PharmD Prog. w/out Recommendation Letters?

[Rx9Sp0rts]

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Hi

I'd like to get into a PharmD. program in 2 years. I can work on my pre-req courses now. I have no problem taking the pcat and maybe some interviews, but I would rather not have to go through them. My big problem is mainly the recommendation letters. I don't want to volunteer nor work for a pharmacy while I am trying to get straight As on my pre-req courses. My question is, does anyone out there know of any Pharmacy program that doesn't require any recommendation letters to apply? Thanks.

- Rx9Sp0rts

 

[EarlyEditionDude]

Dang, what kind of first post is this???

"I don't want to volunteer nor work for a pharmacy while I am trying to get straight As on my pre-req courses. "

😕 😕 😕

Dude, re-read what you wrote!!!

🙄 🙄 🙄

 

[dgroulx]

You could try the University of Florida. They have letter of recommendation forms that must be filled out, instead of true letters of recommendation. I had two of my professors fill them out.

They do require the PCAT, but if you're making straight A's, then you won't have any problem getting a high score. Also, they don't require interviews, just a personal statement submitted on-line.

They select people based on academic ability because they try to make you flunk out.

 

[jemc2000]

Dana,

I have to say you are terrifying me. They actually try to flunk you out? Doesn't sound like a school that wants to teach you how to be a good Pharmacist, rather a school that wants perfect students. Am I wrong to think that these are not always the same?

 

[jj99]

Oh come on, no one is trying to make you flunk out. Once you get in you'll be fine, barring that you develop a heroin addiction or forget how to read.

 

[Rx9Sp0rts]

Yes, I'd like to concentrate on my prerequisite courses instead of lessening my chances of passing my prereq courses by volunteering or working for a pharmacy at the same time. Why volunteer when they will ultimately teach you in your rotations when you get to the PharmD, right? PharmD programs already have so much criterias of selecting students. Essays, interviews, pcats, prereq courses, gpa, activities, etc. So I simply just ask, if possible, anyone would know if there would any colleges that don't require the recommendation letters. If there is, then good. If not, it was worth asking for. Furthermore, who knows what they write about you in those recommendation letters.

 

[ucdbiochem]

i don't think there is any school that doesn't require letter of rec.
i guess you gotta stick with the rules.

as far as not volunteering so you can get straight A's, i think you should apply to med school.

 

[dgroulx]

Originally posted by jemc2000
Dana,

I have to say you are terrifying me. They actually try to flunk you out? Doesn't sound like a school that wants to teach you how to be a good Pharmacist, rather a school that wants perfect students. Am I wrong to think that these are not always the same?

We started back to school this week. One third of the 2nd year students failed. Why? Because too many people did well on the midterm, so the final was made more difficult by including questions that were not part of the lecture material. Instead, the professor found small, insignificant, details in the book and put those on the test.

I guess they aren't trying to flunk you out. They just want you to spend all your free time studying. UF is not a nurturing type of school. They do have classes about teaching you to be a good pharmacist, but those are only worth 1 or 2 credit hours. The hard classes are worth 4 or 5. So, you can't keep up your GPA by doing well in the warm & fuzzy classes.

At least year one is not too difficult. I have time to change my study habits for next year. Here I am goofing off on SDN, when I should be studying.

 

[jemc2000]

So about how many hours per week do you study, Dana?

 

[dgroulx]

Originally posted by jemc2000
So about how many hours per week do you study, Dana?

I'm only studying about 10 hours per week right now. They recommended that we study about 5 hours per day in order to do well.

Those of us with a BS in one of the sciences have not had to study as hard, because the 1st year encompasses a lot of material that we have had before. The students with an AA from a community college seem to be struggling more than those with an AA from a university such as UF or USF.

In the 2nd year, it's all new stuff to learn. So, people who did not study much the 1st year thought that they could get through using the same study habits.

 

[jemc2000]

So since I will be going in with an AA from a community college, perhaps if I make it through the first year I will make it all the way.

So for a rough estimate we would have 8 hours of classes/study groups and 5 hours of study time per day? Plus the driving time to St. Pete? What would you estimate, 3 times per week? So that would be 40 + 25 +10. So 75 hours per week would be a close guess?

 

[dgroulx]

Originally posted by jemc2000
So 75 hours per week would be a close guess?

That sounds just a little high. Most of us watch lectures at high speed, so you can watch a 50 minute lecture in 30-40 minutes and there are about 5 lectures per day.

We have to be on campus anywhere from 2 to 3 times per week the first year. I'd knock your estimate down to 60 hrs per week.

 

[RPhToBe]

I think the exposure to some sort of health related setting is crucial to any PharmD applicant. In the section for PharmCas asking the applicant to list any extracurriculars, do you plan on leaving it blank? Also, how about in the supplemental applications from each university that perchance may ask the question-"list any experiences that have inspired you to pursue the PharmD degree." I would seriously reconsider your mindset on not doing anything during your undergrad. At minimum, you should consider joining a pre-pharm club at your school, if they have one. The bottom line is, there are many applicants with 3.5+ gpa's who volunteer and work. When the admissions folks look at your application, they'll wonder what exactly your motivation is.

 

[Rx9Sp0rts]

"as far as not volunteering so you can get straight A's, i think you should apply to med school."

Does Med School require any recommendation letters? is it easier to get into than PharmD?

 

[Triangulation]

Sorry dude, but any school that doesn't require LOR is not worth going to. That's insane. Grades and PCAT scores don't tell you a whole lot about an applicant, that' s why they want the opinion of another whose judgment they feel they can trust.

The good schools out this way put way more emphasis on LOR and personal statements than grades.

 

[candle786]

What if you were never very close with your professors during undergrad and now you have graduated? Do schools require LORs from professors?

 

[Triangulation]

Originally posted by candle786
What if you were never very close with your professors during undergrad and now you have graduated? Do schools require LORs from professors?

They're not gonna wave the LOR requirement bc you weren't close to your prof.

You're not taking any classes now? If not, the other approach is select a prof whose class you got an 'A' in, make an appt. bring your personal statement and a resume, and maybe your transcipt if you're confident in it. Tell him that you need a LOR from him and leave him all the material. During the meeting explain your intentions. You want him to find out who you are and what you've done so he can incorporate it into the letter. Let him know that he can contact you later if he has questions.

 

[candle786]

oh I wasn't trying to say they would waive the requirement, just asking advice as to what to do in that case. Thank you for your suggestion. That sounds very good. I was familiar with many of the professors but never close enough that I would think they would know enough about me to be able to write a recommendation.

I actually have to take speech and econ to fulfill prereqs but those aren't science classes. If I take pharm tech classes, could I get that instructor to write a recommendation for me or should I stick with undergrad professors?

 

[Modnar]

Originally posted by Rx9Sp0rts
"as far as not volunteering so you can get straight A's, i think you should apply to med school."

Does Med School require any recommendation letters? is it easier to get into than PharmD?

Yes, med school requires LORs. It's much harder to get into than pharm school, partly because there are more applicants to med school than pharm school.

While we're discussing LORs, I have a question. Do you think a school will accept a LOR from someone who's not a professor? For example, could a person who worked as a tech use a LOR from his/her supervisor?

 

[gdk420]

Yes, I got one from my pharmacy manager. (More than 20 years in the pharmacy business). I had three letter of recs. One from my pharmacist, one from my pharmacy manager, and one from my biology professor. I would suggest that you getting a letter of rec not just from a person who knows u, but someone who knows what it is like to be in the pharmacy area, either through doing research in the industry, as a clinical pharmacist, or even a sales rep. I would say that help push me over the edge and got me in. Other people had better grades, but everyone my pharmacist recommended got in. He basically knew what they were looking for in a student since he graduated from usc himself.
I would recommend getting experience, especially for those who want to go to usc since usc is big on experience. In addition, it would help u to answer some interview questions such as what don't u like about pharmacy, what u like about pharmacy, blah blah blah. It also helps with some classes to actually see the drugs.

 

[TPMOH]

Try Florida A & M University in Tallahassee, FL- to transfer into the PharmD program (for students currently not enrolled in a pharm school), just need to fill out application (both for the school and a separate pharm application, which includes a personal statement) and send in 2 copies transcripts. NO PCAT, NO LORs required. See their website (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I hope this helps.

 

[Caverject]

Originally posted by Rx9Sp0rts
Yes, I'd like to concentrate on my prerequisite courses instead of lessening my chances of passing my prereq courses by volunteering or working for a pharmacy at the same time. Why volunteer when they will ultimately teach you in your rotations when you get to the PharmD, right? PharmD programs already have so much criterias of selecting students. Essays, interviews, pcats, prereq courses, gpa, activities, etc. So I simply just ask, if possible, anyone would know if there would any colleges that don't require the recommendation letters. If there is, then good. If not, it was worth asking for. Furthermore, who knows what they write about you in those recommendation letters.

You know, there IS a difference between pharmacists that were techs before school and pharmacists that were not. If you sound like that at your interview, you are not going to be accepted because you sound like a jack@$$ Pharmacy is all about community service. Medicine is the same waY! You may think it is insignificant but it means something, and mostly it means something to almost all pharmacy schools. If you dont like that, you need to go into something else. How bout computers? Air traffic controler? Dungeon Operator? Those jobs will allow you to not see the outside world, just the way you want it, right?

 

[Rx9Sp0rts]

"You know, there IS a difference between pharmacists that were techs before school and pharmacists that were not. If you sound like that at your interview, you are not going to be accepted because you sound like a jack@$$ Pharmacy is all about community service. Medicine is the same waY! You may think it is insignificant but it means something, and mostly it means something to almost all pharmacy schools. If you dont like that, you need to go into something else. How bout computers? Air traffic controler? Dungeon Operator? Those jobs will allow you to not see the outside world, just the way you want it, right? "

What I've asked for was if anyone knew of any school that doesn't require LOR. Of course I will not sound like that on an interview. I never said I wanted to be an air traffic controller, dungeon operator, and computers. You said "there is a difference between pharmacists that were techs before school and pharmacist that were not". I hope that difference is not being an @$$wipe who jumps into conclusions. LOL. Remember the KISS principle.

 

[crying moo]

Originally posted by Rx9Sp0rts
Yes, I'd like to concentrate on my prerequisite courses instead of lessening my chances of passing my prereq courses by volunteering or working for a pharmacy at the same time. Why volunteer when they will ultimately teach you in your rotations when you get to the PharmD, right? PharmD programs already have so much criterias of selecting students. Essays, interviews, pcats, prereq courses, gpa, activities, etc.

why volunteer or work in a pharmacy? because you care. because you want to be a pharmacist. and you are interested in what pharmacy is all about. (or are you?) even at the sacrifice of your grades. (and working for a little extra spending cash too.)what do you think you'll be doing when you graduate pharm school? aren't you excited to do what a pharmacist does? i am i am!!

Furthermore, who knows what they write about you in those recommendation letters.

are you seriously afraid of a poor recommendation? it's easy to get a good one: work at pharmacy, do everything the pharmacist tells you (*key!), smile and be polite, learn the name of a few drugs... what's there not to like about you?

besides what's your deal with straight A's. My GPA was 2.8 when I applied and I will not say any more.

*apology for my poor English. Spend a week in another country and look what happens.

 

[dgroulx]

Originally posted by TPMOH
Try Florida A & M University in Tallahassee, FL- to transfer into the PharmD program (for students currently not enrolled in a pharm school), just need to fill out application (both for the school and a separate pharm application, which includes a personal statement) and send in 2 copies transcripts. NO PCAT, NO LORs required. See their website (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I hope this helps.

However, if you want to pass the boards, you may not want to attend FAMU. There is a rumor that they may lose their status as an accredited school because of their poor scores on NAPLEX.

 

[badxmojo]

i think university of maryland does not require rec's.. it might have changed though.

 

[Modnar]

Originally posted by crying moo
why volunteer or work in a pharmacy? because you care. because you want to be a pharmacist. and you are interested in what pharmacy is all about. (or are you?) even at the sacrifice of your grades. (and working for a little extra spending cash too.)what do you think you'll be doing when you graduate pharm school? aren't you excited to do what a pharmacist does? i am i am!!

Another reason to work in a pharmacy is that if you do, you may find out that you don't like it as well as you thought you would and that this isn't the career you want. Would you rather find that out before you apply to pharm school, or during rotations, at which point you'll have spent several years and thousands of dollars on your career?

 

[Rx9Sp0rts]

The thing is, I have volunteered for a Pharmacy before at a local hospital. They had me volunteer on every Sunday in which my duties were to pick up orders at different floor levels and deliver meds. The problem was, I was more of in-the-way of the techs than a help. They wanted to just do their work and not teach me nor even had the desire to help me learn what they do. I've asked many questions and sure they tell me a few general things, but nothing more. I had the feeling that in the back of their minds, if I knew enough that I could take their jobs. I end up just standing around when there were no orders to be picked up or delivered. And the Pharmacist, she seemed like a workaholic. Hardly ever spoken and wanted to do all the work. There was one part when they were preping up I.V. packs and needles. I could tell they didn't want me there because she asked me to pick up something else and was very vague at her request. They were working pretty quick too. All that time, I just felt it was unecessary for me to be there. I hung around until one day, 2 other volunteers were there too, which leaves me with no work at all. Somone must have screwed up the schedule. And these were high schoolers who seemed to be anti-social. Only spoke to each other, even when I try to strike a converstation. I knew then that I would quit volunteering already. So, I asked the Pharmacist if I could watch the video that they had about how to prep up meds and chemo drugs in their asceptic area room so that I'd at least get something out of that day. And so I did. I ended up volunteering just 3 months. From that, I would say I have at least an idea on what the pharmacy setting is like and what they do.

Pharmacy school entrance is really tough to get into. If I don't do well on the courses, I may never get in at all. If I don't understand what the Science courses teaches me, I may have a hard time understanding Pharmacy courses in PharmD school. If I don't volunteer again, it doesn't mean I am uncaring. In my opinion, what matters is when one gets to the Pharmacy rotations, where they will actually teach you a whole lot more and make a true difference. These 2 pre-pharm years are only the academic part. But hey, not that I have anything against schools that require LOR. If rules are rules, so be it. Just would be nice if someone could tell me any school that don't require LOR, just as I had asked.

 

[Modnar]

Originally posted by Rx9Sp0rts
Just would be nice if someone could tell me any school that don't require LOR, just as I had asked.

If you look at the first post on this page, you'll see that someone did.

 

[Rx9Sp0rts]

"If you look at the first post on this page, you'll see that someone did."

Yes of course. I thank you people who go straight to the point to answering my question. Just that some don't and probably talk like I've done something wrong.

 

[Rx9Sp0rts]

"Just that some don't and probably talk like I've done something wrong."

Err, I think I was just referring to SouthMOUTH2006 and a very few. Everyone else, thanks for taking the time in replying.

 

[Triangulation]

Originally posted by Rx9Sp0rts
"Just that some don't and probably talk like I've done something wrong."

Err, I think I was just referring to SouthMOUTH2006 and a very few. Everyone else, thanks for taking the time in replying.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAH. I like this guy!!!

But, seriously, they're right dude. You need to attend a school that require LOR. That's just a silly criterion to not require them.

 

[Caverject]

SouthMOUTH2006?? 😕 😕 😕

I didnt mean to rant or flame you. You also failed to explain you DID have prior experiance. Do you have any references from the places you volunteered at? If so, that should be good enough. As it says up top, if they dont require a LOTR, I would look some where else. I know you have a great desire to be a perfect student, but seriously, that is not what most pharmacy schools look for. Most look for a blend of good grades, good pcat, and good interview. Interview is key at a lot of schools. You could also do very poor on the PCAT and make up with your stellar grades, or vice versa. Its not all about grades....most of the time 🙂

dgroulx- I heard the same rumour, but I also heard the possibility of Florida State taking the pharmacy program from FAMU. Have you heard anything about that?? again, just rumour!

 

[badxmojo]

I understand that some might belive that schools that don't require a LOR aren't worth applying to..and for the most part..they might be right.. bt university of maryland doesn't and its considered one of the top pharm schools. I was bewildered as to why the didn't require one. I found out that there not required but can be submitted. So I submitted one.

 

[dgroulx]

Originally posted by South2006

dgroulx- I heard the same rumour, but I also heard the possibility of Florida State taking the pharmacy program from FAMU. Have you heard anything about that?? again, just rumour!

I haven't heard about that, but FSU is so behind UF in the medical sciences and they need to catch up.

The problem with FAMU is that it is a minority school and a state school. If they lose accreditation, people will scream racism. I believe it is their own fault by lowering their standards to make the school easier.