist to be passionate about art. I think when you encounter that thing that can bring you happiness or that you are truly passionate about you will know it. Fortunately lots of pre-meds, non-trads, and existing physicians know that its medicine.

Good Luck in finding your passion

 

[Virgil]

What do the passionate people think about this post? It was written in reply to the question "if you were given the chance, would you become a doctor again?"

No way, not a chance. But I don't really know what I would choose to do instead either. Drinking beer and watching sports just haven't made it as a career path. Like just about everyone who've posted here have said, medical school is so different in ways that are hard to explain than you could possibly imagine. There is really little resemblance between what I pictured medical school, residency, and practice to be like and the reality. At times you may feel misled. It is in some ways a bit of a trap, the med school thing, and by the time you have a grasp on it, it is too late to easily turn back. I am a little surprised how many positive responses there have been here. I can't decide if these are just better people, more naive, or folks who chose their specialties wiser. For me, the whole experience and how bizarre it really is have proven to be isolating. You simply cannot explain or complain to your friends, family, spouse about the realities of medicine and expect them to really be able to understand. Even when they listen and sympathize and seem to get it, they really don't. Try it and see. Other docs will nod knowingly, but everyone else is left out of the little club.

I can recall a clinical professor telling our class one day late in the M2 year, "You will never be as nice a person as you are right now." It has proven to be true for alot of us. That is one major reason I wouldn't do it over. In some ways, I would rather be the person I was before I went to med school, even if it was founded on ignorance and naivete. I wasn't nearly as cynical, impatient, hateful, and disinterested toward humanity in general. I didn't stay so stressed all the time. The water tasted better. The air was fresher. I wasn't so fat.

I don't see too many practicing docs who unequivocally without pause would say they would do it all over. Most don't REALLY enjoy seeing the majority of their patients; they have to see them to be able to do what it is they do for/to them. The patient happens to be the only place to find coronaries to stent, etc. Just check out the tremendous resentment clinical docs have toward those who managed to avoid the whole seeing-patients-for-a-living bit, particularly rads. Seeing patients is a terrible burden alot of the time. You cannot appreciate how many crazy, stupid, and screwed-up people are out there until you go to med school. People you wouldn't even come across on your worst day in Walmart will suddenly be there in the ER to see you. The personality pathology alone is astonishing. Reasonable, intelligent people are so rare. You truly get a different view of human nature as a doc.

People are much less respectful and appreciative in general than you probably expect. It is a business through and through. Managed care runs everything. Cookbook medicine is rampant. Forget about much intellectual stimulation. The reseach being done is mostly worthless and tainted by drug companies. Evidence-based medicine is a lie and a hoax. Administrators will drive you nuts. You get put in impossible situations all the time. Gomers really don't die, it's true. You'll send granny to a nursing homes and not even think twice about it. You'll be ordering pain meds and benzos for all sorts of losers like a waiter in some cheap restaurant. They'll demand demerol, and send it with phenergan on the side. No, don't try to substitute, look at all those drug allergies.

What was it called? The Hypocritic Oath? Something like that.

 

[montessori2md]

I've been going back and forth in the PA forums about their prereqs for experience (some schools = 2000 hrs clinical), and how that's hmm, a bit much for me. But on the other hand, it seems scary that we can walk into medical school after having shadowed someone for a bit and done a poster presentation on HIV or something (seriously).

On the other hand, it's a minimum of 7 years to get through, and if schools start requiring kids to go out and save the world before entry, then that's tacking on yet more time waiting to do something. Sometimes I think that there should be a premed bootcamp to help people experience medicine. It's also unfortunate that med school itself is not at all like practicing medicine, and residency can be rather unlike the medicine one practices later on (ahem, those derm guys who are off to start their medspas, or those years in IM spent by future heme/onc, etc).

Plus, what with legal mumbo jumbo and technology, who knows what practice will be like 15 years from now? People talk about family med mds basically living off their nps and pas and signing their charts from home, maybe going into the office now and then to check in, see a difficult case.

That's what I like about medicine. Unlike teaching, which is pretty much the same as it was 100 years ago (with computers, but whatever, the process hasn't changed much), medicine is metamorphic. I don't think (fingers crossed) I'll get bored.

 

[Virgil]

I'm not "CERTAIN" that i will love medicine and will be passionate about it, because until I experience it, it would be silly to think I already know.

That being said, I know enough about what I want out of my career and life and what I like and don't like to do to know that I can make a CAREER and life out of practicing medicine and be happy and look forward to going to the "office" every day.

I feel that this comment hit home with me. Like another poster said, "it's a job. Get over yourselves." I feel that MJB's motivation is due to his knowing what he wants in life as a career, and this will make him happy. Is he passionate about medicine per se? Not necessarily. I feel that this is more akin to the "hunger" I was talking about earlier. Although MJB wasn't homeless, I'm sure, he experienced doing something for a living that he wasn't passionate about, and so the prospect of becoming a doctor is an exciting and motivating one. Am I wrong in saying this, MJB? Thoughts.

 

[dutchman]

I will follow that up by saying that most of the Docs my wife works with that seem to be most miserable in their positions are the guys that went straight through and went to med school because it was "the thing to do" or because "my dad was a doc", etc...

Not saying that holds true for everyone, but it does seem to be a recurring theme.

I disagree. The ones I have seen most dissapointed and miserable are the doctors that thought medicine was all rosy and magical, and were too excited before they got hit with reality. It's just a job, and even worse because there are ridiculous things that don't have to do with medicine or healing that happen in the field. Anyone that thinks medicine is going to present some supernatural experience needs to wake up from that slumber. In real life patients lie, sue, dis-obey and you have to deal with politics amongst your peers, insults from your superiors. Where is the magic in all that? IMO this is a job where you have to work very hard, and you should if you expect any form of success. You should probably expect a good number of really bad days in medicine(you probably wont be dissapointed). Don't expect confetti to fly out of your patient's ass when you heal them, they believe they are paying you to do just that. And just like any other job--if you do it right you might get to keep it.

 

[8744]

Exactly. A few days ago, I played Halo 2...probably a little too much. My eyes started watering and I had a headache and I still kept playing. When I contemplated why I can't do the same thing while studying, this thread was born.

Panda, do you think reading your blog will help my cause or is ignorance bliss for someone in my position?

Ignorance is better. If most people knew what they were getting into the medical schools would be either empty or filled with smarter-than-average carpet salesmen and seven-year Hospitality Management grads.

Do we necessarily want everybody in medicine to be a zealot? I don't think so. The only thing that makes it fun sometimes are my incredibly funny and irreverant colleagues.

 

[8744]

I disagree. The ones I have seen most dissapointed and miserable are the doctors that thought medicine was all rosy and magical, and were too excited before they got hit with reality. It's just a job, and even worse because there are ridiculous things that don't have to do with medicine or healing that happen in the field. Anyone that thinks medicine is going to present some supernatural experience needs to wake up from that slumber. In real life patients lie, sue, dis-obey and you have to deal with politics amongst your peers, insults from your superiors. Where is the magic in all that? IMO this is a job where you have to work very hard, and you should if you expect any form of success. You should probably expect a good number of really bad days in medicine(you probably wont be dissapointed). Don't expect confetti to fly out of your patient's ass when you heal them, they believe they are paying you to do just that. And just like any other job--if you do it right you might get to keep it.

Can I use that?

 

[TMP-SMX]

It is impossible to be happy without going through both highs and lows. Medicine is no different.

 

[paranoid_eyes]

you don't have to be a poor person to have a passion. similarly you can be rich and still love to help people. I don't think you understand what passion really is. I think we all have a passion for something, but discovering it is the hard part. If you want to discover and prove your passion, clinical experience is the way to go. As for grades, you have to be pretty damn passionate about medicine to try getting an A in classes like orgo and biochem. you have a passion for something, trust me. You just need to understand what you are passionate about.

 

[MJB]

I feel that this comment hit home with me. Like another poster said, "it's a job. Get over yourselves." I feel that MJB's motivation is due to his knowing what he wants in life as a career, and this will make him happy. Is he passionate about medicine per se? Not necessarily. I feel that this is more akin to the "hunger" I was talking about earlier. Although MJB wasn't homeless, I'm sure, he experienced doing something for a living that he wasn't passionate about, and so the prospect of becoming a doctor is an exciting and motivating one. Am I wrong in saying this, MJB? Thoughts.

You ask an interesting question...

While you're partially right, there's also a part of me that is driven by my desire to not only meet different people every day, but have the opportunity to help them.

I can't really put a single reason out there for why I want to be a physician...I just know that my 30 years on this earth have taught me that I would like medicine as a career more than what I'm doing now. I could EASILY hang out at my current job, buy a boat and a lake house, have my kids, and retire comfortably...but that's not my style. I like to challenge myself, and I would like to think that my work has a little more meaning than making/pushing some animal health products. Nothing wrong with it, but I want more.

While medicine is a "job", it's also a "career" in that you have a lot of control over what you do and where you end up...moreso than the situation I'm currently in.

Again, I'm not naive enough to believe it will all be rosy...not even close...and every physician I've spoken with has told me just that...but there's no way I would have made it through the past year of what I've been up to and coming through it as well as I have to this point without being "passionate"...While my friends are out having fun...I've been studying.

Now, if I don't get in anywhere, I might start to think I'm just an idiot...who knows.


Does this answer your question, or even come close? I appreciate the discussion.

 

[luciabelluci]

This may be a naive question, but is there a way to build passion?

Both my parents are doctors, and through them I got a horrible impression of the field. Example: one summer job was doing my mother's billing. After that I swore I would never go into medicine: the patients are rude and disobedient, the insurance companies are a nightmare, the politics ridiculous, and you'll get paged out of bed to go treat a patient who will then sue you when you can't produce a miracle.

What changed my mind was meeting people I actually wanted to help. The majority of my parents' patients are healthy complainers, people for whom I have limited sympathy. There's a world of difference between that and a kid with cerebral palsy.

My advice to you if you want to develop passion: try volunteering in something completely different than your father's specialty. Associate with people from different age and health backgrounds, and think about spending your life trying to make their's better. Break away from your comfort zone in the job description. Maybe you'll find an aspect of medicine that fascinates you, or you'll meet the people you want to treat someday. You probably know all the negatives of medicine, so don't be afraid of too rosy an outlook. The specific area that interests you will probably change after you go to medical school, but at least it will have gotten you that far. Or maybe this won't work and you'll choose a different career! Good luck.

 

[szhao]

mr. virgil your dino is stoking me

 

[ohiostatedoc]

I believe that anyone can become a doctor. It does not matter if you're rich,poor, or in between. The hunger comes from the person himself, this does not include what your parents want or what your friends want, at the end of the day it is all on you. The hunger you are talking about, the motivation is mostly intrinsic. It is deep down inside of you. Whether it came from a relative of yours having Downsyndrome sparking your interest. Or even maybe seeing what your father did that interested you. I think that you already have that passion, but you are not acknowledging it. You chose medicine, your grades may be suffering, but is it really too late? It is okay for you to want to become a doctor after seeing what your father did as a doctor himself.
Did you enjoy it/ find it interesting? Then there you can answer your own question. Don't ever doubt yourself. You may even be studying wrongly. Maybe not using the right techniques. Scrutinize yourself before allowing others to do it for you.