PharmD/PhD Thoughts?

[romaniangirl]

So I've just applied to UHCOP and I've recently been looking into their PharmD/PhD dual degree program. I've been interested in research from an early age. Initially I decided against it because of the common stigma: hard to get grants, work 60+ hours a week with no results, you have no social life, and the pay is incredibly small. I figured that I would just do clinical pharmacy. Now after taking some upper level biochemistry classes as well as their labs, I'm getting really interested in research again. UHCOP requires that you apply after your P1 year for the dual degree program. While I've taken labs for the classes, I've never had any true research experience. Obviously before I decide to apply to a dual degree program I want to get some experience to see exactly what it's about. Now the question is: at UH we have a biochemistry lab that I could take (it's 3 credit hours) where you pretty much design your own experiment and test it. It revolves around biomaterials created from the ultrabithorax protein. The dept. chair who also heads the lab has said that it's meant to give the students a true research experience. You also spend the entire semester working on this project and in the end you write a paper (I don't think you publish or anything like that) and you can present at undergrad research day. So do you guys think that this would count as a decent research experience? Not only so that I can see research, but also in case I decide to apply to grad school, do you think it would be enough? Any thoughts?

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[Thestrugglez]

As a pharmacy school applicant this cycle, I have also seriously considered a PharmD/PhD dual degree. Here are my thoughts on the PhD/PharmD joint degree

Positives: More respect and get to be your own boss (if your research is good). Also, running a lab, while tiring, is actually not that hard. A lot of MD/PhDs usually just do their own thing and probably aren't even that good at doing research cause they're too busy seeing patients.

Negatives: More school (so higher opportunity cost), tough to maintain (getting grants = awful, especially with the cuts in last few years), low compensation (unless you're your own boss).

Conclusion: Definitely only something you should consider doing if you actually like research.

In your case, for your experiment design class, I would recommend that you try it out. I have had a few friends take similar courses and the general conclusion is that you spend a lot of hours without much to show for it (like most research in general). Still, it is experience. While it does count as research experience, the lack of publication makes it different then real research since the paper you write and the quality of research you do will (most likely) be much lower.

As for if this is enough, I'm not sure. In all honesty, it is probably on the low end. However, ultimately you serve as free labor for your PI and since these programs try to fulfill a quota for joint degrees, it really depends on how many other people are applying for this joint degree program.

 

[romaniangirl]

As a pharmacy school applicant this cycle, I have also seriously considered a PharmD/PhD dual degree. Here are my thoughts on the PhD/PharmD joint degree

Positives: More respect and get to be your own boss (if your research is good). Also, running a lab, while tiring, is actually not that hard. A lot of MD/PhDs usually just do their own thing and probably aren't even that good at doing research cause they're too busy seeing patients.

Negatives: More school (so higher opportunity cost), tough to maintain (getting grants = awful, especially with the cuts in last few years), low compensation (unless you're your own boss).

Conclusion: Definitely only something you should consider doing if you actually like research.

In your case, for your experiment design class, I would recommend that you try it out. I have had a few friends take similar courses and the general conclusion is that you spend a lot of hours without much to show for it (like most research in general). Still, it is experience. While it does count as research experience, the lack of publication makes it different then real research since the paper you write and the quality of research you do will (most likely) be much lower.

As for if this is enough, I'm not sure. In all honesty, it is probably on the low end. However, ultimately you serve as free labor for your PI and since these programs try to fulfill a quota for joint degrees, it really depends on how many other people are applying for this joint degree program.

I have also recently been looking into working in the industry with the joint degree rather than in academia. While I wouldn't mind teaching a class or two, I don't think that academia is for me as well as where the market is going for tenured professors. I have recently come across a position at the FDA for a pharmacologist. It requires the PhD and it pays about a pharmacist salary (100k). I am now wondering if this is the standard in the industry or is this just a rare find.

I don't know about your schools, but at UH, they will cover everything but the first year of your professional program (p1) so basically it's pretty much almost free. While it is a slightly longer program (7 years vs 4 for just pharmd), you do end up with 2 graduate degrees. I also have researched some of the dual degree graduates from UHCOP and some of them went on to do primarily research and worked as a pharmacist part-time (either PRN at a hospital or worked one day a week in retail) so in theory, this could alleviate the standard "bad pay" associated with a research scientist.

I'm not too familiar with the standards used in research as well as the overall job description, but maybe you know. If you are working in the industry as let's say a medicinal chemistry for a pharmaceutical company or any other company that does drug research, do you still have to finance your own research through your own individual grants or is it a collaborative effort done on behalf of the company? For example, the drug discovery team at Pfizer, are they applying for their own grants and doing their own research or is it based on the department as a whole?

 

[Rouelle]

I'm a PhD chemist and am in my last year of pharmacy school. Obviously, I'm not doing a joint program. Like you I am unlikely to pursue an academic position (but never say never, right?). Industry trends to be higher paying and comes with generally better schedules. You don't have to secure your own funding...that is taken care of by the company usually. The down side is lack of freedom to pursue your own interests. You are there to make them money and work on the projects you are assigned.

It sounds like the biochemistry class is likely not going to be anywhere near the intensity of legitimate research, but there is certainly no harm in giving it a try.

 

[romaniangirl]

Yeah that seems to be what I can find on the internet about doing research. While I like the idea of pharmacology and pk/pd research, I just don't have enough undergrad research experience to be accepted to a PhD program. I think I'll just stick with the PharmD and do a fellowship afterwards. Thanks for your help!

 

[Rouelle]

As a side note, PhD programs are relatively easy to get into. Lack of research experience won't likely prevent you from being admitted to many PhD programs.

 

[romaniangirl]

Haha okay let me be very frank here, I don't have ANY research experience what so ever, unless you count stuff from high school.