Pharm.D. and then... MED SCHOOL?

[ConfusedBeing23]

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For all you Pharm.D. students (or grads), how many of you have or are considering going to med school after getting ur doctorate? For a high school senior who has to decide b/w St. John's [0-6] and NYU (pre-pharm/pre-med), this is kind of a crucial factor. I don't know which one of these two i want to do, but i know it's one of them and not anything else.

If I want to go to med school after my pharm.d., what extra stuff must i do outside of my pharm.d coursework and pharmacy shadowing?


Thanks

 

[DrBowtie]

I think you should decide now if you want to do med or pharm...
You would be wasting everyones time if you went through Pharm just so you could then go on to med school.

 

[BiOGoly]

For all you Pharm.D. students (or grads), how many of you have or are considering going to med school after getting ur doctorate? For a high school senior who has to decide b/w St. John's [0-6] and NYU (pre-pharm/pre-med), this is kind of a crucial factor. I don't know which one of these two i want to do, but i know it's one of them and not anything else.

If I want to go to med school after my pharm.d., what extra stuff must i do outside of my pharm.d coursework and pharmacy shadowing?


Thanks

I'm not sure getting a PharmD will make you a more competitive Med school applicant, but it will certainly make you a much "poorer" applicant.

 

[DrBowtie]

I'd like to also add, that by going to Pharmacy school first, you would be losing close to $600,000 in opportunity cost + cost of pharm school.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'd like to also add, that by going to Pharmacy school first, you would be losing close to $600,000 in opportunity cost + cost of pharm school.

Someone's been paying attention in econ.

Seriously, I was about to post almost the same thing!

 

[dgroulx]

Get your bachelor's degree first with the prepharm/premed program. That will give you a better chance to see what you like better. I was a premed/biology major and chose pharmacy as my career path. I wasn't even thinking pharmacy when I started college.

While in college join groups and get some leadership experience. Do lots of volunteer work. Volunteer in both medical and pharmacy settings.

 

[Caverject]

yeah, do pharm first. It will help you getting into med school. You would be a shoo in

 

[ConfusedBeing23]

actually all 6 yrs together would cost a total of around 70k. i don't know how the opportunity cost is THAT high tho ($600k). Can you explain?

 

[DrBowtie]

actually all 6 yrs together would cost a total of around 70k. i don't know how the opportunity cost is THAT high tho ($600k). Can you explain?

3 years of pharmacy school is 3 years that you won't be collecting a physician's salary of ~200K a year.

 

[pharmer]

I did exactly what you are talking about. Not a bad route if you stay in state for both med school and pharm school. If you can keep your gpa over 3.6 and do decent on the MCAT you will definitely have a leg up on peers applying to med school at the same time. I am about to start my fourth year of med school and feel like my experience in pharmacy school has definitely helped throughout the past three years. I do believe, however, after your intern year the playing field will be leveled and the skills/knowledge you aquired in pharm school will no longer be much of an advatange since you will get such an amazing crash course in pharm during that first post graduate year. This is where you actually end up seeing less return on your intial investment of going to pharm school. Those 2 extra years (if you did like me 2 years prereqs and 4 year professional program) of not getting paid (and even worse you are paying) kind of sting when you think about it.

 

[tupac_don]

For all you Pharm.D. students (or grads), how many of you have or are considering going to med school after getting ur doctorate? For a high school senior who has to decide b/w St. John's [0-6] and NYU (pre-pharm/pre-med), this is kind of a crucial factor. I don't know which one of these two i want to do, but i know it's one of them and not anything else.

If I want to go to med school after my pharm.d., what extra stuff must i do outside of my pharm.d coursework and pharmacy shadowing?


Thanks

Well both options work. The advantages of doing pharmacy first are not to be overlooked either.

1) You will have a carreer in your hands, if for any reason med doesn't workout you have a fallback career

2) You can accelerate and do pharm in 3 years.

3) You can have the COOLEST job as a medical student and you can moonlight as a pharmacist making great money if you don't go into a too competitive of a medical specialty.

4) You will defiently have a leg up on your classmates, it won't be a huge advantage, since 1st year courses, for the most part are not pharmacy related, with maybe exceptions being physio and biochem. However, you will definetly have a leg up in 2nd year and on rotations (at least initially).

5) It will defiently give you a leg up when applying for a residency (you already have an equivalent of a doctorate) and instead of saying to residency directors "yea I showed my leadership by volunteering, being a president of Surgery interest group yada yada yada; You can just say Yep I am a pharmacist and that's the end of that.

6) Oh yea you don't have to do all that volunteering and shadowing a doctor that other students do. Having pharmacy experience is enough. The only other thing you should try to do is see if you can publish a paper, that will help you.


Disadvantages:

1) You are paying for 2 costly degrees, and losing money doing all that schooling.

2) The catch is that you have to have a high average in Pharm ( 3.6 and above, to be trully have a leg up over other applicants). Having a 3.0 in pharm school, won't help you, rather it will hurt you and you won't get in over someone with 3.5 in UGD.

3) You might get burnt out, but this largely depends on your personality and how much you like to study.

4) If you think you can get into med school with only UGD go med.


p.s. I heard that University of Pitsburg used to have something that they allowed pharmacists (Pharm D.'s) to start into 2nd year of med school, if they wanted to pursue MD after Pharm D. You should look into that and see if any other schools offer something similar.

Good luck.

 

[BiOGoly]

3 years of pharmacy school is 3 years that you won't be collecting a physician's salary of ~200K a year.

If you want to get technical about it, if he chose to complete an MD degree after his pharmD he would have the opportunity cost of 7+(depending on residency) years of pharmacist's salary in addition to the expense of eight years of professional school and the opportunity costs associated with not working during that period...you're talking WELL over a million dollars.

 

[PharmD2MD]

yeah, do pharm first. It will help you getting into med school. You would be a shoo in

Uhh...not really. I'm going headed to medschool this fall and I really don't think my background was a big advantage. In fact, I took a lot of crap off interviewers about why I was changing professions. They found it hard to believe that I was genuinely interested in medicine and couldn't understand why I was about to give up a good profession for 8-10 years of agony.

If your really interested, keep your grades up and do well on the MCAT. I had a 3.86 GPA and a 31 on the MCAT and barely got looked at. Granted, my MCAT's were just average, but nonetheless, I didn't perceive much benefit of having my Pharm.D throughout this process.

 

[DrBowtie]

If you want to get technical about it, if he chose to complete an MD degree after his pharmD he would have the opportunity cost of 7+(depending on residency) years of pharmacist's salary in addition to the expense of eight years of professional school and the opportunity costs associated with not working during that period...you're talking WELL over a million dollars.

I agree you can look at it both ways. I think it would end up pretty close to 600k in the end though since you do get paid in residency. Precisely why it is costly to do both. Choose one or the other.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Uhh...not really. I'm going headed to medschool this fall and I really don't think my background was a big advantage. In fact, I took a lot of crap off interviewers about why I was changing professions. They found it hard to believe that I was genuinely interested in medicine and couldn't understand why I was about to give up a good profession for 8-10 years of agony.

If your really interested, keep your grades up and do well on the MCAT. I had a 3.86 GPA and a 31 on the MCAT and barely got looked at. Granted, my MCAT's were just average, but nonetheless, I didn't perceive much benefit of having my Pharm.D throughout this process.

I think he was being sarcastic.

 

[goodb29]

Just FYI....Most starting salaries for pharmacists is 100-125,000/year, even clinical/hospital...And not all physicians make 200k, if you are a family practitioner or pediatrician 130 - 160k and if you spcialize the salaries are pretty high (radiologists 400k+, surgeons, 300-800k, anesthesiologists 400-500k)....Granted pharmacists wont make as much as a physician but then again you have to factor in how much physicians pay in liabililty insurance ( on average 30 - 100,000/year) depending on speciality, so their actual take home pay would be less than a pharmacist who only has to pay 200-250 dollars/year...just something to think about...

 

[insipid1979]

Just FYI....Most starting salaries for pharmacists is 100-125,000/year, even clinical/hospital...And not all physicians make 200k, if you are a family practitioner or pediatrician 130 - 160k and if you spcialize the salaries are pretty high (radiologists 400k+, surgeons, 300-800k, anesthesiologists 400-500k)....Granted pharmacists wont make as much as a physician but then again you have to factor in how much physicians pay in liabililty insurance ( on average 30 - 100,000/year) depending on speciality, so their actual take home pay would be less than a pharmacist who only has to pay 200-250 dollars/year...just something to think about...

You also have to factor in how much sooner Pharmacists start working. 6 years in some cases I guess...even more if compared to some specialists. Plus the more stable and less (especially compared to some doctors) hours and the opportunity to have a registry job on the side. They can easily pull in more than 100-125k a year if they were so inclined.

Then you can even get into higher education costs and less time for investments and more time to pay off loans. Pharmacists can easily be more well off than a family practitioner. Of course this is all assuming that Pharmacists salaries basically stay the same and don't drop . I don't think there will be too many Doctors willing to work for under 100k.

 

[mph2pharm]

I agree with BrettBachelor and others who suggest that you should choose one or the other. I know you say that you like and could see yourself doing both but maybe if you really thought things through a little more, you would see that you have a stronger desire to do one versus the other (have you shadowed both physicians and pharmacists?). Think about what you see yourself doing over your lifetime...do you want to have more direct patient interaction, do you want greater say so over patient care and treatment, do you have more of an interest in prescribing vs. dispensing, etc. if so then maybe med school is a better option for you.

Both degrees require long-term educational committments (medicine more so than pharmacy considering that you can't practice medicine without a 3+ year residency). Choosing both would likely be VERY costly and with all of those years in school for both degrees, just think about how your quality of life may suffer (less time with family/spouse, are you thinking about having kids?, loss of productive years working and making money). Also in another post I read awhile back concerning pharmacist who decided to go on to med school, they were discussing the potential benefits of having both degrees. The major benefit they discussed was having an easier time with some of the med school courses but once they got out and started practicing, it really didn't give them any leverage as far as salary was concern. Maybe an MD/PharmD combo would look good if you wanted to work in the pharmaceutical industry?

This is obviously a tough decision for you but I truly believe that your heart is leading you a little closer in one direction vs. the other. Best wishes!

 

[i.<3.pharmacy]

I think you should decide now if you want to do med or pharm...
You would be wasting everyones time if you went through Pharm just so you could then go on to med school.

I completely agree with you on this.

It's much better to take extra time before making such a big decision. My suggestion would be to take the pharmacy prerequisites during your first two years in college. These courses are basically identical to what a pre-med student would be taking anyways... biology, inorganic and o chem, calculus, physics, etc. No matter what healthcare profession you choose to go in, these are the basic requirements period. During this time, I would suggest exploring different fields by volunteering/shadowing instead of deciding on something straight out of high school. This would give you the opportunity to find what you are truly interested in and you could choose from there what suits you best.

You would be saving yourself a lot of time and money.

 

[PharmD2MD]

I think he was being sarcastic.

No sarcasm. I am totally serious. Another reason they don't like pharmacists is that we can easily quit medicine because pharmacy is solid, well paying job that is always in demand.

I don't want to discourage anyone, I'm just letting you know what you are in for.

 

[ConfusedBeing23]

well guys, I chose NYU and i'm taking out the loans right now and whooooooooooo!! it's gonna take me a while to pay these things off!

 

[desaipriyanka18]

Just FYI....Most starting salaries for pharmacists is 100-125,000/year, even clinical/hospital...And not all physicians make 200k, if you are a family practitioner or pediatrician 130 - 160k and if you spcialize the salaries are pretty high (radiologists 400k+, surgeons, 300-800k, anesthesiologists 400-500k)....Granted pharmacists wont make as much as a physician but then again you have to factor in how much physicians pay in liabililty insurance ( on average 30 - 100,000/year) depending on speciality, so their actual take home pay would be less than a pharmacist who only has to pay 200-250 dollars/year...just something to think about...

I am pharmacy student planning to do MED after pharmacy. Just wanted to know how long is the residency for anesthesiologist and radiologist.
Thanks,
Priya

 

[NonTradMed]

The best way is to go to college and be premed/pre-pharm. The classes are similar and you have an extra few years to decide. Do one or the other, I can't imagine what good it would do to have both since you can't really leverage extra pay from it. Also, you may be in danger of burning out from so much school.

 

[kellia]

p.s. I heard that University of Pitsburg used to have something that they allowed pharmacists (Pharm D.'s) to start into 2nd year of med school, if they wanted to pursue MD after Pharm D. You should look into that and see if any other schools offer something similar.

My best friend is getting ready to apply to med school with a pharmD. I researched this for her benefit, and sorry! This program no longer exists! Everyone starts during year 1!

 

[Caverject]

No sarcasm. I am totally serious. Another reason they don't like pharmacists is that we can easily quit medicine because pharmacy is solid, well paying job that is always in demand.

I don't want to discourage anyone, I'm just letting you know what you are in for.

I think he was being sarcastic.

Actually, I was being sarcastic as this question has been asked time and time again.

 

[MedicineNutt]

Medical school look down on PharmD's just FYI...unless you have a good explanation on why you wanna switch careers, then you have a great chance? hell, your degree speaks for itself...it's just the explanation they're worried about! they wanna train doctors for the long-run, get what i mean?

 

[insipid1979]

Medical school look down on PharmD's just FYI

hell, your degree speaks for itself...it's just the explanation they're worried about!

Did you just contradict yourself in the same post?

 

[magnumbreaker]

I

 

[Sosumi]

I think opportunities cost might have been overestimated. First of all Medical school requires a bachlor or more. A PharmD could be obtained in 6 years or less (2 years Pre-Pharmacy + 3 Years Pharmacy + 1 year of rotation). One could forgo the rotation and go straight to Med school, which means only 5 years. Second, if you get rejected, you could do the rotation and then get paid almost $100 K a year. Last, if you did get in med school, it is kind of cool to be called "Dr." in there. 😛
Note: all of this operates on the assumption that the school grants you the Phd or master degree after 5 years.

Medical schools technically don't require a bachelor's, just pre-med coursework. However, they're all much more competitive to get in that at least a bachelor's degree is needed to be considered for medical school.

You CANNOT get a PharmD without that rotation year -- ohh how I wish that you could right now 😉 The only way to obtain a PharmD in less than 6 years is if you do 2 years of undergrad then get accepted and go through a 3 year accelerated PharmD program. So if you never had any degree while applying and skip that rotation year, I doubt the medical school would grant you admission. I'm not sure what you mean by "Phd or master degree after 5 years"...