pediatric radiology

[Lucinda]

So my daughter had a VCUG today- I took step 1 on Wednesday. You can say we've both been through the ringer this week. At any rate, I had always thought I'd do straight up peds, but after talking w/ the peds radiologist, am now thinking I might have to pick up a 4th year elective to explore.
Can anyone give me the 101 on peds radiology - I know it's a 1 year fellowship post rads residency. What do I need to do to get there? What sort of step 1, grades, etc. I've already got some stellar LORs from academic peds chairs from time spent working with them. I'm at a small SW state school - not an AOA princess, but also not mopping the floors with my grades. About 10% above average for the class.
TIA!

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[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

The difficult part is getting into rads residency. You will find tons of info on that on this board if you do a search. It sounds like you would do ok with those grades, but need to do well on step I. Clinical (third year) grades are very important. Do well and get good letters, especially in surgery, peds (for your interests), and medicine. As long as you're there and not too annoying you should do well on your rads month.

The peds fellowships after rads are pretty wide open right now. They are dying for people to go into this field and there is a looming shortage according to a recent article on auntminnie.com (the radiology website).

 

[russellb]

The peds fellowships after rads are pretty wide open right now. They are dying for people to go into this field and there is a looming shortage according to a recent article on auntminnie.com (the radiology website).

http://www.auntminnie.com/index.asp?Sec=sup&Sub=imc&Pag=dis&ItemId=66754

 

[Vince]

See if you can set up a rotation at Indiana University with Dr. Gunderman.

 

[Lucinda]

Thanks thusfar for the replies - I've also done some searching and reading on auntminnie.

One final question - any idea how much patient time the pediatric radiologist gets - it seemed like he was pretty much just doing procedures that afternoon with patients - I'd like some interaction, but admittedly, I don't "live" to take H&P's. From my overall impression, it must have been VCUG Friday because the waiting room was full of apprehensive parents and unsuspecting kids. One bone to pick - the doc had the nerve to pimp me while my daughter was getting her cath - she and I are both crying and he's asking me about grades of reflux and how to compute bladder volume on an infant!

Thanks again.

 

[Goober]

Otuside of doing procedures, you don't get very much patient contact or time. If you are going into radiology don't expect a lot of patient contact unless you do interventional radiology which is mostly adults. The contact you get from procedures is very short and you certainly should not expect to develop a realtionship with your patients unless you have a patient that is coming back for repeated procdures and you are the one always doing them.

 

[rogshw]

Most of the people on this board are ignorant to Peds Radiology. If you have an interest in Ped Rads the SPR is trying to fast track residents in, by allowing them to do 2 years of Adult and do the remainder of your training in a Children’s Hosp.

Doing a rotation at say Penn State where the department head is a famous Peds Rad (Dr. Eggli) may be of assistance to you. Besides they have an actual Peds Rads rotation

Cheers

 

[Lucinda]

Most of the people on this board are ignorant to Peds Radiology. If you have an interest in Ped Rads the SPR is trying to fast track residents in, by allowing them to do 2 years of Adult and do the remainder of your training in a Children’s Hosp.

Doing a rotation at say Penn State where the department head is a famous Peds Rad (Dr. Eggli) may be of assistance to you. Besides they have an actual Peds Rads rotation

Cheers

Thanks Rogshw - How do I find more on the SPR's initiative to fasttrack residents - My #1 concern was actually having to do the adult rads for 3 years. Would it be possible to do my intern year in peds? or must it be in surgery or medicine. again, thanks.

 

[Goober]

Thanks Rogshw - How do I find more on the SPR's initiative to fasttrack residents - My #1 concern was actually having to do the adult rads for 3 years. Would it be possible to do my intern year in peds? or must it be in surgery or medicine. again, thanks.

You can do intern year in peds. In the standard radiology residency you spend 4 years not 3 in adult radiology and 3 months of which is in peds. You could do extra electives in Peds radiology depending on your residency. The fast track initiative is not a reality yet and may not become one by the time you apply. I would caution against any program that is only 2 years in adult radiology because when it comes time to take the ABR oral and written exams only 10% of it is pediatric radiology. 2 years of adult radiology would make it very difficult to pass the oral section in my opinion. Plus you have to recertify in radiology every 10 years which will also include 90% adult radiology. In my view you have to approach Pediatric radiology as a subsepcialty of radiology not as a Peds subspecialty which is the impression you seem to give.

 

[Docxter]

Most of the people on this board are ignorant to Peds Radiology. If you have an interest in Ped Rads the SPR is trying to fast track residents in, by allowing them to do 2 years of Adult and do the remainder of your training in a Children’s Hosp.

The American board of radiology requires 4 years of residency training, 27 months of which must in clinical radiology. No more than 12 moths of time is allowed to be spent in any one field of radiology. Therefore, as it stands, the above initiative cannot be done, unless the rules change.


"I didn't know that the PEDRAP" program was recently approved when I wrote the above paragraph". I guess it's now possible with ABRs blessing."

Doing a rotation at say Penn State where the department head is a famous Peds Rad (Dr. Eggli) may be of assistance to you.

You can get a peds fellowship easily out of residency. It is very noncompetitive.

Besides they have an actual Peds Rads rotation

If you're talking about residency rotations, so does every other radiology residency in the country. A minimum of 3 months pediatric radiology rotation is mandatory. If you're talking about med student electives, well that's different.

 

[f_w]

If you are really bent on doing peds radiology, check out the new pathway offered by the ABR for people like you. Peds radiology has a tremendous man(and woman)power shortage. Most jobs are in academic practice, with the current job situation in the general radiology market, this is not going to change anytime soon. (In addition to the financial disincentives to go into peds radiology, you also have to deal with pediatricians. I am not sure what it is about them, but I would rather have my finger and toenails pulled out one at a time than sitting through another childrens hospital radiology demonstation.)
Here is the information on the new peds-radiology pathway. The good thing is that you will still be board certified in general radiology. So, if you are not so thrilled about peds after 5 years, you can still do a fellowship in any of the 'adult' radiology specialties (the '' because in fact most 'adult' specialists see a good number of pedi cases in their subspecialy):

http://www.theabr.org/DRAppAndFeesinFrame.htm

(click on PEDRAP on the left side of the page)

Pediatric Emphasis Diagnostic Radiology Alternative Pathway
(PEDRAP)



This is a provisional pilot with ABR oversight to provide increased emphasis on pediatric radiology training (hopefully encouraging those with pediatric clinical training and an interest in pursuing Pediatric Radiology as a career) .

*

ABR-reviewed and -approved
*

Following are the critical features of the pathway:

1.

Residents entering the pathway will need one year of clinical training prior to beginning the core diagnostic radiology program.

2.

The core diagnostic imaging training will include:

a. Adult-oriented radiology training—2 years

b. Pediatric-oriented radiology training—2 years

c. Total training (including clinical year)—5 years



A prototype training program is outlined below (a detailed program must be submitted by the sponsoring program and approved by the ABR).

3.

This pathway will lead to ABR certification in diagnostic radiology, but will not meet the qualification requirements to take the subspecialty (CAQ) examination in pediatric radiology. An additional year of training in an ACGME-accredited fellowship program will be required for the candidate to be eligible for the subspecialty exam.

4.

This plan maintains the general scheme by which the Holman Pathway is administered, with a similar number of months in the adult radiology training core. The major change is the emphasis on the pediatric radiology training core. Although there will be greater than 12 months of exposure to pediatric radiology, the exposure is distributed over the other nine disciplines of radiology within the pediatric specialty.

5.

The ultimate plan may be instituted in parent programs or in institutions that have integrated or affiliate relationships with children’s hospitals. In the second scenario, permission must granted for rotations longer than six months outside the parent organization, but within the integrated or affiliated institution.

6.

Approximately five programs will be considered for the pilot program project. Programs committing to this plan should have the support of the fellowship director, the residency program director, and the chairs of the parent and affiliated institutions. This support should be documented in a letter to ABR.

The following programs have been approved by the ABR for PEDRAP participation:



Baylor College of Medicine

Pedro J. Diaz-Marchan, MD

Director, Diagnostic Radiology Residency

Baylor College of Medicine

Department of Radiology

One Baylor Plaza – BCM 360

Houston, TX 77030-3498

Phone: 713-798-6362

Fax: 713-798-8359

Email: [email protected]



St. Christopher’s Hospital for Children/Hahnemann University Hospital/Drexel University College of Medicine

Robert A. Koenigsberg, DO, FAOCR

Program Director, Diagnostic Radiology

Drexel University College of Medicine

Mail Stop 206

245 N. 15th Street

Philadelphia, PA 19102-1192

Phone: 215.762.8804

Fax: (215) 762-1531

Email: [email protected]



UCLA-David Geffen School of Medicine

Dieter R. Enzmann, MD, Chief & Professor

Department of Radiological Sciences

David Geffen School of Medicine @ UCLA

Box 951721

Los Angeles, CA 90095-1721

Phone: 310-794-6624

Fax: 310-794-6613

Email: [email protected]



Children’s Hospital Boston – Harvard Medical School

Robert T. Bramson, MD

Executive Vice Chairman and

Associate Radiologist-in-Chief

Department of Radiology

300 Longwood Avenue

Boston, MA 02115

Phone: 617-355-3180

Fax: 617-738-1569

Email: [email protected]

 

[Lucinda]

HUGE thanks! Looks like what I might be looking for.

If you are really bent on doing peds radiology, check out the new pathway offered by the ABR for people like you. Peds radiology has a tremendous man(and woman)power shortage. Most jobs are in academic practice, with the current job situation in the general radiology market, this is not going to change anytime soon. (In addition to the financial disincentives to go into peds radiology, you also have to deal with pediatricians. I am not sure what it is about them, but I would rather have my finger and toenails pulled out one at a time than sitting through another childrens hospital radiology demonstation.)
Here is the information on the new peds-radiology pathway. The good thing is that you will still be board certified in general radiology. So, if you are not so thrilled about peds after 5 years, you can still do a fellowship in any of the 'adult' radiology specialties (the '' because in fact most 'adult' specialists see a good number of pedi cases in their subspecialy):

http://www.theabr.org/DRAppAndFeesinFrame.htm

(click on PEDRAP on the left side of the page)

Pediatric Emphasis Diagnostic Radiology Alternative Pathway
(PEDRAP)



This is a provisional pilot with ABR oversight to provide increased emphasis on pediatric radiology training (hopefully encouraging those with pediatric clinical training and an interest in pursuing Pediatric Radiology as a career) .

*

ABR-reviewed and -approved
*

Following are the critical features of the pathway:

1.

Residents entering the pathway will need one year of clinical training prior to beginning the core diagnostic radiology program.

2.

The core diagnostic imaging training will include:

a. Adult-oriented radiology training—2 years

b. Pediatric-oriented radiology training—2 years

c. Total training (including clinical year)—5 years



A prototype training program is outlined below (a detailed program must be submitted by the sponsoring program and approved by the ABR).

3.

This pathway will lead to ABR certification in diagnostic radiology, but will not meet the qualification requirements to take the subspecialty (CAQ) examination in pediatric radiology. An additional year of training in an ACGME-accredited fellowship program will be required for the candidate to be eligible for the subspecialty exam.

4.

This plan maintains the general scheme by which the Holman Pathway is administered, with a similar number of months in the adult radiology training core. The major change is the emphasis on the pediatric radiology training core. Although there will be greater than 12 months of exposure to pediatric radiology, the exposure is distributed over the other nine disciplines of radiology within the pediatric specialty.

5.

The ultimate plan may be instituted in parent programs or in institutions that have integrated or affiliate relationships with children’s hospitals. In the second scenario, permission must granted for rotations longer than six months outside the parent organization, but within the integrated or affiliated institution.

6.

Approximately five programs will be considered for the pilot program project. Programs committing to this plan should have the support of the fellowship director, the residency program director, and the chairs of the parent and affiliated institutions. This support should be documented in a letter to ABR.

The following programs have been approved by the ABR for PEDRAP participation:



Baylor College of Medicine

Pedro J. Diaz-Marchan, MD

Director, Diagnostic Radiology Residency

Baylor College of Medicine

Department of Radiology

One Baylor Plaza – BCM 360

Houston, TX 77030-3498

Phone: 713-798-6362

Fax: 713-798-8359

Email: [email protected]



St. Christopher’s Hospital for Children/Hahnemann University Hospital/Drexel University College of Medicine

Robert A. Koenigsberg, DO, FAOCR

Program Director, Diagnostic Radiology

Drexel University College of Medicine

Mail Stop 206

245 N. 15th Street

Philadelphia, PA 19102-1192

Phone: 215.762.8804

Fax: (215) 762-1531

Email: [email protected]



UCLA-David Geffen School of Medicine

Dieter R. Enzmann, MD, Chief & Professor

Department of Radiological Sciences

David Geffen School of Medicine @ UCLA

Box 951721

Los Angeles, CA 90095-1721

Phone: 310-794-6624

Fax: 310-794-6613

Email: [email protected]



Children’s Hospital Boston – Harvard Medical School

Robert T. Bramson, MD

Executive Vice Chairman and

Associate Radiologist-in-Chief

Department of Radiology

300 Longwood Avenue

Boston, MA 02115

Phone: 617-355-3180

Fax: 617-738-1569

Email: [email protected]

 

[Goober]

Of the programs listed in the pilot program, 3 are very difficult to match into: Harvard, UCLA, and Baylor. From my experience in applying to these programs they favor applicants that are from top 10 med schools, stellar board scores and MD-PhDs. I would certainly not ONLY apply to these 4 programs no matter how good are your credentials. The chances are because how competitive radiology has become, you will go the tradional route.