Pharm.D./MBA

[Jbrl]

As someone who is considering a dual degree Pharm.D./MBA program and will need to decide at some point in the near future, I have a few questions I'm hoping someone here can help with. I've seen some threads here and there and have asked multiple people, but never hurts to ask for more feedback.

1. Say you are entertaining the possibility of going to school for an MBA after your Pharm.D. Your personal career vision includes working in senior management and beyond - could be 5, 10, 20 years down the line, doesn't matter. You'll be graduating with minimal debt - let's say, below 40k. Your school is a state school. The time you'd be in the dual degree program would be roughly 1 year (full-time student) and would cost ~25k, possibly less with scholarships.

Alternatively, you could wait 3-5 years after graduation to enroll, when you've had more experience under your belt and have honed in on your desired trajectory. This would allow you to try your hand at the more prestigious schools (Harvard, UPenn, Duke, etc). No doubt it would be more expensive unless you are awarded merit scholarships/fellowships and would take ~2 years instead of ~1.

What would you do? There's an option 3 also, which is neither.

2. Is there anyone here with personal experience in attaining an MBA straight after Pharm.D.? Do you think it was a good decision? Did you feel you had enough work/networking experience to draw from, or did you feel you were lacking in those respects?

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[SClENCE]

MBA is a waste of time to even get in my opinion

 

[Jbrl]

In what way? Naturally, I'll disagree with you but am interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[BidingMyTime]

The #1 reason to get a MBA is because of the networking opportunities it provides. So if there is any chance that you could get into a prestigious program such as Harvard (seems pretty unlikely for most people), then that would be the ideal.

For most pharmacists, an MBA will offer neglible benefit for the types of jobs they are going for. If you have hopes of having a job someday that will most likely require an MBA (like CEO of a hospital), and if it seems unlikely you would get into a prestigious MBA school, then sure, go ahead and go for it now.

 

[Lnsean]

MBA is a huge waste of money and time unless you're in top 10 programs.

 

[SClENCE]

Like BidingMyTime said the MBA is irrelevant for at least 90% of pharmacy jobs if not more. You have to be looking for a very specific employment opportunity for it to be of benefit. I you are dead set on such a position then by all means go for it. I think a lot of people tack on a MBA just to have it on their resume which is pointless and that's where my initial comment came from.

 

[Jbrl]

The #1 reason to get a MBA is because of the networking opportunities it provides. So if there is any chance that you could get into a prestigious program such as Harvard (seems pretty unlikely for most people), then that would be the ideal.

For most pharmacists, an MBA will offer neglible benefit for the types of jobs they are going for. If you have hopes of having a job someday that will most likely require an MBA (like CEO of a hospital), and if it seems unlikely you would get into a prestigious MBA school, then sure, go ahead and go for it now.

The opportunity to study at HBS or Wharton would certainly be nice though, if only for the experience of being around people who are so much better than you and will probably do great things (or be investment bankers I guess). It's of course not a guarantee, but I'm confident that I have a better than chance probability of getting in, at least. 😀

I would also have more experience to extrapolate to the material and better internalize whatever it is I'd be learning.

And yes, my goal would be to be upper management in industry or wherever life will take me down the road.

MBA is a huge waste of money and time unless you're in top 10 programs.

It gets a little messier when you start to dig deeper. For example, Columbia and UPenn are said to have fantastic finance programs, potentially better than Harvard, but Harvard is said to be better for consulting.

Like BidingMyTime said the MBA is irrelevant for at least 90% of pharmacy jobs if not more. You have to be looking for a very specific employment opportunity for it to be of benefit. I you are dead set on such a position then by all means go for it. I think a lot of people tack on a MBA just to have it on their resume which is pointless and that's where my initial comment came from.

Agreed.

 

[Lnsean]

It gets a little messier when you start to dig deeper. For example, Columbia and UPenn are said to have fantastic finance programs, potentially better than Harvard, but Harvard is said to be better for consulting.

Not really. I consider those schools in the same league and part of top 10.

 

[Jbrl]

Not really. I consider those schools in the same league and part of top 10.

Hah, fair. My main point is that the rankings change when concentrations are considered. I'll refer you to what I wrote in reply to BidingMyTime.

 

[Lnsean]

Hah, fair. My main point is that the rankings change when concentrations are considered. I'll refer you to what I wrote in reply to BidingMyTime.

If you've already made up your mind then by all means, do it. No one here can validate or invalidate someone's dreams. It is a personal journey.

As for MBA programs, the top 10 are the well-known and established programs. If you have to mention certain "caveats" then that program doesn't qualify as a well-known.

 

[gwarm01]

What would be a good "companion" masters degree to supplement a PharmD? I've mentioned in previous threads that I was interested in getting a masters in health informatics, but the general consensus was that I would be better served to continue getting clinical experience and then aggressively pursue any opportunities across the nation. A friend of mine completed a masters in public health concurrently with her PharmD, but to the best of my knowledge works in a standard institutional setting that doesn't utilize the degree.

Is there a masters degree that could be considered a career booster? As a non-residency trained pharmacist, my current career path seems to be working towards board certification in my field then shooting for a specialist position once I have that experience, but lately I have been curious about alternative career paths.

 

[Jbrl]

If you've already made up your mind then by all means, do it. No one here can validate or invalidate someone's dreams. It is a personal journey.

As for MBA programs, the top 10 are the well-known and established programs. If you have to mention certain "caveats" then that program doesn't qualify as a well-known.

If you were to ask me about my dreams and inclination, it would be to do just as you outlined. Most people have told me the same thing. I actually wanted to see whether anyone had the opposite opinion.

 

[Jbrl]

What would be a good "companion" masters degree to supplement a PharmD? I've mentioned in previous threads that I was interested in getting a masters in health informatics, but the general consensus was that I would be better served to continue getting clinical experience and then aggressively pursue any opportunities across the nation. A friend of mine completed a masters in public health concurrently with her PharmD, but to the best of my knowledge works in a standard institutional setting that doesn't utilize the degree.

Is there a masters degree that could be considered a career booster? As a non-residency trained pharmacist, my current career path seems to be working towards board certification in my field then shooting for a specialist position once I have that experience, but lately I have been curious about alternative career paths.

To be frank, I think it would help you much more to first know what niche you want to carve out for yourself and then see whether there are barriers to entry in terms of education. For example, HEOR prefers people with Ph.D. or MPH because they will help give you the analytical skillset needed. A degree without a purpose is a waste of energy and money.

 

[gwarm01]

To be frank, I think it would help you much more to first know what niche you want to carve out for yourself and then see whether there are barriers to entry in terms of education. For example, HEOR prefers people with Ph.D. or MPH because they will help give you the skillset needed. A degree without a purpose is a waste of energy and money.

This is why I'm interested in the informatics degree, as that is where I see myself in a few years. I'm just unsure of the benefit of that degree, when it seems that clinical experience and technical aptitude seem to be what most jobs are after. I'm currently trying to position myself as our department's IT guy, taking on any roles that involves automation or software that I can. Unfortunately, our IT department is system-wide and any favor I've garnered with my department might not translate into a full-time position. In a world where this is becoming a PGY2 residency, I wonder if a masters degree + several years of experience would make me a competitive candidate for such a position?

 

[Jbrl]

This is why I'm interested in the informatics degree, as that is where I see myself in a few years. I'm just unsure of the benefit of that degree, when it seems that clinical experience and technical aptitude seem to be what most jobs are after. I'm currently trying to position myself as our department's IT guy, taking on any roles that involves automation or software that I can. Unfortunately, our IT department is system-wide and any favor I've garnered with my department might not translate into a full-time position. In a world where this is becoming a PGY2 residency, I wonder if a masters degree + several years of experience would make me a competitive candidate for such a position?

Hm, do you know anyone who has the degree and works in your field?

I really don't know too much about the degree itself nor about the field. I do think, though, that you will be pharmacist first, IT second, so I would work with this in mind. You may end up lagging behind if you choose to get the Masters. What does it offer in terms of hard skills that you CAN'T learn while on the job? I don't think we're yet at the point where IT pharmacists need the degree since it's still a somewhat new field, though I could be mistaken.

 

[gwarm01]

Hm, do you know anyone who has the degree and works in your field?

I really don't know too much about the degree itself nor about the field. I do think, though, that you will be pharmacist first, IT second, so I would work with this in mind. You may end up lagging behind if you choose to get the Masters. What does it offer in terms of hard skills that you CAN'T learn while on the job? I don't think we're yet at the point where IT pharmacists need the degree since it's still a somewhat new field, though I could be mistaken.

All of the pharmacists at my hospital who transitioned to our IT team just happened to be lucky enough to have a job when the mandatory EMR transition was happening. Just searching nationwide on Indeed, it seems any combination of residency, experience, and in some cases an informatics degree would help.

If I decide to pursue it, a local university offers an online program. I could take it and still work full-time. My hospital reimburses education costs too, but then I would be obligated to stay for a couple years without any guarantee of working in IT.

 

[panasoniku]

Great thread. I'm actually in the process of applying to MBA school right now after 5 years of work experience in informatics and automation at the end user (hospital) level. My goal is to work with automation or emr companies and work on business strategy and alliances. I am also considering healthcare tech investment or hospital CIO.

I agree that unless you are going to a top 10 school switching industries is very difficult since you will not have the name or network. One of the students I talked to joked that "Well people suddenly started responding to my emails when it had the mit.edu instead of gmail!" If you just need a MBA to move up your corporation, I think any MBA will suffice. However, I say shoot for the best because you never know if you will actually stay at where you are 🙂. On that note, I think a dual Pharmd/MBA program is mostly useless because you have NO work experience. Unless you are 100% interested in Pharma industry and have your contacts lined up, you may end up at Walgreens (no joke, thats where some of my PharmD/MBA classmates ended up).

I started visiting some of the top 10 schools that I was interested in and it really enforced my desire to pursue a MBA. I think you should do the same. See if the program really fits what you want. I was so focused at applying to HBS that I actually came away from the program unimpressed. I visited Sloan and was blown away by the professionalism and more structured program. I will visit Wharton, Kellogg, and Booth next.

 

[gwarm01]

Great thread. I'm actually in the process of applying to MBA school right now after 5 years of work experience in informatics and automation at the end user (hospital) level. My goal is to work with automation or emr companies and work on business strategy and alliances. I am also considering healthcare tech investment or hospital CIO.

Just who I needed to speak with. I'm two years out of school, working in a clinical staff position and trying to find a break into informatics. I had mentioned getting a masters in health informatics while continuing to work full-time. Do you think that would help? In your experience, what sort of candidates were most likely to work in informatics? Any tips you could give someone who wishes to break into that niche (and certainly doesn't want to quit a full-time job to do a PGY2 in informatics)?

 

[panasoniku]

Just who I needed to speak with. I'm two years out of school, working in a clinical staff position and trying to find a break into informatics. I had mentioned getting a masters in health informatics while continuing to work full-time. Do you think that would help? In your experience, what sort of candidates were most likely to work in informatics? Any tips you could give someone who wishes to break into that niche (and certainly doesn't want to quit a full-time job to do a PGY2 in informatics)?

I wish I could be of more help, but I have the same old informatics cliche of "I fell in love and got lucky". I read about the Masters in Informatics (at UIC right?) and am not sure how that would help you. Did you try to visit the program and find more information?

Continue to develop your clinical skills. See if you can use them leverage developing templates and order sets in the emr program. Does your hospital use automated dispensing cabinets? See if you can handle any projects on the side to optimize or become an educator on how to use them/fix them. Who handles your formulary and keeping your charge master up to date?

 

[Jbrl]

Great thread. I'm actually in the process of applying to MBA school right now after 5 years of work experience in informatics and automation at the end user (hospital) level. My goal is to work with automation or emr companies and work on business strategy and alliances. I am also considering healthcare tech investment or hospital CIO.

I agree that unless you are going to a top 10 school switching industries is very difficult since you will not have the name or network. One of the students I talked to joked that "Well people suddenly started responding to my emails when it had the mit.edu instead of gmail!" If you just need a MBA to move up your corporation, I think any MBA will suffice. However, I say shoot for the best because you never know if you will actually stay at where you are 🙂. On that note, I think a dual Pharmd/MBA program is mostly useless because you have NO work experience. Unless you are 100% interested in Pharma industry and have your contacts lined up, you may end up at Walgreens (no joke, thats where some of my PharmD/MBA classmates ended up).

I started visiting some of the top 10 schools that I was interested in and it really enforced my desire to pursue a MBA. I think you should do the same. See if the program really fits what you want. I was so focused at applying to HBS that I actually came away from the program unimpressed. I visited Sloan and was blown away by the professionalism and more structured program. I will visit Wharton, Kellogg, and Booth next.

I'm 100% about industry, but life isn't clear-cut like that, so who knows.

Thank you for the thorough reply. You've sealed the nail in the coffin for me. Definitely not the proper metaphor, but can't think of anything better now. Haha.

 

[panasoniku]

I'm 100% about industry, but life isn't clear-cut like that, so who knows.

Thank you for the thorough reply. You've sealed the nail in the coffin for me. Definitely not the proper metaphor, but can't think of anything better now. Haha.

Hope everything works out! I just want to point out, when you say senior management did you mean DOP? In all honesty, I wouldn't do the dual PharmD/MBA unless you are absolutely sure you know the direction you are going and need the MBA. There are plenty of working online hybrid MBAs from well established schools (NYU Stern, CMU Teppar, some state schools) that you can do while you work and develop your pharmacy professio. You'll probably get more out of it.

As far as pharma industry, I think a post grad industry fellowship will be more beneficial than a MBA. See Rutger's. Just my two cents though 🙂

 

[PharmacistReb]

MBA is a waste of time to even get in my opinion

Is this an opinion or are you basing this on hard numbers?

Everyone I know that has gotten a MBA with their PharmD has done quite well and received administrative positions/management. This is my opinion based on people I know who have gone this route. I'm just curious if you have an opinion that is based on people you know or are you citing evidence of this as truth? I ask because I'm curious.

 

[Jbrl]

Hope everything works out! I just want to point out, when you say senior management did you mean DOP? In all honesty, I wouldn't do the dual PharmD/MBA unless you are absolutely sure you know the direction you are going and need the MBA. There are plenty of working online hybrid MBAs from well established schools (NYU Stern, CMU Teppar, some state schools) that you can do while you work and develop your pharmacy professio. You'll probably get more out of it.

As far as pharma industry, I think a post grad industry fellowship will be more beneficial than a MBA. See Rutger's. Just my two cents though 🙂

When I say senior management, I was referring mainly to positions within industry (senior manager, director, senior director, and higher). Not easy, but that's where I'm looking to be down the road.