Pharmacist Salary Thread

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Love the Jags!! Hoping for a good year! Just graduated from UF, so I'm a GATOR fan as well!! I see you're at FAMU. Have a few new grads from FAMU working with me...they're great!
 
To Passion4Sci's point, not all students nor all schools are created equal.
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You're correct, that is the case. I totally agree, and have alluded to it quite a few times.

The problem is, going back to law, that even if someone who graduates from, say, McGeorge (UoP's law school) is better at law in practice than someone who graduated from Harvard Law, it doesn't matter. At all. Not a frakkin' bit. Because the McGeorge graduate simply will not have the same knock-knock-knock of opportunity that the Harvard grad. will, and that's as close to a natural law as it gets. Graduate from Harvard now and you're in as an associate billing 200 bucks an hour for at least 1000 hours a year on the partner track. Out of McGeorge you're fighting in a sea of other mediocre graduates trying to vy for a position at the nearest "We Don't Get Paid 'Til You Do!" firm.

Contrast starkly to pharmacy. Now, and in the foreseeable-ish future, a Pharm.D is a Pharm.D. Sure, UCSF has brand recognition in just about every pharmacy school across the U.S., but are its graduates known to be THE BEST, like a Harvard graduate is? No, because a UCSF CoP grad probably won't find his/her way to the east coast, for one, and for two, as Mikey convinced me of (no small feat), there is no reliable ranking system. That was my point. The future might dictate the advent of such a ranking system for pharmacy, which might prove to be difficult, but I'm sure it's possible as the profession matures.

Injin, you're correct, networking is always important. And for right now, and like I said, in the foreseeable future, networking will get you ahead in pharmacy. But how long will it be until if you don't graduate from a "T15" pharmacy school, you're screwed (like law?). Maybe never! One could counter my argument with, "But all med. schools are basically the same!" Well, kinda, but consider USMLE Steps 1-3. The scores on those dictate which track you're eligible for, right? Pharmacy, right now does not have such a system or such a stratification. You basically get your Pharm.D., you do residencies while getting ready to sit NAPLEX and CPJE/MPJE/whatever, you get licensed and voila. You're a clinical pharmacist, a retail pharmacist, a nuclear pharmacist... whatever. Not going to mince words on the particular specialties, however they are nothing compared to the way medicine is separated.

Thus I can conclude that one of two things can, and maybe will, happen "soon":

1. A national ranking system that means something to "everyone", like Law has, is created and withstands the test of time and everyone can generally agree is legit. When my wife says, "Harvard" or "Columbia" for which law school she graduated from, people will oooh and ahhh. If she said she graduated from Hastings University, no one would have any clue, they'd be like, okay great, another "me too" lawyer. Like pharmacy.

2. What I said above about USMLE Steps applies to Pharmacy. Now you'll graduate from Pharmacy school, and get your Pharm.D., but before you can necessarily slot into residencies or get licensed in X specialty, you'll need to take the USPLE Steps for Pharmacy. Score a 50-50-50, and you're stuck in Wag's. Score 95-95-95, and you can work in Wag's if you feel like it, but you can also slot right next to SpirivaSunrise and her gorgeous pictures over there in Big Kids forum.

Now, that begs the question, "But Passion, are you saying Retail is somehow inferior to Nuclear?" I will simply shrug, and declare firmly that it is a judgment call you can make for yourself. Is Dermatology superior to Internal Medicine? Which one requires higher Step scores? Dermatology. Does it make it superior? Relative to the person judging the two, right?

Now I can't comment about Dental school and how it goes for them. I have no idea. Someone educated in the Dental track for school/licensing can chime in, maybe SHC if she drops in here. I talk about medicine and law in reference to pharm. because I have relatives in both fields, currently in the schools, applying to the schools, or graduating from the schools and thinking about qualifying licensure exams in the near-ish future.

And... I'm spent.

😴
 
Passion4Sci said:
Now I can't comment about Dental school and how it goes for them. I have no idea. Someone educated in the Dental track for school/licensing can chime in, maybe SHC if she drops in here. I talk about medicine and law in reference to pharm. because I have relatives in both fields, currently in the schools, applying to the schools, or graduating from the schools and thinking about qualifying licensure exams in the near-ish future.

And... I'm spent.

😴
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Okay, I will add to dental since Passion did such a good job with Law, Medicine and Pharmacy. 🙂

Dental schools have no rankings. Its the only professional school that doesn't offer any rankings. Dental rankings came out once in 1993, but it was deem worthless, so no rankings were ever used. I don't know why...and there are no reasonable explanation, except "its too subjective, and there are no real ways to really rank dental schools." etc.

The ADA did a great job on controling the amount of new dental schools popping up every year. (something that pharmacy schools should learn. 🙄) There are only 52 or 53 dental schools in the USA the last time I checked and its extremely hard to open up a new dental school, so there will be no surpluses of dentists anytime soon. (unlike pharmacy)

The name of the dental school does NOT matter at all. Especially if you are not looking into residency, again the name does NOT matter. If you are looking into residency, the name still doesn't matter that much. You have to be in the top 10% of the class to even have a chance to do a residency. And if you want ortho then you will have to be #1 in your class and have a million research publications to even get considered. 🙄

Of course there are always exceptions...I think the ONLY dental school that will give you an advantage is Harvard. They are completely P/F and there are NO class rankings. So everyone that graduates from Harvard has a great chance of getting into Ortho, b/c there are no rankings...just a NICE name! 😉 However, Harvard gets 2000+ applications a year and they only accept 35 students and interview 100. Its also the only dental school that rejected me. 🙁

Lastly, the thing about dental schools is that its too damn expensive. Either get into your state school or don't go at all.:laugh: A private school+ living expenses can cost 300k+ for 4 years. And if you attend USC, Penn, NYU, etc. it will cost you 400K+. Don't know about you but I rather buy a beach house with that 400K+ or use it as a down payment for one. :laugh:
 
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so based on this thread, by the time i graduate i should be a pharmacist in daytime and a bartender at night. That should be fine, then i can refuse to sell alcohol to the patient whom i just sold vicodin too 😛
 
thephoenician88 said:
so based on this thread, by the time i graduate i should be a pharmacist in daytime and a bartender at night. That should be fine, then i can refuse to sell alcohol to the patient whom i just sold vicodin too 😛
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Or a chef!

Both cooking and bartending are similar in ways to pharmacy. 🙂
 
Ehhh back of the house is a pretty thankless job... bartenders get all the glory. lol

When I first started waitressing a few years ago I used to hide in the kitchen and listen to Lil Wayne and Outkast with the line cooks because I was scared. haha Now it gets way too hot so I usually just go back there to eat french fries. 😀
 
Tinkerbell22 said:
Ehhh back of the house is a pretty thankless job... bartenders get all the glory. lol

When I first started waitressing a few years ago I used to hide in the kitchen and listen to Lil Wayne and Outkast with the line cooks because I was scared. haha Now it gets way too hot so I usually just go back there to eat french fries. 😀
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Not a short order cook... a chef at a Zagat rated restaurant!
 
Thanks again to all who posted back...

Keep adding to this if you like 🙂

Good luck with this school year!!!!!!!!!!
 
Yeah you're def. right... a formally trained chef is a huge leap up the latter from a line cook. It's crazy how some of them can earn into the 6 figures if they work at a high end resort 😀 I worked at a Zagat rated seafood place here in Miami and another rated Japanese/Sushi restaurant in Key West and we would have people calling in to make reservations a month in advance from places like PA and NC. I worked 5 hours a night hostessing and made 20/ hour consistently... on weekdays. It was nuts. I can't imagine how much the owners/chefs pulled in those places. The place I work now is a way different concept than the usual... it mixes a sports bar, billiard room, catering/private rooms, and an international tapas cuisine. The food is actually better than some of the highly rated places I worked at (cold sesame seared tuna, filet sandwich with gorgonzola horseradish sauce, procciotto and goat cheese flat bread), but I've noticed that the beer, wine, and liquor sales pretty much double the food sales even still.

Okay well I'm going to stop now... I could go on and on about food & bev. while most people could really care less.😴
 
Tinkerbell22 said:
Okay well I'm going to stop now... I could go on and on about food & bev. while most people could really care less.😴
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I beg to differ. All work and no play makes a person dull and uninteresting past their work. And by work I mean studying science and math too much. You need an outlet, a hobby if you will, to be your release and anchor to reality. Trust me, you can get too into your classes and science and lose touch with the world around you. Now, in regards to food and wine (and beer and booze 😀 ), there are infinite possibilities that one can come up with incorporating flavors and pairing with libations. If the wine isn't the right temp or doesn't accent the flavors of the food, it won't taste right. The same goes for beer and liquor. Single malt scotch goes extremely well with dark chocolate, for example.
 
IrishRxMan said:
I beg to differ. All work and no play makes a person dull and uninteresting past their work. And by work I mean studying science and math too much. You need an outlet, a hobby if you will, to be your release and anchor to reality. Trust me, you can get too into your classes and science and lose touch with the world around you. Now, in regards to food and wine (and beer and booze 😀 ), there are infinite possibilities that one can come up with incorporating flavors and pairing with libations. If the wine isn't the right temp or doesn't accent the flavors of the food, it won't taste right. The same goes for beer and liquor. Single malt scotch goes extremely well with dark chocolate, for example.
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Ok enough talking about alcohol as my last bottle of booze is already done.:laugh:

I think I need to get some more to help me focus on studying for this PCAT.+pissed+
 
Everyone has their own preference for enjoying alcohol. Some like it paired with food and some like it alone. It doesn't make you uncultured. Lol.
 
Tinkerbell22 said:
Everyone has their own preference for enjoying alcohol. Some like it paired with food and some like it alone. It doesn't make you uncultured. Lol.
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I think wine is perfect with dinner but something like grey goose, hurricane, long island iced tea etc. goes well alone. 😀
 
This is my favorite drink recipe:

1.5oz Grey Goose
1.5oz Bacardi 151
1.0oz DeKuyper Sour Apple
1.0oz DeKuyper Island Punch, I think the name is, it's blue
.5oz Blue Curacao
.5oz Triple Sec

Shake it really well in the aluminum thingee w/ ice, then strain over ice onto a decent size glass that has preferably been chilled prior to serving. Then a splash of grenadine and fill w/ Sprite or 7-up.

It has a fruity but strong flavor, and drinks really easily despite all the alcohol. One or two and it's lights out!
 
I never felt like a heathen until my friend introduced me to the wide world of beers available to the world. When I admitted I'd never tasted a Trappist, she was shocked!

So when her friends would ask "What's your favorite beer, man?" "Oh, I'm just uncultured swine. Something in a can, probably."
 
I prefer mix drinks and girlie drinks...I don't see how anyone can drink bud light or any domestic beers...they taste so awful.
 
Oh jeez that drink sounds like it would have me carried out of where ever I was drinking it at. Lol. I used to have a very high liquor tolerance but I never drink anymore so I get intoxicated very easily. Lol. I have two beers and feel buzzed. I love beer though. I used to only like cocktails but I've aquired a taste for beer. I think it is because it goes so well with things like football and boating.
 
For the longest time, I couldn't drink beer. At all. I'd try, and get about halfway through a can before I'd be in serious danger of retching. What finally brought me into the realm of fermented happiness was Friday nights of Pizza Hut, guild Karazhan runs and Miller Lite. \o/ I'd stick 5 or 6 in a cooler with a freezer pack next to my chair, so I'd have time to crack open a new one between pulls... when you consider that most everyone else in the group was doing the same thing, it's not surprising it took us so long to clear the damn place.

These days I can/will drink most anything. Current favorites are Newcastle, Shiner Bohemian Black, and Sam Adams Blackberry Witbier.
 
type b pharmD said:
it is incredibly rare for nominal salaries to decrease in any field. it almost never happens. read up on some economics
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THE MTL said:
Since u are a pharmacy student, you should have taken an economics class. Were u paying attention in it? Salaries almost NEVER DECREASE in any field of work. New grads just wont get hired, not get paid less.

Also, if you look at the job outlook it is actually great for the coming years. Almost everyone in this forum and pre-pharmers yet to come should be good.

What everyone FAILS to realize is that Pharmacy is one of the more STABLE and SECURE job fields. And that my friend is a FACT!
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They may almost never decrease, but take a look at medical specialities such as family practice and pediatrics. You could argue that they aren't paid a "salary," but they without a doubt have experienced a drop in wages in recent times. At the very least it should be concerning considering the healthcare connection, and I wouldn't just write it off as saying it won't happen. The key is to separate yourself from the rest of the field in whatever way you see fit, whether it's specializing or just taking the time to learn something new that others can't/don't want to do.

SHC1984 said:
Okay, I will add to dental since Passion did such a good job with Law, Medicine and Pharmacy. 🙂

Dental schools have no rankings. Its the only professional school that doesn't offer any rankings. Dental rankings came out once in 1993, but it was deem worthless, so no rankings were ever used. I don't know why...and there are no reasonable explanation, except "its too subjective, and there are no real ways to really rank dental schools." etc.

The ADA did a great job on controling the amount of new dental schools popping up every year. (something that pharmacy schools should learn. 🙄) There are only 52 or 53 dental schools in the USA the last time I checked and its extremely hard to open up a new dental school, so there will be no surpluses of dentists anytime soon. (unlike pharmacy)

The name of the dental school does NOT matter at all. Especially if you are not looking into residency, again the name does NOT matter. If you are looking into residency, the name still doesn't matter that much. You have to be in the top 10% of the class to even have a chance to do a residency. And if you want ortho then you will have to be #1 in your class and have a million research publications to even get considered. 🙄

Of course there are always exceptions...I think the ONLY dental school that will give you an advantage is Harvard. They are completely P/F and there are NO class rankings. So everyone that graduates from Harvard has a great chance of getting into Ortho, b/c there are no rankings...just a NICE name! 😉 However, Harvard gets 2000+ applications a year and they only accept 35 students and interview 100. Its also the only dental school that rejected me. 🙁

Lastly, the thing about dental schools is that its too damn expensive. Either get into your state school or don't go at all.:laugh: A private school+ living expenses can cost 300k+ for 4 years. And if you attend USC, Penn, NYU, etc. it will cost you 400K+. Don't know about you but I rather buy a beach house with that 400K+ or use it as a down payment for one. :laugh:
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The reason more dental schools don't pop up I think has as much to do with how damn expensive they are to operate as it does with the ADA's control. The amount and cost of equipment and materials needed for start up is massive. And if I remember correctly, I believe it's a bit more difficult to get any kind of funding for dental schools as compared to med schools for obvious reasons.

And if you go to Harvard, you better specialize because I have heard nothing but awful things about their clinical training. It seems as if dental students are considered the "red-headed stepchildren" of Harvard Med based on everything I've read. I'm not trying to bag on Harvard dental school, but the people who I have spoken to who go there admit this much, and say that it really isn't a big deal because pretty much everyone there plans on specializing anyway. I guess that's cool but I thought the point of going to dental school was to become a competent general dentist, and was why I didn't bother applying there, so don't feel too bad.
 
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denner said:
They may almost never decrease, but take a look at medical specialities such as family practice and pediatrics. You could argue that they aren't paid a "salary," but they without a doubt have experienced a drop in wages in recent times. At the very least it should be concerning considering the healthcare connection, and I wouldn't just write it off as saying it won't happen. The key is to separate yourself from the rest of the field in whatever way you see fit, whether it's specializing or just taking the time to learn something new that others can't/don't want to do.
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Salaries are going down for most of medicine. that includes pharmacy and dental school. hardest hit will most likely be pharmacy, primary care, and perhaps dental-non cosmetic/orthodontics

someone earlier mentioned how salaries normally dont go down per year.

you're missing the point. if inflation increases 5% and your salary is increasing 2% a year, even though your salary is increasing techincally its actually going down. EVERY YEAR.

thats precisely why dentists make less money today in terms of current dollar value than they did in the 80s. They may have higher average salaries today but its not commensurate with how high inflation has been rising. add free and easy debt and people living beyond their means and you've got physicians/dentists/pharmacists suffering more than most.

the thing about medical professions unlike say engineering or business is that our salaries are mostly dictated by reimbursements...which come from the government. because there's a limited pool of money each year and because this pool of money is not rising as fast as say money in the investment and business circles it will downgrade the salaries and incomes of health care workers.

now you might disagree and say that private insurance companies are not government based...unfortunately the vast majority of reimbursements for pharmacy prescriptions/primary care doctors is from the government. in general, medical practice especially the frontline stuff-primary care, pharmacy etc. is heavily dependent on government intervention as opposed to elective based medicine.
 
pharm B said:
Does specialization pay more in pharmacy like it does in medicine? Or does a retail RPh still make more than a nuke pharmacist or psych pharmacist?
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I think most (99%) of all pharmacy jobs pay between 90K to 110K per year BEFORE taxes. However if you own your own pharmacy or if you are the CEO of pzfier or any of those "rare" jobs then your pay is going to be MUCH higher. 😉

My guess would be retail 110K per year but you will have A LOT of BS people to deal with everyday.
Hospitals, mail order, etc. will be around 90k to 100K but its a lot less BS to deal with...thats the main difference right there. LOL...
 
denner said:
The reason more dental schools don't pop up I think has as much to do with how damn expensive they are to operate as it does with the ADA's control. The amount and cost of equipment and materials needed for start up is massive. And if I remember correctly, I believe it's a bit more difficult to get any kind of funding for dental schools as compared to med schools for obvious reasons.

And if you go to Harvard, you better specialize because I have heard nothing but awful things about their clinical training. It seems as if dental students are considered the "red-headed stepchildren" of Harvard Med based on everything I've read. I'm not trying to bag on Harvard dental school, but the people who I have spoken to who go there admit this much, and say that it really isn't a big deal because pretty much everyone there plans on specializing anyway. I guess that's cool but I thought the point of going to dental school was to become a competent general dentist, and was why I didn't bother applying there, so don't feel too bad.
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I went into dentistry for Ortho and ONLY ORTHO. I rather clean toliets than become a general dentist. Too bad Harvard is the only school that can increase chances for Ortho...🙁
 
surag said:
Salaries are going down for most of medicine. that includes pharmacy and dental school. hardest hit will most likely be pharmacy, primary care, and perhaps dental-non cosmetic/orthodontics

someone earlier mentioned how salaries normally dont go down per year.

you're missing the point. if inflation increases 5% and your salary is increasing 2% a year, even though your salary is increasing techincally its actually going down. EVERY YEAR.

thats precisely why dentists make less money today in terms of current dollar value than they did in the 80s. They may have higher average salaries today but its not commensurate with how high inflation has been rising. add free and easy debt and people living beyond their means and you've got physicians/dentists/pharmacists suffering more than most.

the thing about medical professions unlike say engineering or business is that our salaries are mostly dictated by reimbursements...which come from the government. because there's a limited pool of money each year and because this pool of money is not rising as fast as say money in the investment and business circles it will downgrade the salaries and incomes of health care workers.

now you might disagree and say that private insurance companies are not government based...unfortunately the vast majority of reimbursements for pharmacy prescriptions/primary care doctors is from the government. in general, medical practice especially the frontline stuff-primary care, pharmacy etc. is heavily dependent on government intervention as opposed to elective based medicine.
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You are right for the most part about pharmacist and primary physicans being hit the hardest. However you are wrong about dentistry. Most dentist do not accept any insurance at all. My dentist only accepts CASH, orthodontists only accepts CASH...I don't even think any insurance will cover braces. Insurance don't cover any cosmetic dentistry or implants either. And like I say before most if not all dentist do NOT accept any form of insurance regardless. So dentists make MORE money than pharmacists and physicans. Hell, my orthodontist requires a 30% up FRONT payment before he will even look at your teeth! LOL...

Yes, MD get more bragging privilege and they think they are the best, but the fact is dentists make A LOT more $$$ than MD. You might not believe that, but if you do some research or ASK A MEDICAL school professor they will tell you dentistry is a million times more lucrative than medicine. Dentistry is the ONLY medical profession that DO NOT have to deal with any insurance crap, they are allow to turn down any patients they don't want to treat, dentists can do whatever they want whenever they want, they don't have to deal with any medicaid patients (luckiest part! lol). They only take cash up front . 😉
 
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SHC1984 said:
You are right for the most part about pharmacist and primary physicans being hit the hardest. However you are wrong about dentistry. Most dentist do not accept any insurance at all. My dentist only accepts CASH, orthodontists only accepts CASH...I don't even think any insurance will cover braces. Insurance don't cover any cosmetic dentistry or implants either. And like I say before most if not all dentist do NOT accept any form of insurance regardless. So dentists make MORE money than pharmacists and physicans. Hell, my orthodontist requires a 30% up FRONT payment before he will even look at your teeth! LOL...

Yes, MD get more bragging privilege and they think they are the best, but the fact is dentists make A LOT more $$$ than MD. You might not believe that, but if you do some research or ASK A MEDICAL school professor they will tell you dentistry is a million times more lucrative than medicine.
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I know you're well meaning but you're completely wrong. also please make sure you read the post before you comment. i specifically excluded orthodontistry/cosmetics....which is basically what your post was mostly about. you did however mention that basic dental services by dentists are not covered by insurance.... I dont know where you got that from but thats wrong as well. My mother recently had her teeth filled, cleand and stuff done to it, added crowns or something I have no clue, but it wasn't what a dental hygenist does...and she had it all covered by insurance.

reimbursement rates are not that high for dentists. most dentists who are part of a practice or run their own have anywhere from 50% to 70% overhead. Also, the dental programs that do make bank, that is dentsits who bring in say 300k+ usually have been in shop for a long time or work mad hard...easily 50+ hours a week. Thats a lot of dental fillings.

And please, dont mention cosmetic surgery and orthodontistry..its the most competitive specialty in dentistry and in case you didn't know, cosmetic surgery or oxomallofacial surgery is something physicians can do as well.

so yea, an orthodontist or cosmetic dental surgeon can make 400+ easily...but there are so few of them, that being one is on par with getting to say plastics in medicine and requires almost the same amount of time in school/residency.

Outside of that very very small 1% of dentists...most dentists make between 120k and 180k with a smaller percentage making good because of established business.

so no....dentists dont make waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than physicians as you put it. almost all specialists in medicine make 300k+. you'd be hardpressed to find a dentist who can match a 600k salary of a orthopaedic surgeon or neurosurgeon or ophthalmologist, ent, plastics, etc.

LoL....I dont know what it is but I really like your avatar. As a straight guy I just find that heel damn sexy. maybe I have a subconscious fetish for heels...feet? gross.
 
and since when did this turn into a dentist vs physician rant? i thought this was about pharmacy...or is it the fact that im premed that got you riled up? I dont get it.

there's really no reason for it. i wasnt really referring to income for physicians or even about doctors in general. just that salaries are trending down for non elective procedures.

seems like someone has some inferiority complex issues....
 
surag said:
I know you're well meaning but you're completely wrong. also please make sure you read the post before you comment. i specifically excluded orthodontistry/cosmetics....which is basically what your post was mostly about. you did however mention that basic dental services by dentists are not covered by insurance.... I dont know where you got that from but thats wrong as well. My mother recently had her teeth filled, cleand and stuff done to it, added crowns or something I have no clue, but it wasn't what a dental hygenist does...and she had it all covered by insurance.

reimbursement rates are not that high for dentists. most dentists who are part of a practice or run their own have anywhere from 50% to 70% overhead. Also, the dental programs that do make bank, that is dentsits who bring in say 300k+ usually have been in shop for a long time or work mad hard...easily 50+ hours a week. Thats a lot of dental fillings.

And please, dont mention cosmetic surgery and orthodontistry..its the most competitive specialty in dentistry and in case you didn't know, cosmetic surgery or oxomallofacial surgery is something physicians can do as well.

so yea, an orthodontist or cosmetic dental surgeon can make 400+ easily...but there are so few of them, that being one is on par with getting to say plastics in medicine and requires almost the same amount of time in school/residency.

Outside of that very very small 1% of dentists...most dentists make between 120k and 180k with a smaller percentage making good because of established business.

so no....dentists dont make waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than physicians as you put it. almost all specialists in medicine make 300k+. you'd be hardpressed to find a dentist who can match a 600k salary of a orthopaedic surgeon or neurosurgeon or ophthalmologist, ent, plastics, etc.

LoL....I dont know what it is but I really like your avatar. As a straight guy I just find that heel damn sexy. maybe I have a subconscious fetish for heels...feet? gross.
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:laugh:, you are obviously right on the "cons" of dentistry...thats why I DROPPED out of dental school! :laugh:

I mean general dentists make MORE than general family doctors. I don't mean specialist. I know Derm and plastic surgeons make great money, but those are like you mention before very rare and hard to come by...EVERYONE wants DERM but only 1% of MD will get Derm. 🙄 Just like everyone wants ORTHO, but only very few will get it...again thats why I dropped dental school! LOL...And yes, Oral Surgeons go to dental school for 4 years and residency for 6 years..and orthodontist go for 4 years dental school and 3 years ortho residency...

I know a few dentists that do NOT accept any insurance and yes, some do, but some do NOT. Its BY CHOICE. A dentist only accepts insurance if he WANTS to...he has no obligation by law to treat anyone, he has the right to turn anyone down. Unlike pharmacy or MD in which you have to be "Nice" to all your patients..and even treat the ones without money...🙄 I had to waive a co pay b/c the patient was on medicaid...(its call get a damn job! but anyways...) You are right some dentist do accept insurance...the reimbursement for dental insurance? I don't know...it could be really low, I have NO clue. I just know my dentist choose NOT to accept any insurance and I had dental insurance before and it only paid 50% of my procedures...but it didn't matter b/c my dentist would not take it anyways..LOL..

And you are right about dentist having to work hard and the student debt being UP the roof. If I was to graduate from Columbia dental I would have been 300K in debt. Hence why I left it...I am in pharmacy school right now and my expected debt is around 70K to 80K when I get out (I am living with family). So I like that much better. 😀

Thanks for the pic comment. I am a shoe person and collect Jimmy choo. 😉
 
surag said:
and since when did this turn into a dentist vs physician rant? i thought this was about pharmacy...or is it the fact that im premed that got you riled up? I dont get it.

there's really no reason for it. i wasnt really referring to income for physicians or even about doctors in general. just that salaries are trending down for non elective procedures.

seems like someone has some inferiority complex issues....
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haha...I have nothing against any one profession...that "rant" started with "does the name of medical school, dental school, law school and pharmacy school matter?"

The answer is YES the name of law schools matter a lot.
Yes, medical school name matters if you want the TOP residency like Derm.
NO, the name of dental school does not matter, but if you go to Harvard you will get an advantage in specializing.
and
NO the name of pharmacy schools do NOT matter right now, but it will when the surplus hits and thats very soon.
 
lol, no again...haha...well if you're talking about primary care physicians most run out of a private practice. if you have an appointment its an appointment to a private practice group. they can decide whom to accept whom not to. I know some primary care physicians dont even take insurance. it really is up to them.

perhaps you are thinking of ER doctors. emergency physicians dont get paid by reimbursements. they are paid salary and work shifts. my friend's dad works about 60 hours a week and makes 350 or so a year.

whereas private practice fam practice doctors can choose what type of patients to get since they need reimbursements.

On the whole lot, I would never ever chose not to be a doctor because of debt.

If the cost of becoming a dentist is too high then state dental schools are definitely worth the cost.

haha...in fact at most state schools including the one I'm at dental school tuition is cheaper for instate residents than pharmacy tuition...here its like 8 k a year. I'm sure you should have done something about that before attending columbia. probably apply to dental school in state and then go there.
 
SHC1984 said:
haha...I have nothing against any one profession...that "rant" started with "does the name of medical school, dental school, law school and pharmacy school matter?"

The answer is YES the name of law schools matter a lot.
Yes, medical school name matters if you want the TOP residency like Derm.
NO, the name of dental school does not matter, but if you go to Harvard you will get an advantage in specializing.
and
NO the name of pharmacy schools do NOT matter right now, but it will when the surplus hits and thats very soon.
Click to expand...

man, you really need to chill. I mean seriously...everything you've been saying so far is almost all wrong. I dont mean to be offensive(how can I when I'm replying to a sexy shoe? 😉

medical school does not matter for residency placement. people who arent familiar with the medical school structure generally dont understand how medicine works.

the rankings are not rankings in terms of the quality of the institution, the prestige you get for going there etc. almost all medical school rankings are based off one main thing: research money. Harvard is the perennial first place school because it gets a billion dollars in research money every year. JHU is a close second at about 600 million. thats it, thats all that matters.

in fact, when schools like this choose students they look for certain type...the ones who are going to do research and contribute in that fashion. sure they dont represent the ENTIRE body...but its a pretty good estimation that a lot of these students are interested in more than just clinical care, whether its going into public health or doing medical research. which is why if you look at the top 30 schools their numbers, save for a few schools, are almost all the same....because top students are going to all of them as opposed to only the top 5 or top 10.

Furthermore, getting into the most competitive residency positions has nothing to do with where you go. at my own state school(which is hardly known for its academic reputation) many students go into ENT, plastics, and even derm every year(these 3 are the most competitive).

now you can argue that to get into the best ranked residency places in the competitive programs you need to go to a top med school...this is true, only to a certain extent. your board scores and how well you do are easily number one and two in importance. and if you have high numbers you can get into any good program at any competitive specialty. its only an issue if you want to go to programs that routinely only take their own students. for example, johns hopkins almost always only takes JHU students....hence its not really open to even other top schools such as duke. Furthermore, going to a top med school doesnt make it 'easier' to get into a top residency...you still have to do really well.

thats different from law because of several reasons. 1. law does not guarantee a job after...we dont all need lawyers, but we do need doctors. 2. there are a lot of law schools and as a result a lot of lawyers. 3. the education provided by most law schools does not adequately prepare students to become lawyers. while this is true for medicine as well, law firms dont have the equivalent of a residency. so when they hire a person they need to make damn well sure he's good at what he does. since there erally isn't any other way to measure the qualtiy of a student other than his school(which is based on grades, lsats, quality of undergrad etc.) they rely on rankings.

the same does not apply for medical schools where once you get into medical school you need to work your butt off to get into competitive programs regardless of where you go. Also, medical students training is on par the same throughout the nation sans the few incompetent physicians you may have. thing is, incompetent clinical doctors/surgeons who train students are everywhere...even in the namebrand ones.

I cant speak for pharm/dental.
 
surag said:
lol, no again...haha...well if you're talking about primary care physicians most run out of a private practice. if you have an appointment its an appointment to a private practice group. they can decide whom to accept whom not to. I know some primary care physicians dont even take insurance. it really is up to them.

perhaps you are thinking of ER doctors. emergency physicians dont get paid by reimbursements. they are paid salary and work shifts. my friend's dad works about 60 hours a week and makes 350 or so a year.

whereas private practice fam practice doctors can choose what type of patients to get since they need reimbursements.

On the whole lot, I would never ever chose not to be a doctor because of debt.

If the cost of becoming a dentist is too high then state dental schools are definitely worth the cost.

haha...in fact at most state schools including the one I'm at dental school tuition is cheaper for instate residents than pharmacy tuition...here its like 8 k a year. I'm sure you should have done something about that before attending columbia. probably apply to dental school in state and then go there.
Click to expand...

I don't know a lot about MD b/c I never considered it...I took a practice Kaplan MCAT one time and made a 32..but would never consider medical school b/c blood, guts, and physical patient contact makes me sick. I don't mean to put physicans down...I think they deserve MORE pay than they get b/c they work so damn hard. Anyone that has to see/touch blood and be on call 24/7 deserve a TON of money IMO.

However, I guess my only impression of the medical profession is that its getting SCREWED over by Obama and insurance. 🙄 I have a lot of friends who are pre-med, they always complain about "how much doctor use to make and how much they make now" I have a friend that wants to be a heart surgeon and she told me herself heart surgeons use to make A TON of money, but now they make alot less...How much less? I don't know. But I am glad physicans can pick and choose patients too. Healthcare is a privilege, like buying a car.

As for dental school...when I got into Penn and Columbia I knew I wanted one of those b/c its "ivy league" lol...I didn't care about the price until I actually had to take the loans out. 😱 I never had to take a loan out in my life until Columbia. But I think Pharmacy suites me the best b/c of the clean enviroment. I want to go into the business aspects of it and hopfully get a desk job (clean job LOL)...I like that more than touching teeth, so I am glad about leaving the dental field. Even if I was handed a Ortho residency right now I am NOT sure if I will take it...I just don't like that much patient contact.
 
surag said:
man, you really need to chill. I mean seriously...everything you've been saying so far is almost all wrong. I dont mean to be offensive(how can I when I'm replying to a sexy shoe? 😉

medical school does not matter for residency placement. people who arent familiar with the medical school structure generally dont understand how medicine works.

the rankings are not rankings in terms of the quality of the institution, the prestige you get for going there etc. almost all medical school rankings are based off one main thing: research money. Harvard is the perennial first place school because it gets a billion dollars in research money every year. JHU is a close second at about 600 million. thats it, thats all that matters.

in fact, when schools like this choose students they look for certain type...the ones who are going to do research and contribute in that fashion. sure they dont represent the ENTIRE body...but its a pretty good estimation that a lot of these students are interested in more than just clinical care, whether its going into public health or doing medical research. which is why if you look at the top 30 schools their numbers, save for a few schools, are almost all the same....because top students are going to all of them as opposed to only the top 5 or top 10.

Furthermore, getting into the most competitive residency positions has nothing to do with where you go. at my own state school(which is hardly known for its academic reputation) many students go into ENT, plastics, and even derm every year(these 3 are the most competitive).

now you can argue that to get into the best ranked residency places in the competitive programs you need to go to a top med school...this is true, only to a certain extent. your board scores and how well you do are easily number one and two in importance. and if you have high numbers you can get into any good program at any competitive specialty. its only an issue if you want to go to programs that routinely only take their own students. for example, johns hopkins almost always only takes JHU students....hence its not really open to even other top schools such as duke. Furthermore, going to a top med school doesnt make it 'easier' to get into a top residency...you still have to do really well.

thats different from law because of several reasons. 1. law does not guarantee a job after...we dont all need lawyers, but we do need doctors. 2. there are a lot of law schools and as a result a lot of lawyers. 3. the education provided by most law schools does not adequately prepare students to become lawyers. while this is true for medicine as well, law firms dont have the equivalent of a residency. so when they hire a person they need to make damn well sure he's good at what he does. since there erally isn't any other way to measure the qualtiy of a student other than his school(which is based on grades, lsats, quality of undergrad etc.) they rely on rankings.

the same does not apply for medical schools where once you get into medical school you need to work your butt off to get into competitive programs regardless of where you go. Also, medical students training is on par the same throughout the nation sans the few incompetent physicians you may have. thing is, incompetent clinical doctors/surgeons who train students are everywhere...even in the namebrand ones.

I cant speak for pharm/dental.
Click to expand...

WOW long post...didn't read it all, but I was repeating what was say in this thread...those were not all my words. 🙄
 
SHC1984 said:
I don't know a lot about MD b/c I never considered it...I took a practice Kaplan MCAT one time and made a 32..but would never consider medical school b/c blood, guts, and physical patient contact makes me sick. I don't mean to put physicans down...I think they deserve MORE pay than they get b/c they work so damn hard. Anyone that has to see/touch blood and be on call 24/7 deserve a TON of money IMO.

However, I guess my only impression of the medical profession is that its getting SCREWED over by Obama and insurance. 🙄 I have a lot of friends who are pre-med, they always complain about "how much doctor use to make and how much they make now" I have a friend that wants to be a heart surgeon and she told me herself heart surgeons use to make A TON of money, but now they make alot less...How much less? I don't know. But I am glad physicans can pick and choose patients too. Healthcare is a privilege, like buying a car.

As for dental school...when I got into Penn and Columbia I knew I wanted one of those b/c its "ivy league" lol...I didn't care about the price until I actually had to take the loans out. 😱 I never had to take a loan out in my life until Columbia. But I think Pharmacy suites me the best b/c of the clean enviroment. I want to go into the business aspects of it and hopfully get a desk job (clean job LOL)...I like that more than touching teeth, so I am glad about leaving the dental field. Even if I was handed a Ortho residency right now I am NOT sure if I will take it...I just don't like that much patient contact.
Click to expand...

lol...i had such stereotypes of pharmacists and dentists...you're just playing it out so readily its ridiculous. i'm gonn take myself back to the med forum threads. lol.
 
surag said:
lol...i had such stereotypes of pharmacists and dentists...you're just playing it out so readily its ridiculous. i'm gonn take myself back to the med forum threads. lol.
Click to expand...

what do you mean by stereotype? Everything I say is the truth. And if you have that attitude of all pre-dentals/pre-pharmacys students being medical school rejects than you are the one that needs to be informed. If I wanted to I could have gotten into medical school, my stats were certainly high enough, I tried to be nice, but since you can't do anything but look down on everyone thats not pre-med then you should go back to the pre-med forum. 👎

Lastly, I find it shocking that you would find my remarks offensive...I mean I basically agreed with you that MD are very deserving and valued in society. You have a HUGE ego and I basically stroked it for you and you are mad? LOL... You are just piss off b/c I stated a fact: MD have to work hard for their money. OMG, you mean MD don't just sit and relax all day like you thought? shocker! I seriously hope for YOUR SAKE that you are NOT going into medical school b/c you think it's going to be "easy" money and no work. In fact you are the ONLY pre-medical student that has ever felt that way about medicine. You are going to be in for a huge shock when you graduate...assuming that you do that is.
 
Last edited:
SHC1984 said:
what do you mean by stereotype? Everything I say is the truth. And if you have that attitude of all pre-dentals/pre-pharmacys students being medical school rejects than you are the one that needs to be informed. If I wanted to I could have gotten into medical school, my stats were certainly high enough, I tried to be nice, but since you can't do anything but look down on everyone thats not pre-med then you should go back to the pre-med forum. 👎

Lastly, I find it shocking that you would find my remarks offensive...I mean I basically agreed with you that MD are very deserving and valued in society. You have a HUGE ego and I basically stroked it for you and you are mad? LOL... You are just piss off b/c I stated a fact: MD have to work hard for their money. OMG, you mean MD don't just sit and relax all day like you thought? shocker! I seriously hope for YOUR SAKE that you are NOT going into medical school b/c you think it's going to be "easy" money and no work. In fact you are the ONLY pre-medical student that has ever felt that way about medicine. You are going to be in for a huge shock when you graduate...assuming that you do that is.
Click to expand...

hahaha...no i left because you reinforced my impression of how pharm students behave. i dont like to judge people...but in this case I felt like airing out my feelings.

1. you made a lot of claims that up until now i felt were entirely wrong and showed you why. whether you chose to read it is up to you.

2. when you say that omg pre medders and some med students you know are upset that their salaries are going down its a ridiculous concern. i know they're going down. i mean no one wants their salary to go down, but its not something to be worried about. seriously...if i become a doctor, and i become a surgeon and i make 400 a year instead of a million im not complaining. 20 years ago a heart surgeon made 1 million. now he makes maybe 300. thats not because of heatlh care issues. thats because cardiologists took away his income. they make the big bucks now.
also, because of cardiologists, its very tough to justify spending a lot of money on setting up a thoracic unit. hence there are a lot more surgeons than lucrative positions available. if you look carefully a lot of the top programs in this country pay their heart surgeons close to a million a year.

3. you seem very, how shall i put it?, um...ditsy? air headed about these topics. now im not saying you are air headed in the purest sense...i dont know if your dumb or smart, just that you're not very well informed on these specific yet important subjects. yet you're very comfortable talking about them. i came on this thread because a lot of what was being said was simply wrong and i pointed it out....yet it went on and on so i got tired and said im getting out because i really dont want to correct every mistake you make hence my stereotyped views that pharm people dont know as much as others was correct.

4. did i already mention how often you make assumptions? i never once said i want an easy job or that as a physician it would be easy. i never indicated in any post that i was upset that doctors will have hard lives and that im jealous because of it. i know a lot of physicians who do well and dont have these issues at all but thats not even the point. you just made assumptions...which i have been shutting down time and time again.

and you cant really say im wrong about this part: everything you indicate here seems as if you want the easy life. you dont want to deal with people, you dont want to move around, you want a desk job looking at papers and writing things on them and getting paid as much as you can. i dont know but it seems like you chose pharmacy to take the easy way out...not me.

goddamnit those shoes make me think you're some hot leggy blonde and for all I know you could be a 50 year old fat b@$t@rD.

you also seem like a really nice person who's not defensive or angry. you do seem a little ignorant about topics though. just dont get mad. relax. chill. and count back from 10.....
 
Last edited:
surag said:
goddamnit those shoes make me think you're some hot leggy blonde and for all I know you could be a 50 year old fat b@$t@rD.
Click to expand...

She's actually a young hot asian with past modeling experience. She just needs to find the right MD to make her a stay at home trophy wife, lols.
 
surag said:
hahaha...no i left because you reinforced my impression of how pharm students behave. i dont like to judge people...but in this case I felt like airing out my feelings.

1. you made a lot of claims that up until now i felt were entirely wrong and showed you why. whether you chose to read it is up to you.

2. when you say that omg pre medders and some med students you know are upset that their salaries are going down its a ridiculous concern. i know they're going down. i mean no one wants their salary to go down, but its not something to be worried about. seriously...if i become a doctor, and i become a surgeon and i make 400 a year instead of a million im not complaining. 20 years ago a heart surgeon made 1 million. now he makes maybe 300. thats not because of heatlh care issues. thats because cardiologists took away his income. they make the big bucks now.
also, because of cardiologists, its very tough to justify spending a lot of money on setting up a thoracic unit. hence there are a lot more surgeons than lucrative positions available. if you look carefully a lot of the top programs in this country pay their heart surgeons close to a million a year.

3. you seem very, how shall i put it?, um...ditsy? air headed about these topics. now im not saying you are air headed in the purest sense...i dont know if your dumb or smart, just that you're not very well informed on these specific yet important subjects. yet you're very comfortable talking about them. i came on this thread because a lot of what was being said was simply wrong and i pointed it out....yet it went on and on so i got tired and said im getting out because i really dont want to correct every mistake you make hence my stereotyped views that pharm people dont know as much as others was correct.

4. did i already mention how often you make assumptions? i never once said i want an easy job or that as a physician it would be easy. i never indicated in any post that i was upset that doctors will have hard lives and that im jealous because of it. i know a lot of physicians who do well and dont have these issues at all but thats not even the point. you just made assumptions...which i have been shutting down time and time again.

and you cant really say im wrong about this part: everything you indicate here seems as if you want the easy life. you dont want to deal with people, you dont want to move around, you want a desk job looking at papers and writing things on them and getting paid as much as you can. i dont know but it seems like you chose pharmacy to take the easy way out...not me.

goddamnit those shoes make me think you're some hot leggy blonde and for all I know you could be a 50 year old fat b@$t@rD.

you also seem like a really nice person who's not defensive or angry. you do seem a little ignorant about topics though. just dont get mad. relax. chill. and count back from 10.....
Click to expand...

1) Lets see here. I claimed that general dentist make more money than general family physicans. The claim is true, although it does take a LONG time to get eshablished a lot of general dentist make very good livings. 120K a year that you stated is wrong...thats for salaried dentist...and you got that off of salary.com which only quoted reported salaries. You are the one going on and on about surgeons. I never once say anything about surgeons not making money.

2) My friend at UNC medical school wants to be a heart surgeon and she is complaining about her salary going down. Her father is a heart surgeon, he isn't happy about it either. She was hoping to make 1 million a year like her father. SO whats wrong with that statement? I think you are just pissed off b/c you were expecting a "OMG MD are the BEST!!! Everyone thats not a medical school student are medical school rejects!" 🙄 If I was to say that...the conversation would have ended with a happy face and you would have left for good. But since I didn't exactly say that you are piss off. :laugh: And please don't brag about a surgeon's salary until you are ACTUALLY the surgeon. 🙄

3) I really don't care if you think I am dumb or smart. I know my own abilities and unlike you I don't feel the need to brag on a public forum about it. I also don't feel the need to brag about specialities that I am NOT a part of as well. Lets see, " you think you are better b/c you are in medical school and medical school is harder to get into than pharmacy school." People like you are so common, especially at Columbia, so I am SOOOO use to it. Tell me something I don't know. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

4) I am not making any assumpations, so far I have only stated that general dentist make more than general physicans, YOU bragged about a surgeon's salary, I say some dentist don't take insurance which is a fact and some doctors are piss off about an decrease in salary which is also a FACT....so what wrong with my statements?

5) I think YOU are the one that needs to claim down. I type a few sentences and you type a novel in defense. 🙄


The problem here is: Your ego is too big for your own good. If you don't hear someone kissing your ass about being in Medical school you automatically put them in the "You are always wrong" category. Besides the obvious fact that medical schools are harder to get into than pharmacy schools...I am still trying to figure out where in the hell does your HUGE ego come from.
 
Last edited:
BavarianMWE46 said:
She's actually a young hot asian with past modeling experience. She just needs to find the right MD to make her a stay at home trophy wife, lols.
Click to expand...

I actually prefer business people. I dated MD while I was at Columbia and I cannot stand those huge egos.
 
BavarianMWE46 said:
She's actually a young hot asian with past modeling experience. She just needs to find the right MD to make her a stay at home trophy wife, lols.
Click to expand...

She's got a Facebook full of photos, including some w/ her holding "HI SDN" signs written on paper, so unless he's a dude with a completely falsified Facebook and had a young, hot asian hold signs for him, then she is what she says she is.

And thinking that someone would go through that much trouble just to represent himself/herself as a female on a forum is pretty silly...

Just my 6 pence.
 
Enough about me. All we need to know is that cocky ass med students that come on here to hate are just losers with NO life. Okay, now back to studying. 😎
 
NaOH said:
For the longest time, I couldn't drink beer. At all. I'd try, and get about halfway through a can before I'd be in serious danger of retching. What finally brought me into the realm of fermented happiness was Friday nights of Pizza Hut, guild Karazhan runs and Miller Lite. \o/ I'd stick 5 or 6 in a cooler with a freezer pack next to my chair, so I'd have time to crack open a new one between pulls... when you consider that most everyone else in the group was doing the same thing, it's not surprising it took us so long to clear the damn place.

These days I can/will drink most anything. Current favorites are Newcastle, Shiner Bohemian Black, and Sam Adams Blackberry Witbier.
Click to expand...


Classic!
 
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