Philosophy?

[Algophiliac]

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Just out of curiosity, for those of you doing a major in philosophy, what is it like? I heard the intro philosophy courses are NOTHING like the logic and etc flow of upper division classes. So, some general questions:

• Does it involve a lot of writing and/or reading? If yes, what do you write (essays, proposals, critiques) and read (textbooks, novels)?
• Is it more critical thinking or memorization?
• Can you give me an example of what typically happens during class?
• Are classes lecture-based or discussion-based?
• What are general topics for a thesis and how do you write a thesis without...well, bench research?
• What on earth can you do with a philosophy major after graduation, if you decide not to pursue medical OR law school? 😛
• How does it differ from a psychology or sociology major?

 

[TheMightySmiter]

I was a philosophy minor, but I'll try to help you out. (Should have been a philosophy major instead of doing political science, because I loved my phil classes!! 🙂 ) This is just my experience, since there tends to be a lot more variety in philosophy and other liberal arts-based curricula than there is in the hard sciences.

1) It involves both a lot of writing and a lot of reading. More reading than writing, to be honest, and it can seem overwhelming at first. I mainly wrote analytical papers. We read almost solely primary sources. None of my classes were textbook-based. You will read what the philosophers wrote, and perhaps a few critiques thrown in. I also read a few novels that were heavily philosophical.

2) Critical thinking. No memorization, unless you're taking a course with a really bad professor. If you're having to memorize anything in philosophy, it probably means you aren't understanding the ideas well enough.

3) It depends on the class. Upper-level philosophy courses are, in particular, very discussion based. But there will be lecture portions too. It's important to listen and understand what's going on, and to ask a lot of questions.

4) Since I was a minor and didn't write a thesis, I can't help you much here. But in general, philosophy writing/research is all about analyzing a particular philosophical argument and stating why you agree or disagree. This doesn't mean that philosophical writing is just opinion writing, but it means that you have to be able to write what you think. You will often be writing about the implications of a particular philosophical argument or school of thought.

5) You can go to grad school in philosophy, to law school, or to the streets of Compton.

6) Psychology and sociology are based on what we can know and observe. Philosophy is based on what we can't know and often don't observe. That help?

Should add that I love philosophy and highly recommend majoring in it if you are interested! It's my opinion that being a philosophy major will teach you how to think far better than almost any other major will.

 

[scotsdoc54]

I was a philosophy minor, so I can help some.

1) Yes, it is a lot of reading and writing. In intro classes, I did have a few general textbooks, as you have to learn the basics first such as terminology, the history of philosophy, logical and valid argumentation, etc. In upper level courses, however, we pretty much always read sources directly from the philosophers we were studying. Discussing Spinoza? Well, you read Spinoza. Then you critique Spinoza (in papers/exams). Was his argumentation valid? His premises and presuppositions? What are the logical conclusions from his ideas? Etc.

2) Definitely more critical thinking.

3) This is very dependent on the teacher. Most of my philosophy teachers assigned readings that had to be done before each class, and we spent most of the time in "discussion" as a way to develop the ideas the prof wanted to get across. This is probably different at a big school, but there were normally only like 10-15 folks in my philosophy class, so the prof essentially led the discussion down the path he wanted us to follow and let us do the legwork in discussion.

4) Some lecture, but for me mostly discussion. Again, school-dependent. Philosophy is definitely a critical thinking topic, so I would assume most places do some discussion.

5) Most theses at my school in philosophy were critical analyses of particular philosophies. Some analyses looked at the historical impact of certain philosophies, some compared two or more, some talked about how the philosophy impacted religious movements, others critiqued the methodology of the philosophy being discussed, etc. It was pretty wide open at my school.

6) Many people go into ministry. Others into graduate school in philosophy, public policy, history, religious studies, sociology or social work, etc. Some people go into careers that have nothing in common with philosophy except the requirement for abstract and critical thinking. Just depends on your goals.

7) Psychology and sociology are behavioral/social sciences that study human behavior, experience, and interaction both on the individual scale and in populations. It's much more applied. Philosophy is the study of knowledge and reality. It's abstract and very reflective. I loved it, but its not for everyone.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Wow, I think we just made the same post...lol.

 

[scotsdoc54]

Wow, I think we just made the same post...lol.

Being a philosophy minor/major also teaches you to read minds. 😛

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Definitely a perk.

 

[scotsdoc54]

Definitely a perk.

It really helps with the ladies.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

It really helps with the ladies.

Haha, or the gents in my case. 😛


Okay, sorry for hijacking your thread, OP!

 

[fMRI]

Added bonus: you'll easily get 14 or 15 in the verbal section of the MCAT.

As philosophy student, you'll be reading complex texts with challenging vocabulary so you'll soon come to think the MCAT verbal is a joke. If you do OK and score 11 on the other two sections, you'll have a whopping MCAT of 37!

Remember: 15 in verbal and a good writing score hasn't kept anyone out of med school. Lame bench research has.

 

[voitokas]

Just out of curiosity, for those of you doing a major in philosophy, what is it like? I heard the intro philosophy courses are NOTHING like the logic and etc flow of upper division classes. So, some general questions:

• Does it involve a lot of writing and/or reading? If yes, what do you write (essays, proposals, critiques) and read (textbooks, novels)?
• Is it more critical thinking or memorization?
• Can you give me an example of what typically happens during class?
• Are classes lecture-based or discussion-based?
• What are general topics for a thesis and how do you write a thesis without...well, bench research?
• What on earth can you do with a philosophy major after graduation, if you decide not to pursue medical OR law school? 😛
• How does it differ from a psychology or sociology major?

I was a philosophy major and a biochem major...

1. yes and yes: mostly essays; mostly essays (never novels, rarely textbooks)
2. critical thinking (nb: this does not mean writing your opinion🙂 )
3. both/either - really depends on the prof and the subject
4. generally a thesis involves applying a pattern to some body of stuff, e.g. the placement of X's work on Y's map of ethics; more like a legal thesis than a scientific thesis
5. nothing. seriously - you could wait tables or drive a taxi, but the philosophy degree gives you no competitive advantage in those fields
6. people will take you more seriously, to some degree. which is silly, because philosophy can be as fruitcake a major as psych or sociology...

and it's true about philosophy majors doing well with verbal and writing, fwiw

other points: many philosophy classes, especially intro ones, are mind-numbingly boring. This is true of sociology and psychology as well, though. How about a nice major in computer science?

 

[Algophiliac]

I was a philosophy major and a biochem major...

1. yes and yes: mostly essays; mostly essays (never novels, rarely textbooks)
2. critical thinking (nb: this does not mean writing your opinion🙂 )
3. both/either - really depends on the prof and the subject
4. generally a thesis involves applying a pattern to some body of stuff, e.g. the placement of X's work on Y's map of ethics; more like a legal thesis than a scientific thesis
5. nothing. seriously - you could wait tables or drive a taxi, but the philosophy degree gives you no competitive advantage in those fields
6. people will take you more seriously, to some degree. which is silly, because philosophy can be as fruitcake a major as psych or sociology...

and it's true about philosophy majors doing well with verbal and writing, fwiw

other points: many philosophy classes, especially intro ones, are mind-numbingly boring. This is true of sociology and psychology as well, though. How about a nice major in computer science?

Uhhh, yeah no. 😛 That was the class I hated most in high school. My mind does NOT bend that way AT.ALL. Pffft.

You don't seem particularly happy with your philosophy major...why is that?

Philosophy does not really seem like a very practical major, so I was considering tacking on a double major (already doing biology, for sure) in psychology and then minoring in philosophy? Or maybe double majoring in english or the humanities (but again, both very impractical, unnecessary majors) and then minoring in philosophy. For those of you with philosophy minors, what major(s) did you have?

What are the students in the field like? I know every major has its own weird stereotype, but I haven't heard anything about philosophy major personalities!

 

[cnfz]

Does it involve a lot of writing and/or reading? If yes, what do you write (essays, proposals, critiques) and read (textbooks, novels)?

Well, there's definitely more writing compared to science classes and reading is significantly less page-wise. However, the reading is more technical and sometimes convoluted because of translations and inherent writing styles of specific philosophers. For philosophy classes at UCSD, we usually have one or two papers due in a quarter. The readings vary depending on the philosophy class, where broad topics such as philosophy of mind or religion are usually articles and narrow topics on specific philosophers are usually collections from that philosopher.

Is it more critical thinking or memorization?

Philosophy classes definitely require critical thinking as well as a little bit of memorization. You still have to memorize some arguments and positions of philosophers.

Can you give me an example of what typically happens during class?

Professor will usually present and clarify the arguments and open up the discussion for the class.

Are classes lecture-based or discussion-based?

Discussion based.

What are general topics for a thesis and how do you write a thesis without...well, bench research?

A thesis could begin with a different interpretation of an philosopher's work or with thought experiments. But it could also come from scientific means like for philosophy of mind or science.

What on earth can you do with a philosophy major after graduation, if you decide not to pursue medical OR law school? 😛

PhD in philosophy. Become a professor. Or become a professional grant writer.

How does it differ from a psychology or sociology major?

I can't say much since I don't know much about them.

 

[voitokas]

You don't seem particularly happy with your philosophy major...why is that?

I wasn't unhappy with it - like any schoolwork, it's what you put into it. I loved the readings, and loved the essay-writing. I had a couple of really good classes, some pretty good ones, and only a couple of awful ones - about the same as Biochem, really, in that regard. Philosophy can be a struggle for those who dislike reading or are not natural writers, I guess, and it's certainly not a useful degree to have. It is not a subject for which one needs teachers, and you might be better off reading on your own than making it a major or minor. Better to use that extra time volunteering or playing a sport or something...

Philosophy does not really seem like a very practical major, so I was considering tacking on a double major (already doing biology, for sure) in psychology and then minoring in philosophy? Or maybe double majoring in english or the humanities (but again, both very impractical, unnecessary majors) and then minoring in philosophy. For those of you with philosophy minors, what major(s) did you have?

How about majoring in Biology and minoring in English? By taking a slightly lighter class load, you can get better grades and have more time for quality ECA's - and the better grades will be more of an asset going into any field than will having had the extra major.🙄

What are the students in the field like? I know every major has its own weird stereotype, but I haven't heard anything about philosophy major personalities!

I'm sure there are many! The stereotypes I have of fellow Philosophy majors are:
- the Intellectual: likes to think about deep things, and wants you to know it. Favorite philosopher probably German - but the Intellectual may not have actually read much of his work.
- the Beatnik: smokes way too much pot, favorite philosopher may be Carlos Castaneda. Possibly believes he is a Native American.
- the Arguer: drinks too much coffee, will argue any point from any angle for fun. She will likely enter law school.
- the Feminist: good thinker, probably smarter than you (suck it up). Can be super annoying to talk to when she has a point to make, or if you don't realize that she's smarter than you are.
- the Rest: took some philosophy classes and liked them, decided to major. Very pleasant; what are they doing in this nuthouse?

Oh, and most Philosophy majors have a deep and abiding hatred of Business majors. In fact, for what it's worth, stereotypes of other majors from a former Philosophy/Biochemistry major's lofty tower:
- the Psychology Major: probably from a lower socioeconomic class that regards psych as an "intellectual" major. Usually becomes disillusioned while doing Master's research, or after meeting too many scientists who make fun of them.
- the Sociology major: will believe anything. Cries if you tell them that sociology is not a science.
- the Business major: ... no. I can't do it. But I could, and for hours.
- the English major: like a Philosophy major, but drinks and smokes less. Will probably end up waiting tables in the same place as the Philosophy major.
🙂

 

[scotsdoc54]

Philosophy does not really seem like a very practical major, so I was considering tacking on a double major (already doing biology, for sure) in psychology and then minoring in philosophy? Or maybe double majoring in english or the humanities (but again, both very impractical, unnecessary majors) and then minoring in philosophy. For those of you with philosophy minors, what major(s) did you have?

What are the students in the field like? I know every major has its own weird stereotype, but I haven't heard anything about philosophy major personalities!

It depends on what you consider "practical". If you mean practical as in "it teaches you job-specific skills", then really very few majors actually do that. Engineering and nursing jump to mind, but really the rest of undergrad is about teaching you how to learn and think. Philosophy is very "practical" in how it develops your critical thinking and analysis skills. I definitely can read scientific papers more critically thanks to both my science background and my philosophy background.

I was a biochemistry major with a philosophy minor.

I don't like generalizations, so I'll refrain from offering stereotypes, but I will venture to say that most philosophy folks probably like abstract thinking and critical analysis.

 

[pharaoh88]

IMO, philosophy is a great pre-med major. From my experience this cycle, it has really only helped me. Not to mention I really enjoy the subject material!

Positives:
- Critical thinking skills developed in major help on ALL sections of MCAT
- Adcoms love diversity in all areas...including field of study
- Philosophy is fun and generally lower stress than a science major

Potential Negative:
- Lack of advanced science background (can easily be rectified by doing a Bio minor)

Overall, if you are thinking seriously about philosophy as a major, I say...go for it!👍

 

[Hoody]

IMO, philosophy is a great pre-med major. From my experience this cycle, it has really only helped me. Not to mention I really enjoy the subject material!

Positives:
- Critical thinking skills developed in major help on ALL sections of MCAT
- Adcoms love diversity in all areas...including field of study
- Philosophy is fun and generally lower stress than a science major

Potential Negative:
- Lack of advanced science background (can easily be rectified by doing a Bio minor)

Overall, if you are thinking seriously about philosophy as a major, I say...go for it!👍

You're a beast....congrats on absolutely killing this cycle. 👍👍

 

[Algophiliac]

I wasn't unhappy with it - like any schoolwork, it's what you put into it. I loved the readings, and loved the essay-writing. I had a couple of really good classes, some pretty good ones, and only a couple of awful ones - about the same as Biochem, really, in that regard. Philosophy can be a struggle for those who dislike reading or are not natural writers, I guess, and it's certainly not a useful degree to have. It is not a subject for which one needs teachers, and you might be better off reading on your own than making it a major or minor. Better to use that extra time volunteering or playing a sport or something...

I suppose you do have an excellent point that from a practical standpoint, it's just wasting time. 🙁 Despite the fact that I do read philosophy on my own time nowadays, I obviously don't put nearly as much time into it as I would if it were a major or minor. Sighhh.

How about majoring in Biology and minoring in English? By taking a slightly lighter class load, you can get better grades and have more time for quality ECA's - and the better grades will be more of an asset going into any field than will having had the extra major.🙄

Again, good point. I hate practicality and reality. 😛 But I'm curious as to why you recommend a minor in English, as opposed to a minor in philosophy or psychology.

I'm sure there are many! The stereotypes I have of fellow Philosophy majors are:
- the Intellectual: likes to think about deep things, and wants you to know it. Favorite philosopher probably German - but the Intellectual may not have actually read much of his work.
- the Beatnik: smokes way too much pot, favorite philosopher may be Carlos Castaneda. Possibly believes he is a Native American.
- the Arguer: drinks too much coffee, will argue any point from any angle for fun. She will likely enter law school.
- the Feminist: good thinker, probably smarter than you (suck it up). Can be super annoying to talk to when she has a point to make, or if you don't realize that she's smarter than you are.
- the Rest: took some philosophy classes and liked them, decided to major. Very pleasant; what are they doing in this nuthouse?

Oh, and most Philosophy majors have a deep and abiding hatred of Business majors. In fact, for what it's worth, stereotypes of other majors from a former Philosophy/Biochemistry major's lofty tower:
- the Psychology Major: probably from a lower socioeconomic class that regards psych as an "intellectual" major. Usually becomes disillusioned while doing Master's research, or after meeting too many scientists who make fun of them.
- the Sociology major: will believe anything. Cries if you tell them that sociology is not a science.
- the Business major: ... no. I can't do it. But I could, and for hours.
- the English major: like a Philosophy major, but drinks and smokes less. Will probably end up waiting tables in the same place as the Philosophy major.
🙂

Haha, the Beatnik is the one I really don't want to meet. Unfortunately I fall quite neatly into the Intellectual category. Bad, bad me.

And that criticism of the psychology major sounds spot on. 😛

scotsdoc54, I LOVE abstract thinking and critical analysis. There is so much science going on in my classes right now, that I usually take breaks from studying to simply analyze some philosophers. Not my only form of fun and relaxation, but I find stretching my thinking in that particular direction to be enticing.

Wow, pharaoh88, great stats! 🙂 Now I'm just utterly confused with all of the conflicting opinions. Wasting time, money, and energy on something that is not necessary makes me feel a bit guilty, but I thought college was about exploration and becoming more well-rounded...not just striving to be practical and ending up with a well-paying job.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Wow, pharaoh88, great stats! 🙂 Now I'm just utterly confused with all of the conflicting opinions. Wasting time, money, and energy on something that is not necessary makes me feel a bit guilty, but I thought college was about exploration and becoming more well-rounded...not just striving to be practical and ending up with a well-paying job.

I don't think you need to feel guilty about it. 🙂 If I were you, I would double major in biology and philosophy. A lot of people will probably tell you not to double major because it's "harder", but I really don't think it is. You have to take 120 credit hours to graduate anyway. You can choose to have one major and take a bunch of random other classes, or you can choose to have two majors and take only a few random other classes. I think both are good options, but it depends on your personality. If you want to take courses in a lot of different subject areas and get exposure to a lot of different material, do the first option. If you are the type of person who would prefer to specialize in one or two very interesting things and doesn't like having random disjointed classes, do the second option. A good way to determine which person you are is to ask yourself, "If I were to major in biology, what would my electives look like?" From what you've said, it seems like you would probably take a lot of philosophy classes anyway. So do the major!

Although, I would just major in philosophy (without the bio) and then say f*ck all if I didn't get into med school and go live on the streets. But most people need more structure in life than that. 😉

 

[Eyti]

Added bonus: you'll easily get 14 or 15 in the verbal section of the MCAT.

As philosophy student, you'll be reading complex texts with challenging vocabulary so you'll soon come to think the MCAT verbal is a joke. If you do OK and score 11 on the other two sections, you'll have a whopping MCAT of 37!

Remember: 15 in verbal and a good writing score hasn't kept anyone out of med school. Lame bench research has.

so true

 

[Algophiliac]

I don't think you need to feel guilty about it. 🙂 If I were you, I would double major in biology and philosophy. A lot of people will probably tell you not to double major because it's "harder", but I really don't think it is. You have to take 120 credit hours to graduate anyway. You can choose to have one major and take a bunch of random other classes, or you can choose to have two majors and take only a few random other classes. I think both are good options, but it depends on your personality. If you want to take courses in a lot of different subject areas and get exposure to a lot of different material, do the first option. If you are the type of person who would prefer to specialize in one or two very interesting things and doesn't like having random disjointed classes, do the second option. A good way to determine which person you are is to ask yourself, "If I were to major in biology, what would my electives look like?" From what you've said, it seems like you would probably take a lot of philosophy classes anyway. So do the major!

Although, I would just major in philosophy (without the bio) and then say f*ck all if I didn't get into med school and go live on the streets. But most people need more structure in life than that. 😉

You almost have me convinced, except that I would still end up taking more classes than would otherwise be necessary to graduate (and for no practical reason), according to my calculations. But I can only see this improving my GPA...or at least my non-science GPA, which might not be a great thing after all. Perhaps taking more science courses in order to raise my science GPA would be a better idea? Especially with the way my pre-reqs are going now, I just don't know if having a non-science GPA that is much higher than my science GPA will reflect positively on me in terms of medical school admissions.

The problem is that if I choose not to go through with medical school, I will most likely try to obtain a PhD in neurobiology or microbiology, or in something else in that vein. And assuming that doesn't work out, I've actually been toying with the idea of pursuing clinical psychology as a profession...hopefully to eventually just do clinical research. But obviously doing a psychology major would prepare me much better for that particular profession than doing a philosophy major. Maybe I could do a biology and psychology double major, with a minor in either English or philosophy?

Or does that look too cookie-cutter pre-med? 🙁