PhD student to MD/PhD ~ chances?

[jacksyn]

Hi all,

I am a 1st year PhD student (pharmacology), who is interested in switching to MD/PhD, or doing an MD after my PhD.

I went to a hyper-competitive and hyper-prestigious engineering school (think sunny weather ) for undergrad, and got a 3.5 cGPA, and a 3.2 sGPA, BUT the sGPA is composed of a handful of C's and D's in science and math, and a lot of A's to bring it back up. I majored in chemical engineering. I also took the MCAT's 3 years ago (after college), without much studying and got in the low 20's. (I guess a combination of arrogance and laziness).

I am in a science PhD program now, and have a 3.8 GPA. My classes are with other PhD students, and also SMP students. My GPA puts me in the top 1/4 - 1/5 of the class. I also have a few decent publications, and have volunteering hours.

I'd really love another chance -- is there any way to salvage my record?

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[wagonwheel23]

1. What type of science PhD program and how long have you been there?
2. Why do you want to switch to MD/PhD? What experiences have you had that make you want to do this?
3. What was your motivation to enter a PhD program?

 

[jacksyn]

Thanks for replying...
1. Pharmacology PhD
2. trying to discover new drugs to help people is great, but I also want to see those patients and their families smile when something I do helps them, and cry when something I do cannot help them.
3. I thought my shot at medicine was over, but figured PhD would at least offer me a way to still contribute through science... but I'm hoping maybe I still can do med school...

 

[GreenDuck12]

Good news, you can still salvage your record if you are willing to put in the work. So lets get the bad stuff out of the way. A 3.5 cGPA is a little low but fine. The 3.2 sGPA is a problem as it is far below what is accepted for allopathic programs but is acceptable for osteopathic medical schools. Your graduate GPA is strong but it is not weighed nearly as heavily as undergraduate GPA. Instead of typing a long response, see the bullet points below and let me know if you have questions. I will let others speak to the merits of completing the PhD program vs stopping early.

I recommend doing the following
1. research low GPA recovery (sGPA)
2. research allopathic vs osteopathic medical schools and admission statistics (yours are right in the range for osteopathic as of now). Also research osteopathic grade replacement policies and see how this could impact your application
3. begin volunteering in a medical setting and shadowing physicians. make sure this is really what you want to do before making drastic moves in the pre med direction.
4. take any recommended/required pre med classes that you have left. consider taking additional undergraduate courses if you are shooting for allopathic schools
5. study for the MCAT and only take it when you are most prepared to do well and do not plan on having another opportunity to retake
6. when you apply, apply broadly and make sure your applications are in early

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Hi all,

I am a 1st year PhD student (pharmacology), who is interested in switching to MD/PhD, or doing an MD after my PhD.

I went to a hyper-competitive and hyper-prestigious engineering school (think sunny weather ) for undergrad, and got a 3.5 cGPA, and a 3.2 sGPA, BUT the sGPA is composed of a handful of C's and D's in science and math, and a lot of A's to bring it back up. I majored in chemical engineering. I also took the MCAT's 3 years ago (after college), without much studying and got in the low 20's. (I guess a combination of arrogance and laziness).

I am in a science PhD program now, and have a 3.8 GPA. My classes are with other PhD students, and also SMP students. My GPA puts me in the top 1/4 - 1/5 of the class. I also have a few decent publications, and have volunteering hours.

I'd really love another chance -- is there any way to salvage my record?

Your grad school GPA will not get much weight for your application. Most schools consider grad school grades to be extremely inflated.

 

[futuremdforme]

Realistically if you went to any of the schools I am thinking of, I'm guessing you will want MD. You'll need a bunch of pre-reqs anyway so those can bring up your GPA/sGPA. You could also throw in some extra classes if you need to bring it up higher. Engineers tend to do well on the MCAT (as long as you're okay for verbal) so I'd expect that you can get some MD interviews if you can get your GPA up a bit (straight As from here on!) and ace the MCAT. And clinical experience of course.

 

[QofQuimica]

My advice to you, as a PhD-to-MD myself, depends on what your career goal is. Do you envision a career primarily as a researcher, or as a clinician?

If it's the former, I would advise you to continue on with your current career path. You likely won't need an MD, unless your goal is to get into clinical trials, in which case you will either need your own MD or to collaborate with MDs. But if it's bench research in your future, a PhD in pharm is a fine launching point. It will be much cheaper, faster, and more efficient to continue on with the PhD route than it will be to try to re-gear for a med school application. You will also get much better bench research training as a PhD and post-doc than what you could ever get as an MD.

If your goal is to be a clinician or clinical researcher, I recommend that you see whether your current school offers the option of leaving with a terminal MS so that you can turn your attention toward taking the MCAT and otherwise preparing your app for medical school. Given the length of training time for the MD, there is simply no reason for a future clinician to spend the time getting a PhD. Even if you go into clinical academics (which is what I currently do), an MD/MS will already put you far ahead of most of your colleagues in terms of your research background. Earning a PhD will also not do much to improve your app for medical school versus other things you could be doing instead, and it will not prepare you for a clinical research career. You're much better off doing a clinical research MS or a research fellowship after your MD if you want to get clinical research experience.

Regarding doing a combined MD/PhD, you are not a competitive applicant for those programs with your current stats. Given that these programs are not friendly to older nontrads (over age 30 or so), and that it would take a significant amount of work over a period of several years for you to possibly overcome your prior low grades/MCAT scores, I would advise you to forgo this route. Doing an MD after a PhD is certainly possible; as I said, I did this myself. However, again, it is very rarely necessary. There is really no such thing as a 50-50 bench research/clinical job. You are much better off deciding what you want to ultimately do (bench research versus clinical research versus clinical work), and then pursuing the one degree most appropriate for that goal (MD for clinical or clinical research careers, PhD for bench research careers).

Hope this is helpful, and best of luck to you.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Hi all,

I am a 1st year PhD student (pharmacology), who is interested in switching to MD/PhD, or doing an MD after my PhD.

I went to a hyper-competitive and hyper-prestigious engineering school (think sunny weather ) for undergrad, and got a 3.5 cGPA, and a 3.2 sGPA, BUT the sGPA is composed of a handful of C's and D's in science and math, and a lot of A's to bring it back up. I majored in chemical engineering. I also took the MCAT's 3 years ago (after college), without much studying and got in the low 20's. (I guess a combination of arrogance and laziness).

I am in a science PhD program now, and have a 3.8 GPA. My classes are with other PhD students, and also SMP students. My GPA puts me in the top 1/4 - 1/5 of the class. I also have a few decent publications, and have volunteering hours.

I'd really love another chance -- is there any way to salvage my record?

Your background is a little like mine (pharmacology PhD > medical school). My advice is that finishing the PhD with solid publications is statistically your best best for an allopathic school. I did this myself and and I know several people with GPAs like yours and who became physicians after a PhD. If you are luke-warm about research (even a hint), I recommend you do not try to complete a PhD because you likely will not stick it out....very tough and lonely road. Leaving with a terminal masters degree is a better choice. You'll find that some schools will actually value graduate school grades (many did for me, and my graduate school grades were really hard-earned and in no way inflated). You'll should consider retaking any prereq class with less than a B grade, but I honestly think that 'redemption' by repeating every class with a low grade is baloney as it wastes time, resources, and teaches you pretty much zero additional information. Know that if you ever came in front of someone like me, I'd look more favorably on graduate degree grades.

Agree with Q--a medical degree is not needed for drug discovery. In addition, the clinical responsibilities are such that it is EXTREMELY hard to conduct competitive research and see patients (I do both, I have a grant, and I teach). It really is like having two full time jobs with one salary so expect your job to be your hobby and to occupy many nights, most weekends, and holidays. It's possible but it will REALLY cost you; better to do one job and do it well. Read that last line a few more times to make sure you remember it. Also, consider that medical school is AT LEAST a 7-10 year commitment that will cost +250K BEFORE interest accrues. You'll end up needing a 150% clinical job just to pay back the loan. Keep these things in mind.

If you think you will always regret not being a clinician, I get that, and nothing with likely satisfy it. Just realize it IS a job, medicine DOES become repetitive and mundane at times, it is not like most people think, and there are many ways to use your skills by serving people. I personally don't regret my decision, but the academic part (as hard as it was) was actually not the most difficult part of this career. Best of luck.

 

[TheTao]

While I agree that a PhD isn't required for a clinical research career, a PhD alone especially for a person interested in ANY type of clinical based research career is a bad idea for a number of reasons. First, second, and third, the job market for PhDs sucks major booty!!! Fourth, you're interested in medicine and research, not just research. Fifth, MD/PhD's seem to have fewer "obstacles" securing NIH grants. Sixth, the AMA lobby would NEVER allow medicine to become what academic/PhD careers have become, a cesspool of endless post docs and stiff competition with people from all over the world. Seventh, you could very likely secure funding and a stipend for both programs, especially if you're a woman and/or URM.

If I were the OP, I'd get my stats up so that I'm competitive for the dual program and prepare to leave with an MS degree followed by medical school as a second choice if not successful with the first option.