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PBL vs. LDP?

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Nightfox

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Hey, I just got into lecom and I have no idea what path to choose: LDP or PBL. I've heard some good things and some bad things about PBL, but I've heard that LDP isn't as useful during clinical years. This is a big decision, since I heard they don't let you switch once you've committed to a pathway. I like structured education, but I'm not big on memorizing for a test and then forgetting what I've learned when I'm studying for the next test.

Which path is better for clinical years and why? I know Lecom pushes PBL, but what if some members in my group are lazy and present the material in poor detail? Do I miss out on that material then? How structured are PBL pathways?

Any advice would help. And being this is my first post, I ran a search and couldn't find much on this topic. Thanks.

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PBL might give you an advantage for the first month of clinicals (and really not that much....youll all be lost the first few rotations!!)....beyond that, its only really a different type of learning style. As you stated, both have pros and cons....up to you to decide which is for you. Because you state you like the structured education, Id suggest leaning more towards LDP.
stomper
 
Thanks stomper.

Is pbl really that unstructured? What pathway did you pick, do you regret your choice?

thanks.
 
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Its not that unstructured, but has undergone extensive yearly changes as it is still a reasonably new pathway (my class was only the 2nd class of PBL). Me, I was a LDP....but I have to admit to becoming a *modified* ISP (I rarely went to class by mid MSII). Dont regret any choice....I think I would have done fine in any of the 3 pathways. For me it really came down to was that I had always been in a "lecture-discussion" pathway, why change it for the most important part of my education. However, as youll learn on your clinicals....it doesnt matter....you could have aced all your exams, and you still wont know how to manage a patient.
stomper
 
I was a PBL student at Lecom. Currently, I'm an MSIII. Overall, I was extremely happy with my education and our board scores were fantastic. For the last two years, PBL board scores have been higher than LDP scores. At first, the PBL program feels a bit overwhelming, but most students settle into it pretty well. Students don't present material to each other, so your success or failure rests squarely on your own shoulders. Here's how the process works: you review a case from beginning to end. One student is the "doctor", and one student is the "patient". The group tries to determine which tests to order and why you would order them. After you have identified the correct diagnosis for the case, each group identifies 3 chapters from the required texts that will be on the next exam. The tests are spaced 4 weeks apart and have 25-40 chapters on each test. As I said, it's pretty overwhelming at first, but PBL didn't lose a single student in the MSI and MSII years.

As far as clinicals go, all of my attendings have been happy with my performance. Even docs who were skeptical about the PBL pathway were pleasantly surprised. From the first day, PBL teaches you to think like a clinician, instead of a student. I have found it to be invaluable.

Besides, I've said it before, and I'll say it again... Nothing beats studying in your pajamas!!! :laugh: ;) :D

Good luck with your decision and congratulations on your acceptance. I'm sure that you will do well with whatever you decide. PM me if you have any other questions. :luck:
 
watch it before you get handed a "TS card"... ALL doctors know about the TS card, don't they?
 
I am an MS III now, having been in LDP at LECOM. I have to speak to the benefits of being in LDP. First off, it really depends upon what learning style you think is best for you. I could not imagine myself doing either of the two other pathways because I don't learn well in those environments day in and day out. And as has been stated before, there are benefits and drawbacks to each of the pathways.

For LDP, you know you're getting a truly complete education that will give you what you need to know for boards and more. The biggest benefit for LDP is that you are being lectured by both PhD's and DO/MD's once you hit the systems based curriculum. I cannot stress how important this is. Specialists for each of the systems (renal, cardio, pulmonary, etc.) come in and discuss important topics in their field and are able to give you their perspective as it's practiced. Internists and FPs also come in to discuss certain topics from their perspective. For example, a dermatologist comes in and will show you slides of his patients, tell you how they presented, what the treatment was, and the outcome. This does not occur in either of the other two pathways. PBL has the majority of their physicians coming in to lecture/moderate beginning the second year, but most are PCPs. ISP doesn't have any real interaction with physicians except for the clinical medicine course (CODA).

For some reason it always comes up that PBL is better trained for clinical years than LDP or ISP-not true. Their curriculum is more clinically-oriented yes, but you will still gain those clinical-thinking skills in the other two pathways. Do I wish LDP and ISP were more clinically-oriented?...of course, but I felt extremely well prepared going into clinical rotations, trying to figure out differentials and treatments. All three pathways go through a clinical skills course, just at different times and in different ways. We all do the same basic procedures and learn the same information. What matters on clinical rotations is how hard you work, how willing you are to work/show interest, and knowing your MSI/II material to apply it to patient care in the hospital/office. All three pathways are prepared to be excellent students in their clinical years.

Negative points about LDP...the longer hours and less board study time, and yes, having to deal with the rules of the school each and every day.

I actually wish the school would get rid of the pathway systems because an ideal education includes all three styles. I did well coming from LDP, and thought it was the best way for me to learn the material and apply it to patient care. For someone else, it's a totally different story.

And as for board scores...some of the top scores I heard from our class were LDP students. All three pathways had students that failed the boards. You can't correlate the pathway to board scores. Board scores always come down to how much an individual student can prepare him/herself once given all the information. All the information needed for board prep is given by the school, regardless of pathway. It's up to the student to excel as much as he/she can on their boards.

If you have any questions, you can PM me, and I'd be happy to tell you anything else about LDP or LECOM.

Good luck,

njdo
 
I'm another LECOMer who was in the LDP program. As the others have said, it depends on which learning style you prefer. I learn better by being lectured to, and I had bad experiences in undergrad working in groups, so LDP was the right choice for me. I needed to learn in a structured manner, and I needed the discipline, so ISP was out. I enjoyed the LDP pathway because it fit my learning style best.

And as for the "PBL is better prepared for rotations" part - I agree with njdo in feeling :confused: I didn't feel any more or less prepared than my PBL and ISP colleagues when I started rotations. I will agree that you will all feel lost when rotations first start, whichever pathway you are in.

Regarding board scores, I'm not sure if the PBL's do better than the LDP's or not, but if they do I think the fact that they have much more time to study for the boards may have something to do with it.

Good luck with your decision!
 
Most of the info I got was from my tourguide, but she was a PBL student herself. I think all pathways are really good, but I decided to go with PBL since I am more of an active learner. I learn by talking things through and not as well by being lectured at. It's a big decision and I just felt really uninformed about the pathways. Thanks for the replies.
 
Nightfox said:
Most of the info I got was from my tourguide, but she was a PBL student herself. I think all pathways are really good, but I decided to go with PBL since I am more of an active learner. I learn by talking things through and not as well by being lectured at. It's a big decision and I just felt really uninformed about the pathways. Thanks for the replies.


Good luck....
 
Hey, Im an Ms2 at lecom in the pbl pathway. I have to say that I couldnt imagine being in any other pathway. Being in lecture every day all day long is is really difficult and looking back...there is no way i would have been able to handle school. Sometimes Pbl gets a bad reputation b/c the lecture pathway feels that b/c we arent in lecture that we are slackers and sleep in all day, etc. But in reality we are constantly studying. Our work piles up like crazy and you can't get close to passing if you dont keep up. Yes,...some of us do study in our PJ's...but we are still studying.
Overall, being in med school is hard period. Its tiring and stressful and it doesnt matter if you choose a lecture or pbl way of learning. Personally, I would rather study all day at starbucks then be in school staring at four walls w/out any windows. So...you have to do whats good for you. Good luck deciding....just remember that in the end...you will most likely be just as prepared for rotations as everyone else.
 
dont think about it,,,get in to pbl pathway as fast as you can. you wont have to deal with coda
 
But don't the PBL'ers have something similar to CODA?

(I will agree that CODA is a pain, although some things were helpful)
 
I think it stands for something like "Clinical Osteopathic Diagnostic Applications" :confused:

Anyway, it's the program of clinical experiences we have during our second year. There are standardized patients, different programs at Millcreek Hospital (most of which are dumb, but some are helpful), OPEP (teaching us how to do ophthalmic exams), SPEC (teaching us how to do male/female exams), and working with different docs (shadowing or more depending on who your attending is).

Edit: stomper, your avatar is great! "SOTP" :laugh: :thumbup:
 
I had heard that PBL was going to be forced into CODA this year. Is that true, or are the PBLer's lucky enough to be in Kauffman and Wismer's Clinical Exam class? I would be completely lost this year if it weren't for them!!!
 
sddoc said:
I had heard that PBL was going to be forced into CODA this year. Is that true, or are the PBLer's lucky enough to be in Kauffman and Wismer's Clinical Exam class? I would be completely lost this year if it weren't for them!!!


PBL is strictly w/Kaufmann.
 
You're very lucky. Listen to what he says, and you'll do fine on clinicals! ;) :D :cool:
 
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