People just love this CSI crap.

[yaah]

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So I played golf today (another resident and I) and this other guy was playing alone so he joined us and when he found out we were in pathology he wanted to know about autopsies. The public just cannot get enough of this. He said he worked as a college recruiter last year and there were LOTS of high school kids who wanted to go into forensics. Because, clearly, being in forensics includes the following perks:

1) Working with hot babes and/or studmuffins.
2) Running into hot babes and/or studmuffins during the course of your duties.
3) Catching criminals by analyzing dirt. (I don't know about you, but MY mass spectrometer explodes and displays error messages when I put dirt in it).
4) Getting a sidearm to use when you are chased by angry criminals.
5) Working in great locations and never having to deal with smelly or unpleasant things.
6) Never having to deal with paperwork.

And now, as if two CSI shows aren't enough, they are coming out with CSI New York? Did I hear that right. How creative of them. Pretty soon network schedules will be the same every night.

Monday
NBC: Dateline Monday followed by Law and Order/Special victims unit
CBS: CSI Miami
ABC: Family oriented comedy with tough guy father and hot wife.
FOX: Who is america's top firefighter?

Tuesday
NBC: Dateline Tuesday followed by Law and Order/Homicide unit
CBS: CSI New York
ABC: Family oriented comedy with African American tough guy father and hot wife.
FOX: Who wants to marry a celebrity chef?

Wednesday
NBC: Dateline Wednesday followed by Law and Order/Undercover prostitution unit
CBS: CSI Anchorage
ABC: Family oriented comedy with Latino tough guy father and hot wife.
FOX: Who is America's sexiest barber?

Thursday
NBC: Dateline Thursday followed by Law and Order/Extortion unit
CBS: CSI Las Vegas
ABC: Family oriented comedy with single father and hot daughter.
FOX: America's craziest carnival ride operators.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............

 

[obadya00]

funniest post to date
😍 you lots Yaah

 

[deschutes]

So I played golf today (another resident and I) and this other guy was playing alone so he joined us and when he found out we were in pathology he wanted to know about autopsies. He said he worked as a college recruiter last year and there were LOTS of high school kids who wanted to go into forensics.

Oh dear. I say the solution is to ban TV.

Did the talk on pathology last as long as the game?

 

[PFCortex]

holy crap -- that was the funniest thing i have read in ages.....

 

[b&ierstiefel]

i've never watched these CSI shows...now i'm tempted to check them out...

this week is autopsy week for me on my path rotation..i'd like to form an opinion of forensics this week and compare to what i see on TV.

 

[2005]

I just finished a fornesics rotation and had a lot of fun teasing the CSI about how his job must be just like on TV. He turned so red I thought he was going to explode or have a coronary right on the spot.

 

[yaah]

I just finished a fornesics rotation and had a lot of fun teasing the CSI about how his job must be just like on TV. He turned so red I thought he was going to explode or have a coronary right on the spot.

Yeah I asked the ME here if he had ever been chased by a gun wielding maniac when he left after finishing a case and he said, "not yet." A lot of forensics is making your best guess. Like, there is a story in the media in michigan about a woman who somehow fell off a balcony but yet ended up face down in the water several meters away. One pathologist says the fall was enough to kill her (she had severe head injuries from the fall which can be recreated due to damage at the scene and on her) and she could have developed pulmonary edema from the head injury. The other says the fall was crippling but yet the ultimate cause of death was drowning. Both agree that the body had to have been moved after the fall because she was in no condition to move. (This is a murder trial for the guy who SAYS he found her lying face down in the water but they are charging him with moving the body after the fall and killing her).

BTW this was all in the newspaper so I am not giving any private info here. I know nothing about this case other than what i read in the paper.

Obviously, if this was CSI they would scrape her fingernails and solve the case right there. Wait...what's this? This change here could only be consistent with...Oh my God...she was poisoned!

 

[BamaAlum]

During my MSI I had the opportunity to take a forensics "elective." Basically, it was a series of lectures from the ME. We got to see crime scene photos from Dade County, FL where he did his fellowship and he taught us about time of death, basic toolmarks, etc. Anyway, he so despised these shows that he repeatedly said that Crossing Jordan was the biggest public health hazard in the country. I don't know why that is the case, but I also observed a couple of autopsies with him and that is just about all he talked about. I also noticed that none of the people that worked in the crime lab or the ME's office looked anything like Jill Hennesey or Jorga Fox. Rather disappointing if you ask me 😀

 

[yaah]

Yeah, so what is the deal with the fascination with crime shows? Is it just that people like to feel smart? Or is everyone secretly evil at heart and they are learning how to dispose of their victim if they ever kill someone?

We did have the police show up for one forensics case so far this month though. They were trying to determine if a woman fell accidentally or she was perhaps the victim of what we in the trade call "shenanigans." You see, she had met a nice upstanding gentleman at a local establishment and he had brought her home for some milk and cookies. I guess she didn't like the cookies because she got up to go to the bathroom and "accidentally" opened the door to the basement. It was an interesting lesson in human behavior - the first thing they did when they saw her with a cracked open skull at the bottom of the stairs was put some pants on her. Then they called the police.

It's always the milk and cookies, you know.

We actually solved the case though. Analyzed the way the droplets of blood from her fractured cranium splattered as she tumbled down the stairs and determined yes, she probably was pushed because the angle of the spatter was such. 🙄 🙄 🙄 Oh yeah, that and the gunshot wound to her temple.

 

[JulianDelphiki]

They were trying to determine if a woman fell accidentally or she was perhaps the victim of what we in the trade call "shenanigans."

From a famous (not really) movie:
"But our shenanigans are cheeky and fun. His are cruel and tragic."
"Which makes them not shenanigans at all really...evil shenanigans!"

 

[xanthines]

Ha Ha! Good thing Medical Investigators is here to take the heat off the ME's/CSI's.

-X

 

[Doctor B.]

These shows make our lives seem so dramatic. If they only knew the truth! Tox results take weeks to get back. The victims aren't all pretty and upper class citizens either.

Personally, I like to let civilians think that I'm just like those CSI guys...🙂

On of the forensics attendings I work with often tells the jury point blank that CSI is full of crap; usually he does this before the bulk of his testimony so that they realize some of the limits of forensic medicine. I'd be curious to see how CSI affects criminal proceedings. Hopefully at least some of the jurors realize it's fiction.

 

[desmangt]

These shows make our lives seem so dramatic. If they only knew the truth! Tox results take weeks to get back. The victims aren't all pretty and upper class citizens either.

Personally, I like to let civilians think that I'm just like those CSI guys...🙂

On of the forensics attendings I work with often tells the jury point blank that CSI is full of crap; usually he does this before the bulk of his testimony so that they realize some of the limits of forensic medicine. I'd be curious to see how CSI affects criminal proceedings. Hopefully at least some of the jurors realize it's fiction.

That's an intersting point. I wonder if the forensic pathologist's testimony will carry more weight in trial now because of shows like CSI? That's a good thing since most lay people think doctors are crooks and that medical science is "hog wash" and that herbs will cure your cancer. Why do forensic pathologists get so mad about CSI though? I can't figure it out. The forensic pathologists I know rant and flip out if you even mention the show.

 

[yaah]

I think they mostly get mad at CSI for the reasons ER docs get mad at ER. Because everything always has a definite answer on the show, and the normal "distractors" and other factors that you see in real life cases mysteriously do not appear to be involved in TV cases.

Most forensic docs, however, probably don't watch the show. The one who comes to my program I believe is also trained as a lawyer and he says "knowing HOW to testify" (i.e. what to say, what not to say, how to act) is equally as important as having the knowledge.

I'm not sure what it means. Either way, the lay public is getting more silly and jingoistic every year. Lawyers dumb things down for the jury and it works. You can't argue successfully about "reasonable judgment at the time" and things like that. It's all about results. Bad thing happens ---> Someone is to blame.

 

[Doctor B.]

I think Yaah is right. CSI gives laypeople unreasonable expectations as to the amount of information that forensic pathologists can provide. I'm sure that annoys forensics guys after a while.

 

[BeastNovot]

Agreed... people see these shows and expect that all the answers will be available and should be blatantly obvious. I've had an attending tell me about a family conference post-autopsy, where the family asserted "well on CSI they could figure this out!" Yes, and before the commercial break I'm sure.

Another issue is how glamorous everything is made out to be. In reality, an ME is generally stuck in a morgue, with decomposing bodies. No gun. No glory. And answers? Yes, we can figure out a lot, but so much of what an ME does is based on conjecture. Even the reference tables we use for organ size/weights are suspect. Most of the methods we use are ancient and crude. And the pay sucks. And the job opportunities are very limited.

However, having said all that... After 4 months of autopsy service, I still think it is pretty cool! Although Yaah and AndyM... there is an awful lot of poo when you run the bowel of an opiate overdose... mmmm, constipated...
So the moral of this story? Before overdosing, please use a laxative, out of respect for your local M.E....

 

[Homunculus]

"knowing HOW to testify" (i.e. what to say, what not to say, how to act) is equally as important as having the knowledge.

can't emphasize this enough. being able to explain complicated pathology and medical issues to "laypeople" is an art in and of itself. defintely the trickier part to forensics.

--your friendly neighborhood why do i still post in here caveman

 

[yaah]

We had a forensics lecture on firearms and ammunition today. And soon we will get to go to a gun range and learn how to fire guns. They are doing this because of the new requirement for pathologists to be armed, due to what has been shown on CSI and the similar shows. Our jobs are hazardous now, apparently.

Guns are complicated. I still dislike them and will probably never own one. I don't mind if other people own them so long as they do not use them against me to rob me of my precious hard earned money.