Penn vs. Columbia

[Woe_is_me23]

I’m super torn. Thanks for the help.

Background:

• Preliminary interests in pediatrics, academic medicine, hospital leadership… but super open minded and eager to explore specialties/ways I can use my MD
• Parents will be able to contribute 40k per year wherever I go— 160k over all four years

$$ costs $$
Columbia: (1/4 scholarship) 300k total COA—> 140k in debt
Penn: 360k COA—>200k in debt
^ how much does this difference matter?


Penn:
++++ my SO lives in Philly— we’d live together; I’d get showered w love errday <3
+++ excellent research, great place to go for academic medicine
+++ many dual degree programs and people doing creative stuff in medicine. Would really expand the ways that I think about being a doctor and help me understand the breadth of opportunities available to me with an MD
++ good vibes from the students. Relatively diverse student body
++ preliminary interest in MBA. Wharton. But who knows
++ great school to be LGBTQ — met enough queer students to be confident in that
++ I sense that I’d have very solid support and mentorship. Maybe not as superb as at Columba though
++ easy transition back to living in Philly. I have a network of friends in the area/at Penn
++ really nice views in their academic buildings

--- expensive, lawdy.
- gunner culture??


Columbia:
+++ I get the sense that there is excellent mentorship and that the administration cares about its students A LOT. My interviewer and the dean have reached out a number of times, and I feel that that’s representative of the school culture
+++ I also get the sense that Columbia has a tight knit community, possibly driven by the fact that students are living in really close proximity for all 4 years
+++ great research
++ vibin w/ potential classmates
++ love the P&S club; would take advantage of it
++ great place to be gay, and I’m into Q clinic
++ damn, the views from the new building/residence halls
+ I want to improve my spanish :3

--- SO in Philly (doable, but I wouldn’t get to live with them.)
-- where am I gonna eat? Seriously, I’m not sure how people in Bard hall eat. And i’m not sure where people buy their groceries and stuff. I feel like I’ll be building up quite the debt via eating out all the time
- Bard Hall is a bummer but it’s only one year. And I’m actually excited by the prospect of being squished next to all my new friends <3


Any advice would be very much appreciated as the final countdown continues to tick toward 11:59 PM EDT. >_<

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[puahate]

UWash. All of these are similar prestige and it is cheaper

 

[Qrtpcr]

Uwash

 

[pooppooppoop]

Reading through your lists, I get the vibe that you want UW for the family/cost, Penn for the SO, and Columbia for the support and connection you gain in the school itself. I would think about how you want to balance those three things and choose from there. I think you will get an excellent education and training regardless, and you need to consider something beyond that.

If you're picking purely for yourself, it sounds like you want Columbia the most, so I would go Columbia.

 

[Woe_is_me23]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I’m still flipping back and forth. Every hour I feel like going to a different school.

@pooppooppoop — yeah... but then I feel like IF I’m going all the way to the east coast (not near fam) AND paying all that money then I should at least be living with my SO! Columbia feels like a #reckless decision lol

 

[FamousLinen]

UW

 

[Woe_is_me23]

UW

Could you elaborate on why?

 

[Woe_is_me23]

Update: just got a ~60k scholarship from Columbia, so it’s more comparable in price to UW.

Would really appreciate more input!

@Goro @gyngyn @HomeSkool @LizzyM @Catalystik

 

[Goro]

Update: just got a ~60k scholarship from Columbia, so it’s more comparable in price to UW.

Would really appreciate more input!

@Goro @gyngyn @HomeSkool @LizzyM @Catalystik

Columbia.

You're a good child to be concerned about your parents. But med students have to be somewhat selfish. You can't run home every time there's a crisis.

 

[jamaisvu]

I vote for Columbia as well

 

[Woe_is_me23]

@Goro do you say that because Columbia is the better school in general or because it seems to be the better school for me? I hear that though— you’re right, re: being somewhat selfish.

 

[Goro]

@Goro do you say that because Columbia is the better school in general or because it seems to be the better school for me? I hear that though— you’re right, re: being somewhat selfish.

Better for you.

 

[deleted966008]

Apologies for the loooong post. I’m super torn. Thanks for the help.

Background:

• Seattle native
• Preliminary interests in pediatrics, academic medicine, hospital leadership… but super open minded and eager to explore specialties/ways I can use my MD
• I have lived in Seattle, Philly, and NYC. I love all of those cities.
• Parents will be able to contribute 40k per year wherever I go— 160k over all four years

$$ costs $$

UW: 270k total COA—>110k in debt
Columbia: (w/ scholarship) 300k total COA—> 140k in debt
Penn: 360k COA—>200k in debt


University of Washington:
++++ really close to my parents (very important to me… they’re kinda old and might die/get dementia before I’m done with residency… sry to be morbid but real talk)
+++ easy matching back to Seattle
+++ best clinical education in the country IMHO. Into the idea of the safari and gaining early clinical confidence//trial by fire//delivering babies on a remote island in Alaska
++ love Seattle
++ easy access to outdoors! I LOVE mountains lawdy
++ decent tuition… only 110k in debt
+ I love my current apartment + roomie
+ can continue to serve the same underserved communities that I currently serve in Seattle

---- across the country from SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :c (they cannot relocate for several more years)
--- UWSOM students are spread out around the city… I think this leads to a more fractured student body. People like each other plenty/are collaborative but they don’t seem #tight #knit… on a similar note: WWAMI safari is isolating and I’d say adios to my med school classmates after the first 18 months
--- huge school and despite its funding I believe there are fewer resources per student and less close mentorship. I’d need to make a lot of opportunities for myself… could be more difficult to establish long term relationships with mentors
--- *prepare yourself for a very abstract con*: I don’t know what type of doctor I want to be in a BIG sense (e.g. I feel I could go down multiple paths: academic medicine, community-driven medicine/advocacy, or hosp. Administration and/or business— I have interests in ALL of these lol…) I wonder if a school that really pushes exploration and thinking broadly about the medical field is best for me. I get the sense that Columbia and Penn are better for exploration outside the clinic
-- research isn’t as popular or as sustained among student body compared to Penn/Columbia. Not championed by the institution for its straight MD students.
-- I am LGBTQ. I have concerns about rotating in the WWAMI region and being closeted for long stretches during my rotations if necessary
- class vibe was less exciting to me than Columbia/Penn
- old facilities, but I can deal with that if necessary (and there are many other places to study in Seattle)


Penn:
++++ my SO lives in Philly— we’d live together; I’d get showered w love errday <3
+++ excellent research, great place to go for academic medicine
+++ many dual degree programs and people doing creative stuff in medicine. Would really expand the ways that I think about being a doctor and help me understand the breadth of opportunities available to me with an MD
++ good vibes from the students. Relatively diverse student body
++ preliminary interest in MBA. Wharton. But who knows
++ great school to be LGBTQ — met enough queer/trans students to be confident in that
++ I sense that I’d have very solid support and mentorship. Maybe not as superb as at Columba but definitely better than UW
++ easy transition back to living in Philly. I have a network of friends in the area/at Penn
++ really nice views in their academic buildings

---- far from parents
--- expensive, lawdy. Makes me feel like a spoiled kid to choose this when I have other options
-- east coast rat race; people salivating over prestige— may bring out the worst in me?
- no huge mountains, no quality skiing
- imposter syndrome
- gunner culture??


Columbia:
+++ I get the sense that there is excellent mentorship and that the administration cares about its students A LOT. This is very important to me.. having this support in undergrad is a huge part of why I’ve been successful so far!
+++ I also get the sense that Columbia has a tight knit community, possibly driven by the fact that students are living in really close proximity for all 4 years
+++ great research
++ vibin w/ potential classmates
++ love the P&S club; would take advantage of it
++ great place to be gay, and I’m into Q clinic
++ damn, the views from the new building/residence halls
+ I want to improve my spanish :3

---- family far away
--- SO in Philly (doable and much better than Seattle-Philly, but I wouldn’t get to live with them.)
-- where am I gonna eat? Seriously, I’m not sure how people in Bard hall eat. And i’m not sure where people buy their groceries and stuff. I feel like I’ll be building up quite the debt via eating out all the time
- no huge mountains, no quality skiing
- imposter syndrome
- Bard Hall is a bummer but it’s only one year. And I’m actually excited by the prospect of being squished next to all my new friends <3



TL;DR: I need help because I’m incredibly conflicted between schools that are extremely different in nature. I want a school that gives me flexibility and encourages exploration. My relationships (with my parents, SO, classmates, and mentors/professors) are also a top priority.

Columbia. They’re all great schools but you seem to like Columbia the most. It’s true you’re not living with your SO in New York, but I bet you’ll be able to see them a heck of a lot more than if you stay in Seattle!

 

[Woe_is_me23]

Thanks for the responses @Goro and @neuro312

Seems like Columbia is the popular choice rn, and I’m definitely feeling the love from them too.

That said, I wonder how much the vibe I got during two visits really matters. I’ll probably end up loving wherever I go, and I won’t know what I’m missing... so then I get confused and I wonder if I should go UW because it’s cheaper + family (who cares if the vibe was less “exciting”) or Penn because SO, and money be damned.

 

[crimson-cat]

Can't go wrong with any of these. Most commenters have ignored your SO situation though. If you're partner is fairly immobile and it's pretty serious then it could definitely be worth the price difference to have that support and not strain the relationship. Conversely, if you value the relationship but want to also be able to devote a lot of time to new friends and professional experiences without creating stress from "not seeing each other a lot even when you're in the same city", then Columbia could be a good compromise (close enough to visit, far enough for absenteeism to be understandable)

 

[Woe_is_me23]

Can't go wrong with any of these. Most commenters have ignored your SO situation though. If you're partner is fairly immobile and it's pretty serious then it could definitely be worth the price difference to have that support and not strain the relationship. Conversely, if you value the relationship but want to also be able to devote a lot of time to new friends and professional experiences without creating stress from "not seeing each other a lot even when you're in the same city", then Columbia could be a good compromise (close enough to visit, far enough for absenteeism to be understandable)

Yeah, I appreciate this perspective. Thank you.

I’m thinking hard about what’s going to help me connect with my classmates while maximizing the health of my relationship.

On the one hand, if I’m at Penn and my SO and I live together, I might feel less pressure to make time for them when I might otherwise be studying/hanging with classmates because I’ll know that I’ll have time with my SO at some point in the day, every day. That might actually help me be more present in med school.

On the other hand, if I’m at Columbia I’ll be living with my classmates, which might reinforce those friendships a lot— and seeing my SO once a week or once every other week might be a happy-ish equilibrium... but I’m afraid I might make them feel ignored when I descend into pits of studying for days at a time.

UW would definitely be a big challenge for us, but my SO would support me either way. It’d probably suck though lol.

If anyone has any perspective on relationships in med school, I’d love to hear your thoughts!!!

 

[peachezzzz]

I would go columbia or penn! As a fellow washington native/UW acceptee, I am going to another school in a different state even though seattle is home for me. My reasons are also significant-other based, and I also haven't gotten great vibes from the school/student body at UW. It seems very much like a commuter school

 

[Woe_is_me23]

It seems very much like a commuter school

Yes! Exactly. And I really want to know my classmates well.

 

[Lucca]

I'm like 75% sure we met at Penn second look lol. So Penn because I thought you were cool.

JK ('cept the cool bit)

Financially, I think UW and Columbia are at least close enough that the benefits you list of going to Columbia could be worth it. But Penn is really expensive compared to them...if I were in your shoes, that would take Penn of my list if I were single. But...I'm also in a long-term relationship and I did LDR for a year and know how strenuous and difficult it can be. If I had to choose between digging myself 60k deeper in debt or doing LDR again I would choose the debt without hesitating as long as I wholeheartedly believed the relationship was going places. Super hard decision. I think you have to make related, but ultimately very different choices: First, in the short term (4 yrs) do you think it more valuable, worthwhile to be close to your family or to your SO? If the answer is family, the choice is UW. If the answer is SO, then you have to answer the second question which is whether or not the debt is worth co-living instead of having to conjure up Byzantine schedules every month to travel to each other as much as you are able to.

I don't think there are right answers but from my perspective I think thats what the choices boil down to. Career-wise, I think you'll have excellent options at all these places.

 

[Woe_is_me23]

I don't think there are right answers but from my perspective I think thats what the choices boil down to. Career-wise, I think you'll have excellent options at all these places.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Lucca!!!

Yep. You’re right. That’s definitely what my choices boil down to... I really wish I could choose a school based on the merits of the institution but that’s just not how this is going to work. Sort of tough because the decision about which med school I’m going to attend has really morphed into a decision about what kind of life I want to have, who I want to prioritize, and maybe even what type of doctor I’m likely to become (maybe a bit melodramatic, but that’s how it feels). In any case, that makes me feel a lot more pressure to make ~the right~ decision.

also I‘m pretty sure I remember meeting you too!!!! ^-^

 

[Woe_is_me23]

Hello humans. Just withdrew from UW— an extremely tough choice, but I think being on the east coast is the right choice for my relationship. Any last words of wisdom before I make my final decision between Columbia and Penn?

 

[tulsajoe94]

@Woe_is_me23 does your cost of attendance for Penn include the fact you'd be living with your SO? If housing is a big expense there, that could be relevant. I *personally* think that Penn looks like a really good choice here. That MD/MBA option seems good if you're interested in hospital administration, you have friends there, and your SO is there. I was just reading a forum about people regretting or not regretting med school, and it seems like spending time with family and friends OUTSIDE of medicine was important to a lot of people. You can't lose either way, but that is something I'd consider.

Imagine coming home from a long day at the hospital and BAM, your SO stocked the fridge. That's priceless.

 

[BOAO523]

If you've chosen the east to be with your boo, might as well go all the way. If you truly think you're going to settle/marry this person just go be with them in philly! Either way you can't go wrong school-wise!

 

[sunflower1921]

SO could be a nice source of support being far from home. I think you'll be able to make connections and friendships with your class in either place, so I'm not sure I would let that sway you too much. Life goes on even while in medical school, so if you think the relationship is going places, why not Penn?

On the other hand if you're reading this and disagreeing then your heart is on Columbia. From your post it sounds like the relationship wouldn't be jeopardized by the distance. Which are you having a harder time letting go of? Pick that one.

 

[Woe_is_me23]

Guys, thank you all for the last minute input. Really appreciate it. I went for Columbia!
Chose P&S partly because they upped my finaid at the last minute, and partly because I’m feeling confident that that’s the better academic community for me. It’ll be tough to not live with my SO, but I’m also pumped to be close by AND saving a lil bit of $$$!