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PC trying to throw me under the bus
- Thread starter Propofol7
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She should do her job and send a SLOE in a reasonable time frame (whatever that is). Anything short of that is unprofessional.
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I feel for you because you're making what sounds like a reasonable request. Are you asking her to email several programs this SLOE directly, or to send it to you and you'll send it out, albeit with less weight since you'll have seen the letter? If it's the former, then keep in mind that this doesn't happen very often and you probably shouldn't have sent 4 letters out if you knew you had another SLOE you could want to send out. But by no means is it her responsibility to do anything other than upload the letter to ERAS. At the same time, the PD gave her the ok to do it, so I'm not sure what her hangup is and you're rightly frustrated about that.
You probably didn't make friends with the PC - you basically went to her boss because you didn't like her answer and the CC'd email clearly indicate this. Hopefully you haven't lost points with the PD.
The bottom line is that there isn't much you can do about this now and I would just let this issue go. There's no guarantee that this will have any negative consequences on you but further communication with the PD or PC could certainly do that.
You probably didn't make friends with the PC - you basically went to her boss because you didn't like her answer and the CC'd email clearly indicate this. Hopefully you haven't lost points with the PD.
The bottom line is that there isn't much you can do about this now and I would just let this issue go. There's no guarantee that this will have any negative consequences on you but further communication with the PD or PC could certainly do that.
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It's been awhile since I matched, but back then we could upload extra SLOR's (yep, they were SLOR's then), but only release the appropriate number to each program. Are you no longer able to do this?
One more thing you can do is to forward the PC's reply to the program that is "looking forward" to reading the SLOE in question. BE NICE and say something like. "I've asked The University of Marshall Stacks to email their SLOE to you. It was great meeting with you during the interview. Thanks."
One more thing you can do is to forward the PC's reply to the program that is "looking forward" to reading the SLOE in question. BE NICE and say something like. "I've asked The University of Marshall Stacks to email their SLOE to you. It was great meeting with you during the interview. Thanks."
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It may also have been a completely innocuous response that was misinterpreted as passive aggressive. From the mouths of some people (such as myself) "I'll try" means just that - I'm going to genuinely try and get this done for you, but I won't give a guarantee until it's actually said and done.
From a well-being standpoint, there is essentially no benefit, and plenty of harm, in projecting any malevolence into a reply such as "I'll try."
What if I go to the PD and clear everything up in a calm collected manner. Is it possible he'll at least see both sides of it then? Because clearly in this case I'm basically a stranger vs. his employee; easy loss for me.
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You violated rule #1 of applying to residency, bro. DON'T PISS OFF THE COORDINATOR.
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For whatever it's worth, I have a friend who was in a similar boat, i.e. already had 4 letters on ERAS and wanted to get an additional SLOE sent to programs. Apparently, the PD/PC at his away site said they couldn't "send" the SLOE to other residencies because there's some sort of agreement between CORD (who provides the SLOE template) and ERAS that SLOEs are only supposed to be distributed through ERAS. I don't know if this is true, or not, but the way it was resolved (in ridiculous fashion) was that programs were calling the away rotation site and they were reading the SLOE comments to them.
Your mileage may vary, and your particular PC may in fact be lazy and spiteful, but there may be more to it than meets the eye.
Your mileage may vary, and your particular PC may in fact be lazy and spiteful, but there may be more to it than meets the eye.
I did the same thing, politely reminding the PC to send my letter several times, and I believe that's what led to me not matching my #1. Who knows though. I would just send a nice email to the PC apologizing for any negative impressions and that you didn't mean to come across that way. The PD has enough other stuff to worry about that I wouldn't bug him/her again
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Ok look at it this way. Why do they interview us? They like us on paper and want to see if we're a good fit for the residency. Does creating a bunch of drama with the coordinator strike you as being a good fit?
Also, in a battle of he said she said who do you think the PD is going to side with?
Well unfortunately for me, the drama is already created it and I'm assuming he's already siding with her. I don't think I can make it worse, and I am hopeful that perhaps I can make it better. I'd show him all the emails so the he/she said doesn't have to be though not sure he'll care to read them.
kinda tough now. PC have huge influence over the rank lists. im pretty sure thats why i matched where i did (PC and i got along very well). you already violated to rule. 4 LOR should already be enough. you can try and smooth it over but id keep it simple. good luck
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It can get worse. You have no idea if this situation to them is as big as it is to you, but corresponding more will almost certainly make it worse.
Think about it this way: if you're the PD, are you going to risk one of your residents being somebody who needed to try and defend his/herself against a staff person? Right now this is something that MAYBE the PC is going to grumble to the PD about. But if you try to confront it, it's CERTAINLY going to be on the PD's radar.
Think about it this way: if you're the PD, are you going to risk one of your residents being somebody who needed to try and defend his/herself against a staff person? Right now this is something that MAYBE the PC is going to grumble to the PD about. But if you try to confront it, it's CERTAINLY going to be on the PD's radar.
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deleted109597
Yep. Just tell the other places to contact that PD if they want feedback, because all you can do is request the SLOR.
Of course, if other programs are interested in seeing it, that means your other letters might not bet that great, or that they have misgivings. Nobody cares about a second, third, or fourth "great student with excellent capabilities to become a doctor". They want to see the "doesn't work well with others" or "pisses off the PC frequently" ones.
Of course, if other programs are interested in seeing it, that means your other letters might not bet that great, or that they have misgivings. Nobody cares about a second, third, or fourth "great student with excellent capabilities to become a doctor". They want to see the "doesn't work well with others" or "pisses off the PC frequently" ones.
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1) Anyone who said they are interested in reading this letter immediately forgot about it the second you left the room. Don't even worry about it.
2) The way most residencies rank applicants is some sort of number system that is determined upon your initial application and adjusted based on interview. VERY LITTLE MOVEMENT OCCURS AFTER THIS UNLESS YOU DO SOMETHING TO PISS PEOPLE OFF *HINT HINT*
3) You are already up **** creek without a paddle. I would not advise to shoot a hole in your boat as well in this situation.
4) I know these things because I am special.
5) I just ate a really good burrito.
6) In summary chill out and don't do anything else regarding this and it will all work out.
7) Or don't listen to me, your call!
2) The way most residencies rank applicants is some sort of number system that is determined upon your initial application and adjusted based on interview. VERY LITTLE MOVEMENT OCCURS AFTER THIS UNLESS YOU DO SOMETHING TO PISS PEOPLE OFF *HINT HINT*
3) You are already up **** creek without a paddle. I would not advise to shoot a hole in your boat as well in this situation.
4) I know these things because I am special.
5) I just ate a really good burrito.
6) In summary chill out and don't do anything else regarding this and it will all work out.
7) Or don't listen to me, your call!
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Don't fu*kin do that. That's some borderline personality disorder level stuff.
You seem to be under the impression that this is a battle that you can win. It is not. Nobody gives a **** about seeing the full picture on this, or justice, or whatever. As a medical student they just want you to quietly be like everyone else who tries to make as few waves as possible. This is the opposite of that .
The only thing that is left to be determined is how badly you lose. A slightly over the top apology (but not to the level where people think it's insincere) is probably the way you lose the least.
Escalating it to the pd again is probably the biggest loss
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It's done. The pd either cares or does not care and there's nothing to be done.
lol
In regards to #2, don't programs rank applicants early Feb with everyone sitting around a table going through the applications again? I was under the impression that it's when everything is finalized.
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I've been part of this small table discussion before and as stated above, the brunt of decisions and ranking gets made after each interview day. There are very small tweaks made in either direction after interview season is over these next couple of weeks. Things that would influence things in a slightly positive direction would be a significant increase in Step 2 or a missing SLOE that is stellar. Things that would negatively influence things include a significant decrease in Step 2, a missing SLOE that is bad, or something like you're describing (getting into an e-mail fight with the coordinator).
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Ohhh! What kind of burrito?
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Carne asada super burrito. I dunno what makes it super but it's a very accurate description.
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Actually, I care less about the meat than the style.
Mission, SanDiego, smothered, etc...?
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Mission or GTFO....
Also, as many others have mentioned - don't piss of the PC. Many of them are the only reason the residency actually functions. PD's make top level decisions, set direction of program, etc. The actual amount of paperwork required to run a program is not possible for the PD to perform solo. There's no chance a PD would side against a PC for a student's benefit. A highly functioning PC is mission critical for a program and since they're typically not getting pay commensurate with their level of responsibility everyone goes out of their way to make the PC feel appreciated.
At my program there was exactly one person that could unilaterally keep you off the rank list. Of course, it was the PC. She happened to have the patience of a saint and the mind of an airtraffic controller so when we saw a student laying into her it evoked much the same reaction as watching someone beat an elderly nun on the sidewalk. It's completely possible the nun deserved it but the attacker is going to have a significantly uphill battle justifying it.
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Better try one smothered in green chile before you tell me to GTFO (though if we're talking hand-held, then it's Mission for me).
Otherwise, great post.
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Mission. Wrapped in foil.
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It's been so long since I've eaten a burrito that wasn't hand-held (or eaten a burrito while sitting down even). I just had fajitas last week smothered in green chile and that was legit.
PD cares for sure.
Everyone not granted an interview from hospitals gets the same message: "sorry, but due to the large amount of qualified applicants..etc." If there are so many qualified people they need factors to differentiate and back and forth apology emails and rants are a pretty good way to knock someone out. If I was a PD I would definitely be like, ok peace out guy/girl. This isn't even worst case scenario. Imagine if this PD contacts your SLOE writers (seen it happen) or other programs (heard about it from other PD's). These are unlikely but just something to consider.
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Thanks for all the feedback. I won't bring it up with the PD. I may just go in and apologize again to the PC, and hopefully she can relay a message to the PD that I'm not really a jerk as I was made out to be.
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Bro just stop while you're behind
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Nope. Stop. No more. If you run into her on an unrelated thing, then whatever, otherwise no.
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da8s0859q
Stop.
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Geeeezzzz..... This thread is hilarious and advice OP wasn't ready for. If I was a PD/PC and read this thread, this is what I would think:
Op wants to be a Doc and can't even fix such a simple issue? Do I really want someone who will make a mountain out of a mole hill for 3 yrs? Is he going to go to the top every time there is a dispute?
This should be a good life lesson to learn not just for OP but for everyone. Keep life simple. Don't stress over the small stuff. Don't stress out on things you have very little control over. EVERYTHING always works out in the end. Its better to be nice than confrontational.
What OP should have done is email PC the requests. Then bring her flowers/gift card/movie tickets the next day to thank her for going out of her way to do me a favor. Walk away knowing you did a nice/generous deed and 99% of the time, the PC will stop everything to send the letter out.
It costs you $25 bucks, made someone's day, and got the results you wanted. It also will provide more fruits in the future in some form or fashion. Who knows, she may be hiring you for a job in the future. This will be something she will remember forever and you will always be in her good graces.
Op wants to be a Doc and can't even fix such a simple issue? Do I really want someone who will make a mountain out of a mole hill for 3 yrs? Is he going to go to the top every time there is a dispute?
This should be a good life lesson to learn not just for OP but for everyone. Keep life simple. Don't stress over the small stuff. Don't stress out on things you have very little control over. EVERYTHING always works out in the end. Its better to be nice than confrontational.
What OP should have done is email PC the requests. Then bring her flowers/gift card/movie tickets the next day to thank her for going out of her way to do me a favor. Walk away knowing you did a nice/generous deed and 99% of the time, the PC will stop everything to send the letter out.
It costs you $25 bucks, made someone's day, and got the results you wanted. It also will provide more fruits in the future in some form or fashion. Who knows, she may be hiring you for a job in the future. This will be something she will remember forever and you will always be in her good graces.
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