Perio Programs and applying

[Perious]

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Hey, I'm about to finish up my third year and am applying to Perio...but haven't seen any threads discussing programs.

Perio.org offers some stats, but doesn't reflect on faculty quality, resident satisfaction, or the balance placed between academics/research vs clinical training.

Anyone got any good ideas on what programs are good and what programs are most/least competitive? EX: Texas, UF, Nova, South Caroina, temple, Pittsburg, etc...

 

[Quattro DMD]

Hey, I'm about to finish up my third year and am applying to Perio...but haven't seen any threads discussing programs.

Perio.org offers some stats, but doesn't reflect on faculty quality, resident satisfaction, or the balance placed between academics/research vs clinical training.

Anyone got any good ideas on what programs are good and what programs are most/least competitive? EX: Texas, UF, Nova, South Caroina, temple, Pittsburg, etc...

I applied to 10 schools, got 9 interviews and attended 7 of them. I also visited almost all the places before my interview. It was a little overboard but it gave me more perspective.

Of the places I interviewed my tops were UAB, San Antonio, Baylor, UW, and VCU.
UW was expensive with no stipend and VCU didn't have a prosth program so those are disadvantages. I had an interview at UT Houston but couldn't attend; I've heard good things about their program.

I would have loved to go to Pitt but they charge 40k/year for the first 2 years and only 2 of the 3 residents get a stipend. One of things I noticed this year was that the applicant pool was very competitive. A lot of people had done 1-2 year gprs/aegds......one guy had even been a dentist for 13 years.

Hope this helps.

 

[Zubnaya Feya]

Hey Quattro,

I am a rising D4 also. Did you apply through PASS? I am getting a bit confused because most of the schools do not state a date when they start accepting applications. Some schools accept PASS, others do not mention it. When I go to PASS now, it is not open for 13-14 cycle.

What I am thinking is that I should probably apply to those programs that accept direct applications now so that I am more competitive. Is that a good plan?

Thanks!

I applied to 10 schools, got 9 interviews and attended 7 of them. I also visited almost all the places before my interview. It was a little overboard but it gave me more perspective.

Of the places I interviewed my tops were UAB, San Antonio, Baylor, UW, and VCU.
UW was expensive with no stipend and VCU didn't have a prosth program so those are disadvantages. I had an interview at UT Houston but couldn't attend; I've heard good things about their program.

I would have loved to go to Pitt but they charge 40k/year for the first 2 years and only 2 of the 3 residents get a stipend. One of things I noticed this year was that the applicant pool was very competitive. A lot of people had done 1-2 year gprs/aegds......one guy had even been a dentist for 13 years.

Hope this helps.

 

[Perious]

Hey thanks for the feedback, really helpful...

Anyone else have any commentary on reputations of programs or recommendations for acceptance?

 

[docdok]

I'm not perio, but i have friends who are in perio

If I were you I would try to go to a program that pays; ideally

VA West LA comes to mind..........

They have good things to say about that program. It pays a nice stipend and it is in west LA; right next to UCLA so great area to live.

Unfortunately; i believe they only take 1 resident.

UT San Antonio is supposed to be tops

Sorry i can't add more.

 

[Quattro DMD]

I'm not perio, but i have friends who are in perio

If I were you I would try to go to a program that pays; ideally

VA West LA comes to mind..........

They have good things to say about that program. It pays a nice stipend and it is in west LA; right next to UCLA so great area to live.

Unfortunately; i believe they only take 1 resident.

UT San Antonio is supposed to be tops

Sorry i can't add more.

A large stipend does not necessarily equate to a higher quality education.

I visited the VA in LA. While they pay 40k a year, they work you like a dog. It's a small program. They usually take 1/year but 2 every third year so 4 residents total. You do your didactics at UCLA. But as far as the clinic instruction its barely there. One resident told me he had to learn crown lengthening on YouTube before doing the procedure.

The Mayo program in MN pays like 50k/year but they only have 2 residents at any one time. They also only have 2 instructors, and most of their patients are employees or former employees of the hospital.


San Antonio is a top dog; a very intense program. They take 4 people, but one of their residents every year comes from the combined perio/prosth program so they really only take 3. Lots of research, lots of clinical time. San Antonio is a decent place to live. Clinically I still felt that UAB was up there with UTSA if not a little better.

 

[docdok]

Hi Quattro DMD

I have to agree with you that stipend and quality education don't go hand in hand.

VA West LA its in a great location and having no debt and getting paid is very very tempting for dental students getting over enormous dental school debt hangover!!

Your observations are true; i did the same at a different location and specialty, and i realized they don't pay you for nothing....its definitely about making you work. 100% agree on that.........its amazing how quality of programs vary so greatly...one would think all perio programs would be equal; sadly ain't true.....so is it for other specialties.....kinda scary actually

UAB; that school has great program not only perio but other specialties. It doesn't hurt that the school tuition is so damn CHEAP!!

 

[docdok]

I'm biased to UW

unfortunately, seattle is expensive to live in, and the tuition is high due to the state budget cuts...

Before that tuition was reasonable.............But overall UW i believe is tops as well =))

I hear Iowa is great too

 

[Quattro DMD]

I'm biased to UW

unfortunately, seattle is expensive to live in, and the tuition is high due to the state budget cuts...

Before that tuition was reasonable.............But overall UW i believe is tops as well =))

I hear Iowa is great too

I liked UW.....it's a nice campus. It has a lot of history too. It was the first perio program West of the Mississippi and was started by Saul Schluger in the late 1950's. They do lots of implants, however while the masters is not required, they pretty much make you do it, but do not give you much time in the curriculum to do your research. They're also expensive, 36k for first year, then 18k for second and third year; no stipend at all. They've also been having issues finding a permanent director. Dr. O'Neal retired and stepped down but then had to become director again because the other director had health issues. They talked about a new guy coming in after he retires from the Army. Also the chair of the department is not even a periodontist or even a dentist; I believe he is a Phd microbiologist...lots of politics going on with that. Overall though if you can afford it it's a great program.

 

[docdok]

I liked UW.....it's a nice campus. It has a lot of history too. It was the first perio program West of the Mississippi and was started by Saul Schluger in the late 1950's. They do lots of implants, however while the masters is not required, they pretty much make you do it, but do not give you much time in the curriculum to do your research. They're also expensive, 36k for first year, then 18k for second and third year; no stipend at all. They've also been having issues finding a permanent director. Dr. O'Neal retired and stepped down but then had to become director again because the other director had health issues. They talked about a new guy coming in after he retires from the Army. Also the chair of the department is not even a periodontist or even a dentist; I believe he is a Phd microbiologist...lots of politics going on with that. Overall though if you can afford it it's a great program.

Yes its unfortunate that tuition is not cheap, but it has lot of history, greeat program and the reputation of UW is solid.

However, tuition is not unreasonable compared to a lot of programs in California. Even UCLA is pricey for a public school.

Both these states are having budget problems so they pass the buck on to these poor students......

But once a student interviews at UW i'll be hard pressed to have them be unimpressed. Even with having trouble finding a permanent director the program is chugging along with minimal problems. I rather they have trouble finding a permanent director because they want the best vs just plugging in anyone who can fill the chair.

I just wish these programs got GME funding like OS and Pedo it sucks that one is considered doing "residency"yet you are told to pay. But at least they tell you from the get go it is MSD program and not under residency umbrella.

 

[Quattro DMD]

Yes its unfortunate that tuition is not cheap, but it has lot of history, greeat program and the reputation of UW is solid.

However, tuition is not unreasonable compared to a lot of programs in California. Even UCLA is pricey for a public school.

Both these states are having budget problems so they pass the buck on to these poor students......

But once a student interviews at UW i'll be hard pressed to have them be unimpressed. Even with having trouble finding a permanent director the program is chugging along with minimal problems. I rather they have trouble finding a permanent director because they want the best vs just plugging in anyone who can fill the chair.

I just wish these programs got GME funding like OS and Pedo it sucks that one is considered doing "residency"yet you are told to pay. But at least they tell you from the get go it is MSD program and not under residency umbrella.

Overall UW is a great program, and cost factors aside it would be an amazing place to go to school and an awesome place to live (lake views all the time!)

UCLA pays 20k/year in stipend and only requires you to pay to tuition if you get the masters.....most don't get it. With that being said 20k in LA isn't much....and the traffic is terrible. Overall I didn't feel that UCLA was that great of a program and if you're not a CA resident good luck getting in. All their residents went to UCLA or UCSF.

Lots of programs have pros and cons, the best way to determine a good fit is to visit as many as possible.

 

[Tekado]

Has anyone heard anything about University of Minnesota or Michigan?

 

[ShaunT]

Is a perio externship at some kind of school or hospital an absolute (unsaid, unofficial but expected) requirement for being considered for a spot in perio? Any idea from the general trend of people getting accepted in the past?

 

[mmasurf]

why do perio when you can take courses and do everything yourself, i understand its a tough speciality but CE courses and you can do eveyrthing instead of spending 3 yrs

 

[aznboi89x]

what happens if something goes wrong? Even if you thought the procedure is a cake and you have done it countless times and something ends up badly. So you're gonna tell the jury or the judge that u took some C.E. classes (ie, ranging from few days to 1 month) when Masters of Science learn the specialty for 2 WHOLE years?
Your argument will look stupid in front of the judge if you said that.

theres a reason why specialist are good at what they're doing?


U dont want a lawsuit or get sued for malpractice nowadays...

 

[docdok]

Quattro DMD

man, you and I are of the same mind set! Different area but overall same mindset....how funny

Tekado -

Minnesota and Michigan; both are great. Don't know much about Minnesota except the weather there is cold pretty much from October to May, but the school is damn cheap =) Michigan; great school overall; what I hear about Michigan is that it is old school perio from what I was told by a periodontist i know. IE he tells me they believe in non-surgical therapy and surgical as last resort.......can't add more than that..sorry

ShaunT; Perio Externship is absolutely not needed....my friends who went perio none went or thought of that route.......that is a very mighty pricey route to take in terms of time and money.....i just can't justify to anyone to do that unless they were a foreign student; or their grades were so terrible

MMAsurf - yes your logic is understandable...and honestly i see that quite a bit in SoCal. I don't see a problem with that but honestly very very very few GP's I would say have the skills or knowledge to justify this route. They can say all they want but it doesn't substitute 3 years of education and totally committing oneself to one area of dentistry. But then again most dentists are practice owners so what goes on in that office no one can say..............

But most dentists are pretty honest and are business savvy......

if they are smart instead of wasting time on something they probably won't master they would instead concentrate on hiring specialist to do the work for them and collect a % from the work of the specialist.

This is very common at least in SoCal for obvious reasons.

Whether this is right/justified/etc can be put up for argument, but that is whats happening in SoCal.

IE: there are so many dentists; GP & Specialists that a savvy practice owner would go this route.

Of course this only works if the GP owner has the patient base to justify getting a specialist.

Hence, so many job offers for GP most times stipulate the äbility" to do 3rd molar EXT and Molar endo....

 

[Quattro DMD]

Has anyone heard anything about University of Minnesota or Michigan?

I don't know much about Minnesota. However when I went to the ASDA annual session in Minneapolis last year the 2nd and 3rd year perio residents gave a presentation and I was impressed with their surgical cases. I didn't apply there because (according to the AAP website) their start date was 2 weeks before I even graduated.

Michigan is an old program and Dr. Hom-Lay Wang is pretty well know. But like dockdoc said they're very conservative when it comes to cutting bone......as opposed to UW which has a more aggressive approach.

 

[Quattro DMD]

Is a perio externship at some kind of school or hospital an absolute (unsaid, unofficial but expected) requirement for being considered for a spot in perio? Any idea from the general trend of people getting accepted in the past?

Externships are not required, and they are not like OS externships where you actually get to do stuff. You're basically observing and in some cases assisting.

Ironically after all the money I spent, the program I ended up choosing was the one school that I didn't do a perio externship at. However I did do a six week summer research externship in their oral path department 2 years before.

 

[Quattro DMD]

why do perio when you can take courses and do everything yourself, i understand its a tough speciality but CE courses and you can do eveyrthing instead of spending 3 yrs

You're held to the same standards as a specialist, so rest assured that if something goes wrong there will be a specialist critiquing your work in front the dental board.

People choose to do perio for different reasons. I enjoy the surgical aspect of perio and the oral medicine and patient relationships associated with it. OS is great too but an entirely different animal when compared to perio.

 

[ShaunT]

..

 

[docdok]

ShaunT

Don't worry too much about your board scores; you can't change it so worry about improving what you can at this point; ie AEGD, doing something perio related. Perio short term externship if desired etc

Since boards are P/F now that is why i say this.

If you apply to a broad number of programs your chances of landing a perio position somewhere should be pretty high. Especially the high tuition schools.

PPI/PEF - i assume this is PASS? When i did PASS PPI was done electronically; you add your PPI Recommenders on pass and pass sends email for them to fill it out.

PEF? Don't know what this is. if it is the letter of recomendation like PASS then your recommenders would write the letter of recommendation and upload it to pass as well.

I believe it is 3 PPI and 1 PEF

Check each schools application requirements; it varies with every school...if you don't do this then you will run in to problems with applcations not being complete etc.

Good luck; Perio can be tough in the job market, but if you train well and offer your services to GPs you can travel office to office and make a nice income until you get established.

Don't think Ortho and OS have it easier; in SoCal all dentists have it tough when they enter the job market after school.

 

[Lethstang]

Could you guys share why you would like to pursue perio? From what I've read and seen when talking to perio's, its a declining field. This is anecdotal and just my personal experience but 2 have told me the specialty wont even be around in 20 years. Implants which used to be their procedure are now done by......everyone. U.S students are shying away from the field in such large quantities that residencies are filled with foreign dentists using it as a backdoor into a DDS.

This is the picture from where I am sitting. What do you guys see?

 

[Quattro DMD]

Could you guys share why you would like to pursue perio? From what I've read and seen when talking to perio's, its a declining field. This is anecdotal and just my personal experience but 2 have told me the specialty wont even be around in 20 years. Implants which used to be their procedure are now done by......everyone. U.S students are shying away from the field in such large quantities that residencies are filled with foreign dentists using it as a backdoor into a DDS.

This is the picture from where I am sitting. What do you guys see?

I was talking about this with a seasoned periodontist the other day. He pretty much told me that even though everyone is doing implants now, traditional perio surgery will still be there in the future. Osseous, crown lenthening, and grafting will still be there. If you own a practice the hygiene money is really good too.

After going on my interviews I was very impressed by the applicant pool. Many people did AEGDs/GPRs, or had years of experience, or both. The competition was pretty stiff. The higher tuition programs will always have lots of foreign trained dentists, but honestly I don't see the applicant pool really shrinking that much.

At the end of the day though I'd still rather be doing perio than working as a GP.....I just find the work more appealing.

 

[charlestweed]

Could you guys share why you would like to pursue perio? From what I've read and seen when talking to perio's, its a declining field. This is anecdotal and just my personal experience but 2 have told me the specialty wont even be around in 20 years. Implants which used to be their procedure are now done by......everyone. U.S students are shying away from the field in such large quantities that residencies are filled with foreign dentists using it as a backdoor into a DDS.

This is the picture from where I am sitting. What do you guys see?

Many of my wife’s classmates told her the same thing when she applied for perio many years ago. Now, she works at some of these classmates’ GP offices. Now, they realize that my wife made the right decision.

Success in perio pretty much depends on how good you are at communicating with the GPs and how well you treat their patients. A periodontist who lacks these skills will likely say that perio is a dying field. The same goes for endo and OS, who also rely 100% on GP referrals for survival. I know I wouldn’t survive if I were a perio because I am horrible at dealing with the GPs.

Is it worth spending 3 extra years for perio residency (vs taking implant CE classes)? I don’t know. The 3-year residency simply serves as a ticket to practice perio. When you claim yourself as a periodontist, you let the GPs know that “ hey, I am NOT your competitor and if any of your patients ever needs perio tx, I am your guy/gal.” The periodontist gets to place implants every day (and becomes good at it) because he/she gets cases from different GP offices (or he/she travels to different GP offices). If you are a GP, you will only get implant patients from your own office.

The same goes true for ortho. When I first graduated from an ortho program, my clinical skills were probably the same as those of the GPs who take ortho CE classes. I gain the experience from treating a lot of ortho cases (and zero general dentistry case) every day. I’ve learned by treating a lot of difficult cases that many GPs wouldn’t dare to touch. By limiting my practice to ortho, I am able to convince the GPs to refer their patients to me.

 

[celtic310889]

Hello everyone. I am a foreign trained dentist, just graduated from my dental school. Was thinking of taking up the boards and GRE.

Do the residency programs you guys are mentioning, accept foreign students as such? I mean without a DDS or without any experience in US in any clinical form or that is essential considering the competition is very stiff?

 

[caffeinehigh]

Could you guys share why you would like to pursue perio? From what I've read and seen when talking to perio's, its a declining field. This is anecdotal and just my personal experience but 2 have told me the specialty wont even be around in 20 years. Implants which used to be their procedure are now done by......everyone. U.S students are shying away from the field in such large quantities that residencies are filled with foreign dentists using it as a backdoor into a DDS.

This is the picture from where I am sitting. What do you guys see?

Coming from a current perio resident in a top program in the country I would say that the procedures I see being most common for our speciality in the future are mucogingival, peri-implantitis, anterior GBR, single unit esthetic implants and multi unit full arch cases, and severe/aggressive/refractory disease cases. A lot of strict perio disease is being "managed" at the GP level with S/RP and/or local antibiotics and typically referral isn't being made until cases are at a severe level.

I think that placement of implants by an increasing # of practitioners from various scopes of training has both positive and negative ramifications both for our profession and for our patients. The access to treatment, cost of treatment, and increased GP comfort with implant prosth are all positives, but inexperience in certain cases can lead to compromised outcomes or second surgeries to mask placement and/or custom abutment necessity. Not to mention the surgical 'misadventures' that may occur (with any practitioner).

A successful specialist will need to convince both the referral and the patient of the value of the services provided.

On the topic of externships, I don't think they are required to gain acceptance, but I do think that an informed applicant who has actually spent some time at a program or two will be able to decide what type of program they like. It's very difficult if not impossible to get a feel for what the daily life of the residents is like on a one day interview where you're nervous and the clinic may or may not be running as usual. I spent time at 4-5 programs for 3-5 days and I think it really helped solidify what type of program I wanted as well as what each program actually entailed.

 

[jigabodo]

I don't know much about Minnesota. However when I went to the ASDA annual session in Minneapolis last year the 2nd and 3rd year perio residents gave a presentation and I was impressed with their surgical cases. I didn't apply there because (according to the AAP website) their start date was 2 weeks before I even graduated.

Michigan is an old program and Dr. Hom-Lay Wang is pretty well know. But like dockdoc said they're very conservative when it comes to cutting bone......as opposed to UW which has a more aggressive approach.

They are. Ramfjord was previously the head of UMich and they are one of the first few groups to study osseous surgery extensively and compared them with other treatment modalities. Essentially they found out that long-term, different treatment modalities have no significant differences regard to periodontal health. Ramfjord was also the 1st one to come up with Modified Widman in the States which is a conservative surgical approach to treat periodontitis. That's why UMich in general is pretty conservative about bone removal.

Compared to Ramfjord, Smith and Olsen sort of did the same study at UW but their results showed osseous surgery had more favorable results. That's why UW is usually more aggressive with their osseous.

 

[DrFelt]

They are. Ramfjord was previously the head of UMich and they are one of the first few groups to study osseous surgery extensively and compared them with other treatment modalities. Essentially they found out that long-term, different treatment modalities have no significant differences regard to periodontal health. Ramfjord was also the 1st one to come up with Modified Widman in the States which is a conservative surgical approach to treat periodontitis. That's why UMich in general is pretty conservative about bone removal.

Compared to Ramfjord, Smith and Olsen sort of did the same study at UW but their results showed osseous surgery had more favorable results. That's why UW is usually more aggressive with their osseous.

I love this. Citing authors/publications to explain the different philosophies amongst programs. I'm surprised the OMFS boys haven't hijacked this thread yet.

 

[Perioapplicant]

Hey everyone, thank you for all of the input so far.
If anyone has anything to say about the following programs, I would appreciate your feedback:
UW (Wash)
Mich
LSU
UAB (Alabama)
UI (Iowa)
UCLA
West LA VA
UCSF
Loma Linda

Thank you, 😍

 

[Quattro DMD]

Hey everyone, thank you for all of the input so far.
If anyone has anything to say about the following programs, I would appreciate your feedback:
UW (Wash)
Mich
LSU
UAB (Alabama)
UI (Iowa)
UCLA
West LA VA
UCSF
Loma Linda

Thank you, 😍

I received interviews at UW, UAB, UCLA, and I visited West LA VA.

UW-solid program with good history, about 150 implants per resident, facilities okay, expensive/no stipend but in SEATTLE, new program director in the near future, masters not required but expected, not a lot of time for your research within the curriculum but must be done on the side.

UAB-great program, one of the best, 200 plus implants per resident, virtually every type of implant and graft material available, perio department updated but school is older, prosth shares the department space, old director promoted so new director, VA rotation 1 day/week for 10 months each year, masters optional, have digital radiographs but still have paper charts!

UCLA-smaller program, 2 residents per year, perio program in basement, doesn't seem that aggressive-light in sedation, they pay a stipend and masters is optional, all the residents were from UCLA or UCSF, overall an okay program but I wasn't that impressed

West VA in LA-small, 4 residents for the 3 year program, very little instruction, resident said that "I learned crown lengthening by watching YouTube", sometimes have to work in the OD department, director was pretty rude, almost didn't even want to meet with me, even after I drove six hours there, overall bad impression of the program.

I don't know much about LSU, but the old LSU perio program relocated to University of Colorado after Katrina hit (essentially starting the UC perio program) and some but not all of the faculty when back to NOLA after the recovery to re-start the program

 

[Perioapplicant]

Thank you so much for all that info Quatro!

 

[Perioapplicant]

Anyone has any opinion on Stony Brooks, looks like a solid clinical program...
Thanks

 

[caffeinehigh]

Anyone has any opinion on Stony Brooks, looks like a solid clinical program...
Thanks

No research at all should leave plenty of time for other things? Why are you looking at so many programs with tuition?

 

[Perioapplicant]

Hi Caffeinehigh, which programs without/low tuition would you recommend me checking out? Most if not all programs that I have checked out so far have tuition.

Thanks

 

[jackjichao]

Anyone got any good ideas on what programs are good and what programs are most/least competitive? EX: Texas, UF, Nova, South Caroina, temple, Pittsburg, etc...[/QUOTE]

Actually regardless of the tuitions and the state you are staying in, which school's program offers the best clinical training per se?

 

[caffeinehigh]

Hi Caffeinehigh, which programs without/low tuition would you recommend me checking out? Most if not all programs that I have checked out so far have tuition.

Thanks

Programs without tuition would be military, VA, San Antonio, Nebraska and I think at one point UMKC had revenue sharing (but I think this has stopped and they lost their program director recently as well). These are just a few off the top of my head.....

 

[Quattro DMD]

Hi Caffeinehigh, which programs without/low tuition would you recommend me checking out? Most if not all programs that I have checked out so far have tuition.

Thanks

The VA programs do not have tuition, VCU has no tuition but also no stipend, UCLA only has tuition if you do the masters. Most schools require some tuition. The more competitive programs have some tuition that is offset by a stipend.

 

[Perioapplicant]

Anyone has any information about UTHSC (Tennessee) Perio?

Thanks

 

[jigabodo]

UT(San Antonio) perio would be a great program for networking. David Cochran is currently the chair and he is extremely well known in the field. He is also the upcoming ITI president after Danny Buser (current ITI president) is done with his term.

 

[Tekado]

UT(San Antonio) perio would be a great program for networking. David Cochran is currently the chair and he is extremely well known in the field. He is also the upcoming ITI president after Danny Buser (current ITI president) is done with his term.

Plus his name is COCHRAN !!!

 

[MiamiDent]

Does anyone know anything about the programs at Rochester, NYVAMC, Iowa, Detroit-Mercy, Nebraska and UIC? Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[MiamiDent]

Anyone? Bueller?

 

[Quattro DMD]

Does anyone know anything about the programs at Rochester, NYVAMC, Iowa, Detroit-Mercy, Nebraska and UIC? Thanks in advance for any help.

Nebraska is suppose to be a pretty good program as is Oklahoma. I heard Detroit-Mercy and UIC perio are not so hot. A resident a few classes above me visited Rochester and said it was strange place, the director was weird and the referrals come from private practice.

 

[DrFelt]

Does anyone know anything about the programs at Rochester, NYVAMC, Iowa, Detroit-Mercy, Nebraska and UIC? Thanks in advance for any help.

Rochester: Almost all the residents are foreign and seemed that most had completed a GPR at Rochester. The clinic felt very small and old. No IV sedation training.

Iowa and Nebraska: Both very solid programs. Lots of cases, IV sedation and both program directors are amazing. I interviewed at both of these programs and would highly recommend either one of them

 

[MiamiDent]

Thanks for the responses. It's very helpful to hear from those in the know. Are you guys currently in residencies? I know this question has been asked many times and in various ways, but.... what are your plans after residency? Do you worry about job opportunities post-graduation? Do you find that the opportunities are a bit different these days (traveling to GP offices for implants and perio surgery) or do you think the private practice periodontics office model is alive and well? Do you worry about referrals? Just trying to get an idea on the state of the profession as well.

 

[jigabodo]

Thanks for the responses. It's very helpful to hear from those in the know. Are you guys currently in residencies? I know this question has been asked many times and in various ways, but.... what are your plans after residency? Do you worry about job opportunities post-graduation? Do you find that the opportunities are a bit different these days (traveling to GP offices for implants and perio surgery) or do you think the private practice periodontics office model is alive and well? Do you worry about referrals? Just trying to get an idea on the state of the profession as well.

I am currently a R1 going to R2. I don't plan to open up my practice right away when I graduate. I'd probably work as an associate or buy into a practice when I first get out. Maybe even part-time teaching.

Most of our attendings own private practices. I think the private practice model can still do very well. Referrals will come if you have the skills and personality.

 

[caffeinehigh]

Does anyone know anything about the programs at Rochester, NYVAMC, Iowa, Detroit-Mercy, Nebraska and UIC? Thanks in advance for any help.

Only interviewed at Nebraska out of this list but the PD is a great guy, and they have a good mix of young faculty and older faculty. Clinic was recently remodeled which is really nice, and they don't compete with OMS for any procedures except for the one OMS intern per year. They take more call then some other places because of the lack of other specialities, and the lack of a prosth program might be a limiting factor in larger cases. When I was there they were only placing Nobel in house, but had a good experience rotating through the VA (which is why they are able to pay you the $20k stipend). Cost of living in Lincoln would be really low, so all in all I think NU is a pretty good place to be. They take 2 residents per year.

I am a current resident in another program and I think the future of the speciality is very strong. In the end if you're able to provide a high quality service both to your patients and your referrals you won't have any trouble.

 

[AggieDMD]

Hey everyone, thank you for all of the input so far.
If anyone has anything to say about the following programs, I would appreciate your feedback:
UW (Wash)
Mich
LSU
UAB (Alabama)
UI (Iowa)
UCLA
West LA VA
UCSF
Loma Linda

Thank you, 😍

Hi all,

I literally joined SDN to discuss this topic. I have used the resources and discussions on SDN while I was applying to dental schools and residency but I never had the courage to actually write something until now. That is because I feel really passionate about perio and I got a lot of flack from the faculty at my dental school for deciding to specialize in it. I was the only one in my class to go to perio and let's just say I was teased a lot for going to be a "gum gardener". There is a lot of misinformation out there and many of the older faculty didn't seem up to date with the depth of our field. That is why I feel that we should support perio enthusiasts!

If perio is something you constantly think about and see yourself enjoying then you should go for it. I went to dental school thinking I would be a general dentist but after the first perio class, perio was always in the back of my mind, nagging me. When it came time to apply for residency I debated between GPR's and Perio. I had this feeling that I wouldn't be happy doing anything else but Perio, so I went for it. Like Quattro, I applied to a lot of programs and spent a lot of money. I ended up interviewing at 8 of them. I don't regret this experience because I really got to see what I liked about certain programs and what I didn't. I also learned what residency would be like and what to expect (lots of lit review, reading, research, teaching, and SURGERY). I didn't get to do an externship because of finances. Of the ones on this list, I interviewed at LSU, VA West LA, UCLA and UCSF. I can honestly say that if you go to any of these 4 programs you will get a lot of surgery time and experience. The differences come with the teaching styles and approaches. It all comes down to how your personality will mesh with the PD and their philosophies. LSU has a really nice PD. She actively seeks out surgeries for her residents so that they have the opportunity to do a good variety of procedures and gain a solid foundation. VA West LA seemed to have a little less instruction but you get to do a lot of surgery. You don't get to meet too many of their faculty during the interview and the interview day is short. UCLA has an interesting schedule but great periodontists who teach you the surgeries with what seems like a lot of one-on-one time. UCSF has great faculty with a little less structure from what I saw. They also have a lot of great periodontists to work with and from what it seemed, enough patients. Expect to be there the whole day.

I can honestly say that with all 8 of the programs I saw, you would become a good periodontist with the skills and knowledge to make it. They all have approximately the same requirements and are all accredited. For me it came down to personality and approach and where you see yourself fitting in. To read about programs is one thing, but to meet with the faculty and see how they operate is totally different. That is why I don't regret going to so many interviews. You're bound to find the one that will fit you and your needs. I'm sorry this is so long but this is how I approached applying/interviewing for residency and I guess I just had to get it off my chest 😛. If any of you have any questions let me know. I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my abilities.

 

[tiffany10985]

Hi all,

I literally joined SDN to discuss this topic. I have used the resources and discussions on SDN while I was applying to dental schools and residency but I never had the courage to actually write something until now. That is because I feel really passionate about perio and I got a lot of flack from the faculty at my dental school for deciding to specialize in it. I was the only one in my class to go to perio and let's just say I was teased a lot for going to be a "gum gardener". There is a lot of misinformation out there and many of the older faculty didn't seem up to date with the depth of our field. That is why I feel that we should support perio enthusiasts!

If perio is something you constantly think about and see yourself enjoying then you should go for it. I went to dental school thinking I would be a general dentist but after the first perio class, perio was always in the back of my mind, nagging me. When it came time to apply for residency I debated between GPR's and Perio. I had this feeling that I wouldn't be happy doing anything else but Perio, so I went for it. Like Quattro, I applied to a lot of programs and spent a lot of money. I ended up interviewing at 8 of them. I don't regret this experience because I really got to see what I liked about certain programs and what I didn't. I also learned what residency would be like and what to expect (lots of lit review, reading, research, teaching, and SURGERY). I didn't get to do an externship because of finances. Of the ones on this list, I interviewed at LSU, VA West LA, UCLA and UCSF. I can honestly say that if you go to any of these 4 programs you will get a lot of surgery time and experience. The differences come with the teaching styles and approaches. It all comes down to how your personality will mesh with the PD and their philosophies. LSU has a really nice PD. She actively seeks out surgeries for her residents so that they have the opportunity to do a good variety of procedures and gain a solid foundation. VA West LA seemed to have a little less instruction but you get to do a lot of surgery. You don't get to meet too many of their faculty during the interview and the interview day is short. UCLA has an interesting schedule but great periodontists who teach you the surgeries with what seems like a lot of one-on-one time. UCSF has great faculty with a little less structure from what I saw. They also have a lot of great periodontists to work with and from what it seemed, enough patients. Expect to be there the whole day.

I can honestly say that with all 8 of the programs I saw, you would become a good periodontist with the skills and knowledge to make it. They all have approximately the same requirements and are all accredited. For me it came down to personality and approach and where you see yourself fitting in. To read about programs is one thing, but to meet with the faculty and see how they operate is totally different. That is why I don't regret going to so many interviews. You're bound to find the one that will fit you and your needs. I'm sorry this is so long but this is how I approached applying/interviewing for residency and I guess I just had to get it off my chest 😛. If any of you have any questions let me know. I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my abilities.

Thank you very much for your input and feedback.it really means a lot to students like me who are dying to get into one of the perio programs.infact all the inputs and discussions on this forums is very helpfu.thank you all once again.i would like to ask you few things regarding perio residency.i want to apply next year,how do I start building my profile other than observerships?how to start getting some research experience?as there is little time left for the next cycle to begin do you think an online/campus 15 credit clinical research certificate program will help?i am a foreign trained dentist and specifically interested in perio program.any help is appreciated.thank you in advance.

 

[AggieDMD]

During dental school, I started a research project with a faculty member but was sidelined by various issues (IRB, flaky faculty). One of our classes also required us to work on our own research project and write a formal proposal with the option of pursuing it further. I also worked in a research facility for cancer in undergrad so that experience may have helped but no one really asked me about my research during the interviews except for if I had any ideas of what kind of research I would do once in residency. I know for most of the programs, research is a required component during residency but as far as how much of it you should do prior to residency, it's variable. I think that the class you mentioned can definitely help, especially if you have no other research experience. Time should also be spent doing extracurricular activities. They want to see that you can balance your life with a variety of interests - even things done outside of dental school that are not related at all. From interviews, I got the feeling that most perio programs are like any other professional program, they want well-rounded candidates that can do a variety of things.