Pharmacy Student, transferring to Med School

[gacibula]

Hello everyone!

I was referred here by a friend who had only good things to say about the forum.

Basically, here's my situation.

Currently, I am a pharmacy student in my 5th/6 year of pharmacy school. My plan is to graduate next May, receive my Pharm D, and turn right around and go into Medical school the following fall.

I graduated with a 3.9 BSPS, and will have between a 3.7 and a 3.8 cumulative after finishing up my Pharm D.

I took the MCAT for kicks after I got my BSPS. I really had no clue what was even on the thing and had 0 preparation for the thing. Managed to get a 21P.

I was kinda disappointed... but was really thrown for a loop when I saw all the passage based questions (annoying).

Needless to say, I am applying to medical school this summer and will have my application in on June 1. I am re-taking my MCAT on Jul 29, and I am currently taking a kaplan live online MCAT prep course.

I've got a lot of extra-curriculars... involvement with Air Force ROTC, office positions in a few pharmacy organizations, Research publications (Annals of Pharmacotherapy), etc.

For now I'm wondering where I stand in terms of competitiveness to med school, and would LOVE any advice anyone can give me regarding my situation/app process.

Thanks so much,
G

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[MiniMoo]

It's very difficult to say how competitive you will be without your new MCAT score. A 21, needless to say, is extremely low. Taking the exam in late July, you won't get your scores back until the end of August. Thus, your application won't even be looked at by schools until then. Considering the fact that many schools are rolling and you would still need to wait to receive and submit secondaries, this may put you at a disadvantage since your application will be somewhat late. Of course how much of a disadvantage really depends on what your MCAT ends up being as well as the strength of your ECs, etc. If you end up getting a 35 on the MCAT with a 3.7+, then being complete in August/September may not affect you as much as someone with a 3.7+ and 28 MCAT. Also, please do not under any circumstances sit for the MCAT again without feeling prepared.

Also, as a pharmacy student, I'm sure you have gotten plenty of clinical experience in different settings - both inpatient and outpatient. However, this does not negate the fact that you need clinical volunteer work as well. Most applicants have 150+ hours at the time of application, accumulated over the course of a year or so. You should also find physicians to shadow. About 50-60 hours with a couple of different specialties is typically recommended. Many schools will also want to see letters of recommendation from both your graduate and undergraduate level professors. If you don't have these aspects of your application taken care of already, I wouldn't apply this year.

 

[gacibula]

Ok, so I def. have some questions/clarification in lieu your response.

I will def. be prepared for the MCAT come July 29.

In terms of clinical inpatient/outpatient does the countless hours I've spent in the hospital not count toward medical schools? I have over 200+ hours in the hospital/community setting, and will have another 400 hrs at the end of this summer. None of these hours were necessarily volunteer... but they were without pay, and I rounded on medical teams with different doctors/pharmacists/dietitians etc.

In terms of my letters of recommendation, I have 2 letters from science professors, 1 letter from a non science professor, and 1 letter from a Dr I worked with over the past 2 summers (in a paid pharmacy internship) which accounted for about 1000 hrs total. For me... there is no difference between my undergrad and grad level professors... because the program I am in was a 0-6 program, where I was in pharmacy school since I was a freshman. I just assumed getting letters from teachers in the pharmacy school would be more beneficial than a gen chem or bio for majors teacher... who I never even really knew.

My overall clinical experience in and out of the hospital will be somewhere around 1600 hrs by the end of this July.

I would like to apply this year... for sure... do I need to do something in addition to what I have? Or will I be competitive in my current state.

G

 

[MiniMoo]

I can only speak from my experiences, but I had 1400+ hours of clinical experience from pharmacy clerkships & externships by the time I applied for medical school. I also had a year of working 40-60 hours a week as a licensed pharmacist in both community and hospital settings. Even then, I was still asked questions at the majority of my interviews about my volunteer experiences. I remember one interview, in particular, where I was directly asked: "Well you certainly have spent a lot of time with patients as a part of your schooling. What about volunteering with patients? And do you have any doctor shadowing?" Another interviewer also completely ignored my pharmacy experience and went through ALL of my volunteer hospital experiences (I'm non-traditional, so some of these spanned back 10 years) asking very specific questions about each department I worked with as a volunteer and what I learned in each. So while the experiences you've gained as a student are certainly valuable and very likely more in-depth than most typical volunteer work, I believe adcoms still like to see the altruism reflected in working with patients without being compensated in any way (ie: school credit, salary).

Your letters sound like they would be sufficient.

 

[MasonPrehealth]

I'm throwing a cold water shower on this thread... based on my own understanding of the situation and I admit I may be completely wrong because there are a lot of pieces missing.

So you are about to graduate with a PharmD and you haven't practiced or been licensed yet? If I'm wrong, let me know.

The significant issue you have is that you will be looked at as a serial student (in my opinion). Getting into pharmacy school is competitive and difficult, but you chose that profession over medicine for a reason. By skipping so soon to another health professional program without a convincing reason, you will face many questions on whether you are truly dedicated or have a real insight to appreciating the education you have, especially since you haven't applied it in a real-world setting.

Knowing that you will graduate with a PharmD, the adcoms will expect a thorough letter from your Pharmacy School DEAN (the top gun or the dean of student services... 5-6 years to complete pharmacy school????) to have your complete clinical evaluations rather than just a simple reference from a doctor you bumped into while doing your clerkships. They want a full review of all 1400 hours you did under their education because they might be thinking the reason why you are skipping to medical school is because you LACK clinical skills that would cause you to fail your licensing exams. That has to be taken care of (unless you wind up working as a pharmacist for a few years).

 

[MiniMoo]

It is quite possible to go straight from pharmacy school to medical school without having practiced as a licensed pharmacist. J Dub, a frquent poster, is one such example. However, one does need to have a convincing argument as to "Why medicine?", and the required clinical volunteering and physician shadowing (outside of just pharmacy-related clerkships & other school experiences) will help show that one is dedicated to pursuing medicine and not just jumping from one school to another.

No school has ever asked me for a dean's letter. Pretty positive one is not required. This is coming from someone who applied both during pharmacy school and after graduation from the program. Also, unlike medical schools, most pharmacy schools typically only have 1 year of clerkships. That means if the OP applies now like he intends to, he will likely not yet have finished any rotations. I'm not sure how one would make the connection that applying to medical school = failing pharmacy licensing exams due to poor clinical skills? Clerkship grades should be able to help adcom members decipher whether the OP performed well or not. I do recommend that the OP gets at least one LOR from a clerkship preceptor evaluating the OP's skills as a student and future clinician.

 

[gacibula]

I appreciate all the replies.

Just to clarify for mason, my situation is very unique to many of the students who go from a pharmacy program to a medical school.

The program I got into, put me in year 1 of pharmacy school as an 18 year old freshman in college. The reason the program was a 6 year program was because in addition to all of the required courses for pharmacy school I completed all undergraduate degree work at the same time.

In terms of my pursuit of medicine, I have always wanted to be an MD, never a pharmacist. Not that I need to sell you, but the main reason I stuck with pharmacy school was because I got into pharmacy school as a freshman, and figured it would be a bit more interesting than biology, chemistry, or engineering... which it def. was. I was going to stop after 4 yrs as a pharmacy student and apply with my BSPS, but instead decided "What's another 2 years and a doctorate?" and decided to just finish out my pharmacy degree.

As mason pointed out, I am entering my 6th year of pharmacy school, and applying to medical school without the completion of a clerkship yet. My letters are extremely strong and are written by professors who are well known throughout the medical community.

You have definitely given me some insight on how I could word my personal letter a bit better though, and will be sure to address some of the certain issues accordingly, without blatantly stating "I really want to be a doctor!"

 

[Catalystik]

No school has ever asked me for a dean's letter. Pretty positive one is not required. This is coming from someone who applied both during pharmacy school and after graduation from the program.

This may be region or school dependent, but my experience in my part of the country is that those in a grad-level program are generally asked to provide a letter from their program advisor/dean as one of their LORs. I think part of the purpose is to ensure that the program is aware of the student's plans and to reassure that the student is on track to complete the program in the required time.

 

[MiniMoo]

This may be region or school dependent, but my experience in my part of the country is that those in a grad-level program are generally asked to provide a letter from their program advisor/dean as one of their LORs. I think part of the purpose is to ensure that the program is aware of the student's plans and to reassure that the student is on track to complete the program in the required time.

OP, it would be a good idea to look into this then. I would contact each school that you're looking to apply to.