Pharmacy fraternities

[desklamp]

I've read a few old threads regarding pharmaceutical frats but I thought I'd try and get a refreshed opinion. Would you say these frats (not the honor ones) are worth joining? I have heard that some frats have a whole hazing/pledging process you have to go through just to join, or that some frats were primarily focused on social life.

Is this "pledging" process similar to undergraduate pledging? The whole reason I avoided that scene as an undergrad was because I didn't really feel like being put through time-consuming tests in order to be accepted into a group :/ (just a personal preference). For example, one sorority would make its pledges run laps, or endure constant ridicule about their body image because it "made their sisterly ties stronger"...or something. I assume pledging will be different in professional school?

I also read that one of the benefits to joining a pharmacy frat is that they often pass down old class notes and exams. This is similar to what I've heard about undergrad frats. Is this true?

The school website does not say much past the typical "this frat has been around for _____ years and is around to promote ___________ and _______."

It'd be great to hear your opinions 🙂. Thanks in advance!

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[RxMang]

I've read a few old threads regarding pharmaceutical frats but I thought I'd try and get a refreshed opinion. Would you say these frats (not the honor ones) are worth joining? I have heard that some frats have a whole hazing/pledging process you have to go through just to join, or that some frats were primarily focused on social life.

Is this "pledging" process similar to undergraduate pledging? The whole reason I avoided that scene as an undergrad was because I didn't really feel like being put through time-consuming tests in order to be accepted into a group :/ (just a personal preference). For example, one sorority would make its pledges run laps, or endure constant ridicule about their body image because it "made their sisterly ties stronger"...or something. I assume pledging will be different in professional school?

I also read that one of the benefits to joining a pharmacy frat is that they often pass down old class notes and exams. This is similar to what I've heard about undergrad frats. Is this true?

The school website does not say much past the typical "this frat has been around for _____ years and is around to promote ___________ and _______."

It'd be great to hear your opinions 🙂. Thanks in advance!

1st of all, there's something about it that REALLY annoys me when people say 'frat.' and i think it's because, as you've described, it gives a negative connotation against what fraternities and sororities are about.

Secondly, something you must understand is that a "pledge process" is something that is secret to each organization. Therefore, nobody can/SHOULD tell you what they do unless they are actually in it (they'd be an idiot member if they did).

honestly, hazing is everywhere. it's in sports, parents, military, etc. organizations USUALLY do things for a reason and has meaning to it. Unless it's straight up drinking alcohol or endangering someone's life, then by all means.

There are so many things that come out of greek life. networking, close friendships/bonds, community service, work opportunities, resume builder, etc.

 

[naseuy]

I've read a few old threads regarding pharmaceutical frats but I thought I'd try and get a refreshed opinion. Would you say these frats (not the honor ones) are worth joining? I have heard that some frats have a whole hazing/pledging process you have to go through just to join, or that some frats were primarily focused on social life.

Is this "pledging" process similar to undergraduate pledging? The whole reason I avoided that scene as an undergrad was because I didn't really feel like being put through time-consuming tests in order to be accepted into a group :/ (just a personal preference). For example, one sorority would make its pledges run laps, or endure constant ridicule about their body image because it "made their sisterly ties stronger"...or something. I assume pledging will be different in professional school?

I also read that one of the benefits to joining a pharmacy frat is that they often pass down old class notes and exams. This is similar to what I've heard about undergrad frats. Is this true?

The school website does not say much past the typical "this frat has been around for _____ years and is around to promote ___________ and _______."

It'd be great to hear your opinions 🙂. Thanks in advance!

In my opinion, you're better off spending that time at a part time job where you would be getting paid and earning experience.

 

[Style]

I've read a few old threads regarding pharmaceutical frats but I thought I'd try and get a refreshed opinion. Would you say these frats (not the honor ones) are worth joining? I have heard that some frats have a whole hazing/pledging process you have to go through just to join, or that some frats were primarily focused on social life.

Is this "pledging" process similar to undergraduate pledging? The whole reason I avoided that scene as an undergrad was because I didn't really feel like being put through time-consuming tests in order to be accepted into a group :/ (just a personal preference). For example, one sorority would make its pledges run laps, or endure constant ridicule about their body image because it "made their sisterly ties stronger"...or something. I assume pledging will be different in professional school?

I also read that one of the benefits to joining a pharmacy frat is that they often pass down old class notes and exams. This is similar to what I've heard about undergrad frats. Is this true?

The school website does not say much past the typical "this frat has been around for _____ years and is around to promote ___________ and _______."

It'd be great to hear your opinions 🙂. Thanks in advance!

Pledging a pharmacy frat is worth it on different levels for the work you put into it during the year/semester you pledge. Although there are some similarities between pledging for a social fraternity and a pharmaceutical fraternity, my experience has been that they are different for the most part. Each pharmaceutical fraternity has their own points they highlight. Find out what you want from a pledging process and a fraternity first. Then speak individually with members of a specific fraternity. This will give you a better idea of what fraternity better suites you. As a side note, a pharmaceutical fraternity may include guys and girls whereas traditionally a social fraternity includes only guys.

The difficulty of the pledging process depends on the fraternity; however, if one has pledged a social fraternity during undergrad, usually he or she has no trouble with the pledging process of a pharmaceutical fraternity. I feel that the difficulty of pledging a pharmaceutical fraternity is not necessarily the pledging process itself but the time commitment required of pledging on top of juggling pharmacy coursework. This is especially true for P1s who just started the pharmacy curriculum and require some time to become accustomed to the course load. Some P1s fear that pledging may require too much of their time which they feel could be better spent for studies and consequently do not pledge a pharmacy fraternity. However, pledging on top of academics is certainly manageable. If you choose to pledge a fraternity I would advise pledging during your first year of pharmacy school as this is when most of your fellow classmates will join too. If you choose to pledge during another year of pharmacy school you may not see your pledge brothers as often.

Lastly, if you are wanting to pledge a pharmaceutical fraternity because of any academic aides (ie. notes) they may or may not provide, I would not advise pledging one.

 

[IrishHammer]

I've read a few old threads regarding pharmaceutical frats but I thought I'd try and get a refreshed opinion. Would you say these frats (not the honor ones) are worth joining? I have heard that some frats have a whole hazing/pledging process you have to go through just to join, or that some frats were primarily focused on social life.

Is this "pledging" process similar to undergraduate pledging? The whole reason I avoided that scene as an undergrad was because I didn't really feel like being put through time-consuming tests in order to be accepted into a group :/ (just a personal preference). For example, one sorority would make its pledges run laps, or endure constant ridicule about their body image because it "made their sisterly ties stronger"...or something. I assume pledging will be different in professional school?

I also read that one of the benefits to joining a pharmacy frat is that they often pass down old class notes and exams. This is similar to what I've heard about undergrad frats. Is this true?

The school website does not say much past the typical "this frat has been around for _____ years and is around to promote ___________ and _______."

It'd be great to hear your opinions 🙂. Thanks in advance!

Not the honor ones, you say? So...there's no real special designation that comes with being a member, other than feeling good about yourself through groupthink and blowing a bunch of money on crappy clothing with special symbols on them? Isn't that what church is for?

Personally, I'd rather spend my time interning and building connections so I can get a job after I graduate, but hey, what the **** do I know? I'm just some "independent" who must "obviously" only hate "Greek life" because I "couldn't get into a fraternity in undergrad".

 

[IrishHammer]

1st of all, there's something about it that REALLY annoys me when people say 'frat.' and i think it's because, as you've described, it gives a negative connotation against what fraternities and sororities are about.

Secondly, something you must understand is that a "pledge process" is something that is secret to each organization. Therefore, nobody can/SHOULD tell you what they do unless they are actually in it (they'd be an idiot member if they did).

honestly, hazing is everywhere. it's in sports, parents, military, etc. organizations USUALLY do things for a reason and has meaning to it. Unless it's straight up drinking alcohol or endangering someone's life, then by all means.

There are so many things that come out of greek life. networking, close friendships/bonds, community service, work opportunities, resume builder, etc.

 

[pearljam5a1]

From what I've observed, pharmacy fraternities differ not only between each other but also between the different school chapters. I found more benefit to associating with ASP and my state's student pharmacist association than I did with the fraternities. I think they are a great way to meet your fellow classmates and build relationships, but I think they are more of a social aspect of networking than professional.

Again, my experience is only with the fraternities at my school and it truly does differ between campuses. Our ASP chapter is really strong so that may bias me. It all really depends on what you want to get out of it but from what I've seen, a fraternity is a fraternity regardless of whether or not it has an adjective in front of it.

 

[IndustryPharmD]

It is very much varied from fraternity to fraternity and chapter to chapter. One thing which is true for all - they are more professional and less focused on partying than social fraternities/sororities.

Your experience comes down entirely to what people are already in it (and who are joining with you/after you). So, if you like them a lot/have a lot in common in your outlook on life, fraternity experience, etc. So, if you like a certain bunch of people - do join. It provides an extra set of opportunities for involvement, which not only looks good on the CV but also helps develop yourself and acquire useful skills that will help you whatever you do in life. I am glad that I did.

 

[DrPepsi]

You should probably talk to people that are in those fraternities for more info. None of us will tell you about the pledging process since it's a secret BUT I will tell you that I've visited my fraternity recently (a part of a reunion thing) and things are WAAAAAAAAY different from when I was in it. There is almost no hazing and things have been toned down a lot, pharmacy fraternities are absolutely nothing like the social frats they currently have for undergrads and nothing like what professional fraternities were like say in the 70's and 80's. If pledging and hazing is what you are worried about then rest your fears, you would probably go through more torture becoming a boy scout than you would a fraternity member.

Otherwise I found them to be very useful. A lot of them organized old tests for members and the frat was a really good excuse to gather a lot of people together in a rough time aka pharmacy school . Is there drinking? Of course. Is there friendship? Of course. It really depends on what you put into it because don't forget that we're talking about PROFESSIONAL fraternities that try to advance pharmacy. Being social is just a bonus.

But that's just my opinion and for what it's worth, I'm completely anti-social frats for undergrads (as in not in pharmacy school). If it's not professional I stay away from it and I would advice my children to do the same. I rushed one my first semester of college and I just couldn't relate to the group and their purpose. I liked some of the guys but it just seemed dumb to pay a lot of dues for a fancy drinking club.

This concludes a rant by an old man.

EDIT: Pearljam is right, it really does vary from school to school. At my school I didn't even bother with ASP because they had almost no networking going on and they didn't seem interested in being social.

 

[DrPepsi]

Not the honor ones, you say? So...there's no real special designation that comes with being a member, other than feeling good about yourself through groupthink and blowing a bunch of money on crappy clothing with special symbols on them? Isn't that what church is for?

Personally, I'd rather spend my time interning and building connections so I can get a job after I graduate, but hey, what the **** do I know? I'm just some "independent" who must "obviously" only hate "Greek life" because I "couldn't get into a fraternity in undergrad".

Blowing a bunch of money? My jeans I wear around the house cost more than what I spent for member dues. I don't think you "couldn't get into a fraternity in undergrad" because of you as a person or whatever, I get the feeling that you have either had a bad experience with a fraternity or you sadly have preconceived notions that may or may not be true.

But what do I know? I guess I'm just some loser fraternity member that got his first job out of college by getting hired by a member for another chapter that I previously met before and knew what I could do as a pharmacist and as a leader in the community inside and outside of the fraternity. 🙄

 

[rxlea]

Does everyone that rushes the frat get in or are they choosy like in undergrad?

 

[DrPepsi]

Does everyone that rushes the frat get in or are they choosy like in undergrad?

It varies, the fraternity I was in let everyone that pledged join. But then again, we were all pharmacy students and weren't creeps/felons/murderers/arsonists/you know. This is probably another thing that varies from chapter to chapter.

 

[IrishHammer]

Blowing a bunch of money? My jeans I wear around the house cost more than what I spent for member dues. I don't think you "couldn't get into a fraternity in undergrad" because of you as a person or whatever, I get the feeling that you have either had a bad experience with a fraternity or you sadly have preconceived notions that may or may not be true.

I did my undergrad at a CC, so there was no Greek life. But I was never really interested anyway. Not anything against Greek life, I was just interested in an education during undergrad. I have plenty of friends, and there were other ways to network. It wasn't until I dated a sorority girl this past year that I got firsthand experience with Greek life, which unfortunately proved several stereotypes.

But what do I know? I guess I'm just some loser fraternity member that got his first job out of college by getting hired by a member for another chapter that I previously met before and knew what I could do as a pharmacist and as a leader in the community inside and outside of the fraternity. 🙄

I guess you are. Loser. But that's better than being an unemployed (or, as they like to put it, "self employed") loser who has nothing to show for his four years of college, or being a basket case who can't keep her legs closed.

I realize that not everyone who does Greek life fits the stereotypes. But I've also noticed that the people who are the most vocal about supporting it (which includes having a closet/house full of swag from their fraternity or sorority, you know you know several people like that) are the ones who, far more often than not, exemplify the stereotypes. When people get into a fight and start crying over dodgeball during Greek week...problem.

 

[IrishHammer]

Does everyone that rushes the frat get in or are they choosy like in undergrad?

I'm pretty sure that PDC chapter at Fisher let anyone join. I'm sure this is another thing that varies amongst schools and organizations.

 

[DrPepsi]

I did my undergrad at a CC, so there was no Greek life. But I was never really interested anyway. I have plenty of friends, and there are other ways to network.



I guess you are. Loser. But that's better than being an unemployed (or, as they like to put it, "self employed") loser who has nothing to show for his four years of college, or being a basket case who can't keep her legs closed.

I realize that not everyone who does Greek life fits the stereotypes. But I've also noticed that the people who are the most vocal about supporting it (which includes having a closet/house full of swag from their fraternity or sorority, you know you know several people like that) are the ones who, far more often than not, exemplify the stereotypes. When people get into a fight and start crying over dodgeball during Greek week...problem.

Oh I agree, I understand the stereotype of the fraternity member being a loser but I don't see it on the pharmacy side. I always see it on the undergrad side.

Nah the fraternity swag I have is a t-shirt that doesn't fit me anymore and the usual member pin jewelry (that I only wear at reunions). We never participated in Greek week stuff with the rest of the university, we were always separate from them which is why you never saw us at football games or any of that garbage that comes with the undergrads. We were too busy studying for that.

EDIT: On second thought, I do have a football jersey from my fraternity that we wore when Phi Delta Chi and Kappa Psi played football in front of the KE girls and the other pharmacy students interested in watching. This wasn't girly football either, I broke my nose twice in pharmacy school and it was because I got elbowed by someone trying to block me.

 

[IrishHammer]

Oh I agree, I understand the stereotype of the fraternity member being a loser but I don't see it on the pharmacy side. I always see it on the undergrad side.

Nah the fraternity swag I have is a t-shirt that doesn't fit me anymore and the usual member pin jewelry (that I only wear at reunions). We never participated in Greek week stuff with the rest of the university, we were always separate from them which is why you never saw us at football games or any of that garbage that comes with the undergrads. We were too busy studying for that.

EDIT: On second thought, I do have a football jersey from my fraternity that we wore when Phi Delta Chi and Kappa Psi played football in front of the KE girls and the other pharmacy students interested in watching. This wasn't girly football either, I broke my nose twice in pharmacy school and it was because I got elbowed by someone trying to block me.

I thought you were talking about undergrad fraternities. My mistake. Most of my venom was aimed at those.

 

[DrPepsi]

I thought you were talking about undergrad fraternities. My mistake. Most of my venom was aimed at those.

No, I share your venom when it comes to undergrad fraternities but they are nothing like professional pharmacy fraternities.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

It was blah to me. I was going to pledge, but changed my mind. The funny thing is that some people took it WAY too seriously. People that were nice to me when they thought I was going to pledge barely speak to me now. It doesn't hurt my feelings; I could care less. I just think it's funny that something like a pharmacy fraternity is that serious to you to brush people off that aren't in your fraternity. Um, okay.

Some of my friends spilled the beans and told me the rest of the pledge process (what I hadn't already seen), and it just sounded juvenile to me. I have some really close friends in pharmacy school, and I didn't have to pay $100 a semester for them. If you want to do it, go for it. I just don't think it needs to be the end all be all like some of the people at my school made it.

 

[DrPepsi]

It was blah to me. I was going to pledge, but changed my mind. The funny thing is that some people took it WAY too seriously. People that were nice to me when they thought I was going to pledge barely speak to me now. It doesn't hurt my feelings; I could care less. I just think it's funny that something like a pharmacy fraternity is that serious to you to brush people off that aren't in your fraternity. Um, okay.

Some of my friends spilled the beans and told me the rest of the pledge process (what I hadn't already seen), and it just sounded juvenile to me. I have some really close friends in pharmacy school, and I didn't have to pay $100 a semester for them. If you want to do it, go for it. I just don't think it needs to be the end all be all like some of the people at my school made it.

That's what turned me off from the social undergrad frats. After I dropped because I couldn't take their B.S. anymore they refused to look at me and if they worked somewhere that I shopped at then they would not even acknowledge me as someone they recognized. It's a shame that a pharmacy fraternity would do that to you.

 

[rxlea]

Some people never made it past middle school.

 

[IrishHammer]

Some people never made it past middle school.

Don't judge me.

 

[rxlea]

Don't judge me.

LOL Word.

 

[confettiflyer]

Wholly unrelated to the OP's question, but I hate when this conversation goes down:

Person 1: something something frat
Person 2: I'M UBER OFFENDED WHEN PEOPLE SAY FRAT. You wouldn't call your country "c*nt" would you?!?!?!?!?!?!?

yeah...don't be person 2, i hate people like that, who gives a flying monkey ****. it's a frat, and if it's a sorority, it's a group of bitches that live in a house with greek letters on it. deal with it.

(this is related to undergrad...for some reason, pharmacy frats/sororities are full of hot nerds)

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

Wholly unrelated to the OP's question, but I hate when this conversation goes down:

Person 1: something something frat
Person 2: I'M UBER OFFENDED WHEN PEOPLE SAY FRAT. You wouldn't call your country "c*nt" would you?!?!?!?!?!?!?

yeah...don't be person 2, i hate people like that, who gives a flying monkey ****. it's a frat, and if it's a sorority, it's a group of bitches that live in a house with greek letters on it. deal with it.

(this is related to undergrad...for some reason, pharmacy frats/sororities are full of hot nerds)

I never even knew people got butt hurt over the term "frat".

 

[IrishHammer]

I never even knew people got butt hurt over the term "frat".

They need something to complain about aside from their terrible GPA.

 

[confettiflyer]

They need something to complain about aside from their terrible GPA.

you have to admit though, sorority sex is fan-freakin-tastic. Sure beats trolling around the library or computer science laboratory

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

They need something to complain about aside from their terrible GPA.

Harsh.

you have to admit though, sorority sex is fan-freakin-tastic. Sure beats trolling around the library or computer science laboratory

WTH is "sorority sex"? 😕

 

[IrishHammer]

you have to admit though, sorority sex is fan-freakin-tastic. Sure beats trolling around the library or computer science laboratory

Lots of girls are great in bed. I don't need the baggage that comes with boinking a sororislut.

 

[IrishHammer]

WTH is "sorority sex"? 😕

Sex with a sorority girl. Try it sometime. It'll make you appreciate it even more when you find a girl who doesn't have raging daddy issues.

 

[RxMang]

yeah...don't be person 2, i hate people like that, who gives a flying monkey ****. it's a frat, and if it's a sorority, it's a group of bitches that live in a house with greek letters on it. deal with it.

Well here is the problem. I can safely assume that you, yourself, are not in a greek organization, correct? Therefore you (along with anyone else who's not in an organization) will NEVER EVER truly understand what it means to be in one. Many people, especially ones that are in cultural fraternities/sororities (based on personal experience), hold their letters near and dear to them. A LOT, and i do mean a lot, of effort is put into it. greek organizations do many positive things for the community that the general public fail to realize. It's not about the bitches, drinking, pay for your friends, socializing, etc etc garbage you all are saying. I do find it pretty offensive for people to generalize greek organizations like this. Not every one of them holds this stereotype that you're so willing to spew out. Before you say something like that, show a little more respect and understand, JUST like any other campus organization, we strive to develop quality and productive individuals.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

Sex with a sorority girl. Try it sometime. It'll make you appreciate it even more when you find a girl who doesn't have raging daddy issues.

I'm not a lesbian, so I think I'll pass. 😀

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

Well here is the problem. I can safely assume that you, yourself, are not in a greek organization, correct? Therefore you (along with anyone else who's not in an organization) will NEVER EVER truly understand what it means to be in one. Many people, especially ones that are in cultural fraternities/sororities (based on personal experience), hold their letters near and dear to them. A LOT, and i do mean a lot, of effort is put into it. So it's not about the bitches, drinking, pay for your friends, socializing, etc etc garbage you all are saying. I do find it pretty offensive for people to generalize greek organizations like this. Not every one of them holds this stereotype that you're so willing to spew out. Before you say something like that, show a little more respect and understand, JUST like any other campus organization, we strive to develop quality and productive individuals.

Not every organization is the same, and you may not have been addressing me directly, but I gave my feelings on my school's particular fraternity. I feel a lot of people are going off what they see personally.

I was extremely interested in joining my school's fraternity but was quickly annoyed with how things ran. It had a sort of hazing mentality to it. I guess if I were younger and not as free willed and opinionated as I am now, I probably would have just dealt with it, but I don't have time for that BS, especially considering it's supposed to be a "professional fraternity". However, it just seemed like people joining and making up for not doing one in undergrad.

To be honest, if it's something you love and have a passion for, that's great. However, I don't think you should expect others to feel it too. We all have things we enjoy and don't like. My philosophy is you do your thing, and I'll do mine. If what people are saying isn't true then brush it off and don't worry about it.

 

[RxMang]

I feel a lot of people are going off what they see personally.

To be honest, if it's something you love and have a passion for, that's great. However, I don't think you should expect others to feel it too. We all have things we enjoy and don't like. My philosophy is you do your thing, and I'll do mine. If what people are saying isn't true then brush it off and don't worry about it.

I understand where you are coming from. But can you really say the same thing about any other prejudices? i.e. racism? "Oh I hate [insert race] because they [insert negative stereotype]. I wish they'd all die." Aren't these opinions usually based on 'what they see personally'? We all know racism is wrong. That's why people, like Martin Luther King, stood up against it and educated others. My previous post was simply my strive to educate against prejudice of Greek organizations.

When you're telling people to brush it off, it allows this cycle of negativity to continue. And what does that do? it creates SDN forum responses to threads which shy people away from the positive aspects of fraternities/sororities. I'm pretty sure you get the picture of what this results in. " i'm not going to join your organization because I heard Greeks are a bunch of low GPA party animals." It's sort of the same concept with racism today. But great strides have been made because civil rights activists have broken down these cycles of negativity. I may be speaking in extremes by bringing up racism, but i'm trying to give a general perspective in response to your philosophy.

And how does any organization (or company) attract prospects to join? Definitely not doing my own thing and letting others do theirs. I only hope to change people's outlook on Greek life, and maybe some day they choose to contribute to a very rewarding part of their college experience. It's not just 'a group of bitches that live in a house with greek letters on it.'

HOWEVER, I do support the fact that fraternities/sororities are NOT for everyone.

 

[CUninja]

Lots of girls are great in bed. I don't need the baggage that comes with boinking a sororislut.

Sororislut? Never heard that one before, haha. We always used the term sorostitute.

I'm not a lesbian, so I think I'll pass. 😀

But seriously, depends on the school, it really does.

 

[pearljam5a1]

I understand where you are coming from. But can you really say the same thing about any other prejudices? i.e. racism? "Oh I hate [insert race] because they [insert negative stereotype]. I wish they'd all die." Aren't these opinions usually based on 'what they see personally'? We all know racism is wrong. That's why people, like Martin Luther King, stood up against it and educated others. My previous post was simply my strive to educate against prejudice of Greek organizations.

When you're telling people to brush it off, it allows this cycle of negativity to continue. And what does that do? it creates SDN forum responses to threads which shy people away from the positive aspects of fraternities/sororities. I'm pretty sure you get the picture of what this results in. " i'm not going to join your organization because I heard Greeks are a bunch of low GPA party animals." It's sort of the same concept with racism today. But great strides have been made because civil rights activists have broken down these cycles of negativity. I may be speaking in extremes by bringing up racism, but i'm trying to give a general perspective in response to your philosophy.

And how does any organization (or company) attract prospects to join? Definitely not doing my own thing and letting others do theirs. I only hope to change people's outlook on Greek life, and maybe some day they choose to contribute to a very rewarding part of their college experience. It's not just 'a group of bitches that live in a house with greek letters on it.'

HOWEVER, I do support the fact that fraternities/sororities are NOT for everyone.

Yeah, that may be a bad analogy. I don't think that MLK really thought about making sure doctoral students in fraternal organizations weren't being oppressed.

 

[RxMang]

Yeah, that may be a bad analogy. I don't think that MLK really thought about making sure doctoral students in fraternal organizations weren't being oppressed.

i think you're being unreasonable by making that statement. To clarify, i used racism as an example to visualize the concept of what it means to express/not express how you feel about a certain subject. You need to stand up to what you think is right or wrong, and hopefully change people's perspective on things.

 

[pearljam5a1]

i think you're being unreasonable by making that statement. To clarify, i used racism as an example to visualize the concept of what it means to express/not express how you feel about a certain subject. You need to stand up to what you think is right or wrong, and hopefully change people's perspective on things.

I understand that you feel strongly about your fraternity and fraternities in general. Unfortunately, it only takes one bad "frat" to spoil people's opinions of them and then generalize that all fraternities are the same. I for one, don't think that all fraternities are the same. Just like every organization there are "good" ones and "bad" ones.

Standing up for what you believe in is a great thing and I applaud you for that. I just don't think that the struggles of humanity can be compared to someone's generalization that all fraternities involve kegs and partying.

 

[confettiflyer]

oh don't get me wrong, i was quite greek friendly in undergrad. i just saw what the system could do to someone who didn't know how to handle it. it was almost sad, aside from the few standouts, these people fall headlong into the this exclusive social circle and never come out, and end up getting screwed after school ends. it was like watching a recreation of high school.

The actual legit greek orgs were okay, it was the underground/asian frats/sororities that were the worst. These existed in a quasi-legal loophole on campus and they hazed the **** out of their pledges.

so yeah, in the greek world, there exist your upstanding "got it together" "spokespeople" who do extoll all of the public virtues of the organization, then you have the majority of members who use it for social purposes but would have done just fine had they done something else, then you have your ****** & suckers (male and female) that make up the bottom 20%....they end up reminiscing about the old times 5-10 years after graduation after a) barely graduating with a wrecked GPA and b) working some mediocre job because they didn't have the insight to do anything else in undergrad.

When commandeered correctly, an undergrad greek org can further your own interests. When used incorrectly, it'll pwn you.

 

[desklamp]

thanks for all the insight, i had no idea the pledge process was supposed to be secret haha. people I know from fraternities and sororities always talked amongst their friends, and word always spread around, so i wondered whether hearing it all second, third-hand was even accurate.

tbh i also have an aversion to the whole undergrad greek scene but that might be because of the experiences i've had with my boyfriend's fraternity friends' circle lol. it's kind of funny actually, one of them, who was the president of a fraternity (and is a pretty cool guy) refuses to date sorority girls. i have nothing against the ideals of the greek system and the services they provide, but more that the individual personalities that the greek system tend to attract annoy me.

...also the fact that many fraternities apparently pass around old exams and homework solutions amongst themselves is kind of ethically infuriating.

but anyway, thanks to all who responded 🙂 professional fraternities sound like a good investment.

 

[b1234]

thanks for all the insight, i had no idea the pledge process was supposed to be secret haha. people I know from fraternities and sororities always talked amongst their friends, and word always spread around, so i wondered whether hearing it all second, third-hand was even accurate.

tbh i also have an aversion to the whole undergrad greek scene but that might be because of the experiences i've had with my boyfriend's fraternity friends' circle lol. it's kind of funny actually, one of them, who was the president of a fraternity (and is a pretty cool guy) refuses to date sorority girls. i have nothing against the ideals of the greek system and the services they provide, but more that the individual personalities that the greek system tend to attract annoy me.

...also the fact that many fraternities apparently pass around old exams and homework solutions amongst themselves is kind of ethically infuriating.

but anyway, thanks to all who responded 🙂 professional fraternities sound like a good investment.

In almost all cases there is nothing ethically or academically "wrong" with studying from old exams...

I understand where you are coming from. But can you really say the same thing about any other prejudices? i.e. racism? "Oh I hate [insert race] because they [insert negative stereotype]. I wish they'd all die." Aren't these opinions usually based on 'what they see personally'? We all know racism is wrong. That's why people, like Martin Luther King, stood up against it and educated others. My previous post was simply my strive to educate against prejudice of Greek organizations.

When you're telling people to brush it off, it allows this cycle of negativity to continue. And what does that do? it creates SDN forum responses to threads which shy people away from the positive aspects of fraternities/sororities. I'm pretty sure you get the picture of what this results in. " i'm not going to join your organization because I heard Greeks are a bunch of low GPA party animals." It's sort of the same concept with racism today. But great strides have been made because civil rights activists have broken down these cycles of negativity. I may be speaking in extremes by bringing up racism, but i'm trying to give a general perspective in response to your philosophy.

And how does any organization (or company) attract prospects to join? Definitely not doing my own thing and letting others do theirs. I only hope to change people's outlook on Greek life, and maybe some day they choose to contribute to a very rewarding part of their college experience. It's not just 'a group of bitches that live in a house with greek letters on it.'

HOWEVER, I do support the fact that fraternities/sororities are NOT for everyone.

Not the greatest analogy.

I think professional fraternities and (undergrad) social fraternities have different reputations. There is a reason for many of the negative views people have about social fraternities. I would argue that while there are exceptions - most undergrad social fraternities and sororities do at least come close to fitting many of the stereotypes. To change those stereotypes it would take way more than a few exceptions and people being told to try one out or see for yourself first. It would take a long and concentrated combined effort by sororities and fraternities to change their image (which IMO will never happen). A negative public image that has been around for decades takes time and effort to change. I am certain there are people out there that do not necessarily look down upon fraternities but still would never join one simply because they feel other people will look upon them negatively if they do join one.

 

[desklamp]

In almost all cases there is nothing ethically or academically "wrong" with studying from old exams...



Not the greatest analogy.

I think professional fraternities and (undergrad) social fraternities have different reputations. There is a reason for many of the negative views people have about social fraternities. I would argue that while there are exceptions - most undergrad social fraternities and sororities do at least come close to fitting many of the stereotypes. To change those stereotypes it would take way more than a few exceptions and people being told to try one out or see for yourself first. It would take a long and concentrated combined effort by sororities and fraternities to change their image (which IMO will never happen). A negative public image that has been around for decades takes time and effort to change. I am certain there are people out there that do not necessarily look down upon fraternities but still would never join one simply because they feel other people will look upon them negatively if they do join one.

it was my understanding that certain fraternities at my local university pass around homework solution manuals (and actually have a whole 'library' of solutions), which is technically cheating, no? additionally, i'm sure there are some ethical issues to studying from old exams (old being, the previous year or so) if they are from a class where the professor re-uses exams. from reading certain articles and my own experience, i know that there are professors who believe that having access to exams you are not supposed to have, is considered cheating.

 

[rxlea]

it was my understanding that certain fraternities at my local university pass around homework solution manuals (and actually have a whole 'library' of solutions), which is technically cheating, no? additionally, i'm sure there are some ethical issues to studying from old exams (old being, the previous year or so) if they are from a class where the professor re-uses exams. from reading certain articles and my own experience, i know that there are professors who believe that having access to exams you are not supposed to have, is considered cheating.

Yeah, this happened a lot in undergrad. Frats and sororities had access to all of those resources (old exams and homework sets, solutions, quizzes, LAB REPORTS, among other things).

I think in professional school (from what I have heard), studying from old exams is frowned upon (rightfully so, IMO). If P2s are giving P1s their old exams, it is an unfair advantage to those students benefitting from it. People should learn the material for themselves rather than studying from old exams. And I know what people are going to say- oh it helps you retain the information better, it is a useful learning tool, blahblah. If that was the case, why doesn't the school just send it out to everyone as some sort of study guide? But what do I know... I haven't started school yet.

 

[Farmercyst]

I have the same opinion now that I had 3 months or so ago in the last fraternity thread. Since you've already read it, here's a synopsis: My frat at my school rocks. The others, I'm not so comfortable with.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

I understand where you are coming from. But can you really say the same thing about any other prejudices? i.e. racism? "Oh I hate [insert race] because they [insert negative stereotype]. I wish they'd all die." Aren't these opinions usually based on 'what they see personally'? We all know racism is wrong. That's why people, like Martin Luther King, stood up against it and educated others. My previous post was simply my strive to educate against prejudice of Greek organizations.

When you're telling people to brush it off, it allows this cycle of negativity to continue. And what does that do? it creates SDN forum responses to threads which shy people away from the positive aspects of fraternities/sororities. I'm pretty sure you get the picture of what this results in. " i'm not going to join your organization because I heard Greeks are a bunch of low GPA party animals." It's sort of the same concept with racism today. But great strides have been made because civil rights activists have broken down these cycles of negativity. I may be speaking in extremes by bringing up racism, but i'm trying to give a general perspective in response to your philosophy.

And how does any organization (or company) attract prospects to join? Definitely not doing my own thing and letting others do theirs. I only hope to change people's outlook on Greek life, and maybe some day they choose to contribute to a very rewarding part of their college experience. It's not just 'a group of bitches that live in a house with greek letters on it.'

HOWEVER, I do support the fact that fraternities/sororities are NOT for everyone.

You comparing racism to looking down on fraternity organizations does not help your case. It's actually down right offending. That's two completely different things. Yeah it stinks to get looked down on by some people, but I'm sure a lot of people aren't even worried about what you and your fraternity is doing. You can promote it freely and if someone ask if they should join, I think it's fair to get both sides of the story on what it's like/what others have seen.

 

[DrPepsi]

I absolutely cannot stand the "social frats are not just about drinking/bitches/hoes, we also give back to the community and to charity" garbage. It's such a front for what is usually nothing more than a fancy drinking club. Pharmacy fraternities do that too but here's the difference: that's a part of what we are in the first place. I've never seen a fraternity or sorority in undergrad who was social AND claimed to be a charity frat too, it's the latter that is used to hide the bad stuff that comes out of most undergrad fraternities. Their pledge process is proof enough, when I pledged a social fraternity my freshman year the process was nothing but hazing; however, the professional pharmacy fraternities incorporated pharmacy into the pledging process (I can't be specific, it's a secret).

But I'm using generalizations of course, in no way can you expect me to speak for every single fraternity in the nation but at the same time you can't expect your local undergrad frat to be the exception.

 

[DrPepsi]

...also the fact that many fraternities apparently pass around old exams and homework solutions amongst themselves is kind of ethically infuriating.

You say that as if the professors don't know it goes on

 

[confettiflyer]

I think in professional school (from what I have heard), studying from old exams is frowned upon (rightfully so, IMO). If P2s are giving P1s their old exams, it is an unfair advantage to those students benefitting from it.

How so? If it's released, then a professor should have no expectation that it would NOT be distributed. Any material that is public/released, I would save and pass down to selected under-years. As a professor, it's your responsibility to protect the exam; if you don't, then it's your responsibility to create new questions rendering the old exams useless. Or, better yet, release the questions yourself to everyone while making new questions, removing the competitive advantage.

I had access to legit old exams (ie not stolen/illicitly obtained) in undergrad and made such material available to my friends, I don't see any problem. In fact, as a student, it would be irresponsible of you to NOT seek such material out.

 

[rxlea]

How so? If it's released, then a professor should have no expectation that it would NOT be distributed. Any material that is public/released, I would save and pass down to selected under-years. As a professor, it's your responsibility to protect the exam; if you don't, then it's your responsibility to create new questions rendering the old exams useless. Or, better yet, release the questions yourself to everyone while making new questions, removing the competitive advantage.

I had access to legit old exams (ie not stolen/illicitly obtained) in undergrad and made such material available to my friends, I don't see any problem. In fact, as a student, it would be irresponsible of you to NOT seek such material out.

Good point. I had undergrad profs not release our exams after we looked at them to see our mistakes. I suppose they would know (and not care) about it in pharm school. Seems like everyone is all about sharing, too. So if that is the case, then everyone benefits. I guess it would be equivalent to people "studying together" to get the answers.

 

[kinipela35]

...for what is usually nothing more than a fancy drinking club. Pharmacy fraternities do that too ...

I'm sure some do, but not all. Kappa Psi actually values sobriety and alcohol is prohibited at many events (at least for my chapter) and their funding is not allowed to be used for the purchase/promotion of alcohol in any way.

 

[RxMang]

You comparing racism to looking down on fraternity organizations does not help your case. It's actually down right offending. That's two completely different things. Yeah it stinks to get looked down on by some people, but I'm sure a lot of people aren't even worried about what you and your fraternity is doing. You can promote it freely and if someone ask if they should join, I think it's fair to get both sides of the story on what it's like/what others have seen.

LOLLLL WOW buddy. Can you not understand the SIMPLE...EASSSSY... concept of what i was trying to get across?
i am not correlating how bad both situations were. I was not saying we are a group of people who are in dire oppression against others. I was ONLY trying to state how people are influenced by what they see and what people tell them. which results in generalizations that ALL orgs. are like 'this and that.' Also, people should stand up for what they believe. Can't these general concepts pertain to these two that were mentioned, along with MANY others I could have made an example of. I apologize. Perhaps I should have made a more vague scenario to your comfort.