Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

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With the economy being the way it is, people may want to go for what I want to do regardless of job opportunity and money.

Education is not a guarantee for job opportunities..

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@ geekgolightly, great points and though I don't enjoy hearing other professions are having more lean times, what you said on nursing does put things in perspective as I assumed there would always be a near endless abundace of jobs for RN's. Also it is important to point out how many females are working more hours not out of choice, but necessity b/c their husbands are out of work; I can think of at least a handful of pharmacists I know that are now full time b/c their husband lost his job; and I can also think of several guys that are age 62-71 that work at least 60-80 hrs a week when they can (mostly b/c of the state of thier retirement accts), which of course takes not just one full time position but also at least one additional part time if not full time position, ultimately they will likely cut back sometime when the economy improves or they just can't do it anymore. We will only know a true benchmark of where we are in terms of jobs compared to 2-3 yrs ago when the economy is back on track; however that still does not change the present scenario, and though it is not as plentiful as in the past we should still be thankful for the opportunities we have.
 
All right, I joined just to post a response to this thread. To be frank, I'm troubled by it. However, I don't fear a surplus in the pharmacy profession, and here's why. We are in what many call the worst 'recession' since the great depression, and we are still experiencing a relative shortage in the field of pharmacy. Has the shortage waned a bit? Yes. Is this temporary? I really think so. Women who previously worked part time have picked up more hours. Older pharmacists are temporarily (they can't keep it up forever) coming out of retirement to work again because their IRA's shrunk a bit. Of course, this has caused a temporary increase in supply. The unemployment in states such as California and Michigan is significant - over 11%. Come on, guys! People will always need drugs. I live within an hour of a pharmacy school that is near the only significant city in the area. Almost all of its grads go to work in that city, and they aren't having any problems. In this recession. In this recession. IN THIS RECESSION. Am I annoyed? Honestly, yes. People here are wining about the potential for lowered salaries. I have yet to see any evidence of this. Will it happen? Perhaps. I don't think we'll be seeing 65K though. I know, I know. People will argue.

The baby boomers are coming. The baby boomers are retiring - and soon. I have read some old studies. Some from the nineties. Some from the early 00's. A lot of them have predicted surpluses. I read one that predicted a large surplus by 2005. Yup. Crazy. The supply of pharmacists isn't very well documented. Honestly, I'm gonna trust bls. And common sense. Just chill out, guys. We're in the health care industry. I use to be in HR. Trust me. Things are pretty gloomy there.

Relax!

One more thing. Pharmacy is on the brink. Pharmacists are under-utilized and they're STILL in demand. Imagine what would happen if we got even limited prescribing rights. Our demand would increase. Imagine what would happen if health care coverage expanded (impending plan...Obama...you know). Demand would increase. All of these things might happen.

Honestly, I think it's a time to be excited about pharmacy! I am! What a privelege.

All right. GTG work at my internship. :) Lucky me.

Really.

Peace.
 
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Completely anecdotal....but has anyone else noticed that more places have begun hiring again? My hospital is hiring for several new positions...more nurses that I can count, two pharm techs...a part-time RPh...

The hospital up the road, too...

...and my volume of recruiter spam has increased in the last week...

They think the economy is about to recover...might it be...could it be?
 
Noticed it in this and among other things - putting my money back in this week...here's to hoping I don't regret it.
 
Noticed it in this and among other things - putting my money back in this week...here's to hoping I don't regret it.


August 28, 2009
Bank Losses Drain Deposit Fund, F.D.I.C. Reports
By ERIC DASH
Even though financial stocks have rallied nearly 70 percent since the end of March, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation issued another grim quarterly report Thursday on the health of the nation’s banks.

The agency reported that the banking industry lost $3.7 billion in the second quarter amid a surge in bad loans made to home builders, commercial real estate developers and small and midsize businesses. Its deposit insurance fund dropped 20 percent, to $10.4 billion, its lowest level in nearly 16 years. And the number of “problem banks” increased to 416, from 305 in the first quarter, and is expected to remain high.

Indeed, federal officials warned that while the economy and financial markets were showing signs of improvement, the banking sector was unlikely to rebound soon.

“These credit problems will at least outlast the recession by a couple of quarters,” said Sheila C. Bair, the F.D.I.C. chairwoman. “Cleaning up balance sheets is a painful process that does take time, but it is absolutely necessary to the industry’s sustained profitability.”

The dismal report shows how the industry’s problems have spread. A handful of the biggest banks were among the first to suffer big losses nearly two years ago from complex mortgage assets and other securities, but have posted strong trading profits in the last two quarters.

Still, most of the nation’s 8,195 banks primarily make their money from lending to consumers and businesses. They are now facing increased pressure from soaring loan losses and higher deposit insurance costs as the F.D.I.C. seeks to shore up the industry fund.

So far, 81 banks have failed this year, including 45 in the second quarter. That, in turn, has put enormous stress on the government’s deposit insurance fund, which is supported by fees charged to the banks regulated by the F.D.I.C. Its second-quarter reserve of $10.4 billion compares with $45.2 billion a year earlier.

Most of the decline comes from money that the agency has set aside to cover the cost of bank failures, and Ms. Bair said the fund had ample resources to cover all insured depositors.

But the levels are so low that F.D.I.C. officials said Thursday that they would consider imposing a special assessment on the banks, on top of elevated insurance fees, toward the end of the third quarter. Through similar actions, it added about $9.1 billion. It also will begin to recover some money by selling the assets of banks that it seized.

Ms. Bair said that she did not anticipate having to immediately tap an emergency credit line run by the Treasury Department, although she did not rule it out. “I never say never,” she said. The F.D.I.C. quarterly report came after a similar release by the Office of Thrift Supervision on Wednesday that showed savings and loan associations eked out a $4 million profit, the first time the sector posted positive results since the fall of 2007. Still, the number of “problem thrifts” rose to 40, up from 17 a year earlier.

The savings and loan industry “is not out of the woods yet,” said John E. Bowman, the acting director of the Office of Thrift Supervision.

Federal banking regulators are bracing for hundreds of small and medium-size banks to collapse in the coming months even though the economy has shown early signs of a recovery. Banks are burdened with billions of dollars of bad loans made over the last few years and are continuing to set aside more money to cover losses. In fact, credit loss rates reached a record high in the second quarter.

Over all, banks charged off $48.9 billion, or 2.55 percent of assets, nearly twice the levels the industry reported last year.
 
My apologies for a further beat to a dead horse. So before any of you slam me with comments about using the search function, know that I have been reviewing every thread about the future of pharmacists for near of six months now.

I graduated with a 4 year university degree in management in the year 2000. Having worked for various companies in various settings and having been laid off 3 different times, I started giving serious consideration to going back to school to pursue my original interest in the sciences. Everyone says that the only recession proof industry worth pursuing right now is in health care. After alot of research I became interested in a career in pharmacy which I had vaugue considered during my first run in college.

As I'm sure you all know ever since around 2000 there was a huge shortage of pharmacists and it was made very well known. Alot of research at the time indicated that even with the addition of new schools and class sizes, this shortage was expected to continue for about 20 years which would make the job opportunities for pharmacists very good and salary offers even better. As I did not initially find any contradicting evidence of this at the time, I became very interested at the prospect of going back to school to update my pre-reqs for pharmacy school. So I found a nearby university that not only offered the pre-reqs, but also had a specific pre-pharmacy course focus through a major in chemistry. So weeks later I was accepted for admission to the school and granted financial aid.

However, over the last several months I, like many others, are starting to think that pharmacy is not as safe a bet as it once was. New pharmacy schools open every year, class sizes increase, this "recession" has stopped new pharmacies from opening, prevented older pharmacists from retirement, and has even brought some retired ones to come back into the work force. It is clear from numerous threads that major metro areas are already saturated and surrounding areas are on the way. And while the major argument to the lack of available jobs is that you simply need to look into smaller metro areas, what about the flock of people who are just starting to take pre-reqs for pharmacy school? They wont be out of school until at least 2015. What will the state of employment be then?

I've scoured the internet for projections, information, and have even spoken to pharmacy school reps on how they view the future of pharmacy. Unfortunately the response is always as expected... the pharmacy school reps give you the crap about baby boomers and increasing use of prescription drugs. They tell you the opportunities are limitless and its never too late to get started. Of course they say that, pharmacy schools love the fact that more and more people are applying. It makes no difference to them on whether or not you come out with no job prospects, only that you paid them their 120-180k or more in loans that you are expected to pay back, job or no job. Alot of recent studies are saying that pharmacy techs are being trained to take on more and more of the pharmacists tasks to reduce the need for so many of them. And as for forums like this, the recent grads warn everyone about no jobs available and to get out now. And the ones with jobs say there's always going to be opportunities because they don't even think about increasing number of new pharmacy graduates.

To be honest, I've spent months trying to convince myself that this was a good move for a new career for myself. I lined up alot of things including a near impossible budget to make it through school and now I'm having so many doubts Im thinking of pulling the plug with only a few days before I start taking my pre-reqs. I'm looking for opinion from current pharmacy students, or practicing pharmacists with insight into this issue. What are pharmacy school teachers and staff saying about this? What are you hearing from other sources? Are people who are just now starting to school for this field just kidding themselves? I just heard someone recently saying that in the next 4 years over 50 new pharmacy schools are expected to open. Have not been able to confirm that though.
Just really nervous about this recent decision Ive made and I have no desire to waste the next 6 years of my life and an unholy amount of student debt on a profession that will have nothing to offer me when I graduate. Its hard to figure out whose opinions on previous threads are just BS negativity to attempt to thwart incoming pharmcists on who is really speaking the truth. So I welcome anyone with geniune insight for comments. Thanks.
 
Honestly, the idea of a healthcare worker surplus in any field is going to be looked at as absurd when national healthcare hits. Having everyone covered one way or another is going to be the only thing that evenly splits up and reduces costs. If it doesnt happen now, it will happen in the next decade, because american families and their employers sure as hell arent going to be paying $20k-30k / year for healthcare the way it is now. When that happens, 50 million new patients/customers is going to mean another shortage for almost every type of practitioner.
 
P1 here. Yes, I believe the gravy train is over. You probably won't be seeing any more 30k bonuses or comfy jobs in big city. I believe that with the new schools opening up and more graduates being pump out, the demand is not and probably never be as high as it was in 2000.

But I would like to say that your 50 new schools number is as bogus as Obama's death panel claim. There're currently 112 schools in the country right now (give or take). TWO new pharmacy schools in Texas have been canceled because of the current economy situation and maybe because the APhA is wising up (cross my fingers and hope). Don't know about in other states, but 6 pharm. schools look like it for Texas.

I wish I can give you projection and numbers and anything that could help you. But I can't. No one knows what the future hold for health care. Nationalize healthcare may be implemented or may be put on shelf for a while. That said, we won't end up as bad as the lawyers profession that's for sure.

You're still have not take any of your prerequisites yet. The prerequisites for pharmacy school is similar to medical school, dental school, nursing, physical assistance, etc... Take them now, and keep your eyes open to see what else you would like to do. Volunteer in a hospital or a community pharmacy, see if you still like pharmacy or would like to switch to another health career.

Its a long time, at least 2 years. Who know what could happen in two years.

=D
 
P1 here. Yes, I believe the gravy train is over. You probably won't be seeing any more 30k bonuses or comfy jobs in big city. I believe that with the new schools opening up and more graduates being pump out, the demand is not and probably never be as high as it was in 2000.

But I would like to say that your 50 new schools number is as bogus as Obama's death panel claim. There're currently 112 schools in the country right now (give or take). TWO new pharmacy schools in Texas have been canceled because of the current economy situation and maybe because the APhA is wising up (cross my fingers and hope). Don't know about in other states, but 6 pharm. schools look like it for Texas.

I wish I can give you projection and numbers and anything that could help you. But I can't. No one knows what the future hold for health care. Nationalize healthcare may be implemented or may be put on shelf for a while. That said, we won't end up as bad as the lawyers profession that's for sure.

You're still have not take any of your prerequisites yet. The prerequisites for pharmacy school is similar to medical school, dental school, nursing, physical assistance, etc... Take them now, and keep your eyes open to see what else you would like to do. Volunteer in a hospital or a community pharmacy, see if you still like pharmacy or would like to switch to another health career.

Its a long time, at least 2 years. Who know what could happen in two years.

=D

There are still a few major metro areas with large bonuses at the moment .. but yeah i wouldnt count on that forever
 
There are still a few major metro areas with large bonuses at the moment .. but yeah i wouldnt count on that forever

true true true =D I saw a 15k bonuses + relocation for a hospital position in Anchorage the other day =D
 
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Don't you mean 150,000 dollar bonus? Since it's in Alaska?

Anchorage is a decent mid size city =D 250,000 pop. and growing, with amazing temperature in the summer and tons of daylight, in the summer. Get in touch with your inner self with the city's amazing nature reserve and hiking trails, camping ground, etc... everything you need to lead an active life. Anchorage is also one of the most diverse city in the country, with a large Native American population. Now if you're talking about Juneau, Fairbanks, other cities in Alaska, than yeah...

=D
 
TWO new pharmacy schools in Texas have been canceled because of the current economy situation and maybe because the APhA is wising up (cross my fingers and hope). Don't know about in other states, but 6 pharm. schools look like it for Texas.
=D

what are those? i didnt realize they were trying to make even more here
 
what are those? i didnt realize they were trying to make even more here

University of North Texas & University of Texas at Dallas

They were just in the planning phase though b4 they got canned a year and half or so ago ^^ Now UNT is planning a law school instead.

^^
 
You should definitely not pursue Pharmacy for the money.. given the political developments in health care, the advent of technology to streamline the dispensing process and the explosion of pharmacy schools in this country, the long term salary outlook isn't looking too good. With regard to politics, our countries political leaders have decided that the way to control healthcare costs is to cut reimbursement rates (through medicare and, in the future, through a public insurance program). Even if public insurance won't pass in the near term, demographically the baby boomers will comprise the majority of health care consumers in the next decade and they will all be in medicare. Medicare recipients will only continue to rise and medicare will continue to gain clout and the ability to impose downward price pressure on health care expenditure. Expect all health care workers to suffer as the burden of an aging population bankrupts medicare and the government and, in response, decreases its reimbursements to control costs. The effect will be longer hours worked and decreased salaries for all. This will also have the effect of exacerbating the shortage of many specailist physicians, as many will opt out of medicare or retire early and many more will decide the long training and mounting debt isn't worth it. Interestingly, this will have the effect of "rationing" care as there won't be enough, say, cardioligists, to care for all the heart patients and those patients in turn will be on waiting lists. In my opinion this is the white house Policy wonks' backdoor strategy to decrease medicare expenditure. Its genius, really, just simply cut the pay of the workers that generate the highest costs to the system and in the future there will be less of those workers to bill you for stuff you can't afford. But this is off topic... With regard to pharmacists, hospital reimbursement will suffer and so will clinical pharmacists salaries. Dispensing fees aren't safe either, so yeah the future is bleak (if your talking money) in health care. Now, on the positive side of things, I think the shortage of doctors (who opt not to live in poverty and work 80 hours a week) will create more clinical opportunities for residency trained pharmacists. PharmD's will take allot more of a clinical role in hospitals, maybe even realizing the illusive dream of a profession centered on medication therapy management rather than dispensing. So yeah, I think it should be interesting but at the same time I'm not betting on it. At the end of the day, I like learning this stuff and the education itself has value. If you wan't a good return on your investement, get an MBA and get yourself in an industry that the government doesn't have its grubby hands in.
 
You should definitely not pursue Pharmacy for the money.. given the political developments in health care, the advent of technology to streamline the dispensing process and the explosion of pharmacy schools in this country, the long term salary outlook isn't looking too good. With regard to politics, our countries political leaders have decided that the way to control healthcare costs is to cut reimbursement rates (through medicare and, in the future, through a public insurance program). Even if public insurance won't pass in the near term, demographically the baby boomers will comprise the majority of health care consumers in the next decade and they will all be in medicare. Medicare recipients will only continue to rise and medicare will continue to gain clout and the ability to impose downward price pressure on health care expenditure. Expect all health care workers to suffer as the burden of an aging population bankrupts medicare and the government and, in response, decreases its reimbursements to control costs. The effect will be longer hours worked and decreased salaries for all. This will also have the effect of exacerbating the shortage of many specailist physicians, as many will opt out of medicare or retire early and many more will decide the long training and mounting debt isn't worth it. Interestingly, this will have the effect of "rationing" care as there won't be enough, say, cardioligists, to care for all the heart patients and those patients in turn will be on waiting lists. In my opinion this is the white house Policy wonks' backdoor strategy to decrease medicare expenditure. Its genius, really, just simply cut the pay of the workers that generate the highest costs to the system and in the future there will be less of those workers to bill you for stuff you can't afford. But this is off topic... With regard to pharmacists, hospital reimbursement will suffer and so will clinical pharmacists salaries. Dispensing fees aren't safe either, so yeah the future is bleak (if your talking money) in health care. Now, on the positive side of things, I think the shortage of doctors (who opt not to live in poverty and work 80 hours a week) will create more clinical opportunities for residency trained pharmacists. PharmD's will take allot more of a clinical role in hospitals, maybe even realizing the illusive dream of a profession centered on medication therapy management rather than dispensing. So yeah, I think it should be interesting but at the same time I'm not betting on it. At the end of the day, I like learning this stuff and the education itself has value. If you wan't a good return on your investement, get an MBA and get yourself in an industry that the government doesn't have its grubby hands in.


lmao...
 
You know it's bad if Mikey doesn't even break the paragraph up and shoot it down line by line.

Well he would if he could get traction through the oil slick on that slope
 

Seriously Mikey... that's just D+ effort. Not even a snark to follow up the obvious LMAO/LOL. ;)


I'd break down your post Othelo, but seriously man one word for you...

PARAGRAPHS.

Just a thought.
 
There are 27 schools of pharmacy with pre-candidate or candidate status, and at least five others that plan on opening (and have hired staff) but do not have ACPE status at this time.

That makes 32. It's not fifty, but it's closer to fifty than zero.
 
There are 27 schools of pharmacy with pre-candidate or candidate status, and at least five others that plan on opening (and have hired staff) but do not have ACPE status at this time.

That makes 32. It's not fifty, but it's closer to fifty than zero.

I meant new schools opening now :p I actually included the pre-candidate schools. I thought the OP meant 50 new schools that are being plan.

The ACPE website said 116 schools right now (93 accredited, 18 Candidate, and 5 Pre-Candidate). No idea when this was updated though =D
 
My count was a smidge off- three schools got accedited this last cycle, so it's actually 24 with candidate or pre-candidate status

Drumroll please:
Appalachian, Belmont, Charleston, Chicago State, CNCP, East Tennessee State, Findlay, Harding, Hawaii-Hilo, Husson, Incarnate Word, Jefferson, Lipscomb, NEOUCOM, New England, Notre Dame-Maryland, Regis, South Carolina (hard to believe, but considered a new school by ACPE), St. John Fisher, Sullivan, Texas A&M, Touro (CA), Touro (NY), Union

There are also these schools which are ready and raring to go between now and 2012:
Cedarville, Concordia (WI), Maryland-Eastern Shore, Presbyterian, Roosevelt, Saint Joseph (CT), Western New England

Does anyone know of others that I've missed? These schools do not appear on the ACPE home page, as they have no official status at this time.
 
The University of South Carolina and Medical University of South Carolina recently merged and even though both were already accredited they still had to go through the whole process as the South Carolina College of Pharmacy. Still about the same numbers though
 
LOL... OK... I may have had a few drinks before I wrote that... I'll save the raving pontification for another venue..
 
What's up with all of the private religious schools with $30K tuition opening up? I don't trust anything that has to do with religion and money.
 
My count was a smidge off- three schools got accedited this last cycle, so it's actually 24 with candidate or pre-candidate status

Drumroll please:
Appalachian, Belmont, Charleston, Chicago State, CNCP, East Tennessee State, Findlay, Harding, Hawaii-Hilo, Husson, Incarnate Word, Jefferson, Lipscomb, NEOUCOM, New England, Notre Dame-Maryland, Regis, South Carolina (hard to believe, but considered a new school by ACPE), St. John Fisher, Sullivan, Texas A&M, Touro (CA), Touro (NY), Union

There are also these schools which are ready and raring to go between now and 2012:
Cedarville, Concordia (WI), Maryland-Eastern Shore, Presbyterian, Roosevelt, Saint Joseph (CT), Western New England

Does anyone know of others that I've missed? These schools do not appear on the ACPE home page, as they have no official status at this time.

Thanks man =D Did not know some of new schools that are opening up ^^

Well, at least these new schools won't be able to pull a Hawaii School of Pharmacy on everyone ^^

Balvarian: some religious-base schools can be very good (ex. baylor med). And many do not force their religion on the students. But yeah... 30K+ tuition? yikes, that's 120k right there before interest and living expenses.

P.S. lol this thread got merged with the "Sky is falling uber thread" =D
 
According to June 2009 meeting,

ACPE have granted pre-candidate status to 3 more schools.

1. Husson College School of Pharmacy Doctor of Pharmacy Program: precandidate status was granted. (2008-2009; 2009-2010)

2. Regis University School of Pharmacy Doctor of Pharmacy Program: precandidate status was granted. (2008-2009; 2009-2010)

3. University of New England School of Pharmacy Doctor of Pharmacy Program: precandidate status was granted. (2008-2009; 2009-2010)

College of Notre Dame of Maryland School of Pharmacy Doctor of Pharmacy Program: precandidate status was granted during Jan 2009 meeting.

Only 4 new schools for this year, it's not that bad, is it? Last year, it was 9 schools.

Ok.. but 7 schools sent in application for pre-accreditation next year. This is scary. Hopefully, they won't be all accredited next year....

Sometimes, I feel that that I am quite irrational and idealistic to continue with pharm school after knowing all these risks. But well, I think a good education is not a waste... it just costs too much.
 
According to June 2009 meeting,

ACPE have granted pre-candidate status to 3 more schools.

1. Husson College School of Pharmacy Doctor of Pharmacy Program: precandidate status was granted. (2008-2009; 2009-2010)

2. Regis University School of Pharmacy Doctor of Pharmacy Program: precandidate status was granted. (2008-2009; 2009-2010)

3. University of New England School of Pharmacy Doctor of Pharmacy Program: precandidate status was granted. (2008-2009; 2009-2010)

College of Notre Dame of Maryland School of Pharmacy Doctor of Pharmacy Program: precandidate status was granted during Jan 2009 meeting.

Only 4 new schools for this year, it's not that bad, is it? Last year, it was 9 schools.

Ok.. but 7 schools sent in application for pre-accreditation next year. This is scary. Hopefully, they won't be all accredited next year....

Sometimes, I feel that that I am quite irrational and idealistic to continue with pharm school after knowing all these risks. But well, I think a good education is not a waste... it just costs too much.

*face palm* So I was wrong, 50 new schools is a possibility...

Doesn't the ACPE see the long term effect this might have?
 
I've been hearing a lot about pharmacogenetics and personalized medicine. If this is the direction that medicine/pharmacy will be taking, then there is going to be huge implications to the practice of pharmacy, ie. interpretation of data, choosing therapy and optimal dosing... Hence, it would be reasonable to build an adequate workforce at this point to "monopolize" on this service. This is solely my opinion.
 
I've been hearing a lot about pharmacogenetics and personalized medicine. If this is the direction that medicine/pharmacy will be taking, then there is going to be huge implications to the practice of pharmacy, ie. interpretation of data, choosing therapy and optimal dosing... Hence, it would be reasonable to build an adequate workforce at this point to "monopolize" on this service. This is solely my opinion.

What...you mean the ACPE is thinking ahead??? They have forward thinking capabilities! That would actually be cool, but I don't think it's the whole story.

But your right (I think) I cannot imagine that they would INTENTIONALLY do something that would decrease the worth of their career. Assuming they ARE pharmacists. If not, then we should replace them.

I say we go with the dental school route and put a virtual halt on all accreditation for new schools (or make it prohibitively expensive). Make pharmacy very exclusive for the next few years, see what happens. Having said that, I don't think they can do that while there is a "shortage". Which in all fairness there is probably a shortage it's just much smaller than it used to be.

Also keep in mind, if people start thinking that it's hard to get more pharmacists then corporate/government will start looking for ways to make the system work WITHOUT pharmacists. Or with as few pharmacists as possible. Where as if their was a small surplus they might be able to go ok we have an untapped resource of pharmacists who are now waiters. Why don't we find a way to use them.

All these arguments probably miss the picture as it's more complicated than one person can possibly get a handle on, especially with the available information. So the key is to put your blinders on, get through pharmacy school, fight like hell to get a job/residency and be damn good at what you do. If the half-assed pharmcists that are ONLY in it for the money get screwed, then so be it. As a patient I don't want anyone but the best helping me out. If your busy buying your next bmw while you should be checking my drug interactions and your throwing me to the dogs then I don't want you to have a job. Sounds harsh but such is life.


I wonder if med. students are sweating the influx of carribian schools. How do these concepts apply to them?? Last I checked the "shortage" of physicians wasn't as bad as the pharmacists one and there are med. schools poping up all over florida and the Caribbean. In just the past few years we are looking at FSU and UCF being added. That's 8 schools for this state only! So why aren't they worried?
 
I wonder if med. students are sweating the influx of carribian schools. How do these concepts apply to them?? Last I checked the "shortage" of physicians wasn't as bad as the pharmacists one and there are med. schools poping up all over florida and the Caribbean. In just the past few years we are looking at FSU and UCF being added. That's 8 schools for this state only! So why aren't they worried?

  1. Step 1 is amazing for countering the influx of Caribbean grads.
  2. No one wants to be a family doctor anyway.

If you make the Naplex really, really hard, it would solve the surplus problem in no time.
 
Also keep in mind, if people start thinking that it's hard to get more pharmacists then corporate/government will start looking for ways to make the system work WITHOUT pharmacists. Or with as few pharmacists as possible. Where as if their was a small surplus they might be able to go ok we have an untapped resource of pharmacists who are now waiters. Why don't we find a way to use them.

I think this is a great point... If you look around the country, places with a surplus of pharmacists are typically the most progressive in their use of pharmacists within the health system. It seems like when there are extra pharmacists running around, the people managing health systems find a way to incorporate them into the medical care system, that is they find ways to make money off them by providing a clinical service cheaper than using a doctor. The opposite is true in areas where there is a shortage. When there are few pharmacists to go around, the ones that are available just end up getting pigeonholed into the traditional dispensing role. Progressive roles for pharmacists just don't get developed or gain wide acceptance.
 
^^

Interesting way to look at it. I would think with surplus labor running around, wages would go down, work conditions deteriorate, and jobs slashed further as companies try to maximize short-term profit by staffing as minimally as possible.
 
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^^

Interesting way to look at it. I would think with surplus labor running around, wages would go down, work conditions get worse as scabs replace striking workers, and companies and big wigs try to cut costs by hiring as few workers as possible, etc.

That would be true if the scope of practice for pharmacists remains unchanged. There are only so many retail pharmacists that are needed in an area. However, as retail postions become saturated more pharmacists opt to get specialized training and you have an excess of already highly qualified pharmacists in the marketplace. If I am a health system administrator in charge of clinical services I want to get the job done, eg. treat the patient, in the most cost effective manner possible. It would therefore make allot more sense for me to utilize the services of a pharmacist in a structured multidisciplinary clinics to offset the number of physicians. A pharmacist is after all a cheaper source of labor than a physician. I don't know, maybe someone with more experience could chime in... It just seems to me as I peruse the job listings across the country, the places that are infamous for having a surplus or too many pharn schools also tend to have some of coolest jobs. As far as the inevitable question of why progressive forms of pharmacy practice wouldn't develop in areas with a pharmacist shortage.. think about it, why would you create a clinical position knowing it won't get filled. Or why would you as an administrator who needs to fill dispensing jobs (which only pharmacisits can fill) set up clinical responsibilities for pharmacists (which, in most cases physicians or maybe even nurses could fill).
 
Im going to jump in, here is my 2c. It is a bad idea to get into any profession simply because there is a shortage supply/ high demand... if you are doing stupid work that isn't valuable- then you don't even deserve to get paid- don't go looking for free lunches, they won't last long, demand and supply is dynamic.
I got into this profession because I sense its a good building block for the rest of my career. Graduating from pharmacy school doesn't mean ****, you just finished school. It's just a stepping stone that opens up more learning opportunities. If you want employment and a high salary- do something special/ valuable
 
Dear ----
PharmCAS is pleased to announce the addition of our new schools for the 2009-2010 application cycle:

Husson University
Loma Linda University
University of Nebraska
Pacific University Oregon
Concordia University
Presbyterian College
D'Youville College
Duquesne University
University of Maryland-Eastern Shore
University of Connecticut

You now have the ability to apply to any of these new schools if you wish by logging into your application and going to the "Pharmacy Designations" section.

To learn more about these schools and their respective deadlines, please visit their school page in our Directory.

http://www.pharmcas.org/applicants/thedirectory.htm


Sincerely,
PharmCAS Staff


Oh boy... I dont know if this is good or bad, I get more choices to closer schools, but yeah..
 
:) Some of these schools are not actually new, they have just started using PharmCAS. UNMC has a pretty old program, they just haven't used PharmCAS in the past.

Also, I wouldn't worry about the new openings. I don't think that the AACP is going to mindlessly open new schools until there are no jobs. Here's part of my 6:30 AM logic: sure, there haven't been any new medical schools for a very VERY long time. However, there are plenty of PA programs, 142 I believe. There are many, many Nurse Practitioner programs! I've seen the figure range from 288 up to 850 (not sure if all of these are accredited, didn't have time to look).

Also, I've read and heard some anecdotes about slight surpluses in the past. However, I feel that pharmacy has evolved quite a bit since the 60's and 70's. In fact, pharmacy has evolved significantly since the early 90's, especially since the Pharm.D. has become the standard for all accredited programs in the United States. There use to be 75 programs. If all pharmacists did was dispense, this would probably be sufficient (as it used to be).

However, we now have more to offer. Again, I don't think the AACP is on a runaway train here. MTM, the baby boomers, data interpretation (I know pharmacists who are doing this), the expanding role of the clinical pharmacist, etc. Also, automation would affect the technician a lot more than the pharmacist, and it already has. Technicians have taken on more responsibilities, and no, they will not replace pharmacists. As a wise MD said to me "there is no more possibility of pharmacists being out of work than there is for MD's being out of work (please excuse my shotty paraphrase)."

So what could happen with our increase in supply? Our role will probably expand. It's not like we're in the social sciences, folks. There is a need for pharmacists, and I truly believe that there always will be. :)

Just MY 2 cents.
 
Also, as I was studying the other day, I realized that there could never be a surplus of people who wanted to study Pharmaceutical Biochemistry, Medicinal Chemistry, Pharmaceutics, and the like.

Joke! Lighten up guys!
 
Also, as I was studying the other day, I realized that there could never be a surplus of people who wanted to study Pharmaceutical Biochemistry, Medicinal Chemistry, Pharmaceutics, and the like.

Joke! Lighten up guys!
hahahaha! Ok...so maybe I'm the nerd who actually chose pharmacy because I liked medicinal chemistry/drug design but yea based on my undergrad experience there is some truth to that.
 
As do I, my friend. It can be a bit challenging, but the challenges are very rewarding. However, it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea. For me, at least, it takes a bit of time to remember all of the nuances of chemistry (assuming all categories).
 
As do I, my friend. It can be a bit challenging, but the challenges are very rewarding. However, it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea. For me, at least, it takes a bit of time to remember all of the nuances of chemistry (assuming all categories).

Right but all the little nuances are what make it so rewarding (keep in mind, in the real world you don't have to memorize EVERYTHING). It just blows my mind learning about all these enzymes that are in the body. I mean it's a miracle we can get any drugs to work the way we want. Up till now I've just done laboratory work, you can control everything in that beaker. But when you are trying to treat a disease it really take a lot of work and engineering to get the drug to be absorbed at the right place so that it can perform it's function.

I'm not sure how plentiful drug research jobs are, but that is an area I'm considering. I mean it's one of the more computer-replacement proof jobs out there for pharmDs.
 
Can anyone speak on how research position will be affected from the surplus? I'm not really interest in the retail aspect of pharmacy but the research side sounds awesome.
 
Can anyone speak on how research position will be affected from the surplus? I'm not really interest in the retail aspect of pharmacy but the research side sounds awesome.

Depends on the area and type of research. Pharma industry research has already been hit hard by the economy. Academia has too. Also, you know it's more than likely going to take more than just a pharmD alone to do research - a PhD, a couple years of residency/fellowship, are all possible paths, but a pharmD alone won't cut it for 99% of people.

Edit: nevermind, you're pre-med. Why are you even in this thread?
 
I was just curious. Although I'm pre-med I still have the ability to be interested in other health care fields. Anyways, thanks for the response.
 
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