Pbl

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Mizoodles

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Trying to decide between a PBL style school and one that is more traditional. I heard that PBL curriculum is terrible - it is an inefficient way to study and doesn't prepare you well for the boards. Who would want to take 4 hours to learn unfiltered information from a peer when you could learn it directly from a knowledgeable expert in under 1 hour? Anyways, how are you expected to participate in PBL cases from day-1, when you will have very little foundational knowledge base?

Opinions on PBL curriculum please!
 
Honestly, I think it depends on how you learn information. If you are a student who can sit in lecture for several hours, then absorb and integrate information adequately, then PBL may not serve you very well. However, if you are a student who learns best by looking at examples of diseases and researching things firsthand, then PBL may help you more than hours of lecture you'll never remember.

At any PBL school, you'll find some students who love the format and some who hate it. You'll find the same thing at more traditional schools. In most cases, it's about the students, not the format.
 
I'm actually making the same decision, and am leaning more towards the PBL. I sat in on one of these small group sessions, and most of the negativity I had towards it is now gone... But, I definitely do not think it is for every learning style.

I felt like certain people in the group were "wasting" their time because they didn't need an explanation of certain pathways, but rather spent time explaining it to the group. I think you can 1) learn from this, and 2) benefit when a topic comes up that you find yourself being "taught"...

For me personally, just being forced to keep up in order to keep the group moving is a plus. Also, having to dig into the material and come up with answers to questions that you wouldn't be looking at in a traditional program can only add to your education, no?

Just my thoughts..
 
Trying to decide between a PBL style school and one that is more traditional. I heard that PBL curriculum is terrible - it is an inefficient way to study and doesn't prepare you well for the boards. Who would want to take 4 hours to learn unfiltered information from a peer when you could learn it directly from a knowledgeable expert in under 1 hour? Anyways, how are you expected to participate in PBL cases from day-1, when you will have very little foundational knowledge base?

Opinions on PBL curriculum please!

At one of my interviews, the physician interviewer told me point blank "the PBL system is inefficient for someone who can learn straight out of a lecture or textbook." Nevertheless, I am sure people who learn better when engaging the material in an open forum tend to gravitate towards pbl only schools. I participated in a mock-pbl session and it was fun, especially since I have loads of clinical experience and can easily identify common disease presentations, differentials, etc. But I can't imagine learning everything by PBL. This is probably why most schools have a mix of PBL and lecture.
 
Like every "style", it all depends on how you learn and has it's pros and cons.

I went to an all PBL school and personally, I think a lot of the negativity towards it due to schools not really "doing it right" by trying to simply implement some sort of "small group" time amongst their traditional curriculum. I think for PBL to work it the entire curriculum needs to be organized to support it.

Also, it's not understood that well. The point of the small group session times are not to allow students to teach each other. Really, a significant portion of your knowledge should not be coming from that group time. That group time is meant for the group to come up with topics that you need to learn (basically on your own) in order to understand whatever part of the case or subject that your group is on.

So say you have a chest pain case. Well your decides that to understand the case you all need to read up on cardio physio, maybe some neuro pain pathways, cardiovascular pharm, etc.... The next time your group meets you then advance through the case and come up with more topics to read about. You may spend a LITTLE time as a group explaining a concept from the previous reading to each other if something still doesn't make since but that's not the main point of the group time.

In the beginning it can be VERY slow and there's a fair amount of faith you have to have in "the system" that in the end you'll cover all that you need to cover. At my school I'd say it took most students a good semester to really become comfortable with that kind of curriculum.

Practically, we had PBL sessions 3x/week for 2 hours each time. Each session we would pick anywhere from ~3-8 chapters/topics to read about in the various basic sciences (physio, biochem, path, pharm, neuro, genetics, immuno, etc.) During a semester we had 2-3 blocks where each block had cases that had some overlap and focused on similar issues (cardio cases, cancer cases, infectious, etc...) At the end of each block we had a exam that was basically in board exam format that covered all the topics/sciences that we had chosen to read for that particular block.

It was up to each group to move at their own pace and pick the issues that thought were important (with some input from the physician facilitator to make sure we didn't totally get off track). So while each group sometimes picked slightly different topics/chapters, overall most of the content was the same. And part of the faith was that by the end of 2 years you would cover everything you needed to. And in the end we basically covered most topics twice over the span of those 2 years.

Again, PBL is NOT the same everywhere and that's where I think the trouble comes in when a school tries to implement random small group sessions and it just ends up being a waste of the students time instead of a framework to cover the basic sciences.

I know going in that I did not want to sit through lectures all day, and I don't learn well that way. So really, I was on campus at most 2 hours a day and had the rest of the time study how I saw fit.

In regards to board review, I don't think it's any better or worse than a traditional curriculum, it's what you make of it. At my school each test was a board style exam with questions covering various sciences. It certainly wasn't a hindrance here as for the past few years we've been #1 or #2 in COMLEX Level 1 average scores among DO schools.

I know there have been multiple PBL threads on here with more detail on the specifics so I'd suggest checking those out at as well. Like I said, it's not that it's better or worse than any other curriculum, it's just what you'll be comfortable with. I can say that if you prefer the structure of a traditional style with lectures and outlined notes then you may be miserable in a PBL setting.
 
At one of my interviews, the physician interviewer told me point blank "the PBL system is inefficient for someone who can learn straight out of a lecture or textbook." Nevertheless, I am sure people who learn better when engaging the material in an open forum tend to gravitate towards pbl only schools. I participated in a mock-pbl session and it was fun, especially since I have loads of clinical experience and can easily identify common disease presentations, differentials, etc. But I can't imagine learning everything by PBL. This is probably why most schools have a mix of PBL and lecture.

That's the thing. At least here, you're basically learning everything straight out of the textbooks (and/or review books or whatever else you use). The point of PBL is to provide a framework with which you learn the sciences.

I agree though, if a school is running it where you're having to learn IN the group it can be very inefficient and why I think it gets a bad rap at times.
 
All you need to know is that PBL=required attendance. I find it a horribly inefficient and frustrating system to learn in that basically ends up just being an excuse for the school to not bother teaching you the material, but since required attendance med schools are something you want to avoid at all costs, it doesn't really matter how well or poorly PBL works.
 
I'll be starting school at LECOM in July in a PBL curriculum. Yes, I have required attendance but after the first semester it is only about 2-3 hours a day. As an older nontrad I think I'll do better in small groups than sitting in large lectures all day where my attention would wander and my back would hurt!

Anyway, something I thought was interesting at my LECOM interview was that the school has different learning pathways including a standard lecture and a PBL curriculum. They said at the interview that the PBL students have higher average board scores than the trad lecture pathway. I would guess that since PBL starts you on "cases" right away that you get a leg up on board style questions.
 
We have PBLs in my engineering classes. I find them a terrible waste of time. Most of the group time is spent getting people who won't keep up with the material on their own up to date on all the info, the rest of the time is spent arguing.
 
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Although I'm sure it's different from med school, I took a case-study based pathophysiology class during undergrad that was basically run in a PBL style and couldn't stand it. Huge wastes of time, little to no direction, and having to write case reports in groups of 4 made it near unbearable. To me (of course depending on how the course is taught) it usually ends up being cart before the horse, which is why I avoided case-study based curriculums and places where PBL started before second year.
 
Is required attendance or PBL-vs-traditional facts about a school that can be easily found on the internet or in the MSAR? (I don't have my copy with me right now)
 
I generally liked case based small group learning when it can be used to help students tackle problems in an organized way. It definitely has the potential to go poorly though.
 
We have PBLs in my engineering classes. I find them a terrible waste of time. Most of the group time is spent getting people who won't keep up with the material on their (slowing the group down) up to date on all the info, the rest of the time is spent arguing.

I agree with this. My school is not strictly PBL but we have lots of small groups and group sessions and it is usually a bunch of clueless people arguing with another bunch of clueless people!!!!!
 
All you need to know is that PBL=required attendance. I find it a horribly inefficient and frustrating system to learn in that basically ends up just being an excuse for the school to not bother teaching you the material, but since required attendance med schools are something you want to avoid at all costs, it doesn't really matter how well or poorly PBL works.

I couldn't disagree more. Take Al's comments, negate them, and you will have my personal opinion. You also are basically are calling my faculty and school's administration inherently lazy - which I find a little slanderous.

Note the emphasis on personal opinion. Everybody learns differently. PBL is not for everyone. I would go so far as to say it isn't for Al. 😉

But it is hardly "something to avoid at all costs", "inefficient and frustrating" for everyone.

Al's visceral response is a good litmus test: if you are hung up on the attendance issue - PBL will not be for you, period. Do everyone a favor and stay away from such programs. Go ahead and sleep in and miss your traditional lectures. You will only cause grief for yourself, your classmates, and ultimately the school if you currently have a hard time as an undergraduate making it to lecture. If you come into PBL with a bad attitude, bad things will happen.
 
I'll be starting school at LECOM in July in a PBL curriculum. Yes, I have required attendance but after the first semester it is only about 2-3 hours a day. As an older nontrad I think I'll do better in small groups than sitting in large lectures all day where my attention would wander and my back would hurt!

Anyway, something I thought was interesting at my LECOM interview was that the school has different learning pathways including a standard lecture and a PBL curriculum. They said at the interview that the PBL students have higher average board scores than the trad lecture pathway. I would guess that since PBL starts you on "cases" right away that you get a leg up on board style questions.

Yes, PBL is very appealing to us nontrads (I'm the oldest by far in my class). However, most of my younger classmates have commented in the past year how they hope to never have a traditional lecture again.

Having a more work-like schedule is very useful to plan your life around.
 
Like every "style", it all depends on how you learn and has it's pros and cons.

I went to an all PBL school and personally, I think a lot of the negativity towards it due to schools not really "doing it right" by trying to simply implement some sort of "small group" time amongst their traditional curriculum. I think for PBL to work it the entire curriculum needs to be organized to support it.

Also, it's not understood that well. The point of the small group session times are not to allow students to teach each other. Really, a significant portion of your knowledge should not be coming from that group time. That group time is meant for the group to come up with topics that you need to learn (basically on your own) in order to understand whatever part of the case or subject that your group is on.

So say you have a chest pain case. Well your decides that to understand the case you all need to read up on cardio physio, maybe some neuro pain pathways, cardiovascular pharm, etc.... The next time your group meets you then advance through the case and come up with more topics to read about. You may spend a LITTLE time as a group explaining a concept from the previous reading to each other if something still doesn't make since but that's not the main point of the group time.

In the beginning it can be VERY slow and there's a fair amount of faith you have to have in "the system" that in the end you'll cover all that you need to cover. At my school I'd say it took most students a good semester to really become comfortable with that kind of curriculum.

Practically, we had PBL sessions 3x/week for 2 hours each time. Each session we would pick anywhere from ~3-8 chapters/topics to read about in the various basic sciences (physio, biochem, path, pharm, neuro, genetics, immuno, etc.) During a semester we had 2-3 blocks where each block had cases that had some overlap and focused on similar issues (cardio cases, cancer cases, infectious, etc...) At the end of each block we had a exam that was basically in board exam format that covered all the topics/sciences that we had chosen to read for that particular block.

It was up to each group to move at their own pace and pick the issues that thought were important (with some input from the physician facilitator to make sure we didn't totally get off track). So while each group sometimes picked slightly different topics/chapters, overall most of the content was the same. And part of the faith was that by the end of 2 years you would cover everything you needed to. And in the end we basically covered most topics twice over the span of those 2 years.

Again, PBL is NOT the same everywhere and that's where I think the trouble comes in when a school tries to implement random small group sessions and it just ends up being a waste of the students time instead of a framework to cover the basic sciences.

I know going in that I did not want to sit through lectures all day, and I don't learn well that way. So really, I was on campus at most 2 hours a day and had the rest of the time study how I saw fit.

In regards to board review, I don't think it's any better or worse than a traditional curriculum, it's what you make of it. At my school each test was a board style exam with questions covering various sciences. It certainly wasn't a hindrance here as for the past few years we've been #1 or #2 in COMLEX Level 1 average scores among DO schools.

I know there have been multiple PBL threads on here with more detail on the specifics so I'd suggest checking those out at as well. Like I said, it's not that it's better or worse than any other curriculum, it's just what you'll be comfortable with. I can say that if you prefer the structure of a traditional style with lectures and outlined notes then you may be miserable in a PBL setting.

👍
 
PBL really is the worst. In 4 hours of PBL I learn as much as I do with 15 minutes of lecture or personal study.
However, it is great for people who like to play doctor without knowing anything and/or show how smart they think they are.
 
You also are basically are calling my faculty and school's administration inherently lazy - which I find a little slanderous.
Call it what you like, but there's a huge difference between someone getting up and lecturing on a subject and someone sort of moderating discussions between and within groups. The latter requires minimal effort on the professor's part. If you're the kind of person who'd do well learning as a PBL curriculum makes you - that is, if you learn well on your own - why would you want to go somewhere that forces you to attend classes and work at the rate of the weakest link?
 
Alright, well since you guys grabbed that end of the rope I'll pull on the other. Given that PBL is vastly different at different schools, my PBL experience was not bad at all.

We had class 20 hrs a week. That's 10 hours of group time, 10 hours of lecture and lecture attendance is not required. Even if you go to everything that's a lot of free time. Do you guys at traditional medical schools go to class less than 10 hours a week (the required attendance portion of our PBL curriculum)? If so there is no excuse for test scores at your school because you had all the time in the world to study for it. Speaking of scores, my school publishes the Step 1 mean for every year we've had the PBL curriculum: average is in the 230's the last couple of years. It's published. You can check it out.

Medical school is not like undergrad and chances are the "PBL" in one of your 5 undergrad classes is poorly done. PBL here is not a free-for-all. MDs or PhDs facilitate the cases and make sure you progress through the cases efficiently. You can disagree but then someone gets to put their money where their mouth is and present the data at the next group session...part of that whole "evidence based medicine" deal. Plus, small group face time with docs is a way to establish relationships that can get you onto research projects or into the OR as a first year student in some of that free time we have.

Anyway, PBL is not for everyone but it's not the bane of medical education. I personally found it to be a great experience, but I hate lectures. I can read on my patients all day long, sit me down for some random talk and I'm zoned out.
 
Trying to decide between a PBL style school and one that is more traditional. I heard that PBL curriculum is terrible - it is an inefficient way to study and doesn't prepare you well for the boards. Who would want to take 4 hours to learn unfiltered information from a peer when you could learn it directly from a knowledgeable expert in under 1 hour? Anyways, how are you expected to participate in PBL cases from day-1, when you will have very little foundational knowledge base?

Opinions on PBL curriculum please!
First of all, nobody to my knowledge has ever gone through both a PBL medical school curriculum and a traditional one to firsthand be able to compare. So it boils down to your personal opinion.

I could tell you how CCLCM students in particular have a lot of PBL and they crush the USMLE step 1 (and they do). But you could then argue that our students are hand-picked overachievers who would crush step 1 even if you put them in solitary confinement with an internet connection and an endless supply of pizza for a couple of years. Self-selection? Maybe. Stacking the deck? Who knows. :shrug:


The real question you are trying to ask is this:

"Will *I* do better in a PBL-based curriculum or not?"

And we can't answer that.

Now if you'll excuse me...
It's almost time for pizza...
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i'm having a hard time understanding what age has to do with PBL aptitude.
 
Call it what you like, but there's a huge difference between someone getting up and lecturing on a subject and someone sort of moderating discussions between and within groups. The latter requires minimal effort on the professor's part. If you're the kind of person who'd do well learning as a PBL curriculum makes you - that is, if you learn well on your own - why would you want to go somewhere that forces you to attend classes?

It's totally cool that you like your traditional medical school and I like my PBL medical school. You can tell people how bad you think PBL might be, but to go farther than that is disingenuous. You won't find my trashing your lecture-based curriculum even though I know it wasn't for me.
 
Older students tend to be a bit more mature </blatantstereotype>. Maturity helps in PBL.

:laugh: Now now, Myuu...it's more of we can't sleep-in and like to get our learning in before the prune juice hits us. Plus the malls aren't open first thing in the morning, so if gives us someplace to walk to... 😛

Hey, bleargh - my furry friend, I didn't say aptitude, I said appealing! I should have said relatively more appealing...more like work, you know? I guess I am not turned off by "mandatory attendance". Maybe other nontrads have issues with it? 🙂
 
Call it what you like, but there's a huge difference between someone getting up and lecturing on a subject and someone sort of moderating discussions between and within groups.
I agree, night and day roles for the faculty in PBL and lectures. Lecturing medical students is like lecturing my kids...it's a passive learning process that often doesn't stick. :d Lecturing is easy - ask any parent. Directing self-learning is much more difficult.

But seriously, there is much more effort than you appreciate that goes into constructing and running a PBL case. Students are not left to fend for themselves. There are very specific themes and goals for each week. There may be dozens of learning objectives. The facilitator has to make sure there are no gross errors in your group group AND make sure you stay on target.

However...

The relative amount of effort put in by the faculty is beside the point. The question I still contend is whether PBL is right for a particular student. And I still argue we cannot determine that.


Al said:
The latter requires minimal effort on the professor's part. If you're the kind of person who'd do well learning as a PBL curriculum makes you - that is, if you learn well on your own - why would you want to go somewhere that forces you to attend classes and work at the rate of the weakest link?

I think you are not gasping the concept of PBL - you don't (usually) argue or "work". You divide and conquer. You identify group knowledge gaps at the beginning of the week, send people off to learn on their own, regroup and teach each other as the "expert".

You go very in depth on your assigned task for the week -almost always you go way more in-depth than ever required for USMLE. Since you are responsible for the whole group's learning, and you come back and defend what you learned, usually you do a really good job of learning your topic.

Often, they way it works is that if you know that you are deficient, say, in biochemistry you volunteer to learn it for the group's sake. It is a self-correcting process.

My PharmD classmate doesn't take pharmacology topics for the group, but he is quick to correct mistakes in pharm discussions as he is the expert. Likewise, I don't take the electrical physiology or medical device-related topics, as I wouldn't be learning.

You force yourself to keep pace with your classmates. If you can't, you don't actually slow down the group. If it is obvious someone isn't getting something - the group moves on anyways. The upside of this is that you become VERY aware of your shortcomings in PBL.

But...

I digress, you and I still can't answer the OP's REAL question of whether PBL is right for him/her. This cannot be answered.

The OP might as well have a poll for current med students asking if they love or hate it.

My only reason for posting on this thread is because the haters do a disservice by making gross generalizations about PBL, when really both sides are offering opinions - only some of which are even based on anecdotal experience with PBL.
 
My school isn't PBL 'based' but it has a lot of PBL anyway and my experience with it has been awful. I'm sure it can be 'done right', and in my three years in medical school I have only had a single teacher that ran good small groups and I doon't think the average is much higher anywhere else

My opinion is that you should expect your school to do whatever they do badly. If they lecture expect the lectures to be tangential and useless for your tests and boards. If they do PBL expect the small groups to be poorly written, poorly guided, equally tangential, and made up of clashing personalities. There are no good options

The good news is that you can do superior small group learning by finding your own study partners and working through cases, just as you can find superior lectures online when your school's aren't up to par (Goljan, for example). The best school is the one that leaves you with the most time to create a useful cirriculum for yourself, because the time you spend with them is often very low yield. The fastest way to learn the material is usually to have nothing at mandatory on the schedule except for exams.

PBL isn't a poor system because it's a particularly bad model for teaching, it's a poor system because it means if you end up hating it you won't be allowed to leave.
 
Older students tend to be a bit more mature </blatantstereotype>. Maturity helps in PBL.

:laugh: Now now, Myuu...it's more of we can't sleep-in and like to get our learning in before the prune juice hits us. Plus the malls aren't open first thing in the morning, so if gives us someplace to walk to... 😛

Hey, bleargh - my furry friend, I didn't say aptitude, I said appealing! I should have said relatively more appealing...more like work, you know? I guess I am not turned off by "mandatory attendance". Maybe other nontrads have issues with it? 🙂
i see i see. i still don't really see it as a maturity issue as much as it is a personality issue. a bit ironically, i'm big into going to class, but something about mandatory just really turns me off. it must be my rebelliousness :horns:😎:horns:
 
So, my school has a weird mix of things. We have traditional lectures, we have PBL, and we have case discussions, small group discussions, problem sets, etc.

Our PBL sessions are once a week (for roughly 2 hours). We are given a case to work through, and we work through the entire case, then go home and research some aspect of the case on our own. The next week, before we dive into the next case, we go over our learning objectives from the past week.

The way most groups do it is a joke. They pick really easy learning objectives and look things up on wikipedia 5 minutes before class starts. The way my group does it actually facilitates learning... we're required to teach our learning objectives to our group members. Our mentor then asks us questions for clarification if we didn't get it just right. And we have to use resources that will be available to us in practice... things like up-to-date and journals. We're also given the option of going to the ER once a week to interview patients in lieu of the presentation. So either way, we're learning something.

Honestly, I don't get much out of my group members' presentations. I may remember a few things here and there, but in general, I don't. I do, however, generally remember the things that I've had to present.

It's not perfect, but I do enjoy it, and it depends a lot on how you learn and what your group is like as to whether or not you'll get anything out of it.
 
All you need to know is that PBL=required attendance. I find it a horribly inefficient and frustrating system to learn in that basically ends up just being an excuse for the school to not bother teaching you the material, but since required attendance med schools are something you want to avoid at all costs, it doesn't really matter how well or poorly PBL works.

👍 pbl sucks. waste of time.
 
Again, if it's done right, it's amazing (if you're big into not having information spoon-fed to you).

If it's done half-assed, people hate it. With gusto.
 
Okay - so it seems like most people who do PBL like it, and most who are in a traditional curriculum look down on it. Wonder why

Is there anyone out there who enrolled themselves in a full-blown PBL school like Mizzou or Case Western and ended up not liking it?
 
One additional factor to consider - are these schools Pass /Fail? I really like PBL but GRADING PBL is a very arbitrary thing. When everything is Pass/Fail that is fine. You should be able to fail to PBL only if you do not show up, ridicule other members or are an extremely obnoxious person. But when a facilitators random PBL grade or small group grade goes into factoring whether your overall grade is Honors/Pass/Fail of A/B/C etc. things can get confusing. Because distinguishing between a bunch of bright students on the basis of what they say or do in PBL is really very random.

I really loved PBL learning, but you've got to consider this from all aspects. Just my 2 cents...
 
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One additional factor to consider - are these schools Pass /Fail? I really like PBL but GRADING PBL is a very arbitrary thing. When everything is Pass/Fail that is fine. You should be able to fail to PBL only if you do not show up, ridicule other members or are an extremely obnoxious person. But when a facilitators random PBL grade or small group grade goes into factoring whether your overall grade is Honors/Pass/Fail of A/B/C etc. you quickly grow to resent the PBL even if you learn very well from it. Because distinguishing between a bunch of bright students on the basis of what they say or do in PBL is really very random.

Just mt 2 cents...


Damn. I did not even consider this, the school I am looking at is not Pass/Fail in their PBL.
 
We're PBL-based and pass/fail. None of that fake pass/fail honors/high pass/pass nonsense.
 
asdf
 
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Good discussion points all around.

But what I don't understand is this: there are 168 hours in a week, yet the anti-PBLers have repeatedly brought up mandatory attendance, which from my understanding usually amounts to a CRAZY 15 hrs./wk. or less. Seriously... that's less than 10% of your time. What's the big deal here? I'm not convinced that time alone is the best reason to go with a more traditional curriculum.
 
I go to a traditional sch with PBL/CBL components sprinkled in...

This is how I feel... watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcnFbCCgTo4

Replace "golf" with med school curriculum..

PBL/CBL and small group sessions = sand bunkers, trees, lakes in golf...
 
Wow I am amazed at the amount of people who oppose PBL style curriculums.

Mizzou heralds their PBL as THE high point of the school - they have "studies" that show that their board scores skyrocketed after implementing the curriculum in 1997. I find it amusing that these studies were done by professors at the school itself.

It's really hard for me to tell what it will be like. I am in a PBL-style capstone class at my undergraduate school, and I absolutely hate it - but, I have no way of knowing how similar it will be to the actual PBL cases at MU's school of medicine.

Mizzou is my state school, so it will be MUCH cheaper than my other options - I just cannot tell whether the fit will be right... I'm a fairly social person, and enjoy working in groups most of the time, but I can't stand the thought of getting stuck in PBL groups with people I can't stand (gunners) and having to learn under such circumstances the whole time I'm at that school.

ARGH!!!
 
asdf
 
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I looked into this PBL stuff pretty heavily the last two years - like a nerd (go figure). I'm pretty excited about the intentions and ideas behind PBL. As a former educator, I can see that it's designed to implement current "best practices" (i.e. interpersonal small groups, interactive learning, making the content relevant, spiraling - repeated exposure - of the content, uncovering misconceptions, and going in depth on a topic as opposed to skimming the surface).

I see a lot of reference here to personal learning styles and preferences, but if you're seriously trying to make a well-educated decision, I think it's good to note that oftentimes the best learning takes place when you are outside of your comfort zone. Some people can absorb and regurgitate information from passive learning in a lecture, but real mastery is demonstrated by taking learned material and applying it to novel situations/scenarios. PBL, if implemented thoughtfully, gives students a chance to interact meaningfully with new concepts. By explaining/presenting/verbalizing your understanding to fellow students, you are forced to really know what you are talking about - or to acknowledge where your understanding is weak. It helps self-assess where you're at.

Lectures can cover a broad range of material quickly - but that doesn't necessarily make it more "efficient." For example, I can lecture about the Cold War to high school students for months at a time, but having them walk into a bomb shelter, duck and cover under their desk, and tour the hollowed-out mountain NORAD headquarters will stick with them way more than anything I say because they experienced and interacted with it.

I do see potential caveats to PBL programs:

  • it won't work if the participants don't participate and stay engaged
  • students shouldn't be expected to learn from other students - although the teaching opportunities are great for the presenters
  • unless assignments are designed well, small groups typically result in unbalanced workloads
  • spending hours each day forced to interact with type-a personalities could get old and interfere with your motivation
  • it takes more energy than sitting in (or video streaming) a lecture
 
Ok, there seems to be a significant difference in what people mean when they say 'PBL'. Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but it would seem like the people who've 'done' PBL and hate it are attending schools where you occasionally meet in a 'small' group (smaller than lecture, anyway), are introduced to a new problem, and are expected to solve it (investigate it?) while you're sitting there in the 2-3 hour session (or by the next time you meet, which isn't often).

While that strategy may involve a problem, it doesn't seem to involve a lot of learning.

If your school does this, your curriculum is not PBL-based. Think of it as something your school's course directors threw in to make the LCME say "ooh, how progressive" when they do the accreditation dance (or the impress-the-applicants-with-fancy-buzzwords dance). It is a terrible way for most people to learn and I'm not really sure what anyone could possibly get out of it other than a mild to moderate headache and an unhealthy dislike for your facilitator or classmates.

What is a PBL-based curriculum then?

In a PBL-based curriculum (based on my completely scientific sample of n=1, possibly 2, if you count us as two different programs), these small group learning sessions are a primary means of stimulating students to do independent learning. None of that primary information gathering and processing should occur during the discussion, unless someone's not pulling his or her weight (which will be made clear (oh, yes) in the peer feedback that closes every session).

As I've stated before, the way we do it is 2 hours every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. We get two cases in the form of clinical vignettes on Monday, which we go through (with facilitator guidance, if necessary) and determine block-related objectives based on the content of the vignettes. You are not in any way expected (or even advised) to learn or research information during this time. You then leave (if you want) and go do research on the learning objectives based on the suggested resources you've been given (a handful of topic-specific reads) and are free to pick and choose what works best for you so that you retain the information better. Again, the goal is not to force you to read things for the amusement of the faculty, as entertaining as that might be. The goal is for you to learn. By this point, the topic has either already been covered in the lectures or will be the following day (yay, double coverage!). I guess this would be a good time to point out that we have class from 8am until noon, so it's not like you sit through a zillion hours of ritualized low-temp mindnumbing, too.

Having found the information you seek and a way to internalize it that suits you, you return to the group on Wednesday (and Friday for the other case, if the topics suit a split in that manner--they usually do) for a lively discussion on what you've found out. You will find that most, if not all people have found factually accurate information that they could easily regurgitate to you, if prompted. Very rarely is that sort of thing prompted. As a matter of fact, we discourage that. Topics that everyone knows, we make sure to cover, yes, but where the beauty of the system lies in the details and nuances that, despite your academic pedigree, you found confusing. Your classmates may have also encountered difficulties in this or other areas. But, thankfully, within your group of 8-9 students, with their different personalities, different ways of learning, and different life experiences, there is (nearly) always someone (or several) who's understood the topic and can explain/illustrate how it works. The ensuing discussion is where concepts are reinforced and solidified. Sometimes, you're that person. While you might think that you'll just teach everyone, you'll find that verbalizing that information (taking it from one modality and forcing yourself to transform it to another) cements it further in your mind.

In summary: win-win.


(Also, at the university program, all students research all learning objectives. Splitting them up might seem easier, but in the end, I don't think it helps anyone, as you won't learn a topic you haven't researched if you haven't put in the work.)
 
+1

N does equal 2
Computers are not allowed during PBL at CCLCM. Books maybe, but I don't think anyone has tried bringing books to class yet. 😛

2nd years often run "discussion LOs" where everyone researches and comes back for coffee talk. However, 1st years seem to favor the divide and conquer - however there is no rule about it.
 
We're allowed computers, but the group will let you know (constructively) if you're gazing at it a bit too lovingly instead of participating in discussion.

Divide and conquer is forbidden here.
 
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