Penn vs. Tufts (vs. Minnesota?)

[IvyMoose]

Hey everyone! I recently got accepted to both Penn Vet and Tufts (yay!), and waitlisted at Minnesota, but now I have a decision to make. I also decided to make this thread because other threads I read about Penn vs. Tufts did not emphasize too much on wildlife medicine / other opportunities. I am OOS for these schools, and the price I think is pretty comparable (anything near half a million and I just accept that I will be in debt forever). I originally applied to veterinary school because I wanted to do wildlife and conservation medicine, and while that is still my top choice, I want to be open to other options in case I find something more interesting. In undergrad, I switched my majors a dozen times, going from biology to chemistry to physics (to even considering classics at one point), so needless to say I have varied interests.

I feel like, strictly, Tufts is the better option because I have not heard much about Penn Vet having much wildlife attention. However, I am IN LOVE with Penn Vet's new curriculum, especially how meshed and connected everything is (basically, your classes aren't stand-alone, and you just have lectures throughout the week, learning everything about a body system (e.g. anatomy, physiology, clinical pathology, etc.) throughout the week. I also like the professional development courses and the 2:2 curriculum). Also, I love city life, and I like being able to take a train to NYC (I know I won't have MUCH time to go, but nice for vacation and the like). Also, I wanted to be close to Rowan University because I really want to do research there outside of vet med (again, a summer / vacation kind of thing... is it even feasible to think this?). Tufts, from what I understand, is 3:1 curriculum and separates the anatomy, clinical pathology, and other courses. I do LOVE the fact that there is a wildlife clinic and the wildlife medicine signature opportunity. Selectives also seem like a good addition. I also get a strange vibe from the students (NO offense to Tufts students, but the info sessions just seem discombobulated and not as engaging as the Penn student info session before the interview). I had great interviews for both too. From what I know, neither is offering visiting days, so I can't experience the schools that way. I know ultimately that I will be a vet at the end of four years, but what I definitely want is: 1) wildlife / conservation exposure (whether it be at my home institution or as externships / summer opportunities), 2) options to explore other areas, 3) a good community among students. I think I can get good wildlife exposure at Penn, but only if I bust butt and do my own thing over summers and externships during clinical year(s). At Tufts, I get it right in my backyard, but the curriculum is not the best way for me to learn and I don't get a sense of a strong community. And in case it is important, I applied to the MS in Conservation Medicine at Tufts, and if I get in, I will likely defer vet med for a year and start class of 2027.

Also, the title mentions UMN, but I'm waitlisted and wondering if I should hold out on the waitlist (#30-40) and go there. I know I can always put a deposit down (and lose it if I accept UMN). I love UMN wildlife too, and the connections to Como zoo are amazing. The interactions I have had with students have been the best yet (second to Penn), but again I have to wait until after April 15th to learn if I am off the waitlist.

Thank you so much (sorry for the long post), and I hope to get some insight from pre-vet and current vet students as well as current veterinarians to get a sense of how much my decision matters in the long run (and in case my WW friends read this thread, this is why I haven't signed up for games recently... so much stress on top of school and work!).

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[WildZoo]

My first advice is always always always to really crunch numbers. Not just tuition but cost of living and all that too. Look into whether either school has more scholarship opportunities, etc. Sometimes there are hidden ways for price to be different, and with how things currently work, any difference is just going to multiply over time with interest. Even with income based repayment and forgiveness after the 20 or 25 years, the amount that you have to pay in taxes is dependent on how much is being forgiven. So keep that in mind!

Otherwise I don't know too much about either school besides my general impression that yes, Tufts is going to have more wildlife opportunities. So I'll tag some people for ya, they can tag others, I don't keep everyone's school in my head lol

Penn: @mkg323 @Dana_May_B
Tufts: @max_wildlife @WonderingStudent @PippyPony
And @supershorty for UMN

In my opinion staying on the UMN waitlist is a good idea if that is where you would want to go most. I don't know how much their waitlist generally moves but other than the loss of deposit at the other school, there's no reason not to stay on the list.

 

[supershorty]

@Dinashadow and @kaydubs for Tufts, too!

 

[supershorty]

Ope I just remembered that I didn’t actually answer the question, but I will tomorrow!

 

[Dinashadow]

Tufts student here about to go into clinics! I don't know a ton about our wildlife program, but I'll try to help as best as I can. If you still have wildlife questions, feel free to PM me and I can get you in touch with someone that is wildlife oriented. 🙂

I feel like, strictly, Tufts is the better option because I have not heard much about Penn Vet having much wildlife attention.

Once again, I'm not a wildlife person, but that's my impression. From what I've heard the wildlife clinic on campus has a large case load. We have a one week (used to be 2 weeks) required rotation in the wildlife clinic and some students will do elective weeks there. We also have a large wildlife/aquatics/zoo med/exotics club. Some students volunteer/work in the wildlife clinic, but I think those positions are fairly competitive. However, at the end of the day, you can manage to go into wildlife/exotics no matter where you go to school as long as you seek out the opportunities.

However, I am IN LOVE with Penn Vet's new curriculum, especially how meshed and connected everything is (basically, your classes aren't stand-alone, and you just have lectures throughout the week, learning everything about a body system (e.g. anatomy, physiology, clinical pathology, etc.) throughout the week. I also like the professional development courses and the 2:2 curriculum).

At Tufts we basically spend 1st year learning what's normal, 2nd year learning abnormal, and 3rd year learning how to treat abnormal, but I know Tufts is restructuring the curriculum in the coming years. I'm not sure what those changes will entail.

I have no complaints about the curriculum now. I feel like each year built on the year before and important topics got repeated frequently. What I like most about Tufts is the exam schedule. We have exams on Fridays and only one exam per week (unless it's finals).

Also, I love city life, and I like being able to take a train to NYC (I know I won't have MUCH time to go, but nice for vacation and the like). Also, I wanted to be close to Rowan University because I really want to do research there outside of vet med (again, a summer / vacation kind of thing... is it even feasible to think this?). Tufts, from what I understand, is 3:1 curriculum and separates the anatomy, clinical pathology, and other courses. I do LOVE the fact that there is a wildlife clinic and the wildlife medicine signature opportunity. Selectives also seem like a good addition.

North Grafton is definitely more rural than Philly. You can easily train into Boston though and Worcester is about 30 minutes away. I think another thing you'll want to look into is COL for the area. While it's expensive to live in MA, I'm not sure how it compares to living in Philadelphia. And yeah Tufts is small and basically in the middle of no where, but the parking is only like $10-15 per year

I also get a strange vibe from the students (NO offense to Tufts students, but the info sessions just seem discombobulated and not as engaging as the Penn student info session before the interview). I had great interviews for both too. From what I know, neither is offering visiting days, so I can't experience the schools that way.

I'm not sure what you mean by strange vibes lol, but I find everyone on campus is welcoming and friendly. The majority of the professors/admin are approachable, easy to talk to and usually very receptive to feedback.

I know ultimately that I will be a vet at the end of four years, but what I definitely want is: 1) wildlife / conservation exposure (whether it be at my home institution or as externships / summer opportunities), 2) options to explore other areas, 3) a good community among students. I think I can get good wildlife exposure at Penn, but only if I bust butt and do my own thing over summers and externships during clinical year(s). At Tufts, I get it right in my backyard, but the curriculum is not the best way for me to learn and I don't get a sense of a strong community. And in case it is important, I applied to the MS in Conservation Medicine at Tufts, and if I get in, I will likely defer vet med for a year and start class of 2027.

I agree with dubz that the most important factor is how expensive going to each school is going to be w/COL, because I think you'll be able to find all 3 of your requirements at any school.

Hope that was helpful! Happy to answer any other questions.

 

[max_wildlife]

@IvyMoose
Hey! I'm a first year at Tufts and I'm fairly involved in wildlife stuff. I volunteer in the wildlife clinic once per week at the expense of one morning of lectures per week - they're recorded. It's not too common a move; I'm not a science student by nature and I was getting restless and frustrated, so i took a risk; there wasn't another way for me to volunteer. I'm also in a loon biology & ecology selective with a few other people -- including a couple Masters of Conservation Medicine folks actually! -- and we're working with a pretty great professor. it's lined me up to do some fieldwork this summer in new hampshire as long as some developing family situations remain stable. I'm certainly in the income-based repayment/debt forever boat, I'm non-traditional, and I chose this school for complicated reasons. I often half-joke it's proximity to the ocean, and I do like the wildlife opportunities, but family health & cultural concerns played the biggest role in my choice. long story. but i was very close to picking a different school - so hopefully i can give you a transparent/critical idea of Tufts.

I was in a different field for years so I kind of figured I wouldn't enjoy the didactic portion of any vet school. I do enjoy our comparative anatomy course - exotics, basically - and am glad that we get that so early. I do understand what you mean about the vibes; I think it may vary from class to class. Most of our lectures are optional in-person attendance, which works for me -- but because of that I do feel like the class can be a little disconnected. I've made a handful of friends but I think a large chunk of our class - we still don't know each other. housing can be hard to find which I think impacts the community aspect; i live 40 mins away - needed a fenced in yard for my pup - but most people can find something closer. We do have clinical skills really early on which I like; we're already doing suturing, ultrasounds etc. and we've been touching cows, pigs, horses, and dogs since the first week of school.

Faculty are pretty personable. I played soccer with the assistant dean over the fall lol and professors are always willing to meet and discuss things. and for what it's worth, I went through a family health emergency over winter break that required me to miss some time from school; the administration has been accommodating, and even waived a couple things, but I've also been assertive about it. I've heard mixed reviews from students in comparable situations. life happens when we least expect it sometimes, and it's important to consider those sort of things too.

Stuff I dislike: there's no place to eat on campus after 3 p.m; no on-campus student health center -- though I think we have a nurse? being isolated from cities is hard for me. and yeah -- communication is tough. I always feel like I'm missing something; schedules can change very quickly without notice. cost of living is hit or miss, but my heat has gone out 3 times because even though i came from a very wintry city, oil heat was a big surprise to me. so i've already paid my cost of rent in oil. not fun.

Neutralish feelings: in addition to feeling 'meh' about the way small animal anatomy is taught, we also are required to take biochem, which.. not a fan. I'm a really kinesthetic learner and that's not great for didactics in general. But, again all the lectures are recorded for the most part so if you want to go to vet school from your couch? doable. not sure how that will be w/ the curriculum restructure or when that starts.

Sorry for the exhausted rambling -- I'm trying to hit all the bases but I think I need some sleep. Let me know if you have any specific questions especially re: wildlife stuff and I'll try my best to fill you in!

 

[Dana_May_B]

hey ivy!!!!!! first off, congrats on the acceptances!!!!!!!

i’m a first year at penn and my class is the last one going through the old curriculum. i really honestly don’t know that much about the new curriculum other than the fact that the faculty have been working on it for years and years and it is truly a needed change. there’s nothing terribly wrong with the current curriculum and i’m confident i’ll still graduate just as prepared as all the classes that have come before me, but i do feel like the classes and coursework is outdated, very hands off, and needs revamping. so your class will be the start of the new curriculum, which i’m sure will have it’s own set of problems and positives. being the guinea pig class won’t be easy, but the professors so far have been very understanding and they’re going to be going through this for the first time themselves as well.
as for wildlife, we do currently have two wildlife electives for first years to take (wildlife 1 and wildlife 2) but i don’t know how that will work with the new curriculum. we also are just starting a “wildlife futures” program, which from what i’ve heard, should create some more wildlife opportunities for students. we have several partner wildlife clinics that students can shadow at on the weekends as part of the wildlife elective courses, and my friends have all gotten really great hands on experience from that. since i do not know how these wildlife opportunities will be incorporated into the new curriculum, i would say your assessment that wildlife experiences will be harder to come by at penn versus tufts and that you’ll need to work harder yourself to find those opportunities at penn is a fair statement for right now. but if i were you, i would send an email to the penn admissions people and ask if you could find out how the first year wildlife electives are going to be changed in the new curriculum, and what wildlife opportunities will be built into the coursework of the new curriculum. there’s no harm in asking! if you end up going to penn, i also can send you the info for the vet hospital i’ve worked at for the past two years. it’s about 30-40 minutes away from penn, but they do about 50% exotics and wildlife, and 50% small animal. i’ve gotten to work with hawks, owls, eagles, bats, skunks, raccoons, vultures, squirrels and more there. they’re always hiring vet students for the summers, and they actually just became a penn vet affiliate hospital so there’s an official penn vet clinical rotation that uses their hospital. and i’m sure anyone else in my class or the classes above me who have good wildlife connections would love to share those too. everyone has been super kind with sharing experiences and opportunities! so yeah, penn doesn’t have a true wildlife clinic right on campus like tufts, but there are still opportunities! we also have several exotics/wildlife clubs that bring in speakers for lunch talks and do wet labs to get more hands on experience too.
if you’re also interested in research of any kind, i think that is one of penn’s biggest strengths. we have so so so many research opportunities, even outside of the vet school. professors are constantly plugging their research in class, and they would love nothing more than to have students come chat with them about what they’re doing, and they love taking students for the summer.
i absolutely agree with everyone else that really taking time to make a spreadsheet and break down cost of school along with the cost of living is super important. i live in a small one bedroom about 15 feet away from the vet school, and i pay $1500 a month for that luxury. i also was lucky enough to get a full tuition scholarship to penn and that’s the #1 reason why i’m here compared to the other schools i got into which would have been cheaper

let me know if you have any more questions about life at penn and living in the city! penn and tufts have extremely different locations, so if the numbers come out pretty even, i would think about living in the city (which i have definitely had time to explore and venture out into on the weekends!) vs the rural tufts campus. i feel bad but i probably can’t answer many curriculum based questions just because what i’m doing and learning now is going to be so incredibly different than your classes. i really like penn and most of the professors are great, but i will say my big takeaway from first year is far is that you’ll truly honestly get a comparable education no matter where you go.

 

[supershorty]

Okay see, I said I'd be back and here I am. I'm in my 6th year of UMN's dual program, so I've been here for a long time 😅
I'm not a wildlife person though, so I'll do the best I can to help with that, but there are probably more opportunities than I'm aware of since I'm not seeking them out.

Hey everyone! I recently got accepted to both Penn Vet and Tufts (yay!), and waitlisted at Minnesota, but now I have a decision to make. I also decided to make this thread because other threads I read about Penn vs. Tufts did not emphasize too much on wildlife medicine / other opportunities. I am OOS for these schools, and the price I think is pretty comparable (anything near half a million and I just accept that I will be in debt forever). I originally applied to veterinary school because I wanted to do wildlife and conservation medicine, and while that is still my top choice, I want to be open to other options in case I find something more interesting. In undergrad, I switched my majors a dozen times, going from biology to chemistry to physics (to even considering classics at one point), so needless to say I have varied interests.

I feel like, strictly, Tufts is the better option because I have not heard much about Penn Vet having much wildlife attention. However, I am IN LOVE with Penn Vet's new curriculum, especially how meshed and connected everything is (basically, your classes aren't stand-alone, and you just have lectures throughout the week, learning everything about a body system (e.g. anatomy, physiology, clinical pathology, etc.) throughout the week. I also like the professional development courses and the 2:2 curriculum). Also, I love city life, and I like being able to take a train to NYC (I know I won't have MUCH time to go, but nice for vacation and the like). Also, I wanted to be close to Rowan University because I really want to do research there outside of vet med (again, a summer / vacation kind of thing... is it even feasible to think this?).

I don't know about this university specifically, but research outside of vet-med-specific stuff is going to be something that you'll have opportunities for at most programs, although I guess I don't know what you mean by outside of vet med. I think UMN has an advantage here because we have a med school on the same campus, so there are huge amounts of opportunities for collaboration or getting involved in research that's translational but not necessarily vet-med-specific. UMN also has an enormous amount of research funding.

UMN has a 3:1 curriculum that's pretty similar to what Dina described for Tufts; first year was learning how things normally are, second year was learning about all the things that can go wrong, and then third year was learning how to treat them when they go wrong. The curriculum here is pretty traditional didactic, although they're trying to move in a more case-based-learning direction and some courses are exclusively CBL at this point (LOVE those! I learned more in them than I ever expected I would). Our classes try to be meshed in the sense of covering the same system from class to class, but each class is standalone. I really liked that while I was in the DVM; it made studying easier to understand how something I learned in physiology applied to small animal medicine, etc. Having said all of that, they've changed the curriculum to some extent since I stepped out to do my PhD, so @vetsquared probably has more up-to-date info if you have specific curriculum questions.

We do have the benefit of city life and the Twin Cities are a really fun area to live. The cost of living is probably pretty average? I know some people think it's expensive out here, I didn't really agree with that assessment, but I was coming from the NYC area and anything seems less expensive than that lol.

Tufts, from what I understand, is 3:1 curriculum and separates the anatomy, clinical pathology, and other courses. I do LOVE the fact that there is a wildlife clinic and the wildlife medicine signature opportunity. Selectives also seem like a good addition. I also get a strange vibe from the students (NO offense to Tufts students, but the info sessions just seem discombobulated and not as engaging as the Penn student info session before the interview). I had great interviews for both too. From what I know, neither is offering visiting days, so I can't experience the schools that way. I know ultimately that I will be a vet at the end of four years, but what I definitely want is: 1) wildlife / conservation exposure (whether it be at my home institution or as externships / summer opportunities), 2) options to explore other areas, 3) a good community among students. I think I can get good wildlife exposure at Penn, but only if I bust butt and do my own thing over summers and externships during clinical year(s). At Tufts, I get it right in my backyard, but the curriculum is not the best way for me to learn and I don't get a sense of a strong community. And in case it is important, I applied to the MS in Conservation Medicine at Tufts, and if I get in, I will likely defer vet med for a year and start class of 2027.

Also, the title mentions UMN, but I'm waitlisted and wondering if I should hold out on the waitlist (#30-40) and go there. I know I can always put a deposit down (and lose it if I accept UMN). I love UMN wildlife too, and the connections to Como zoo are amazing. The interactions I have had with students have been the best yet (second to Penn), but again I have to wait until after April 15th to learn if I am off the waitlist.

If the costs are really coming out to being around the same (like Dubz mentioned, include the cost of living and all of that before deciding that) and you really liked UMN, then there's not much harm in staying on the list and putting down a deposit somewhere else. The waitlist movement here varies a lot from year to year, but the OOS list moves a decent amount every year and with where your position is, I wouldn't say that there's no chance of you getting pulled off it.

As for wildlife opportunities, I think Tufts has the advantage here because they have the wildlife clinic on campus, whereas UMN doesn't even see exotics at the VMC. We do have the raptor center on campus and easy access to the MN wildlife rehabilitation center (it's about 10 min from campus and they welcome DVM student volunteers and externs), and there are zoo and wildlife courses available. I took one of the zoo courses during first year and that was my only zoo experience, but those courses are very popular and people really enjoy them. We do have the connections to the Como Zoo and to the MN Zoo, so there are opportunities there. Our zoo, exotics, avian, and wildlife club is super active too, and they do some really neat wetlabs each year, so that's another chance to get some wildlife in your day. In terms of easiest access to wildlife exposure, my guess is that it would go Tufts > UMN > Penn.

 

[max_wildlife]

@IvyMoose
had some more thoughts while sitting through comparative today while drinking half a pot of coffee ☕

• if wildlife is your deciding factor, i highly recommend reaching out to the tufts wildlife faculty for further advisement/planning. do this early. if you dm me i can send you a little more info on specifics. you mention busting your butt to get wildlife experience at penn - you'll need to do a little butt-busting at tufts too -- half of my class is interested in wildlife, which is great and you can make a lot of friends. but there's sometimes this palpable tension. i don't want to say it's exactly competitive because there are opportunities for people if you look for them, but it's something you can feel. i did have to really dig to get involved at the wildlife clinic; student volunteers are currently strictly limited due to covid
• some acquaintances in classes above me noted that they chose tufts for wildlife and did not step foot in the wildlife clinic until clinical rotations starting mid third year. again. the opportunities are there if you dig, but i would start 'annoying' the faculty now, before you even get there. i definitely reached out to my current selective leader months before moving to massachusetts.
• our selectives are based on a lottery system. while there are wildlife and exotic selectives, i didn't have a high enough lottery number to get into either; hence the volunteering, which i'm actually okay with because i can do that longer term. my loon-selective is historically available but you need to request it of the professor, who is a lovely human being and a good mentor. this kind of selective is not exactly available for multiple species
• that said, our wildlife faculty are involved in a lot of research, so if you're serious about wildlife, try to identify species you're interested in and contact the professors directly, much like you would in grad school. be open to some different species too. my mentor in my hometown really likes loons which is how i developed an interest in them. the wildlife faculty is well-connected and can probably connect you with other people.
• additionally, not all wildlife-oriented researchers at tufts are necessarily listed as wildlife hospital faculty/clinicians or in conservation medicine; some work in the infectious disease department and do some really cool work
• when covid restrictions lessen, you'll probably be able to do self-styled selectives at local zoos & wildlife centers again

Non-Wildlife Thoughts

• didactic lectures are usually ~2 hrs long with one 10 minute break in between - this is hard for me even in subjects i like
• required lectures for first year are in a lecture hall with not enough seats for all the first years
• we have some p/f courses and the rest are graded. the p/f courses are historically 'easier' and the graded courses are not.
• attrition rate - not sure what's normal but feel free to dm me for more info on this

 

[vetsquared]

Hi! I am a current first year at UMN! I was accepted to both Penn and Tufts last year but ultimately chose UMN for a couple reasons. Now, I’m a small animal person, so I don’t know a ton about wildlife, but I will try to shed some light on the program!

1. Wildlife exposure: On campus we have the raptor center that has volunteer positions available for students. We are also really close to the wildlife rehab center that several of my classmates volunteer with. In first year alone there are two non-domestic animal/wildlife/zoo electives available- I didn’t take either of them, but the people in them seem to like them! There is also a funded summer research program called Summer Scholars that the CVM really advocates for. Students spend the summer working on a project in the vet school or med school, get paid, and I count several projects that have to do with wildlife/ecosystem health.

2. Options to explore other fields: I think every vet school will give you solid exposure to different career fields, honestly. If you’re wondering about tracking or non-tracking, UMN starts tracking in third year. I like that we get a lot of hands-on animal experience with all the species in first year through our classes, but we also have tons of opportunities outside of class too. While we don’t do block scheduling, we generally cover the same systems in all our classes at the same time, which I really like. There is also a good amount of case-based learning and group discussion… I think almost every class has some kind of small group activity, if you like that kind of thing. Also, the vast majority of our classes (including the big ones like anatomy, physiology, immunology) are P/F! Very few are actually graded, like 2-3 per semester.

3. Good community among students: I think UMN takes the cake! This was one of the things that really drew me to the school. Everyone here is amazing and my class is super supportive of each other. I will also expand this to a good community amongst the faculty and staff too. Our faculty are so amazingly kind, supportive, encouraging, understanding, and adaptable. They will move quizzes if the class is feeling overwhelmed one week, give people extensions if they aren’t feeling well, and generally do whatever they can to make vet school better for us. I literally can’t say enough good things.

I also second everything that shorty said above!

 

[futurevet_2025]

Just thought I would chime in as I was in your exact same boat trying to decide between Tufts and Penn. I think everyone gave solid advice on each point. However, I will say that trying to decide on a school primarily based on curriculum and certain opportunities is tough because overall, what you learn is going to basically be the same in an accredited program. There will totally be differences in how that’s taught per school, but I don’t think drastic enough (minus the schools that are PBL based) where it will be a major difference. Additionally, once you’re in vet school, you’ll find opportunities exist just because you’re a vet student and you’ve taken initiative to reach out. So I guarantee you will find wildlife opportunities at either school/surrounding area as long you take initiative to reach out and make connections. So my advice and this is what helped me decide ultimately is: outside of school, what is your biggest priority? For me, that is family. So I ended up choosing the school that is closest to my family and I will never have regrets about that because I can easily visit them on a weekend if I wanted. But for you, it could be something else. I only say this because I think it’s easy to question your decision later on if you’re making one primarily focused on the curriculum and opportunities at the school. That’s still important, but if you decide on a school ultimately for a larger priority then I think it’s easier to rest assured that it’s the right decision for you. Best of luck deciding and congrats on the achievement 🙂

 

[IvyMoose]

THANK YOU EVERYONE! I really appreciate all of your input: below are just some thoughts I had in case anyone wanted to follow up / another pre-vet wanted to read my thought process when looking through your LOVELY responses <3 Truly thank you ALL

I'm not sure what you mean by strange vibes lol, but I find everyone on campus is welcoming and friendly. The majority of the professors/admin are approachable, easy to talk to and usually very receptive to feedback.

I only meant that strictly from the info sessions, there was a lack of enthusiasm, but this could totally not be the case: I'm only seeing what a few people are presenting!

i absolutely agree with everyone else that really taking time to make a spreadsheet and break down cost of school along with the cost of living is super important. i live in a small one bedroom about 15 feet away from the vet school, and i pay $1500 a month for that luxury. i also was lucky enough to get a full tuition scholarship to penn and that’s the #1 reason why i’m here compared to the other schools i got into which would have been cheaper

let me know if you have any more questions about life at penn and living in the city! penn and tufts have extremely different locations, so if the numbers come out pretty even, i would think about living in the city (which i have definitely had time to explore and venture out into on the weekends!) vs the rural tufts campus. i feel bad but i probably can’t answer many curriculum based questions just because what i’m doing and learning now is going to be so incredibly different than your classes. i really like penn and most of the professors are great, but i will say my big takeaway from first year is far is that you’ll truly honestly get a comparable education no matter where you go.

3 questions: 1) $1500/mo just for you? Do you have roommates? 2) When did you hear back about scholarships? A lot of people got recruitment scholarships within a week of acceptance, so I'm wondering if I should give up on that venture, and 3) How much time do you actually have to go around the city? I know vet schools is time-consuming, but (and others can answer this too) how much time do you have to yourself? I am assuming it's what you make of it, right?

• some acquaintances in classes above me noted that they chose tufts for wildlife and did not step foot in the wildlife clinic until clinical rotations starting mid third year. again. the opportunities are there if you dig, but i would start 'annoying' the faculty now, before you even get there. i definitely reached out to my current selective leader months before moving to massachusetts.
• our selectives are based on a lottery system. while there are wildlife and exotic selectives, i didn't have a high enough lottery number to get into either; hence the volunteering, which i'm actually okay with because i can do that longer term. my loon-selective is historically available but you need to request it of the professor, who is a lovely human being and a good mentor. this kind of selective is not exactly available for multiple species

Non-Wildlife Thoughts

• didactic lectures are usually ~2 hrs long with one 10 minute break in between - this is hard for me even in subjects i like
• required lectures for first year are in a lecture hall with not enough seats for all the first years

1) it scares me that wildlife people didn't start getting in the wildlife clinic until mid 3rd year 🙁 but I guess, like you said, you gotta be annoying.
2) The lottery system?!?!?! I had one in undergrad for seminars and I always struggled to get the classes I wanted omg it is truly that hard to get those selectives then?
3) The two non-wildlife thoughts are interesting: my 1.25 hour lectures in undergrad killed me, but I guess vet schools everywhere have similar lecture times. And the seating... that's wild

Hi! I am a current first year at UMN! I was accepted to both Penn and Tufts last year but ultimately chose UMN for a couple reasons. Now, I’m a small animal person, so I don’t know a ton about wildlife, but I will try to shed some light on the program!

1. Wildlife exposure: On campus we have the raptor center that has volunteer positions available for students. We are also really close to the wildlife rehab center that several of my classmates volunteer with. In first year alone there are two non-domestic animal/wildlife/zoo electives available- I didn’t take either of them, but the people in them seem to like them! There is also a funded summer research program called Summer Scholars that the CVM really advocates for. Students spend the summer working on a project in the vet school or med school, get paid, and I count several projects that have to do with wildlife/ecosystem health.

2. Options to explore other fields: I think every vet school will give you solid exposure to different career fields, honestly. If you’re wondering about tracking or non-tracking, UMN starts tracking in third year. I like that we get a lot of hands-on animal experience with all the species in first year through our classes, but we also have tons of opportunities outside of class too. While we don’t do block scheduling, we generally cover the same systems in all our classes at the same time, which I really like. There is also a good amount of case-based learning and group discussion… I think almost every class has some kind of small group activity, if you like that kind of thing. Also, the vast majority of our classes (including the big ones like anatomy, physiology, immunology) are P/F! Very few are actually graded, like 2-3 per semester.

3. Good community among students: I think UMN takes the cake! This was one of the things that really drew me to the school. Everyone here is amazing and my class is super supportive of each other. I will also expand this to a good community amongst the faculty and staff too. Our faculty are so amazingly kind, supportive, encouraging, understanding, and adaptable. They will move quizzes if the class is feeling overwhelmed one week, give people extensions if they aren’t feeling well, and generally do whatever they can to make vet school better for us. I literally can’t say enough good things.

I also second everything that shorty said above!

So from what you're saying, is it relatively easy to work in the raptor center and the wildlife rehab center? And I really like what you said about UMN and studying the same systems in all classes at the same time. I also LOVE the community at UMN... it's what is drawing me to the school too! It really shows in their info sessions.

Just thought I would chime in as I was in your exact same boat trying to decide between Tufts and Penn. I think everyone gave solid advice on each point. However, I will say that trying to decide on a school primarily based on curriculum and certain opportunities is tough because overall, what you learn is going to basically be the same in an accredited program. There will totally be differences in how that’s taught per school, but I don’t think drastic enough (minus the schools that are PBL based) where it will be a major difference. Additionally, once you’re in vet school, you’ll find opportunities exist just because you’re a vet student and you’ve taken initiative to reach out. So I guarantee you will find wildlife opportunities at either school/surrounding area as long you take initiative to reach out and make connections. So my advice and this is what helped me decide ultimately is: outside of school, what is your biggest priority? For me, that is family. So I ended up choosing the school that is closest to my family and I will never have regrets about that because I can easily visit them on a weekend if I wanted. But for you, it could be something else. I only say this because I think it’s easy to question your decision later on if you’re making one primarily focused on the curriculum and opportunities at the school. That’s still important, but if you decide on a school ultimately for a larger priority then I think it’s easier to rest assured that it’s the right decision for you. Best of luck deciding and congrats on the achievement 🙂

What I bolded is what I'm starting to realize, because ultimately I need to have something OUTSIDE of vet school to keep me sane lol. And although maybe it can be more difficult elsewhere to get experience, I'm assuming it'll just take more work to find those opportunities. And from what @max_wildlife said, you gotta bust butt everywhere.

 

[Dinashadow]

THANK YOU EVERYONE! I really appreciate all of your input: below are just some thoughts I had in case anyone wanted to follow up / another pre-vet wanted to read my thought process when looking through your LOVELY responses <3 Truly thank you ALL

I only meant that strictly from the info sessions, there was a lack of enthusiasm, but this could totally not be the case: I'm only seeing what a few people are presenting!

No worries! I know interview sessions can vary widely from day to day depending on the student volunteers. I know COVID has thrown a wrench in everything and I'm sure that contributes.

1) it scares me that wildlife people didn't start getting in the wildlife clinic until mid 3rd year 🙁 but I guess, like you said, you gotta be annoying.
2) The lottery system?!?!?! I had one in undergrad for seminars and I always struggled to get the classes I wanted omg it is truly that hard to get those selectives then?

The lottery system rotates so if you get a bad roll first year you're guaranteed a first pick either second year or first semester of 3rd year and vice versa. They try to make it as fair as possible. Wildlife stuff is definitely competitive like max_wildlife said. Usually there's a lot of interested students but not necessarily the positions for them. I hope now that COVID regulations are being lifted that it'll be easier for future classes.

3) The two non-wildlife thoughts are interesting: my 1.25 hour lectures in undergrad killed me, but I guess vet schools everywhere have similar lecture times. And the seating... that's wild

The lectures are 50 minutes with 10 minute breaks. In my first year they tried to put all the lectures in the AM with labs and interactive stuff in the afternoon. I remember having a lot of afternoons off first year and every Tuesday afternoon you're off to either pursue selectives or just study. When you get to second and third year there's a lot more lectures and 8 hour days of class. I also can't sit through hours of lecture, so I never went to class and watched lectures (at 2x speed) in a way that suited me, but I know that's not for everyone.

Also, there usually isn't class or less intense courses on Fridays after exam, which is really nice.

The seating situation is a huge bummer. They threw the first years this year in the worst lecture hall on campus for some reason and I'm assuming max's class is larger because we never had seating issues (even in that lecture hall).

 

[max_wildlife]

The lottery system rotates so if you get a bad roll first year you're guaranteed a first pick either second year or first semester of 3rd year and vice versa. They try to make it as fair as possible. Wildlife stuff is definitely competitive like max_wildlife said. Usually there's a lot of interested students but not necessarily the positions for them. I hope now that COVID regulations are being lifted that it'll be easier for future classes.

@IvyMoose
2) The lottery system?!?!?! I had one in undergrad for seminars and I always struggled to get the classes I wanted omg it is truly that hard to get those selectives then?

Yeah. For what it's worth, I was allowed to pick in the first group this time, but I was #14, so it precluded me from pretty much all of the established wildlife & exotics stuff. i was told this was my good pick; 14 isn't a bad number if you're interested in a variety of things.

also not all selectives are as competitive, and not all wildlife medicine is clinical. pathology or working for the state/feds and in academia are where a lot of the jobs are; there are kind of options to help build skills in these areas, like selectives in digital pathology, epidemiology, or honey bee medicine; i imagine the surgery or radiology selectives would be helpful from a practical standpoint, especially if you can show the wildlife experience elsewhere. though i'm guessing these are also competitive.

although. honey bee medicine takes up to 10 people and i likely would've been able to get that one with my number, but i had to do the loon one if i couldn't get the wildlife clinic -- it's important for what i'm doing this summer and in some ways, more specific to my professional interests. i'll be helping with an org in new hampshire with loon rehab, rescue and research. so even in my self-styled selective i'm doing a lot of necropsies and learning avian anatomy and how to read radiographs, learning about lead poisoning etc. plus as a volunteer in the wildlife clinic i'm still allowed to help out with quite a bit, so i'm not convinced i'm missing much by not doing the selective. i'm the only student on my morning, so when i'm caught up on husbandry things, i'm able to shadow, ask questions etc.

The seating situation is a huge bummer. They threw the first years this year in the worst lecture hall on campus for some reason and I'm assuming max's class is larger because we never had seating issues (even in that lecture hall).

yeah it's pretty frustrating. i'm not sure of our class size, but we've lost a few people and there are still usually at least 10 of us on the floor in the mandatory classes. also, i'm not sure if it was the same for your class, but we have pbl on friday afternoons now. they just revamped it, and it's mandatory in person. we had it over zoom in the fall. it's not a difficult class and last semester it was kind of fun, but morale seems kinda low right now. hoping that'll change as we get more into spring.

The lectures are 50 minutes with 10 minute breaks. In my first year they tried to put all the lectures in the AM with labs and interactive stuff in the afternoon. I remember having a lot of afternoons off first year and every Tuesday afternoon you're off to either pursue selectives or just study. When you get to second and third year there's a lot more lectures and 8 hour days of class. I also can't sit through hours of lecture, so I never went to class and watched lectures (at 2x speed) in a way that suited me, but I know that's not for everyone.

it's still like this. sometimes we'll have 4 hours of one subject at a time, though - like one block of ossf (our phys/histo combo class) from 8-12; they try to break it into two hour increments per subject for our class though. we do get the 10 min breaks but they're not personally enough for me, and it's information overload at that point - though this varies from person to person, i think some people prefer doing one subject at a time. but i also attend virtually like 95% of the time, or watch the lectures later. we still have labs & clin skills in the afternoons.

1) it scares me that wildlife people didn't start getting in the wildlife clinic until mid 3rd year 🙁 but I guess, like you said, you gotta be annoying.

...ultimately I need to have something OUTSIDE of vet school to keep me sane lol. And although maybe it can be more difficult elsewhere to get experience, I'm assuming it'll just take more work to find those opportunities. And from what @max_wildlife said, you gotta bust butt everywhere.

for the wildlife stuff, the classes above me were really impacted by covid. volunteers are going to be allowed back on campus again, so it might get better. but again, reach out early if you decide on tufts. even if you do the mcm program and you want wildlife experience. it's a pretty popular place to be. i think they also pull from older classes first, so you might be on a waitlist before you even start - i know a couple people were. but again with covid restrictions sort of stabilizing i wonder if this will even out.

something to consider too is i don't think it's necessarily difficult to get a wildlife selective or volunteer opp one off-campus, especially now that covid is letting up. there's a few places in central mass that have historically taken tufts students for wildlife & exotics, and i think someone is even at a zoo this semester. getting into the clinic itself is more of the challenge. but at that point, i would think you're in the same boat as other schools.

kind of rambly again. sorry all. i haven't been able to get to sleep before 2am in days.

 

[WonderingStudent]

I agree with what Dina and max has said! I'm a current second year at Tufts. You can get work study at the wildlife center or at ZCAM (exotic pets/zoo med department in the hospital). A lot of my classmates do work in the wildlife center but it may be due to COVID restrictions our first year preventing classes above us from working in the wildlife hospital thus more spots for my class when restrictions lessened. There are definitely opportunities to gain more wildlife experiences here if that is your focus and you work for it (as is the theme). And even if you go to Tufts/any other vet school, you can always on breaks head over to NYC (coming from someone who is from nearby the city) or do research over the summer at Rowan. The latter is more based on you reaching out to those individuals at the college who conduct research and see what opportunities there are. Many of my classmates traveled all over for summer research/work opportunities so you aren't constricted by the school that you choose.

 

[supershorty]

I agree with what Dina and max has said! I'm a current second year at Tufts. You can get work study at the wildlife center or at ZCAM (exotic pets/zoo med department in the hospital). A lot of my classmates do work in the wildlife center but it may be due to COVID restrictions our first year preventing classes above us from working in the wildlife hospital thus more spots for my class when restrictions lessened. There are definitely opportunities to gain more wildlife experiences here if that is your focus and you work for it (as is the theme). And even if you go to Tufts/any other vet school, you can always on breaks head over to NYC (coming from someone who is from nearby the city) or do research over the summer at Rowan. The latter is more based on you reaching out to those individuals at the college who conduct research and see what opportunities there are. Many of my classmates traveled all over for summer research/work opportunities so you aren't constricted by the school that you choose.

This is true for the BI Summer Scholars research program too - you don't have to do it at your home institution. One of my classmates was from Pennsylvania and wanted to go home for the summer, but also wanted to do research, so she did the Summer Scholars program at Penn instead of UMN.

 

[IvyMoose]

It DOES NOT matter where you attend vet school if you want to do exotics/zoo medicine, it matters how much effort you are willing to put into networking and gaining experience. Even if you took every last damn zoo elective at the vet school with the most zoo electives, that STILL isn't enough to get you anywhere.

Wondering if this sentiment (and the entire thread from 2016) is still accurate in all of your eyes (or your friends' eyes) @max_wildlife and others

 

[supershorty]

Wondering if this sentiment (and the entire thread from 2016) is still accurate in all of your eyes (or your friends' eyes) @max_wildlife and others

Yes, I agree with it. It's about the networking.

 

[max_wildlife]

Wondering if this sentiment (and the entire thread from 2016) is still accurate in all of your eyes (or your friends' eyes) @max_wildlife and others

yeah. it's really hard to find jobs in the field. i'm also just a first year, so take what i say with a grain of salt.
but i can speak to it already to a degree. i've been in the wildlife field since 2011-2012ish; i'm an early-ish career biologist, and i see veterinary medicine as something i can bring to the field of wildlife biology to improve it. every ounce of stability i've been able to acquire in my adult life has come from networking meticulously from age 19 to now, and i turn 30 next month. but it also came from connecting with the right person. there's a wildlife vet that took me under her wing when i quit my wildlife tech job in tears five years ago. and she still teaches me, even hundreds of miles away. she sends me cases, got me on tv to talk about bats, published my writing, exposed me to the local biology community and still gets me involved even when i feel like i'm about to give up. it's been making one really solid connection, and networking from there that's helped me most. i owe her my career so far. hands down.

and while i'm sure there's a few souls that truly make their own way into the wildlife field, my guess a majority of people get to where they are by being elevated by another person or two. finding a mentor is important, and networking is key.

 

[DVMDream]

Wondering if this sentiment (and the entire thread from 2016) is still accurate in all of your eyes (or your friends' eyes) @max_wildlife and others

Yup, 100%, networking and experience >>>>>>>>>>> where you attended vet school. Why would you think networking/experience is less important than the school you attend? Trust me school name will not get you anywhere, talking to people, taking initiative, gaining experience, meeting the vets currently in that field, making connections are going to give you a much bigger chance than a random school name. No one gives two poops what school you attended.

 

[IvyMoose]

Yup, 100%, networking and experience >>>>>>>>>>> where you attended vet school. Why would you think networking/experience is less important than the school you attend? Trust me school name will not get you anywhere, talking to people, taking initiative, gaining experience, meeting the vets currently in that field, making connections are going to give you a much bigger chance than a random school name. No one gives two poops what school you attended.

Oh no I didn’t care about the name, I cared about the opportunities at the school itself (re: wildlife clinic on site at tufts)... penn doesn’t so I was just wondering if the electives/opp would really make a difference in the long run as advocating for yourself, but from what I’ve seen here it looks like it’s more networking. Thanks for the insight!