Pharmacists getting hosed on Capitol Hill

[RutgersEMSOP10]

I just received this email from a Dean at RU:

Dear student pharmacists,



We have an immediate concern about the visibility of pharmacists as
healthcare professionals in light of the upcoming healthcare reform.



Some recent feedback from Capitol Hill really undervalues our profession:

1. Since nurses can coach patients to be compliant, pharmacist-provided
medication therapy management (MTM) services is unnecessary.

2. While providing MTM, pharmacists just use an algorithm. Computers
can do this just as well.

3. Pharmacists are just finding ways to get more money. Patients don’t
need help managing their medications.

These are just a few of the horrifically untrue opinions about our
profession. Couple that with the fact that pharmacists did not even receive
an invitation to a recent healthcare summit in Washington, and it is clear
that our profession is NOT receiving enough recognition. We MUST do
something to remove the stigma attached to our profession!



We cannot assume that President Obama and the federal government know that
we are the most accessible of the healthcare professionals. We are a
critical component of the healthcare team and an asset in maintaining
quality of care and decreasing costs.



I encourage all of you to visit
http://www.healthreform.gov/communityreports/comments.html. Write about how
you or someone you know has helped patients make more educated decisions
about their healthcare. Let the government know that MTM is the future of
our profession and is in the best interest of our patients. Stress the
importance of our profession in decreasing healthcare costs. Tell our
representatives in Washington about the quality of the education we receive.
We are trained to become competent clinicians, and we need to make the
government aware of that fact. It only takes a few minutes, and your time
may go a long way in gaining the recognition our profession deserves.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MountainPharmD]

So whats new? After the shafting we took with Medicare part D(isaster) nothing surprises me, especially out of Washinton.

 

[OTFuturePharmD]

Now this information is frightening. WOW! Lack of our participation could have a very negative effect for our futures and patients' healthcare.

 

[aboveliquidice]

I just received this email from a Dean at RU:

Dear student pharmacists,



We have an immediate concern about the visibility of pharmacists as
healthcare professionals in light of the upcoming healthcare reform.



Some recent feedback from Capitol Hill really undervalues our profession:

1. Since nurses can coach patients to be compliant, pharmacist-provided
medication therapy management (MTM) services is unnecessary.

2. While providing MTM, pharmacists just use an algorithm. Computers
can do this just as well.

3. Pharmacists are just finding ways to get more money. Patients don’t
need help managing their medications.

These are just a few of the horrifically untrue opinions about our
profession. Couple that with the fact that pharmacists did not even receive
an invitation to a recent healthcare summit in Washington, and it is clear
that our profession is NOT receiving enough recognition. We MUST do
something to remove the stigma attached to our profession!



We cannot assume that President Obama and the federal government know that
we are the most accessible of the healthcare professionals. We are a
critical component of the healthcare team and an asset in maintaining
quality of care and decreasing costs.



I encourage all of you to visit
http://www.healthreform.gov/communityreports/comments.html. Write about how
you or someone you know has helped patients make more educated decisions
about their healthcare. Let the government know that MTM is the future of
our profession and is in the best interest of our patients. Stress the
importance of our profession in decreasing healthcare costs. Tell our
representatives in Washington about the quality of the education we receive.
We are trained to become competent clinicians, and we need to make the
government aware of that fact. It only takes a few minutes, and your time
may go a long way in gaining the recognition our profession deserves.

I just filled it out - thanks for posting...

 

[PharmDstudent]

How can a nurse coach a patient to be complaint if they can't even tell the patient why they're supposed to be taking a medication?

Are they trying to say that nurses are good at babysitting, so they can babysit people with poor prescription adherence, too? BS!... BS, BS, BS!


Oh, and I filled out the thingie, too.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Nurses have a semester in remedial pharmacotherapy, is that not enough to manage medication outcomes?

I filled out the form. Everyone forwarding a link to their classmates would be a good idea.

 

[PharmaTope]

wow! rediculous.

this concerns me. im worried pharmacy might end up like chiropractors.. DIME DOZEN and no real role in any sort of management.

 

[PharmaTope]

btw, a round of applause for all the standup work that APhA has been doing to advance and protect pharmacists. Oh wait a minute, they haven't done jack ****!

 

[pharmaz88]

btw, a round of applause for all the standup work that APhA has been doing to advance and protect pharmacists. Oh wait a minute, they haven't done jack ****!

Exactly!!!

Let the government know that MTM is the future of
our profession and is in the best interest of our patients.

...c'mon, do these academic types really believe that this is a sustainable model upon which more than a handful of pharmacists can base their careers?

Instead of crying about their MTM pet project that they've made the sole focus of their existence, maybe these 'professional organizations' that allegedly represent us should be reminding Capitol Hill of the lives we save on a daily basis. ie - catching the pediatric Rx dosed at OD levels, catching the potentially fatal drug interaction arising from the fact that many seniors now see multiple specialists instead of just one doctor, etc. These are things that we are still uniquely positioned to do, and are of real value that any layperson can appreciate.

...of course, what do I know? I'm just a pharmacist in the trenches, not some member of APhA MTM elite.

 

[fiorio]

Hello everyone, I am a pharmacy student at Ohio State University. Actually we just started a Letter Writing Campaign regarding those three comments and our role as pharmacists not being recognize.
We would like more people to join the campaign and spread out the message.
Please visit our blog.
http://osulwc.wordpress.com/
And this is our facebook group, for anyone who care about the profession.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=185274240332

We actually made it really easy for anyone to write letters to legislators, not just President, but your local representatives, senators, governors.
We have generic sample letter, letter template, writing guide available on the blog.

I highly encourage everyone to check it out!

 

[bigpharmD]

Exactly!!!




...c'mon, do these academic types really believe that this is a sustainable model upon which more than a handful of pharmacists can base their careers?

Instead of crying about their MTM pet project that they've made the sole focus of their existence, maybe these 'professional organizations' that allegedly represent us should be reminding Capitol Hill of the lives we save on a daily basis. ie - catching the pediatric Rx dosed at OD levels, catching the potentially fatal drug interaction arising from the fact that many seniors now see multiple specialists instead of just one doctor, etc. These are things that we are still uniquely positioned to do, and are of real value that any layperson can appreciate.

...of course, what do I know? I'm just a pharmacist in the trenches, not some member of APhA MTM elite.

AGREEEEEEEE

 

[solzont]

Thanks for the news, I've completed and submitted mine. I'll try to get this word out locally in my community, we have more power if we leverage our professional and social networks to drive this.

 

[bacillus1]

Yeah this is taken from an email sent out by APhA.
What should really be done is get an organization that represents ALL pharmacists to lobby for the profession. Now we have APhA, ASHP,ASCP,AMCP, and probably any combination of 4 letters you can think of as long as it has a P in it. Plus, there's corporate execs of chains who don't want pharmacists to do MTM, since they'd have to hire more pharmacists to provide MTM.

So people, stop bashing APhA. APhA can't really be the voice of pharmacy if pharmacists don't want to be a part of this voice.

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

Thanks for the heads up, EMSOP, I have done my part and submitted my thoughts.

I urge all of you to do the same, this is an opportunity where our rants on the internet may actually bear fruit to results

 

[bacillus1]

I just did it. Tried writing it in paragraph form but it didn't come out as such when I submitted it

 

[WhiteSnows]

Time to stop opening new pharmacy school.

 

[powertoold]

Almost all of the pharmacists (not in academia) I've met don't seem to care about the direction of the profession. They just do their job and go home. They don't talk about pharmacy policy or law, ever.

Well, it's to be expected. For most pharmacists, pharmacy is just good money.

 

[medicalCPA]

Almost all of the pharmacists (not in academia) I've met don't seem to care about the direction of the profession. They just do their job and go home. They don't talk about pharmacy policy or law, ever.

Well, it's to be expected. For most pharmacists, pharmacy is just good money.

It's not only pharmacists who have this problem...it's people in general. That's why it's hard to change the status quo; most people just don't care enough.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Almost all of the pharmacists (not in academia) I've met don't seem to care about the direction of the profession. They just do their job and go home. They don't talk about pharmacy policy or law, ever.

Well, it's to be expected. For most pharmacists, pharmacy is just good money.

For the most part the pharmacists I work with are about the same. Yes, they care about their patients and work hard while on the clock but when it comes to quitting time they have no more involvement in pharmacy. I still learn a lot of great stuff from them though.

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

and it's attitude like that which leads us to the state of the profession that it is today. too many people who are too content with their six figure pay and blindly turn their back on any major issues involving their livelihood.

at least there's a group of professionals (us) that don't fall into this line of thinking

 

[slight365]

Fantastic. Another reason I'm glad I didn't go into pharmacy. It's been marginalized by everyone employed within, the employers, media, insurers, other fields of healthcare, and by the government.

The numbers don't add up to what becomes a satisfying career. On top of that, I've seen many retiring pharmacists at the end of their careers. Oof. Looks like they're just waiting to die at that point.

 

[bigpharmD]

Fantastic. Another reason I'm glad I didn't go into pharmacy. It's been marginalized by everyone employed within, the employers, media, insurers, other fields of healthcare, and by the government.

The numbers don't add up to what becomes a satisfying career. On top of that, I've seen many retiring pharmacists at the end of their careers. Oof. Looks like they're just waiting to die at that point.

And your future profession is so glorious right. Arent you going to med school in a foreign country?

 

[Charlottefromca]

Fantastic. Another reason I'm glad I didn't go into pharmacy. It's been marginalized by everyone employed within, the employers, media, insurers, other fields of healthcare, and by the government.

The numbers don't add up to what becomes a satisfying career. On top of that, I've seen many retiring pharmacists at the end of their careers. Oof. Looks like they're just waiting to die at that point.

could you expand please, I don't think being tired after working 30-40 years and looking forward to spending more time with your grandkids is entirely unique to the pharmacy career

 

[bigpharmD]

Fantastic. Another reason I'm glad I didn't go into pharmacy. It's been marginalized by everyone employed within, the employers, media, insurers, other fields of healthcare, and by the government.

The numbers don't add up to what becomes a satisfying career. On top of that, I've seen many retiring pharmacists at the end of their careers. Oof. Looks like they're just waiting to die at that point.

Also why you posting crap like this in the MD forums

Does Anyone Actually Like Practicing and Get Paid Enough?
I'm asking because if I go by this forum, it almost seems like everyone is miserable with their choice and doesn't make nearly enough money.

So does anyone actually like what they do, from hours, working conditions, and compensation?

If not, what are the fulfilling aspects? What/how much would it take to change your opinion?


Sounds to me that you are trying to justify your choice and are a little worried about it...

 

[nikkai]

Anyone got a link to the source of OP?

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

I believe it as actually in the form of an email that was sent from the dean at Rutgers

 

[slight365]

And your future profession is so glorious right. Arent you going to med school in a foreign country?

And?

 

[bigpharmD]

And?

have fun getting a residency that would even make medical school worth going to....

 

[slight365]

It actually is possible, especially when the school is ranked above such schools as Brown and Emory, along with grades, qualifications, connections, and USMLE scores.

Sorry, but connections, grades, international standing have an impact.

Sorry, big guy.

 

[bigpharmD]

It actually is possible, especially when the school is ranked above such schools as Brown and Emory, along with grades, qualifications, connections, and USMLE scores.

Sorry, but connections, grades, international standing have an impact.

Sorry, big guy.

Please show me the rankings that compare it to american schools.....you are the one trolling the pharmacy forums and stating how bad it is then looking for affirmation about med school in the md forums...meanwhile you went overseas to get an MD degree...anyway you look at it that is going to look weird to PDs....why wouldnt you just go to emory or brown and not worry about it?

 

[aboveliquidice]

Keep postings civil and on topic:

To all members of SDN - I passed this info on to my school's chapters of APhA and ASHP. ASHP had no idea what I was referring to - APha knew of it - but did not know what they could do.

Pass this info on to your respective organizations. Have each one of your members fill out the simple form - let the President's team know why they need pharmacists...

/soapbox

 

[slight365]

Actually, no. I worked in pharmacy for eight years, was convinced at one point to take the PCAT and apply by the director of my company, and then decided at the end to not do so.

I don't need affirmation about my decision. I worked in a pharmacy chain, trained pharmacists and technicians, and left knowing it was right. In fact, I feel that I worked in pharmacy five years too long.

"Trolling" is a common word used on this forum because people can't handle differing opinions. People think being called a "troll" scares others into submitting and going away, akin to animals that are fearful, but bark really loud to avoid a confrontation. No one has been scared of being called a troll or being banned since like 2003. Everyone knows there's no such thing as a ban anymore and "troll" is thrown around as much as conjunctions on these forums, so it's really lost its impact.

I got a laugh when you assumed I moved overseas to go to medical school, rather than moving here and also going to medical school. Thus, I don't worry about anything. I won't even have debt when I get out!

Then the laughable slight "twist" using the psychological stigma of saying "foreign med school", knowing many immediately think Caribbean, Eastern Europe, and assorted other places like Kazakhstan.

Additionally, it was even more funny to read your implication that to be on the list of the world's best schools, a school must be American.

I'm sure you've never heard of Zurich, Heidelberg, Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial, and many others?

 

[powertoold]

"Trolling" is a common word used on this forum because people can't handle differing opinions. People think being called a "troll" scares others into submitting and going away, akin to animals that are fearful, but bark really loud to avoid a confrontation. No one has been scared of being called a troll or being banned since like 2003. Everyone knows there's no such thing as a ban anymore and "troll" is thrown around as much as conjunctions on these forums, so it's really lost its impact.

Actually, in your first post, you were being a troll. You made harsh generalizations without any support or explanation whatsoever. Basically, you posted it just to get us riled up.

Also, no one really cares you're glad you didn't choose pharmacy. There are plenty out there who love pharmacy.

At this point, you seem overly defensive about your current path. You continue to look for stories that agree with your decision to not go into pharmacy. This isn't a bad thing, but when you have to go and criticize the profession as a whole, then you're stepping over the line.

Fantastic. Another reason I'm glad I didn't go into pharmacy. It's been marginalized by everyone employed within, the employers, media, insurers, other fields of healthcare, and by the government.

The numbers don't add up to what becomes a satisfying career. On top of that, I've seen many retiring pharmacists at the end of their careers. Oof. Looks like they're just waiting to die at that point.

 

[slight365]

Actually, in your first post, you were being a troll. You made harsh generalizations without any support or explanation whatsoever. Basically, you posted it just to get us riled up.

Also, no one really cares you're glad you didn't choose pharmacy. There are plenty out there who love pharmacy.

At this point, you seem overly defensive about your current path. You continue to look for stories that agree with your decision to not go into pharmacy.

Actually, no. I worked in pharmacy, and I'm amazed at reading idiocy like this and it makes me glad I didn't take this path. Sorry you guys are such defensive crybabies, but really, you guys can't handle differing opinions and stake who you are in this profession to the point where you defend it and call people out as trolls who are agreeing with the idiocy in such things as the OP's post.

I love the mob mentality, however. It was lost just a couple posts up that I was siding with you, in turn becoming a debate based around an inferiority complex.

I don't need to "look for stories". My friends who are long time pharmacists back home are telling me all the stories I need to know about their hours being cut, new companies taking over their chains and dictating what they do, and more and more scripts going central fill, including their own scripts going central fill by their own union's standards while the union doesn't defend labor cuts.

 

[bajunganut]

Actually, no. I worked in pharmacy, and I'm amazed at reading idiocy like this and it makes me glad I didn't take this path. Sorry you guys are such defensive crybabies, but really, you guys can't handle differing opinions and stake who you are in this profession to the point where you defend it and call people out as trolls who are agreeing with the idiocy in such things as the OP's post.

I love the mob mentality, however. It was lost just a couple posts up that I was siding with you, in turn becoming a debate based around an inferiority complex.

I don't need to "look for stories". My friends who are long time pharmacists back home are telling me all the stories I need to know about their hours being cut, new companies taking over their chains and dictating what they do, and more and more scripts going central fill, including their own scripts going central fill by their own union's standards while the union doesn't defend labor cuts.

Wow, good for you. You should change your username from slight365 to Douche Bag.

 

[Charlottefromca]

Well there is a way to present a differing opinion without coming off as a rude jerk but it is a messageboard so I'm not really surprised one bit.

What I hate about these boards sometimes is how other professions attack other professions, I would think everyone would support each other but I'm deluded of course

 

[tncekm]

Now this information is frightening. WOW! Lack of our participation could have a very negative effect for our futures and patients' healthcare.

Best of luck to ya'll. Unfortunately, we've elected a bunch of self-serving idiots to run the country, and all they're concerned about is providing "free" stuff. Quality is of no importance, so unless the public becomes scared/outraged over what healthcare reform may mean in terms of quality of available healthcare, we're probably all screwed. They'll keep doing whatever they can go make sure a person in a white coat sees a patient at the lowest possible price, not giving any mind to who the person in the white coat is, what their qualifications are, or how it will affect the patient.

 

[slight365]

Wow, good for you. You should change your username from slight365 to Douche Bag.

 

[powertoold]

Actually, no. I worked in pharmacy, and I'm amazed at reading idiocy like this and it makes me glad I didn't take this path. Sorry you guys are such defensive crybabies, but really, you guys can't handle differing opinions and stake who you are in this profession to the point where you defend it and call people out as trolls who are agreeing with the idiocy in such things as the OP's post.

lol, you are so lost.

 

[xiphoid2010]

OSU has posted the same notice.

We are organizing a letter writing campaign.

http://osulwc.wordpress.com/

There are some templates that you could use. Send e-mails and letters to your representatives to sound off.

 

[bigpharmD]

Actually, no. I worked in pharmacy for eight years, was convinced at one point to take the PCAT and apply by the director of my company, and then decided at the end to not do so.

I don't need affirmation about my decision. I worked in a pharmacy chain, trained pharmacists and technicians, and left knowing it was right. In fact, I feel that I worked in pharmacy five years too long.

"Trolling" is a common word used on this forum because people can't handle differing opinions. People think being called a "troll" scares others into submitting and going away, akin to animals that are fearful, but bark really loud to avoid a confrontation. No one has been scared of being called a troll or being banned since like 2003. Everyone knows there's no such thing as a ban anymore and "troll" is thrown around as much as conjunctions on these forums, so it's really lost its impact.

I got a laugh when you assumed I moved overseas to go to medical school, rather than moving here and also going to medical school. Thus, I don't worry about anything. I won't even have debt when I get out!

Then the laughable slight "twist" using the psychological stigma of saying "foreign med school", knowing many immediately think Caribbean, Eastern Europe, and assorted other places like Kazakhstan.

Additionally, it was even more funny to read your implication that to be on the list of the world's best schools, a school must be American.

I'm sure you've never heard of Zurich, Heidelberg, Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial, and many others?

what?.. I never said to be on the list it has to be american did I...I said show me a list that actually gives a comparison of US and foreign medical schools....to me that is impossible to do....you are the one that seems defensive about your decision....i mean i would be too if i went to overseas and have to try and come back to get a residency and compete with all these FMGs..

 

[slight365]

what?.. I never said to be on the list it has to be american did I...I said show me a list that actually gives a comparison of US and foreign medical schools....to me that is impossible to do....you are the one that seems defensive about your decision....i mean i would be too if i went to overseas and have to try and come back to get a residency and compete with all these FMGs..

Again, I didn't "go overseas to go to med school".


"Competing with all these FMG's"?

What are you, a racist?

It's also kind of bold to think my primary goal is to come back, considering I actually live here outside of my schooling. It's an option I would like to keep open.

However, being replaced by a robotic arm that counts pills in an Rx mill might not be an option you would have in the near future

 

[xiphoid2010]

Well there is a way to present a differing opinion without coming off as a rude jerk but it is a messageboard so I'm not really surprised one bit.

What I hate about these boards sometimes is how other professions attack other professions, I would think everyone would support each other but I'm deluded of course

Dissonance is not comfortable to live with, hence we are all defensive about the choices we made. However, when hiding behind the anonymity of internet, people could afford to be jerks without fear of consequences.

The attacks and counter attacks is completely futile, and only drives 2 moderates to become extremists. It's rather silly from a rational point of view. But hey, I'm just a socially inept nerd who don't even play with facebook.

 

[bigpharmD]

Again, I didn't "go overseas to go to med school".


"Competing with all these FMG's"?

What are you, a racist?

It's also kind of bold to think my primary goal is to come back, considering I actually live here outside of my schooling. It's an option I would like to keep open.

However, being replaced by a robotic arm that counts pills in an Rx mill might not be an option you would have in the near future

Actually I am employed by the dept. surgery.....

I must laugh at how you only talk about one career path in pharmacy as it is the only one...

 

[nikkai]

:troll:

 

[slight365]

But tell me, what is the problem with FMG's?

So what made you become a pharmD?

 

[tncekm]

But tell me, what is the problem with FMG's?

So what made you become a pharmD?

Man... you can't talk trash and then get upset when you get it back.

 

[slight365]

I really can't believe so many get so butt-hurt on this forum. It's typical of my experiences with pharmacists.

 

[bigpharmD]

But tell me, what is the problem with FMG's?

So what made you become a pharmD?

Nothing but the system here doesnt favor them....your odds of getting the residency you want is significantly decreased...especialy as the number of american medical residents competing for them go up...

because i love drugs....

 

[RutgersEMSOP10]

guys,

let this guy be. he didn't want to be a pharmacist, and he's not going to be. he, though, does not speak for everyone and has NO clue how we feel about it and can try to pretend he does, but that doesn't make it true.


To the issue at hand - I am very concerned. We have already seen nurses marginalize physician's in the form of NP (and various other letters that I have no clue what they mean, but I know they usually end up being the ones we have to call back because their prescriptions are wrong)...We know they have the power to do it to us as well.

I respect nurses. They do amazing and needed work. I don't respect the fact that they are trying to take over all aspects of health care. Their unions have made them the most powerful, but often least educated, health care professional (not a flame, just true).

It has already been shown time and time again that getting pharmacists involved in all aspects of medication administrationa nd utilization decrease medication related errors, morbidity and mortality. This is the reason why nurses no longer mkae IVs on the floor and have as little stock as possible in nursing stations. The fact that one would argue against this now, even with all the data, is mind boggling.

Even if you don't agree that MTM is our future, we cannot allow ourselves to be pushed to the back over and over. Our voices are important. The fact that we were not even invited is frightening.



And yes, no link, just an email from one of our deans