Pchem?

[305602]

Hey all,

I'm a rising sophomore and biochem major right now.
I know the general advice on SDN is to pick the major you're interested in, yet also the major that you'll get A's in hah.
I'm more interested in the biochem major's curriculum than the curriculum for the standard bio major, but I don't want to destroy my GPA when it comes time to take classes like pchem, biopchem, inorganic chem, etc.
I got straight A's in both semesters of gchem this year so I figure if anyone is qualified to do well in the harder chem classes its me.
What're your thoughts on this. I know these classes will be very challenging, but are they at all doable? Or is taking them literally committing GPA-suicide?

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[ChemistWiz]

Hey all,

I'm a rising sophomore and biochem major right now.
I know the general advice on SDN is to pick the major you're interested in, yet also the major that you'll get A's in hah.
I'm more interested in the biochem major's curriculum than the curriculum for the standard bio major, but I don't want to destroy my GPA when it comes time to take classes like pchem, biopchem, inorganic chem, etc.
I got straight A's in both semesters of gchem this year so I figure if anyone is qualified to do well in the harder chem classes its me.
What're your thoughts on this. I know these classes will be very challenging, but are they at all doable? Or is taking them literally committing GPA-suicide?

If you like something, you should be able to endure the **** you don't like in it, right?

Just take it, and study your *** off. I'm sure you"ll come up with classes in Med school you hate, but you HAVE to take, this is good practice.

 

[305602]

Yeah but it's more than being able to endure pchem because I'd like to get in to medical school.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

If you like something, you should be able to endure the **** you don't like in it, right?

Just take it, and study your *** off. I'm sure you"ll come up with classes in Med school you hate, but you HAVE to take, this is good practice.

I like things too. But pchem is notorious for being 30 hours a week of work with the lab, that my friend is a relationship.

 

[FSAP]

I took real PChem instead of watered down version for Biochem majors in order to graduate a semester early and it was tough. It did not kill my GPA but it was a lot of work that in a hindsight was unnecessary.

 

[Dannyw]

Lots of people do fine in pchem, but those people are very good at math. At my school calc III is required for it.

 

[305602]

My school doesn't offer a watered-down version of Pchem designed for biochem majors. The only difference in the curriculum between chem and biochem majors as far as it comes to pchem is that biochem majors are only required to take one semester (thank god) whereas chem majors must take two.
And yeah at my school only calc II is a pre-req for the course and calc III is "recommended."

I'm not really trying to take calc III

 

[ChemistWiz]

Difficulty aside if you can handle that, you can handle med school right? if you fear you'll fail, then you'll probably fail.

 

[305602]

Difficulty aside if you can handle that, you can handle med school right? if you fear you'll fail, then you'll probably fail.

I'm not concerned that I'll fail ChemistWiz. And if you haven't taken pchem or have experience with any truly difficult classes then your comments are truly as vacuous as they seem.

 

[unleash500]

I took a watered down pchem for biochemistry, and I must say that it wasn't too difficult compared to other biochem courses, at least for my university.
The curve was always pretty generous as well.

 

[latrala2300]

i took p chem I and it was literally more work than the rest of my classes (physics II, genetics, a few others i can't remember) combined. and i got a B. needless to say i won't be taking p chem II lol

 

[Dannyw]

My school doesn't offer a watered-down version of Pchem designed for biochem majors. The only difference in the curriculum between chem and biochem majors as far as it comes to pchem is that biochem majors are only required to take one semester (thank god) whereas chem majors must take two.
And yeah at my school only calc II is a pre-req for the course and calc III is "recommended."

I'm not really trying to take calc III

Don't sweat it. It's one class. Just work extra hard.

 

[christina30]

Don't be a wimp. I took pchem, survived, and got into med school. I believe one of my biggest pchem exams was the day before my MCAT - suck on that!

But seriously, it's just a class. Plenty of people major in chemistry and go onto med school, so it's not like achieving a decent grade in p.chem is some impossible feat.

 

[jm192]

It was easily one of the hardest classees I've ever taken.

I took it Spring Semester Senior year though. Got a B, but was already accepted. If you're worreid about GPA, that's my advice---spring right before you graduate.

 

[Bacchus]

I'm not concerned that I'll fail ChemistWiz. And if you haven't taken pchem or have experience with any truly difficult classes then your comments are truly as vacuous as they seem.

Based on available info, he's a HS student.

 

[LawNonTrad]

I like things too. But pchem is notorious for being 30 hours a week of work with the lab, that my friend is a relationship.

From what I've heard, organic can be too. The three or four people I know who got an A in orgo 1 at my school studied at least 25 hours a week (all but 3 of were for lab). People who studied only 15 hours a week for it were getting B's and B+'s. I plan on budgeting 3.5 hours a day to study it this semester so that I will be in contention for an A. It's a curved class so I figure that if I study smartly and study twice as much as the average student that maybe I can get lucky and pull one out (or at least an A-).

 

[chutzpah]

I managed to get A's in the class and lab for both semesters of Pchem, but I have a solid math background (math minor). It also was a lot of work and I hardly had any social life that year. (12 hour exams anyone?)

 

[indya]

Most people take p-chem senior year, so it doesn't affect their MCAT scores (because they've probably already taken the MCAT)? Is P-Chem valuable in medical school then?

 

[jm192]

Most people take p-chem senior year, so it doesn't affect their MCAT scores (because they've probably already taken the MCAT)? Is P-Chem valuable in medical school then?

No.

There are some cool concepts that can be tied in with Biology, proteins, enzymes.

But you can understand all of the stuff in medical school without ever having P-chem.

 

[305602]

The bummer for me is that I will have to take pchem first semester of my junior year (I will have just taken the MCAT by then). So my pchem grade will be included in my GPA when it comes time to apply at the end of junior year

 

[LawNonTrad]

No.

There are some cool concepts that can be tied in with Biology, proteins, enzymes.

But you can understand all of the stuff in medical school without ever having P-chem.

So why are calc 1 and 2 recommended by almost every medical school? I too thought that calc is pretty useless for medical school. I took Calc BC in 11th grade and used that for calc 1 and 2 credit in undergrad (and never took any higher math because it wasn't required for my major). However, aside from the calculus that I'm facing in gen chem 2 right now (the professor uses it in examples and we're expected to use it on exams for rate-order problems, instantaneous rate of change, etc.), I don't see why it's necessary. Is it because it's a weed-out course? I thought that's part of the reason they require o-chem (that and because it undoubtedly helps for biochemistry)? Why recommend calc if you don't need math in medical school? Hmm.

From the tiny bit that I know about p-chem, I understand why they require calculus, but I don't understand why I am expected to do calculus on my gen chem exams. I understand that the calculus I'm expected to do is rather basic (simple derivatives), but intermediate algebra was the only listed prereq for gen chem II. It seems rather lame to utilize calculus in gen chem II because I'm sure the majority of us will never take p-chem. I have no interest in taking a stupid, difficult and time-consuming course like that if it's not required.

 

[chutzpah]

study tips

My school split pchem into thermo and quantum semesters. For quantum having a good background in calc 2 helped alot, only thing you would need to know from calc 3 would be partial derivs and double integrations which wouldn't be so hard to self study. I suppose it really depends how hard your prof is (i.e. if he makes you deriv the hamiltonian for really complicated systems etc). Linear algebra also helps later on but if you remember how to manipulate 3x3 and higher matrices from hs you should be okay. I felt that chemistry played a major role, but it was more concept based in that you needed to know the theory in order to understand what mathematical manipulations you had to do.

Thermo for me had a lot of general chemistry-type topics so a lot of it was review except they went more into the theory. I felt that the only math that was really relevant was partial derivatives. The professor I had didn't really like thermo that much so he basically condensed the entire semester into one and a half months and moved on to stat thermo for the rest of the semester which you probably won't encounter.

In terms of studying, I mainly did the book problems, redid the classroom derivations and went to office hours regularly for help on topics that needed clarification. If you have the math part of class down (mainly just really solid integration and derivation skills) it's already half the battle.

Note: My views may not reflect your experiences at your university so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

 

[TheCatalyst]

I got an A in P-Chem without having taken Physics yet.... and would even advise Physics majors NOT to take P-Chem is they don't have to lol

The interesting topics end early, and the rest is just math. and more Math. Felt more like Calculus 3.5 than a Chemistry lol

It's doable, but don't do it haha

 

[jm192]

So why are calc 1 and 2 recommended by almost every medical school? I too thought that calc is pretty useless for medical school. I took Calc BC in 11th grade and used that for calc 1 and 2 credit in undergrad (and never took any higher math because it wasn't required for my major). However, aside from the calculus that I'm facing in gen chem 2 right now (the professor uses it in examples and we're expected to use it on exams for rate-order problems, instantaneous rate of change, etc.), I don't see why it's necessary. Is it because it's a weed-out course? I thought that's part of the reason they require o-chem (that and because it undoubtedly helps for biochemistry)? Why recommend calc if you don't need math in medical school? Hmm.

From the tiny bit that I know about p-chem, I understand why they require calculus, but I don't understand why I am expected to do calculus on my gen chem exams. I understand that the calculus I'm expected to do is rather basic (simple derivatives), but intermediate algebra was the only listed prereq for gen chem II. It seems rather lame to utilize calculus in gen chem II because I'm sure the majority of us will never take p-chem. I have no interest in taking a stupid, difficult and time-consuming course like that if it's not required.

I have no idea. I don't even remember now, but I'm certain calculus shows up here and there. Maybe in some gen chem spots, or physics.

P-Chem isn't required by anyone as far as I know though. It'll give you an understanding of some of the chemical concepts, and maybe even a little physics behind some of the biology. But, it's nothing you'd be tested over--and the stuff you leave the course with is a more broad set of concepts. The Biological stuff were more so examples the professor used to relate the concepts to the rest of us. For example, if you've done colligative properties in gen chem, you'll see them again in P-chem. At certain salt concentration extremes, you begin to change the solubility of proteins.

Perhaps if you read over protein solubility and sodium concentrations in your Physiology course, you can identify and appreciate the Chemical reasons behind that. But you won't ever be tested on it.

I wouldn't take P-Chem unless you're required for a major.

 

[LawNonTrad]

I have no idea. I don't even remember now, but I'm certain calculus shows up here and there. Maybe in some gen chem spots, or physics.

P-Chem isn't required by anyone as far as I know though. It'll give you an understanding of some of the chemical concepts, and maybe even a little physics behind some of the biology. But, it's nothing you'd be tested over--and the stuff you leave the course with is a more broad set of concepts. The Biological stuff were more so examples the professor used to relate the concepts to the rest of us. For example, if you've done colligative properties in gen chem, you'll see them again in P-chem. At certain salt concentration extremes, you begin to change the solubility of proteins.

Perhaps if you read over protein solubility and sodium concentrations in your Physiology course, you can identify and appreciate the Chemical reasons behind that. But you won't ever be tested on it.

I wouldn't take P-Chem unless you're required for a major.

I definitely understand why it (calculus) shows up in physics though. But I won't see it in my physics 1 class this fall because I'm taking general physics (algebra-based) as opposed to university physics (same concepts but with calculus apparently). I have the prereqs for it obviously (they actually let you take calc 1 as a co-req with physics 1 at the school, hmm) but I figure that because the MCAT only tests algebraic physics and medical schools seem okay with the courses, there's no point in taking a course that involves more work. Plus I'd have to refresh all my calc knowledge because I haven't had any calculus (besides the bit in gen chem, and that's calc 1 only, not calc 2) in over 10 years. I know some people on here have said that taking the calc-based physics helps them understand it better, but meh. I can just memorize the algebraic equations hopefully.

Um, definitely never taking P-Chem.