Paying off a car during med school

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Thanks for all the responses. Financially I'm okay right now. Graduated a year and a half ago and work full time in research. I have no student debt from undergrad and got about 15k in the bank w/my insurance payout. So I'm thinking new and hoping to get the majority of the car paid off by the time I start in August. I am leaning toward buying a new Toyota rav4 because id like to have a warranty and the new 2013 model is something 24/31 mpg. Since I live in the tundra (totaled my last car because of snow and I want the 4wd) and all the schools I've been accepted to w/exception to Tulane have significant winters I think it makes sense. But I'm open to more suggestions if anyone's got em.

Even if you're in good financial shape now, things will rapidly change once you reach med school. I would save for a rainy day. You could pick up a used (2003-2007) Rav4 or CRV for a reasonable price that will be very reliable. The difference in gas mileage won't be much, certainly not enough to make buying new a financially wise move.
 
Ya I forgot you are paying with borrowed money. I don't know if that makes it 40K, but I can see a 20K car costing you 30K.

20k car + 2k tax, tag, title +500 dealer/admin/financing fee
+2% compounding interest on the car loan
+1% student loan fees
--> at least 6.8% interest as it goes to student loans (possibly more if you're maxed out on stafford)
God forbid you go into forbearance during residency/fellowship and that 25 (at least) goes into 30 in 3 years, almost 35 in 5 years

Take that $35000 and pay it off in 10 years and you pay $48333 for a $20000 car
You pay that off over 30 and you pay $82145.

Plus, take the opportunity costs of not having that 35k in retirement. Put 35k into retirement for 30y instead of paying it off for 30 years at a conservative 4% rate of return and you're looking at having $113500 in savings (an increase of 78500). That's a difference of paying up to 82k and making 78500.

Plus, this assumes interest rates on student loans don't go up, which certainly isn't something to be taken for granted.
 
Even if you're in good financial shape now, things will rapidly change once you reach med school. I would save for a rainy day. You could pick up a used (2003-2007) Rav4 or CRV for a reasonable price that will be very reliable. The difference in gas mileage won't be much, certainly not enough to make buying new a financially wise move.

Exactly, smart people often talk themselves out of conventional financial advice. People justify poor financial moves.

Trust thesauce. (side note: that may be the strangest sentence I've ever written)
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
20k car + 2k tax, tag, title +500 dealer/admin/financing fee
+2% compounding interest on the car loan
+1% student loan fees
--> at least 6.8% interest as it goes to student loans (possibly more if you're maxed out on stafford)
God forbid you go into forbearance during residency/fellowship and that 25 (at least) goes into 30 in 3 years, almost 35 in 5 years

Take that $35000 and pay it off in 10 years and you pay $48333 for a $20000 car
You pay that off over 30 and you pay $82145.

Plus, take the opportunity costs of not having that 35k in retirement. Put 35k into retirement for 30y instead of paying it off for 30 years at a conservative 4% rate of return and you're looking at having $113500 in savings (an increase of 78500). That's a difference of paying up to 82k and making 78500.

Plus, this assumes interest rates on student loans don't go up, which certainly isn't something to be taken for granted.

Way off topic but im curious. Do any doctors, once they finish residency, live "frugally" for say 3 or so years and just pay down their loans with the majority of their earnings in that time?
 
Way off topic but im curious. Do any doctors, once they finish residency, live "frugally" for say 3 or so years and just pay down their loans with the majority of their earnings in that time?
I hope to do that. I live pretty comfortably now as a student on my cost of attendance. Since a resident salary is about double that after taxes I think I'll be able to make a signifcant dent in my loans during residency. I hope to continue that into my years as an attending so I can get the debt over and done with.
 
Yeah that was my plan. Live relatively austerely for 3-5 years and pay down the med school loan debt so then after that I don't have to worry and pay for it. I have no idea if this is common practice or financially unwise though.
 
hey....yalls topic popped up on the main page when i was logging in....you should get a toyota corolla...i got one for 15,000, 0 down, 0% percent financing for 6months, my payment came out to be 269.00 a month....toyota has good incentives and i only had to do oil changes and air filter change....good reliable car
 
Yeah that was my plan. Live relatively austerely for 3-5 years and pay down the med school loan debt so then after that I don't have to worry and pay for it. I have no idea if this is common practice or financially unwise though.

Very financially wise. My wife and I are going to start attacking my loans day 1 of residency.

Most attendings will tell you to be in no hurry to pay down loans because that's what they are doing or did. First, you should never trust financial advice from a doctor. Second, people more than 5-10 years from where you are had very different student loan balances and interest rates. If you have a 2% interest rate and inflation is 2-3%, you have no reason to pay it off quickly. Given the fact that student loans are now 6.8%+, the faster the better.

I'm doing my best to learn some financial stuff sooner than later. Like I said earlier, Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey are great. Also, whitecoatinvestor.com is great - its by an attending who is a regular on the EM boards. His website really explains some of the basic (and not so basic) financial stuff MDs and soon-to-be MDs need to know. He also lists a ton of financial mistakes the he and his peers regret as guidance. I can't recommend that highly enough.
 
Way off topic but im curious. Do any doctors, once they finish residency, live "frugally" for say 3 or so years and just pay down their loans with the majority of their earnings in that time?

This is NOT off topic. Getting a new car now has the potential to heavily influence how one must live after residency.

To directly answer your question: many residents plan to do so, but I have never met one that actually has. Generally, attendings buy a new house and car commensurate to the level of their new income right away.
 
20k car + 2k tax, tag, title +500 dealer/admin/financing fee
+2% compounding interest on the car loan
+1% student loan fees
--> at least 6.8% interest as it goes to student loans (possibly more if you're maxed out on stafford)
God forbid you go into forbearance during residency/fellowship and that 25 (at least) goes into 30 in 3 years, almost 35 in 5 years

Take that $35000 and pay it off in 10 years and you pay $48333 for a $20000 car
You pay that off over 30 and you pay $82145.

Plus, take the opportunity costs of not having that 35k in retirement. Put 35k into retirement for 30y instead of paying it off for 30 years at a conservative 4% rate of return and you're looking at having $113500 in savings (an increase of 78500). That's a difference of paying up to 82k and making 78500.

Plus, this assumes interest rates on student loans don't go up, which certainly isn't something to be taken for granted.

I don't follow 100% of your math or necessarily agree with it all, but I 'get' and agree with what you are saying as a whole.
 
Do yourself a favor and listen to some Clark Howard or Dave Ramsey. That $20k car will end up costing you $40k in the long run. Only buy what you can afford to pay cash for. If you have to buy something with loans, buy a 10y old accord or civic with 150k miles on it and looks awful but only costs $2k. Doctors are notoriously bad investors and they (soon to be we!!!) convince themselves that it's OK to spend money they don't have or invest in risky things because they think they know better than everyone else.

Don't do it. You're a poor college student. You don't need a new car. You have no one to impress. Buy something that (barely) drives and you will be happy when you graduate with less debt.

I've been thinking about how much Dave Ramsey would go insane at the sight of this thread all the whilst reading it.
 
When you're making 700 grand as a neurosurgeon paying off loans during residency is ******ed. Why decrease your standard of living for 7 years and make a minimal dent in your debt?
 
When you're making 700 grand as a neurosurgeon paying off loans during residency is ******ed. Why decrease your standard of living for 7 years and make a minimal dent in your debt?

1. Not everyone is going to be a neurosurgeon

2. You're taking for granted a salary you may never see

3. You may be able to have more than minimal impact on your debt if you budget wisely

4. Not everyone equates spending money with having fun

5. Building good financial habits during residency will help you make the most of your money as an attending

That list will at least get you started...
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
1. Not everyone is going to be a neurosurgeon

2. You're taking for granted a salary you may never see

3. You may be able to have more than minimal impact on your debt if you budget wisely

4. Not everyone equates spending money with having fun

5. Building good financial habits during residency will help you make the most of your money as an attending

That list will at least get you started...

My favorite point is one that you didn't mention...Avoiding the pain that 7 years of compound interest on 100-200k will cause on your future (non) investments...
 
Since we're on the talk of money... is anyone considering a financial planner once residency starts?

I have a bunch of very financial savvy friends and relatives who advised me to steer clear of financial planners.

Their reasoning was financial planners often take a percent of your investment's earnings ( which can equal $10,000s of dollars) and the information they are providing can be easily obtained if you read a couple of books.

However, that being said, I have a lot to learn before I would be comfortable investing large amounts of money on my own.
 
I have a bunch of very financial savvy friends and relatives who advised me to steer clear of financial planners.

Their reasoning was financial planners often take a percent of your investment's earnings ( which can equal $10,000s of dollars) and the information they are providing can be easily obtained if you read a couple of books.

However, that being said, I have a lot to learn before I would be comfortable investing large amounts of money on my own.
He seems to agree: http://whitecoatinvestor.com/financial-advisors-arent-doctors/
 
My favorite point is one that you didn't mention...Avoiding the pain that 7 years of compound interest on 100-200k will cause on your future (non) investments...
The "pain" you're talking about is non-existent. The difference in forbearance and IBR payments over 7 years for me would be 43.6 grand in interest. Drop in the bucket. It'd be absolutely ******ed for me to decrease my standard of living for 7 years over such a miserably small amount of money.
 
The "pain" you're talking about is non-existent. The difference in forbearance and IBR payments over 7 years for me would be 43.6 grand in interest. Drop in the bucket. It'd be absolutely ******ed for me to decrease my standard of living for 7 years over such a miserably small amount of money.

To each his own. Personally, I want to be debt free and retire young.
 
To each his own. Personally, I want to be debt free and retire young.

I listen to Dave all the time driving home from work. I get that it's fun/exciting to pay down debt or become debt free. Although I think that a lot of people in my class have an odd relationship with their loans - as if it's soul crushing and there's no way they're ever going to be able to pay it off. It's not like this is credit card debt or loans for a college degree that isn't likely to amount to a job.

I'm also going to a school where most people graduate with 120-160k in loans rather than some made up AAMC national stat. It doesn't take a whole lot of sacrifice to pay it off in 10 years even while being in forbearance for your entire residency. I could see how people would feel differently coming out of school with 280-320k.
 
That miserably small amount of money is what my parents make in a year. #perspective

Why is that relevant? If you plan on making what your parents make a year as a doctor, then that's unfortunate. I bet you'll be making quite a bit more. Even to the point where the choice between 42 grand of less debt vs an extra 600 bucks a month for 7 years of residency is easy - keep the cash and live a little better.
 
Why is that relevant? If you plan on making what your parents make a year as a doctor, then that's unfortunate. I bet you'll be making quite a bit more. Even to the point where the choice between 42 grand of less debt vs an extra 600 bucks a month for 7 years of residency is easy - keep the cash and live a little better.

Why is it relevant? The attitude that you have is the reason that physicians get into financial trouble. Thinking that they're above fiscal common sense can lead to financial hardship later in life, especially if they never learn how to manage their money properly when they don't have it. It's easier to live within your means when you're not making money - then you understand that you really don't need your 700k salary to be happy. This leads to better investing and, if you want it, earlier retirement.

No one is saying that you have to live life like you're completely broke, just use some common sense. You're probably also the only one in this thread that is masochistic enough to want to become a neurosurgeon. What are you planning on doing with your "extra 600" per month? I'm hoping that it will go into a better apartment, a better car, or more delicious food, because all of the NSG residents that I know figuratively live at the hospital.

Personally, I'm looking at doing residency in an area with a low cost of living coupled with a high quality IM program. That will allow me to live reasonably while paying off some of my debt.
 
The "pain" you're talking about is non-existent. The difference in forbearance and IBR payments over 7 years for me would be 43.6 grand in interest. Drop in the bucket. It'd be absolutely ******ed for me to decrease my standard of living for 7 years over such a miserably small amount of money.

You're something else, ijn
 
You're something else, ijn

Something else is a good way to describe his attitude, for sure.

Wonder if he would be willing to pay me his 40 k in a lump sum if I paid off his interest for 7 years? I'd be more than willing to do that...
 
Last edited:
Something else is a good way to describe his attitude, for sure.

Wonder if he would be willing to pay me his 40 k in a lump sum if I paid off his interest for 7 years? I'd be more than willing to do that...

I'd be more than willing to accept 43.6k more in debt at the end of residency to increase my monthly income by 18%.
 
I'd be more than willing to accept 43.6k more in debt at the end of residency to increase my monthly income by 18%.

So you're saying that if I pay your monthly interest, you'll pay me 43.6k when you're done?

...Let me find my nearest contracts attorney.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Doctors are notoriously bad investors and they (soon to be we!!!) convince themselves that it's OK to spend money they don't have or invest in risky things because they think they know better than everyone else.

Don't do it. You're a poor college student. You don't need a new car. You have no one to impress. Buy something that (barely) drives and you will be happy when you graduate with less debt.
Yup, yup, yup. I drive a car that cost $4000 that my wife and I bought in cash at the end of M2. For my first two years of med school, we only had one car, but I had to buy another one for rotations. I've now had that car for 4.5 years, and it's probably about 13 years old. The passenger window just came off the tracks though, and I had to disassemble the door to epoxy it back on, but the total cost was $7. I'm planning to flog this bad boy until fellowship or attending-land.

You could buy a $10,000 car or something like that, but spending $15-25K on a car is probably a pretty bad decision.

Buying a new car, which financially savvy people will always tell you, is one of the worst investments you can make. Once your car leaves the dealership, it drops 5-10k value depending on the model.

Just get a clunker, use your contacts (friends/parents) to get a decent old car that can last you until you make some real money. Or move close to school. You are going to end up paying much more with the interest rates accumulating over years. And you might be in danger going into credit card debt once your loan options run out. Carpool, get a bike, move close to school.. but don't buy a new car on loans it's just dumb.
Agree as well.

The "pain" you're talking about is non-existent. The difference in forbearance and IBR payments over 7 years for me would be 43.6 grand in interest. Drop in the bucket. It'd be absolutely ******ed for me to decrease my standard of living for 7 years over such a miserably small amount of money.
$44,000 could be over half of a year's net salary as a pediatrician. It is a pretty poor thought process to assume you'll be in a high-paying specialty, and it would be pretty sad if you talked yourself out of doing a specialty you love because you couldn't afford it, because of poor financial decisions as a med student or undergrad.

I don't know dude. At 2% financing there is hardly any interest on the car. That 20K car will cost you 21K. If I buy a new car now and over 5 years lose 10K in depreciation and 1K in financing but save 3K in better gas mileage and another 3K in repairs is it really that awful of a use of money (net 5K lose)?
I have classmates who bought new cars on student loans. Those are still accumulating interest at a rate of almost 7%/year, and the cars are already 5-6 years old, without any payment made toward the principal. That's $1400/year in interest, and it might not be touched until 10+ years after the loan was disbursed.
 
$44,000 could be over half of a year's net salary as a pediatrician. It is a pretty poor thought process to assume you'll be in a high-paying specialty, and it would be pretty sad if you talked yourself out of doing a specialty you love because you couldn't afford it, because of poor financial decisions as a med student or undergrad.
It's sad pediatricians are paid like dogs, but there's no way in hell I'm going into a specialty where I'm not paid what I'm worth. :laugh:
 
It's sad pediatricians are paid like dogs, but there's no way in hell I'm going into a specialty where I'm not paid what I'm worth. :laugh:

What are you worth, exactly? I don't know there's a field in medicine that will match salary with what you think of yourself.
 
What are you worth, exactly? I don't know there's a field in medicine that will match salary with what you think of yourself.

Starting salary of around 490ish, increasing to an average of 780ish with 3 years of experience. If I get lucky and turn into a workaholic, 75th percentile is in the low seven figures.
 
$44,000 could be over half of a year's net salary as a pediatrician. It is a pretty poor thought process to assume you'll be in a high-paying specialty, and it would be pretty sad if you talked yourself out of doing a specialty you love because you couldn't afford it, because of poor financial decisions as a med student or undergrad.

The data disagrees with you.

According to the recent payment data:

General Peds: 25th percentile is $151,817

Assuming 30% combined tax rate you are still thousands above 100K net.
 
I'd be more than willing to accept 43.6k more in debt at the end of residency to increase my monthly income by 18%.

Why on earth would you pay that much in interest? Every resident I know that is making loan payments is doing so via IBR. The payments are 10 to 15 percent of discretionary income, which seems to run about $150/mo.
 
Why on earth would you pay that much in interest? Every resident I know that is making loan payments is doing so via IBR. The payments are 10 to 15 percent of discretionary income, which seems to run about $150/mo.

I'm going based off of the AAMC calculator. I have no idea if you can pay less than what the AAMC quoted, it's just what they have.

medloans.jpg


Alternative scenario, I go into forbearance and finish residency with 237,377 in debt rather than 193,694. Meh. Doesn't seem like it's worth sacrificing 402-672 dollars a month for 7 years to have such a minor impact on the final result.
 
Last edited:
150,000 in debt I would venture is not the norm anymore, upwards of 200,000 is. You also can no longer defer loans during residency.

Regardless, the goal is to heed caution like you say.
Please elaborate on this. I was under the impression that you could.
 
I'm going based off of the AAMC calculator. I have no idea if you can pay less than what the AAMC quoted, it's just what they have.

Wow, the IBR payments are extraordinarily sensitive to family size. I had no idea. You are correct, as a single person even the IBR payments are huge.

brb, getting married and having two kids FAST
 
The data disagrees with you.

According to the recent payment data:

General Peds: 25th percentile is $151,817

Assuming 30% combined tax rate you are still thousands above 100K net.
I said could be, and I stand by that. The point is that it's pretty crazy to say $43,000 is a "drop in the bucket."

Using a marginal rate of 28%, my state's income tax rate, and FICA, you're pretty much right at $100K with a gross of $151K, and that's assuming you're not self-employed and therefore your employer pays the other half of your FICA. Otherwise it's another $8000, and you're down to $92K after taxes.

Wow, the IBR payments are extraordinarily sensitive to family size. I had no idea. You are correct, as a single person even the IBR payments are huge.

brb, getting married and having two kids FAST
On the list of bad reasons to have children, tax breaks should be very near the top.
 
I said could be, and I stand by that. The point is that it's pretty crazy to say $43,000 is a "drop in the bucket."

Using a marginal rate of 28%, my state's income tax rate, and FICA, you're pretty much right at $100K with a gross of $151K, and that's assuming you're not self-employed and therefore your employer pays the other half of your FICA. Otherwise it's another $8000, and you're down to $92K after taxes.


On the list of bad reasons to have children, tax breaks should be very near the top.
You wouldn't pay that much in federal income tax in reality. A single taxpayer making $150k w/ a standard deduction and no dependents would pay $33,661 (22.5%).
 
Starting salary of around 490ish, increasing to an average of 780ish with 3 years of experience. If I get lucky and turn into a workaholic, 75th percentile is in the low seven figures.

Lol. I can't imagine anyone I know putting an actual numeric value on themselves. Or using the phrase "If I get lucky and turn into a workaholic" - if I think about getting lucky financially, i'm talking about inventing the next pet rock.
 
Lol. I can't imagine anyone I know putting an actual numeric value on themselves. Or using the phrase "If I get lucky and turn into a workaholic" - if I think about getting lucky financially, i'm talking about inventing the next pet rock.

:laugh: It's MGMA data.
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I realize it's MGMA data. That's not the question that was posed. The question was: what are you worth? You answered with MGMA data. That's what I thought was funny.

We're all worth what the market will pay.

No wait, we're all unique priceless snowflakes. Right?
 
Sorry to go back to original topic, but I am in a similar boat, although the decision is easy for me as I have no money except for what student loans provide me. I was driving about 15 year old car that unfortunately was totaled earlier this year. I have been able to borrow a family car for a year, but will need to purchase something in the spring for rotations. I didn't have a luxury car before so I know I don't need one now. My 15 year old car was driven across the state at least once a month just fine! Looking forward to purchasing a car in the $3-5k range in the spring with student loans and insurance payout. If I get a car with automatic locks/windows, that will be a MAJOR upgrade for me 🙂

Plenty of decent cars to be had via dealerships or even craigslist. My car that was totaled was purchased for about $3500 with only 70k miles put on it in 10 years (some grandma just drove it church...). Shop around. Might find good deals in the spring when people are buying graduation gifts, new cars, etc. and selling their old but still nice ones.