Pharm-Doc battle

[norafena]

I am just stepping in pharm school. So I still rely mostly on this forum to learn about the "real" issues of this profession.
Long story short, I see intense tension in many threads between physicians and pharmacists. Is this cultural? Peple focused on money and status.

I come from a country where physicians do not make much money, they are very highly respected though. I could easily say that their sole reason to become a physician is to HELP people with NO and (s)....and that's probably why we don't have that kind of tensionsb/w professions in that part of the world.

I personally see pharmacy and medicine as very distinct disciples although close professions. One focuses on drugs (chemistry) the other diagnosis (biology).
So why the constant fighting over taking each others responsibilities. I don't think a pharmacist should perscribe and I don't see why a physician would feel any better than a physician, UNLESS if we factor in money and status....

I might be wrong, naive or may be ignorant of both professions

However, I am sure the culture/values has a lot to do with this issue.

Just a thought.

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[twester]

I don't see any conflict between physicians and pharmacists. I know three physicians personally who rely on the advise of the pharmacists in their clinics and who were highly enthusiastic about my entry into pharmacy. We have physicians come and lecture to us at school. I've never had a conflict with a physician at work (just one hard of hearing guy who's natural style was to yell).

This topic has really kind of been beaten to death.

 

[Jbuprepharm]

it depends on the physician, usually the younger ones are more likely to want/accept a pharmacists help

 

[DoctorRx1986]

I fail to comprehend this huge dilemma between physicians and pharmacists. Truth is, both are doctors and deserve equal respect and prestige. Both professionals go through years of education and these professions are among the most important in society, secondary to the teaching profession. If it weren't for physicians, disease would kill off most of humanity and lifespan wouldn't be as long. Pharmacists are the gate keepers to drugs. If it weren't for pharmaceuticals, once again, people wouldn't live very long and if they did, their lives would be rather miserable and unhealthy. Neither profession is superior to the other. So, keep that in mind. Pharm.D. and M.D. are both doctors and instead of such controvery between the two in healthcare, I believe they should coordinate their vast skill sets for the enhancement and well being of society. It is rather unprofessional for professionals in both fields to allow a sentiment of superiority to distance them and cause strife when the focus should be on bettering the lives of patients.

Physicians and pharmacists are surely the most important healthcare providers without a doubt. While others, such as physical therapists, occupational therapists, and nurses have their roles in patient care, it is the physician and pharmacist who are the ultimate gatekeepers in health care. Neither can exist on its own. The diagnosis aspect corresponding to the
M.D.'s skills is incomplete in practically all cases without a pharmaceutical remedy. In other words, if a patient is diagnosed with hypertension or most other pathologies, a drug or other compound is almost always used in conjunction to other types of therapy. Similarly, the role of the pharmacist is incomplete without a valid diagnosis from the physician. Diagnosis and drug therapy are not mutually exclusive.

Remember that the top two providers in healthcare whom people seek out the most are the physician and pharmacist. Physical therapists, nurses, paramedics and other workers, while certainly involved in patient care, are not as frequently available as the M.D. or Pharm.D. If you bother to read the labeling on most medication bottles, you will certainly read, "In case of accidental ingestion, please consult your doctor or pharmacist." Or "If you are suffer from hypertension, diabetes, liver failure, speak to your pharmacist or doctor". So, physicians and pharmacists are truly at the top. Let's always remember this.

 

[njac]

For the most part I see physicians who are very excited to have pharmacist involvement and take our recommendations in stride.

On the other hand sometimes they just don't "get" some things - for instance, something I see a fair amount - patient with iffy renal function grows a bug that is sensitive to tobra. Physician automatically wants to go the tobra route, but it may be sensitive to something else as well. Sometimes they're gung ho on that drug and it takes a lot of work to convince them that we do not want to put a nephrotoxic drug on that patient if we have any other options at all.

But overall, I feel like a welcome and respected member of the healthcare team. Patients are happy to talk to me when I come in their rooms, nurses are comfortable with asking me questions, and physicians usually take my recommendations in stride and often ask intelligent questions (who knew they don't teach them to give digoxin QOD if CrCl<50) - and I'm still a student and never fail to identify myself as such.

 

[RxWildcat]

I don't believe there is a real "battle" or "tension" between MDs and PharmDs. I know on these forums people argue back and forth but thats not always how it is in the workplace. I think the majority of people who become physicians are truly interested in medicine and not in it for the money. Its been said a lot here, but there are LOTS easier ways to make a lot of money than medicine.

I personally see pharmacy and medicine as very distinct disciples although close professions. One focuses on drugs (chemistry) the other diagnosis (biology).
So why the constant fighting over taking each others responsibilities. I don't think a pharmacist should perscribe and I don't see why a physician would feel any better than a physician, UNLESS if we factor in money and status....

I don't really know what you're trying to say here, but both pharmacy and medicine involve lots of biology and chemistry. Pharmacy today actually focuses on patient pharmacotherapy outcomes just as much as drugs. I don't think prescriptive authority has anything to do with money or status.

 

[norafena]

Thank you ALL for your input. I always like to hear about others perspectives on issues.
I appreciate the politeness and respect on yor replies

 

[pharmdch]

It is rather unprofessional for professionals in both fields to allow a sentiment of superiority to distance them and cause strife when the focus should be on bettering the lives of patients.

Yet, your very next sentence asserts the superiority of physicians and pharmacists to all other healthcare providers.

Physicians and pharmacists are surely the most important healthcare providers without a doubt.

...how embarrassingly contradictory.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I've never met a medical student or resident who spent a month on rounds with a pharmacist that doesn't respect their input. The older physicians sometimes think pharmacists are incapable of critical thought because back in their day RPhs just did the lick, stick, count, pour thing and nothing else. It's obviously different today.

 

[Rumplestiltazepam]

Physical therapists, nurses, paramedics and other workers, while certainly involved in patient care, are not as frequently available as the M.D. or Pharm.D. If you bother to read the labeling on most medication bottles, you will certainly read, "In case of accidental ingestion, please consult your doctor or pharmacist." Or "If you are suffer from hypertension, diabetes, liver failure, speak to your pharmacist or doctor". So, physicians and pharmacists are truly at the top. Let's always remember this.

 

[firefighter9015]

This so called battle between pharmacists and doctors could be solved with some simple education. As other posters have mentioned the newer docs who work with the pharmacists during their training come out of school very willing to work with the pharmacist and there is very little strife. It is the older docs who sometimes have an issue turning to pharmacists. This is where we as a profession have to educate them on what we can contribute to the profession. As WVU stated, they still see us as pouring, counting and sticking and nothing else, yet the profession has evolved. However, pharmacy has historically been behind times on uniting fronts and doing the whole advocacy/education thing. But that is a different issue for a different time.