Pharmacist Shortage Hoax?

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jman128

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This documentary would be more convincing if it was based on facts one could check rather than hearsay and other types of non-convincing arguments...

As for the pharmacy school part, it's short, based largely on hearsay information from a large city (more bound to be saturated) and doesn't provide any further information about the solo example pharmacist (for example, what was his skill set? Did he interview terribly? Is he somebody who burned all his bridges in the past, so nobody else would hire him?).

I've seen stuff from NIA before and I think they're profiting by making people scared of the future. I'm not sure how (perhaps investments in the stocks recommended or by buying precious metals, then scaring more people into buying them, thus driving up the prices, or hedging), but there's money being made somewhere. Take this with a grain of salt. There is some truth, but there's also a lot of falsity.
 
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Some degrees are definitely not worth the money invested. P4sci and others can verify that Psych degrees are just gateways to something useful, like a Masters or PhD in Psych. :smuggrin:

Hell, just look at people who pursue pharmacy tech associates degrees. Thousands of dollars later, you're still making $10-15/hr.

So this mockumentary says that the industry created a shortage hoax in 2008...

How many of you were talking about the golden opportunities of pharmacy before 2008? In 2008, I think I was already seeing "there are way too many schools!"
 
As for the pharmacy school part, it's short, based largely on hearsay information from a large city (more bound to be saturated) and doesn't provide any further information about the solo example pharmacist (for example, what was his skill set? Did he interview terribly? Is he somebody who burned all his bridges in the past, so nobody else would hire him?).

This guy had been out of work five years before deciding he wanted to re-enter the workforce.

Enough said...
 
Hah, I watched everything from the pharmacy stuff to the law stuff. I had to forward it to my wife so she could laugh.

$18/hr?? Maybe as a clerk or something. He was presumably past his prime, and perhaps the $18/hr was for consulting? Who knows, but that's crazy. Not even in rural areas would a veteran pharmacist dream of taking that job - He could've gotten a job somewhere closer to home for $18/hr. Also, I like how they turned it into a plug, "... so he could invest in gold and silver to be OK through hyper inflation." Gotta love it.

The Psychology undergraduate degree really is only useful as a gateway, that's correct. I mean, it'd make me more competitive for counseling and entry-level type stuff, but really, the money is in MSW/MFT degrees (Since those are the "insurance golden children" for mental health care). You really don't get too many opportunities w/ any social science degree though honestly, do you? Not like a Chemistry or Bio Sci degree which has relevance to an industry position. If my wife hadn't gone to law school with her English degree she'd probably be... sifting through Want Ads and being told she's over-qualified for Borders or In'n'Out? I mean, just what do you DO with an English degree that doesn't involve graduate school?

2008 is when I really started putting the rubber to the road in getting my pharmacy pre-requisites sorted out as I was prepping to ETS from the Army and I was still seeing bonuses / really nice job offers but that soon ended. I think that yeah, the "shortage hoax", if there was one, would have been better pinned on the 2005-2006 range.

Clearly, supply and demand are reaching equilibrium in every field, not just law, pharmacy, medicine or engineering. It just means smart investing (i.e., don't go to a brand new school if you don't want to risk it...) and living within your means. Something everyone should do, not just prospective professionals...
 
Seems that they just want people to invest in silver and gold.
 
$18? Wow, I wonder if truck drivers get paid around that per hour?
 
truck driver in canada makes 25$/hr with overtime u looking at 100k/year
 
I watched the entire video...

The little creditability they had, was absolutely destroyed when they showed the pharmacist story. complete and utter bull****

1. Personally, I've heard of many pharmacy students who do have job offers before graduating. Personally, not statistically speaking.
2. A veteran pharmacist moving from NY to rural Alabama for 18/hr .. Wouldn't he have been better off staying put and getting a tech job? Or any other job? I mean that doesn't even sound remotely believable.
3. They never argued the fact that prescription drugs are increasing in demand. Therefore a need for more pharmacists.

As a previous post said, it sounds like they are urging people to buy gold/silver...perhaps that company is currently selling their gold stocks :laugh:

"Preparing for hyperinflation", HA..

I do think they deserve some recognition for exposing the harm of the government giving out loans. That is a problem.
 
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$18? Wow, I wonder if truck drivers get paid around that per hour?

My dad is a trucker and would laugh at that figure either working as a company driver or an owner operator. He earns in the 100K/year range and really only works 9-10 months out of the year. :)
 
Truck driving can be pretty darn lucrative, but the quality of life stinks. I'd hate being on the road all those hours, sitting. I love to be moving and active... sitting for more than a couple hours is tough for me. Between classes I always go to a sparsely populated area and knock out a few push-ups or jog in place (vestiges from my service time, I suppose) but I am super Type-A.

You can make money doing any number of things that we don't normally associate with a lot of money. But the number of truckers making >$100K a year is most definitely less than the number of pharmacists, physicians, dentists and veterinarians making $>100K no doubt. It's not exactly a viable career plan if you really want six figs.
 
My uncle is a truck driver. It is shockingly good money. It is also harder than you might think to get into and harder to stay in than most think. It's a hard life, always being on the road.

I doubt anyone here is seriously debating between these two options anyway.:laugh:
 
My uncle is a truck driver. It is shockingly good money. It is also harder than you might think to get into and harder to stay in than most think. It's a hard life, always being on the road.

I doubt anyone here is seriously debating between these two options anyway.:laugh:

LOL, yeah, different skill sets and such there.
 
OK. The video obviously has a motive unrelated to pharmacy/pharmacy school. However, the claim that the US has a fiat currency is true. Judging from the illustrations, the video is a year or two old. But one needs only look at today's economic headlines and . . . . .

Anyway, as hokey as the video may be, and as ridiculous as it is for most anyone to leave his family and move five states away for an $18 an hour job, the makers of the video are telling a core truth. The pharmacy schools are now dumping small armies of wet-behind-the-ears pharmacists into the marketplace. There is a limit to just how many pharmacists we need . . . . at the current rate of expansion, compounded over the next 70 years, 42% of the adult population will be pharmacists. [Yes, I realize that it is really only 41.7%, but 42% sounds better.]

I guarantee by the class of 2013, that there will a sizable number of pharmacists that will end up doing something else for a living, as there simply won't be pharmacist jobs available. At the same time, a good number of pharmacists who have jobs will start to see their benefit packages trimmed, if not an outright cut in pay -- after all, there are unemployed pharmacists willing to take the job for less pay than the currently employed pharmacist in question is being paid. Mark my words, that in the midst of an inflationary time, the real wages of the average pharmacist will be going down. (And no, all of you can't be above average.)

By the year 2015, pharmacy schools will see a decided erosion in quality of applicants, as career fields with substantial unemployment aren't so attractive to top students. By the year 2020, I anticipate the average paycheck, in today's dollars, will be about $70,000. Which is fine if you have your loans paid off and house paid for, or maybe if you went to an in-state school. For those that went to private school at a cost of $30,000 a year, you will begin to wonder why on earth you paid so much for training for a job that is hard to get, and then doesn't pay the "big bucks" once you do get it.

Now, just entertain this thought for a moment. What would happen to pharmacist pay and pharmacist jobs if the lawmakers decided to create a pharmacy version of the nurse-practitioner? Where someone who is basically a tech with extra training can handle the routine stuff (as in counting pills and putting them in the bottle and handing it to the customer w/o a pharmacist there to directly supervise). Seriously, the techs basically do all that now, except the pharmacist is there to supervise (many times not too closely). Some techs are smart enough to learn drug interactions and how to counsel patients. Heck, most anyone with a college degree in chemistry (or most any other hard science), along with one year of tech work and perhaps another year of advanced practical training, could competently handle the job of a retail pharmacist. (Yes, that's essentially the equivalent to a nurse-practitioner.)

You do realize that the requirement that a full-fledged pharmacist be present when the patient is handed the medicine is solely a function of state law? If that one law were changed, we would instantly see a surplus of pharmacists this very day, no need to wait until 2013.

You also realize that if controlled substance laws were amended to allow just the non-narcotic meds to be avialable over the counter, your job would be toast. I'm smart enough to read the prescription the doctor gave me and then go hunt down the bottle on a shelf, even without 4 years of pharmacy school.

Don't laugh. Medical doctors back in 1970 couldn't imagine a day that a nurse could do a pap smear, write prescriptions, or provide a diagnosis to a patient and tell him to take two aspirin and call the next morning; all with virtually zero supervision from a "real" MD.

The law school segment that followed the pharmacy school segment is very very true -- fully 20% of law school graduates never practice law. Another 10-20% practice only a short time, and move into another vocation. There are so many law graduates there literally aren't enough paying customers to provide work for all of them. Sure, a law school education is a plus (all other things being equal), and I suppose knowing how to count pills and put them in a bottle will also be a plus when working as a computer technician, auto mechanic, or insurance salesman.
 
Here's a thought:

Assuming there are too many pharmacy schools...why not just get a job teaching for a pharmacy school?

Problem solved amiright? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Here's a thought:

Assuming there are too many pharmacy schools...why not just get a job teaching for a pharmacy school?

Problem solved amiright? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In case you are actually serious; You typically need a PhD to teach at a Pharmacy school, not a PharmD. I don't know if a PharmD would allow you to teach at a community college, let alone a Pharmacy school.
 
In case you are actually serious; You typically need a PhD to teach at a Pharmacy school, not a PharmD. I don't know if a PharmD would allow you to teach at a community college, let alone a Pharmacy school.

Yes and no. Our faculty is a mix. I wouldn't want a PhD in charge of experiential learning for example. We have several professors terminal degree is a PharmD. Of course they have experience, blah, blah, blah, but my point is that you don't need a PhD to teach at every COP.
 
In case you are actually serious; You typically need a PhD to teach at a Pharmacy school, not a PharmD. I don't know if a PharmD would allow you to teach at a community college, let alone a Pharmacy school.

There are two paths to pharmacy academia.
1. Ph.D.
2. Pharm.D, with two years of residency. Most faculty at my school have this qualification.
 
Yes and no. Our faculty is a mix. I wouldn't want a PhD in charge of experiential learning for example. We have several professors terminal degree is a PharmD. Of course they have experience, blah, blah, blah, but my point is that you don't need a PhD to teach at every COP.

That's kinda neat and surprising. If you took a class taught by a PharmD, how would you rate the efficacy of their teaching styles vs. a PhD?

I'd want to say that I'd wary of their background (in a class like medicinal chemistry or therapeutics) given that they wouldn't have nearly the same scope of experience as a PhD. Then again, I've had CC classes taught by profs with an MS who were far more competent instructors than PhD's.
 
We have a bacholer's of pharmacy teaching advanced kinetics at our school.
 
That's kinda neat and surprising. If you took a class taught by a PharmD, how would you rate the efficacy of their teaching styles vs. a PhD?

I'd want to say that I'd wary of their background (in a class like medicinal chemistry or therapeutics) given that they wouldn't have nearly the same scope of experience as a PhD. Then again, I've had CC classes taught by profs with an MS who were far more competent instructors than PhD's.

Interesting question. Our Med Chem instructor is one of the best professors we have. Over 20 years experience, holds several patents, etc. I am not sure he was ever a pharmacist, pretty sure he has some kind of PhD.

On the other hand, several of my favorite professors/faculty are not PhD holders, they just have years of experience. Their classes do seem to me to be easier overall and they often focus on practical information. When we are told we need to know something that they tell us, I believe them. When they offer insight into the profession I know we are getting it from someone who knows what they are talking about.

With the one exception of our med chem professors, I mostly prefer the PharmD holders. The PhD holders tend to be much more...what is the word? Focused on material that does not lend itself to practical knowledge? Picky? Pricky? But it's like you alluded to in the last line: it matters more about the person than their degree.

One of the worst professor we have (IMO, opinions very of course) is a recent PhD graduate. I shudder when I see we have lectures from him. :smuggrin:
 
well, it's definitely good to know that you can go into academia with your PharmD if you do a residency. Does anyone know hard it is to get one of these?
 
well, it's definitely good to know that you can go into academia with your PharmD if you do a residency. Does anyone know hard it is to get one of these?

I'm somewhat intrigued by this. I would guess that it's probably difficult to get one of these positions as one person in the thread mentioned that it required a PharmD and 2 residencies. Since residencies are more difficult to get ...

I can't imagine that PharmD's who are unable to find a job will be able to start teaching at their respective Pharmacy School or should plan on that as a back up. Besides, there are enough instructors at universities who don't want to teach that I wouldn't want for someone to think of it as a possible back up.
 
That's kinda neat and surprising. If you took a class taught by a PharmD, how would you rate the efficacy of their teaching styles vs. a PhD?

I'd want to say that I'd wary of their background (in a class like medicinal chemistry or therapeutics) given that they wouldn't have nearly the same scope of experience as a PhD. Then again, I've had CC classes taught by profs with an MS who were far more competent instructors than PhD's.

Having clinicians with pharmD's teaching clinical courses is best. PhDs haven't treated patients. No PhD should be teaching a clinical course. They are for the sciences.
 
In case you are actually serious; You typically need a PhD to teach at a Pharmacy school, not a PharmD. I don't know if a PharmD would allow you to teach at a community college, let alone a Pharmacy school.


I am very curious to know if the pharmd can be used in a community college.
 
You mean to teach?

Sure, why not?

I had a socially awkward guy with a masters in comp sci (or something like that) & a propensity towards mumbling teach a computer class I took. Fail.

Why would you seriously be considering a CC as a career choice with a PharmD? Serious enough to resurrect the zombie thread?
 
I had a socially awkward guy with a masters in comp sci (or something like that) & a propensity towards mumbling teach a computer class I took. Fail.

Why would you seriously be considering a CC as a career choice with a PharmD? Serious enough to resurrect the zombie thread?


Scared of zombies threads? Don't worry I'll try to fix that my own way :smuggrin:
 
I had a socially awkward guy with a masters in comp sci (or something like that) & a propensity towards mumbling teach a computer class I took. Fail.

Why would you seriously be considering a CC as a career choice with a PharmD? Serious enough to resurrect the zombie thread?

cushy job, good benefits, loan forgiveness, plus, teaching is fun!
 
cushy job, good benefits, loan forgiveness, plus, teaching is fun!

Huh, I suppose. From all the CC profs I've talked to, it's only cushy when you get a resident seat - when you're adjunct, you have to worry about what's going to happen next semester, and you have to play a lot of politics / work for the school a really long time to get the resident seat.
 
cushy job, good benefits, loan forgiveness, plus, teaching is fun!
Your school must be nicer than mine was. Our CC professors only make $2100 a semester for each 3-sh course they teach. Assuming you take on at least five different courses (if there's availability), that looks like it's only 15 hours a week, but then you factor in any labs, extra hours spent preparing the course, grading, exam prep, etc, all for ~21 grand a year?

Nah... ;)

Edit: that pay was for a bachelors. For doctorate-holders, it's 3 grand a semester for each 3-semester hour course you teach. Also, everyone gets $400 total a semester for each lab hour.
 
NIA is infamous for its pump and dump schemes. Beware of any "predictions" or "analysis" it gives.
 
There are two paths to pharmacy academia.
1. Ph.D.
2. Pharm.D, with two years of residency. Most faculty at my school have this qualification.

We have a few fresh PharmD's with just a one year residency behind them (some have BCPS, some don't).
 
We have a few fresh PharmD's with just a one year residency behind them (some have BCPS, some don't).

We have plenty of faculty with one year of residency or no residency at all. The ones without residency tend to have quite a bit of experience. All pharmaceutical science classes are taught by PHDs and all clinical and administrative sciences are taught by PharmD/BSPharms.
 
This is obnoxious at best. The video might as well be an infomercial for gold & silver investments.

I do agree that the market probably would have turned a much healthier curve if it would have hit rock bottom, but on the other hand it would have been a depression like no other. The federal reserve bailed out the market so that the U.S could keep its economical status. If it weren't for bail outs & reserve incentives many of the companies that are out of business today would have been out of business three years ago, not to say that they all eventually will be. The federal reserve & the government would much rather bail out several companies to keep the market healthy than allow trillions in bad paper debt to be reimbursed by the FDIC due to the falling of free market banking.

Is education over-priced? Yes. Is the american dollar fading in status, only in-compairison to major economic countries.

Not to mention they're sources are as viable as my uncle tim from buck tuck alabama.
 
Hello,

What do you mean by risking going to a new school? What are the risks of attending a new school?
 
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